I am moving forward with my feature and I am looking to resolve a AUDIO route.

EQUIPMENT

XL1S
Sennheiser Directional Shotgun (In process of purchasing)
MA-100 (In process of purchasing)
Sony Mini-Disk Recorder
Boom

Because of the dialogue, my question is, what route would you recommend recording audio?

Combo One:
Onboard Audio of the XL1S
MA-100
Shotgun
Boom

Combo Two:
Sony Mini-Disk
Shotgun
Boom

I am looking for the best quality recording. As adjusting the XL1S on the fly for sound, while maintaining the image, introduces too many human tasking problems.

Please help, if you have had experience with this, or advice.

Much Appreciated!

Derrick

At some point, the complexity of a professional production requires a seperate soundman. As you said, overtasking of one camera operator becomes the critical issue. Your two configurations really lend themselves to one soundman/cameraman for option one and a seperate soundman/cameraman for option two. If you were to throw in a mixer, like a Samson mixpad or a Mackie mixer, you'd be more flexible for either config. The mixer really is a good complement, providing phantom power, limited equalization capability, and of course mixing capability beyond which recorder method you choose. It's really impossible to record quality audio and video with a single person since both need to be monitored and adjusted on the fly.

Yes, indeed.

I do plan on using a sound person for recording. The mixer was something I did not think about and a good bit. I will be looking into that more thoroughly.

I am thinking about a sound person with their own equipment.

I won't have to guess what is needed.

Thanks for the information!

Here's a scenario. I'm shooting a project and I am not audio swavy at all. I have a XL-1, I have a sennheiser me66 shotgun mic, and I want to figure out how it all works. I know I need an XLR adapter. Can someone tell me the best route to go in my situation and where is the best place to buy an XLR adapt. Any info is much appreciated. Thanks.

Jo

Jo,

You need the K6 power module and an adapter like the Cannon MA100, which gives you two channels of bal audio inputs and a sholder pad or the newer MA200, with 4 channels of XLR inputs. You can also use adapters from Sound Devices and Beachteck.
For the differences, see our thread in this section, listed as: "MA100 noise". al.

Studio One also offers an XLR adapter. Some folks prefer it to the Beachtek model.

I use a Sound Devices mic pre-amp with phantom power http://www.sounddevices.com/index.html Zotz carries the Sound Devices products along with the Studio 1 products http://www.zotzdigital.com/ They all offer similar products, just depends on what you need to do and what your budget is.

Jeff

Jo,
I don't know what your budget is, but if you want one of the best solutions, I have a new Sound Devices Mix Pre for sale if you are interested. This unit provides phantom power for mics and can be used both off-camera by a seperate audio person, and on camera. See "www.sounddevices.com" for details on this and other adapters they have. The MixPre is a full featured field preamp/mixer combo with 2 mic/line inputs and outputs w/add outs for tape & headphone monitoring.
This is new-in-the-box unit for $750.00. al.

Does anybody know what the voltage of the power that is supplied to the 'onboard' manufacturer's XL1S microphone.

I don't have a meter and I would like to know my options for customizing my system.

Thanks in advance...

Cheers!

Derrick

Dont bank on this but I think it is 5v. Can anyone else conform this?

The power supplied to the XL1 stock microphone is 5 volts DC.

That is exactly what I was looking for...

Thanks, VideoHead!

Thanks, Don!



Derrick

Has anyone ever run across an in-line signal attenuator with a female XLR on one end and a male XLR on the other? Just wonder if I should keep trying to find one...if such a thing exists. No luck yet. Thanks.

They exist. The units I've see are from Shure; e.g., from their web site:

* A15AS Switchable microphone attenuator prevents preamplifier overload when strong signals are applied.
* Provides 15, 20, 0r 25 dB of microphone attenuation
* Pass phantom power
* Requires use of balanced signals; XLR female in and XLR male out
* U.S. User Net Price $45.62

* A15LA Line adapter provides 50 dB attenuation, allowing a balanced line-level source to be connected to a balanced microphone input.
* Slender, in-line XLR (F) to XLR (M) configuration
* Requires use of balanced signals
* U.S. User Net Price $41.37

There are other brands and prices. Check any pro audio shop.

Thanks!


(you da man!)

