Camera Stabilizer

OK I have been looking for a great steadicam/glidecam. As always I check out in this community to see what some good ideas would be. I have not seen much talk about the Marzetec (http://www.marztech.com/) Anybody have any experience with this thing. I have read the reviews and even ordered the demo take which I should be getting soon. I just want to here how this thing really compares to the Glidecam and Stedican aside from the price.

Should I hold out until I am ready to pay for the Glidecam or Steadicam (with full vest and monitor etc.) set up?

Thanks for the link.

I think it would be great for a fishing video.

Marcus

I use a glidecam v-8, and knowing what it does and how it does it, I don't see how this bungee-cam is really anything more than a support...not really a stabilizer in the same sense as a steadi or glide-cam. If you read through the testimonials (surprisingly honest -I might add) you'll see that the main selling point is the anti-fatigue nature of this funny looking machine. But if you are trying to get that steadicam smooth motion shot...I think you should look more in the direction of the original.

Now, the traditional steadicam type devices are not to be taken lightly. They do take a lot of practice to master, and wearing one for a few minutes will have you huffing and puffing and sweating like it's football hell week. The glidecam instruction manual issues several warnings to those with back injuries to find another hobby. When I first got mine I did a little 4 minute short...sort of a "run lola run" about a girl trying to find a cup of coffee. We shot for about an hour. I spent the next 4 days needing assistance getting off of the sofa.

Do the glidecam/steadycam devices work? Amazingly well. Right out of the box I was floored with how smooth the shots were. With a little practice, you can pull off stuff that's impossible with out a crew of 10. Occasionally, glidecam offers some pretty good packages so check their site often.

Barry

Marcus...

It's hard to beat the stabilization system provided by Steadicam and Glidecam. The gimbal mount is the key, minimizing or eliminating unwanted pitch, yaw and roll.

I work with a Glidecam on occasion, with vest and support arm. With the XL1 fully balanced out I believe the weight comes to about 30 pounds. The last time I shot with it I was wearing it for nearly an hour with almost no breaks.

I'm not a big person at 5'7" and 150 pounds. So I had to learn how to stand and balance myself. Plus it takes some practice to know what muscles to use and which ones to relax. The first instinct is to tense up everything in response to the eccentric weight but that only makes matters worse. Relaxing everything except for the essential muscles really helps make things much easier and tolerable.

Of course by the end of the day I'm walking with a backward lean like some character out of Mad Magazine!

What the other folks said.

The Marzpak is really a weight distribution system for handheld work. The better your handheld operating, the smoother the shot. With a good camera stabilizer, you can run in place as hard as you like and the camera will float impervious to your efforts.

Thanks for the replies

I guess there is no easy way around it. I was thinking I could get out of the heavy bulky Glidecam/Steadicam gear. We are planning a shoot in Kenya mid August and I really do not think I want to have to carry that thing around for two weeks. And price is always an issue but as we all know you get what you pay for. On the other hand this will be my biggest production and the time to leave is comming rapidly.

These replies really help
thaks again
Marcus

Marcus:

To reiterate a recent point made in another thread: once you are comfortable with a decent vest/arm stabilization system, it becomes a less fatiguing way to carry the camera than having it on your shoulder, due to the weight distribution. I would not characterize the Marzpak as being less bulky than a Steadicam type stabilizer (less parts perhaps).

Good luck with your shoot!

MarzPak inventor Jacques Mersereau is a community member here; I'm sure he'll weigh in with his viewpoint.

Uh oh, now I'm in trouble.

Chris, you at the LA DV show?

Thanks all

Just to add, has anyone heard of this stablelizer http://www.magiqcam.com/.

The prices sure beat the Glidecam/Steadicam.

Charles, you seem to always have the scoop, or professinal opinon. Whats your take on this one. I do not want to buy something that is no good. I would rather wait until I am ready to put the money into the more expensive models if it is worth.

