Do a search for incidental reproduction and you'll find what you're looking for. Paul Tauger has posted on it several times.

I´ve doing some search on a doubt I have but I can´t find a straight answer...

So, I have a script where a character whistles a known song.

Strictly Legally speaking...
Can I do this without having to pay or get permissions?

Unfortunately, if he whistles it you have to pay for use of the song.

Fortunately, this is a little easier than paying for the performance of that song by the orinigal act...

Every once in a while you'll see a movie where a character sings a couple lines of a tune and invariably you will see that listed in teh credits:

Roxanne
Written by Sting
Performed by Eddie Murphy

And they are paying for those couple lines....

Of course, if you are just showing it at home you have no problem. But if you try to sell it or submit it to a contest or festival you will likely get booted if you don't have it all in order.

I don't know the exact process for licensing it... but you should check out www.ascap.com or www.bmi.com. They handle licensing... basically every song you have every heard publicly (I am not exagerating) is in the database of one of those organizations. They are tough too... ASCAP tried to sue the Girl Scouts one time saying that they needed to pay royalties for the songs scouts were singing around the campfire (not exagerating there either).

It could be that they only handle the compulsory licensing (radion play, live performance) and other groups handle film... someone else please chime in if they know.

Good luck.

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Gribble :.... They are tough too... ASCAP tried to sue the Girl Scouts one time saying that they needed to pay royalties for the songs scouts were singing around the campfire (not exagerating there either).
Good luck. -->>>

I´ve laughed for about two minutes on this one...
Man, I´m a musician... I know how hard it is.. and I don´t want somebody making money out of my music and not getting my share... but this guys sometimes are just ridiculous.

Anyway... I am not paying for a 20 sec whistling... I either change the song to something original... or make the guy whistle it almost like it and have a line like:
"Are you whistling Roxane by Police?"
"Hmm... no you got that wrong... this is an ancient Celtic Song my grandma song to me"....

(Or I could just make the guy whistle it.... and let myself get sued... mmmm.... I could use a little publicity here... mmmm)
Did I just wrote my thoughts.. Doh!!

I wouldn't go near it Federico. Of course, if you're in Spain, I don't know what the laws are there. In the US, it's a no no. Maybe a fair use, but who wants to risk it when you can never tell what a fair use is for sure until the issue's gone to court? I don't even think the automatic licensing system by Harry Fox agency would cover this. Sorry.

That girl scouts case is ludicrous though. Big difference.

Oh, I guess I should put a smiley when I´m joking... I was trying to be a bit humorous... but I think I´m not... well I´ll just keep trying..

Anyway, I´m not doing it... Of course I am not going to get me in trouble for 20 secs of whistling... I don´t know the laws around here neither, but I´m a musician.. I´m pretty sure I can come up with some nice whistling...

Allthough, It will be nice to use it.
The whistling of that particular song has a meaning in the whole character personality, and the lyrics (for whoever knows the song) actually have a lot to do with the story...

I guess one should not get inspiration with copyrighted material...

Let´s best not say the name of the song loud... maybe ASCAP or SGAE (those are the Spanish Inquisition of Copyrights) will come after me for inspiring my charachter in a copyrighted song.

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Gribble :.... They are tough too... ASCAP tried to sue the Girl Scouts one time saying that they needed to pay royalties for the songs scouts were singing around the campfire (not exagerating there either).
Good luck. -->>>

Yes... it does seem crazy, but it makes a bit more sense than the surface suggests...

If you own a copyright, you have to enforce it, or you actually lose the right to. Someone down the road can say "Well the girl scouts sang the songs, and they never asked for a royalty... how can they ask it of me?" and get off. It was a huge PR nightmare for them though, and I believe they dropped it.

For security, I like to pay the $30 and get my videos registered with the Copyright Office. My only question regards what format to send the videos in on. This page http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ45.pdf (bottom left of page 4) lists the required formats in order of preference. Unfortunately, neither DVD or miniDV are listed as accepted. Therefore, the only format I can use/afford is VHS. Does anyone have information on a more updated list that includes miniDV or DVD? Are DVDs classified the same as videodisks (which technically refers to the old laserdisks)?
I'm just hoping to submit a higher quality copy than a VHS dub. Any help would be appreciated.

To the best of my knowledge the format requirements have not changed from what is published on the site you reference. Quality is not really an issue. I would be more concerned with the archival qualities of the format, in other words how long the tape will last. A pro grade of VHS tape should last 20 to 25 years at a minimum if stored properly.

Excellent, that was the answer I was looking for.

What's the farthest I can take someone else's song? What I mean is... I know if I keep my video private I can do anything I want, but where is the line drawn as far as using someone's copyrighted material? I am shooting a movie (for fun) with my friends and I am going to put in some music that i got from a CD. What can I NOT do with it? Can I use it in a portfolio? Can I send it to people to get my name out as long as I am not going for money? What's the deal?

Do a search under Paul Tauger here on the forum. Long threads about copyright issues are hashed and re-hashed.

<<<-- Originally posted by Scott T Anderson : What's the farthest I can take someone else's song? What I mean is... I know if I keep my video private I can do anything I want, but where is the line drawn as far as using someone's copyrighted material? I am shooting a movie (for fun) with my friends and I am going to put in some music that i got from a CD. What can I NOT do with it? Can I use it in a portfolio? Can I send it to people to get my name out as long as I am not going for money? What's the deal? -->>>

Here's the quick skinny.