While XLR (f) to XLR (m) attenuator adapters are avail, most are on the bulky side, being 1.5 to 2x the size of an XLR and stick out, putting strain on the connector its plugged into; adapaters like the Sure, are best used "in-line" in the middle of a mic cable run (between a mic's 6-ft cord and the "long cord run to the mixer/camera, if under 25-ft, ohterwise swap out long cord with the short cord to the mixer end.
Another solution, is to use an attenuated cord, that has the connectors you want at each end, with the 10-db to 30-db attenuation added inside the cable; (most use resistor pads connected at one end of the cable). The adavantage is no bulky connector hanging out the side of your rig, and less strain on the connectors. The disadvantage is you have to have a different cord for different amounts of attenuation. Cables are available for most field mixers i.e. Sound Device has several. Check with your local pro-adudio suppler or one of the on-line sponsors of this board. Al.

I found the perfect thing. An XLR volume control made by Rapco International. A barrel about 4 inches long - XLRM on one end, XLRF on the other. It has a knob in the middle to adjust the level.
$20. :)

Great!

Glad you found sosmething that works for you. Just becareful about stressing connectors with the unit. It's best to use it "inline" between two cable connectors. Good luck Al.

I'm doing occasional press conferences and live webcasting using my XL1S. I have a press conference coming up next week where there will likely be a house breakout box for XLRs. My question is whether it would be worth renting a Beachtek for this (for some reason most places in Vancouver don't want to rent out just the MA100/200 without the entire camera kit). It was recommended to me to find a place that would just make or sell an XLR to stereo miniplug cable adaptor and input that into the mic input.

Note, the webcasting will be mono only so I don't need stereo.

I found this online which looks like it may do the trick (though I want a local supplier because of cross border shipping complication possibilities):
http://www.microphonemadness.com/mmdualxlrfem.html

Comments?

Here's the Beachtek that's on their site. It costs a pretty penny to buy but to rent it's nothing really ($15/day)

http://www.beachtek.com/dxa4c.html

Yesterday I catured the selectmans meeting ..wat a gig....
Thing is ...we ran a xlr lead from the makie desk where all the mics were going to... from there to the back of my xlr adapter on my xl1s....Canon.....I flicked all the switches...and ran through all the different menue settings on the cam...audio 1 in etc and nothing.......dose the adapter need power or somthing ....is there
a battery cuningly hidden..or am I just stoopid...please help

Which XLR adapter? The Canon adapters (MA-100 and MA-200) draw power from the XL1s, the submini phone jack on the short cord from the MA must be plugged into the corresponding jack by the Audio1 jacks.

Hey thanks....yeh ..my adapter has 2x xlr inputs with shoulder rest....2x left and right input...which I guess go to back of cam audio1.......and a small ..looks like a mono...is this power ....I pluged it into the very small imput...between the left and right audio in right ..!...still no joy..

Should work.
What are your switch settings?
What are your menu settings?

I have been recording from a lav mike to my Canon XL1 using an xlr adapter that allows me to send audio to both channels, via an MA-100. I'm not really sure why, (I knew someone who did this on a shoot in Boston some years ago) but the results seem fine, even though my microphone is not stereo. In Final Cut Pro 3, I thus get audio to both channels. I'm just looking for feedback on this approach. I've heard that an audio signal can be comprimised(split?) with my method, but it seems strong to me...

If it works for you , and it sounds OK if you do a mono recording, be happy in your work. The "Y" adapter is just paralleling the inputs so the mic sees a 300 ohm input impedance rather than the 600 ohms of one of the channels by itself. For good low impedance mics this is not a problem.

Don is right, if it works for you then it is OK. Most people usually just copy one track to both in post.

I've likewise used a y-connector, just when nothing else is available, so I hooked it up to both channels rather than letting it dangle. No problems that I could hear.

Eddie

I use an XLR Y splitter all the time, every time when using external mics. As stated in the other posts, all it's doing is splitting that audio to both channels. It gives more fullness to the sound. I don't know why everyone doesn't do it. Why do it in post when you can get it all on location?

I tend to agree. Fuller sound. However, after reading some of these posts, somehow it seems that taking audio from a mike to one camera channel might be laying a stronger signal to that one channel, before it is split. Then, if you choose to copy one track to another in post, will the result have been copying a stronger signal to the other track? Or does it even matter? Audio is not my strongest suit so I'd love feedback on this...