I wonder if the inventor of the MarzPak would have anything to add. It would seem things are covered well. From what I am reading the Glidcam/Steadicam and the MarzPak are kind of used for two different things.

Charles -- I'll be at the Pro-Tape booth for the L.A. DV Show on Tuesday, July 30 from 1:00 p.m. to 6:30 p.m and Wednesday, July 31 from 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. It would be great to see you again as usual! See you there.

Marcus -- yes, the MarzPak is a completely different application. It does not pretend to be a Stedicam. Will try to get Jacques in here to post about it but I'm out of town with limited access.

Marcus, I took a look at the Magiqcam site. It's sort of dazzling just how many variations on the Steadicam are out there these days. This one appears to have been reverse engineered from various of the Tiffen systems including the SK, Provid and Mini, with some design elements of the Ultra/Master series in the vest design. From the pictures, it seems sound but it would be impossible to tell how well it works from that. It's all about how smooth the gimbal and the arm work. It's certainly cheap enough, almost amazingly so. Of course, you would have to add a monitor so you should assume $300 for that. It's unclear to me why so many companies don't seem to offer a monitor as an option. Varizoom and Nebtek both offer decent LCD's.

If by any chance they are at the LA DV show I will check the unit out for you tomorrow.

Thanks again Charles & Chris

You would think the magiqcam group would be at the LA DV show. They are located in Paradise CA. That would be cool to get some expert advice on that unit. I want to save some money if I can but not at the cost of quality.

thanks again

Hello. This demo was shot with a rig by Hollywood Lite. Its engineers are from Steadicam (Cinema Products) and that's why it looks so close to the Mini Steadicam for these DV systems. This GTX system was right at $3500.00 with everything, including low mode. They have recently introduced a dual stage arm for more vertical travel. Hollywood's service is NOT the best but for the money the rig works well. Take a look for yourself. Best viewed with a high speed connection.

Steadicam Demo

(high speed)
http://198.65.158.133/steadicam/STEADICAM300K.asx

(dial up)
http://198.65.158.133/steadicam/STEADICAM56K.asx

Marcus:

No Magiqcam at the DV show. Did see the Hollywood Lite, but I was already familiar with their products.

Good luck,

Chas

Hello all, longtime lurker, first time poster.

Well, I just went ahead and ordered the magiqcam. He had one up on ebay for $100 off, plus a free carrying case. Once it arrives I'll play around with it a bit and post my thoughts. If Chris is interested I'd love to write a review...

Greetings

Daniel I saw that deal on Ebay. I was interested myself. I would love to hear how it works for you. It is half the price of the big names so it was kind of scary. I talked to some of there employees and they say they have a two week back up because they build each unit by hand. That threw me out because I wanted a unit for a trip I leave on Aug the 12th.

anyway

Charles thanks for checking at the DV show. I wish I could have gone. I am all the way on the other side of the US. I am going to stop being cheap and start flying to some of these things just for the fun of it.

Thanks for all the replies everybody.
Marcus

Yeah, it concerned me too, since I was scammed on the XL1s on Ebay- ended up buying the camera twice. That time was my fault for blind faith- the fact that the guy wanted a cashier's check should have been a red flag. Anyways, this guy accepts credit card, so I have that level of protection in case something goes wrong- but I'm not worried, he really looks legit. The other guy was just like that post on who not to buy from on Ebay- chalk it up to a very expensive lesson.

I believe this company is lagit. I have had some communications with the group. I am curious in the performance of the unit.

Keep us (me) posted

You are in fact correct with watching for scams. There are a lot of good scam artist out there.

Marcus

Well, it arrived today! I unpacked it and started playing around with it a bit. It'll take time to get the hang of, but I could tell right off the bat it will make a big difference. I need to learn the control, but already it is at least floaty instead of jerky when I move. As I practice more and more, there is less and less float. I might use it a bit at a wedding this weekend, so we'll have to see. Already I can tell it is a well built product. It reminds me of Bob Jones's Skycrane- a handbuilt product built by someone who really knows how to do it and has a passion for it. And you can't beat the price!

Daniel, after you've had it for awhile and once you get used to it, I'll take you up on that review you offered. Would love to put some words on the website about this thing. Let us know what you think, and thanks for the update.

Daniel,

I've been thinking about the Magicam. Would you recommend it? What are its pros and cons?

Thanks,

Walter

Unfortunately, I only got to use it for one wedding before the end of summer, and now am back to school. I'm a CS major at Harvey Mudd, which takes pretty much my every waking moment, so I haven't had a chance to work with it since.

In the brief use I've had, it has been quite positive. I don't have much of a frame of reference, but it was far smoother than anything I could obtain handheld. Looking at the demos for the Glidecam, it seems to achieve similar smoothness once moving, but it was very rough changing directions - which is a operator issue, as within the first day the later footage was far smoother.

So functionally, I say it is an amazing value. As for build, it is remarkable given it is hand-built, but it has a couple odd points. Adjusting the harness, I could never seem to get it tight enough, even pulling out all the slack. Now, I'd like to think that this means I am just really thin, but I know better. I am of medium build, ~170 lbs, 5'10". Anyways, I fiddled around with it awhile and finally got it to where it worked, but it seemed like a hassle. Perhaps the other vests are similar, I don't know.

The only big problem I have had is a noisy spring in the arm, which looks like it needs some lubrication. It isn't loud, and only occurs when I move it really fast. The documentation mentions lubricating parts, so I think that it would solve that.

So yeah, I'd say it is an excellent value for the money. I am sure a true steadicam is superior, but not nearly by the same factor in performance as it is in price.

Pros: Works very well, very affordable
Cons: Vest fit a little odd at first, springs can make a bit of noise if not lubricated

The key to these stabilization systems is the gimbal and the delicate balance of the camera on the sled.

The other stuff, like the support arm (human or mechanical) simply helps support the gimbal and sled.

The concept is amazingly simple. What costs money is the low volume of manufacture and the need for precision-machined parts.

I've had similar problems when initiating movements, as well as when I'm rounding corners. The sled wants to either weathervane in the wind or roll based on whatever g-forces are generated by any movements.

The trick to prevent this from happening is having the rig delicately balanced. It's less likely to roll when swinging the rig around. But it also makes it less apt to stay exactly upright when at a standstill. Thus the need to have just enough counterweight to keep it vertical.

Another factor is the sled's mass. The heavier it is the more resistant it is to bouncing, adverse roll, yaw and pitch. Unfortunately it's also harder on the back or arms.

Sure makes for a heck of a workout!

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions.

Dean's points are right on the money. The only thing I would want to elaborate on is that the arm does more than just support the weight--it is integral to isolating the camera assembly from the operator's up-and-down movements (and partially for side to side, front to back etc.) There are some inexpensive arms out there that will support the weight, but transmit enough motion that the rig tends to bounce up and down like a car with bad shocks; a good arm will damp this all out.

The best advice I can give regarding changing directions is to echo what you have already suspected, Daniel: practice practice practice! Mastering the subtleties of keeping a dead-on horizon takes months if not years for most operators; keeping the rig from swinging out when coming to a fast stop or reversing direction is a tough one. The main thing to understand is that it's all about a light touch; keeping a death-grip on the post will ensure "floatiness". Stopping or reversing direction requires one to clamp down or squeeze the fingers on the post for just the right amount of time (fraction of a second), absorbing the inertial forces, then releasing back to a feather-light touch before you over-influence the rig.

The noise in the arm may have numerous possible causes, everything from a design flaw to a loose component to lack of lubrication as you indicated. Best to check with the manufacturer.

Have fun with the rig!