Signal levels will ultimately depend on the gain setting and the output impedance of the mic being used, and the mic's output level ratings.

A very low impedance high quality mic (say, around 150 ohms) is not likely to care much one way or another if you parallel the 600 ohm input, but a 600 ohm mic will see increased signal loss when its load is paralleled, and may be more prone to clipping/distortion at high sound levels.

For best mic performance it is usually best to mix/pan the sound in post.

I connected my XlR microphone on my ma100 of the XL1S but that's not work !
Should that function automatically?

or do I have a setup has to make ?


thank
daniel

If your microphone requires a battery make sure it is fresh. If you microphone requires phantom power, you'll need an adapter. The MA 100/200 do not supply phantom power. Make sure the cables from the MA-100 are plugged in, including the small power supply cable. Follow the instructions in the manual for setting the menus in the viewfinder and the switches on the side of the camera (behind the white door). If you continue to have problems post back and include the make and model of microphone.

model :
AKG c417 pp...condenser microphone


Do i need phantom power ?

Yes, the pp in the model designation means Phantom Power. Search phantom power in this forum and you'll find many suggestions on devices which meet your needs.

I just purchased an MA-100 XLR - plugged an unidirectional Dynamic microphone with 15 foot of microphone cable XLR to the left port in the MA-100 - when the mic was turned on, I could barely get 35 on the scale in manual when the voice was talking in a normal volume. Upon playback on TV, I had to turn up the TV volume all the way to just barely hear the conversation - plus turning up the TV created a hiss / hum in the background. I used a small clip on amplified MIC that is powered by watch batteries on the front small jacks (audio 2) and it was recording levels just fine. Why isn't the XLR recording as well??

I just figured it out....make sure (in camera mode) you go to menu, then to VCR set up and then to Audio 1 IN (make sure it is in MIC) and then it should work fine....I'm getting a scale on one or the other side....to get both, you will need an XLR splitter.

Im having the same problem, although this has been brought up a number of times before on this board- iv'e still not found an acceptable answer.... I've just purchased a Rode - NTG-2 Directional Condenser Mic for My Canon xl-1. I have a ma-100 adapter, and Beachtek dxa-4c to go between. I have new xlr cables and everything was set on the camcorder correctly. But i am getting little, if not no sound. when switching to manual and cranking up the record level it picks up a few bars on the audio moniter. but still is way too low to record anything atall.

I have tried the same equipment with my friends dynamic microphone, some old sanyo mic, and the audio is fine. I have tried putting new batterys in the NTG-2, standing different distances from the camcorder, and trying a combination of the settings on the xl1.

any other suggestions would be apppreciated... I still don't quite understand the theory on DB and the combatibility of mics and camcorders. but i had been recommend the rode ntg2 specifically for the Canon xl1.

thanks for any replies........
Peter

What are you using the Beachtek for? It is not needed with the MA-100 and XL1.

The NTG-2 should work fine with the MA-100 connected to the XL1. Be sure to connect the MA-100 properly and set the proper input level from the menu.

i had the ma-100 that was broken, one of the phono sockets was faulty. so i purchased a beachtek dxa 4-c . then my freind kindly fixed the ma-100. so i have two audio adapters to chose from.

i know the canon xl1 audio settings well enough, and am sure its set correctly. im going to run some test, maybe record some more speech and musical instruments.

Iv'e been reading about this inpudance problem but am sure the rode ntg-2 is compatible with xl-1. anyone else had this issue ?

thanks again - pete

If the Rode NTG-2 is up to spec, there should not be a significant impedance issue when used with a working MA-100. The Rode is rated at 350 ohms and the MA-100 input is 600 ohms, loss would be minimal compared to theri suggested 1000 ohm input impedance.

The most likely issues for very low or no audio level.

Input level not set to MIC (or MIC ATT) at the MA-100 menu (the XL1 factory default setting is line level)

MA-100 not powered (audio cables AND the power cable both must be connected to the camcorder before the MA-100 is powered by the camcorder.).

Audio 1 input not selected by the switch behind the audion contols door.

MA-100 not connected to the correct audio inoput (usually audio 1 for 2-channel recording).

But per your earlier posts it sounds like you have alrteady tested the MA-100 and found that it works with other mics. In that case, it sounds like the Rode may have a problem, possibly a bad battery or poor connection. Have you tried the Rode in a different system or PA system to verify its output?