Hi All,

well, I finally stumbled upon this thread and should chime in
with what I think . . . you asked for it, though maybe not this much ;)

First, The MARzPAK™ (http://www.marztech.com) is not a true
stabilizer in the sense of a REAL steadicam or glidecam system.
In other words, it is not for super silky smooth walking/running shots.
If that is what you need, buy the real deal.

What The MARzPAK offers is handheld support for any camera
from a tiny miniDV (2 lbs) all the way up to a DSR-500 and above (25lbs),
and here's why you need a MARzPAK in your tool set.

Because cameras like the VX2K and XL1 do not weigh very much,
they are prone to shake and vibrate in your hands. Pick up a car battery
and you'll notice that it WON'T shake, because of its mass.

The idea behind the MARzPAK is for the overhead pipe
and the suspension cord
(that runs through the pipe) to float the camera for you,
that makes it much easier to hold still.
The MARzPAK holds not only the camera's weight
(2-25 Lbs.), BUT as you pull the camera down, stretch the cord and lean on your camera, the suspension cord will help float your arms' mass too.
So, your arms act as an additional stabilizing weight while the
pak holds everything for you.

The other issue with with small cameras is their shooting ergonomics.
A super light camera usually produces shaky footage, and
let's face facts, the XL1 is brutal to shoot with, because it is neither
a shoulder cam NOR super light.

Some say, "Okay, I'll buy a shoulder brace."
There are problems IMO with braces.
1) The shoulder brace adds more weight that YOU have to support on ONE shoulder. You can never let go and the weight is NOT evenly distributed.
2) You've trapped yourself into that one camera position . . . ugh.
3) One of your hands is holding the brace's grip, so plan on buying a remote controller or losing one hand's functionality (what's it going to be focus or zoom?).

MARzTech has also sold a lot of paks to large camera people
who are looking to relieve their sore back, shoulders and neck, and others
who can feel the damage being inflicted and would like to avoid these health issues before it is too late.
The MARzPAK does really well for these people and also people
who have to shoot all day long, be ready in an instant, or who are documenting treks and wildlife that they have to hike to reach.

The MARzPAK weighs under 6 lbs. All its and the camera's weight is evenly distributed to the hips and a little to the shoulder straps,
all of which are nice thick/soft closed cell foam.
You can position the camera from as high as your arms can reach in the sky, and still go all the way to the floor, while being supported all the time.

Some people have accused us of using a tripod in making our demo video. Not one shot in there was anything but MARzPAK footage and CG created titles and animations. NO post production shot stabilizer software was used,
and our best footage is not even on that early production.

Since the time that demo was shot, MARzTech has made another big improvement.
We have added an additional stabilizer weight as an option. Basically a 2.5 or 5 Lbs. barbell that threads into the tripod hole and hangs about 6" under the camera by threaded rod.
This additional weight really adds to stability. This principle is how
the glidecam 2000 and steadytracker work, except with those units the camera op uses his arm(s) to support all that extra weight, making a shot several minutes long nearly impossible. In addition, the "sled" and monitor usually hang 24-30" underneath the camera.
That means you can't lower the camera below 24-30" above the floor.
I use a 2.5 lbs. stabilizer weight and mount a battery and wireless on top of that, so their weight is now helping to stabilize too (& usually have to carry them along anyway ;).

Okay, too much info, but in summary,

The MARzPAK is super well made and costs 1/5 the EZ Rig & 1/3rd the Tortle rig (our competition) and is much more flexible. Made in USA.

You can get great tripod like footage while retaining handheld mobility.

There is almost nothing to break, few moving parts and a
30 sec set up . . . a Russian tank.

By changing suspension cords (60 sec.), you can go from a 2 lbs. camera to a 25 lbs. camera.

Instead of suffering and praying the gig will end soon, you stay comfortable for as long as it takes and your ending footage is as good as the beginning footage.

I am now a whimp and won't shoot handheld without a MARzPAK if I have a choice.