NO.

:)

Bascially, you cannot do anything with it, except listen to it. When you buy music, that is all you are getting the rights to do with it. That is where the line is drawn.

The truth is of course, that you can really do whatever you want. If you are just watching it yourself or with friends, no-one is really going to know or care. That might be as far as I would go. I would not put it up on the web and I would NEVER use music I didn't have the rights to in my portfolio. I cannot think of anything less professional, except stealing video as well.

There are lots of sources of cheap, or free music out there. If you really need some, check with local bands as well.

Yeah, what Dylan said.

;)

DETROIT -- A federal judge in Detroit has ruled that Eminem can proceed with copyright infringement claims against Apple Computer and other companies.

An ad for Apple's i-Pod music player and i-Tunes music service featured a boy singing the rapper's song "Lose Yourself." The commercial had been running last year on MTV, and on Apple's Web site.

The judge's ruling said Eminem's case can proceed against several companies, including MTV parent Viacom, and an advertising agency.


Apple had used the ad despite the fact that the company had failed to get Eminem's permission for the campaign. A lawyer for the defendants said no viewer would think Eminem is endorsing the i-Tunes service.

The lawyer's comment is the best. Very nice attempt to change the issue into something other than the copyright infringement it so obviously is.

How is this any different from any of us using copyrighted material in our video productions? Apple and Viacom can afford better lawyers, and therefore can ignore the law, that's how! To run the commercial for well over a year too, that is just arrogance.
I'm an Apple guy and all, but I hope Eminem comes out on top here. Regardless of how I feel about his music, I think he is in the right.
Michael

Why can they go after MTV? MTV didn't make the ad, they just
sold a timeslot to someone else. Are they liable for what they
put in that timeslot?

Well, in US, they can go after everybody the product passes thru. It is a well-designed system by wealthy lawyers, judges, and politicians to stifle innovation and free market. :-)

G'day,

I'm considering using an old radio recording (mp3) of "The Teddy Bears Picnic" in an upcomming film project. I've only used music by friends in the past and was wondering what the copyright issues were with old recordings of old songs.

Can anyone help?

What if I used a mechanical music box that played the tune?

Good question Shane. It's been covered quite a few times here. If you do a search in this forum using the terms music and copyright, you'll find a dozen threads with complete answers. To give you a quick rundown:
1) You need permission from whoever owns the rights to the original radio recodring in order to use it legaly.
2) If it is from a music box, it may be old enough that the melody is part of the public domain and can be used free. You'll have to do a little searching though.

I think if you used a mechanical music box the threading in the box would still qualify as someone's 'recording'. So then you would have to check to see if those rights are still active.

I have been wondering something similar... suppost you have a subject in your film that is whistling or singing a few bars of a song? For example, if I were to show an individual in the film whistling/singing a few bars of "Wasting away again in Margeritaville" (sorry, but I saw Jimmy Buffet on Today and it's the only thing I can think of :)).

I've been wondering this... anybody know the answer? And the song would be not related to the movie in any way, just having a regular scene from a movie.

I have been wondering something similar... suppost you have a subject in your film that is whistling or singing a few bars of a song? For example, if I were to show an individual in the film whistling/singing a few bars of "Wasting away again in Margeritaville" (sorry, but I saw Jimmy Buffet on Today and it's the only thing I can think of :)).It would be copyright infringement, if done without a license.

Does the music (or sound) from the shower scene in Psycho (you know, "wheet wheet wheet wheet") have a copyright? I think it might be part of a longer piece of music so I'm assuming yes. I've heard it (or something similar) in commercials and other movies, how do they do it? If you want to use something similar, how different does it have to be (considering it's only a note or two played on a stringed instrument)?

Bottom line is that this music (or sound) would fit perfectly in a scene from a short I'm making, but I will not steal someone else's work. Thanks if you can answer this.

I think perhaps it falls under parody use. If you are not appropriating the music and saying it is yours, you are just commenting on the music (or rather, the larger film) satirically. Everyone knows that music is from "Psycho".

EDIT: to backtrack, I know people use the notes from Jaws as well but I've heard them slightly altered so that they are not quite the same but still distinctively Jaws.

There have been cases of melodies consisting of four notes being given copyright protection. It all depends on the context. I'd have to hear the sounds you're referring to to be sure though.

Thanks for the info. Like most copyright issues, its a tangled web. So I'll just go a different direction, but I do appreciate the thoughts.

Guys,

I've been playing around with making some videos using popular copyrighted songs. If I share these with people via internet or DVD I assume that violates the copyright of the song correct?

I'd like to post one here for suggestions on improvement but dont want to break any laws...

I've moved your thread to the correct business forum. The question
has been asked and answered here a lot of times as well.

As you guessed that is illegal. You need to acquire the song
rights and the performance rights and whatever is attached.

got it... Thanks

FYI gang, the "Understanding Copyright Law" DVD from VASST is shipping on Monday of next week, the title is heading to the warehouse now, pending any more Florida hurricanes shutting down freeways.

http://www.vasst.com/dvdproducts/caveats_copyright.htm

gets you to the DVD page. The DVInfo.net community COMM discount applies to this title.
It's a DVD and CD set, with the CD containing lots of location, model, and other releases, plus Quickstart guide to Fair Use and other legal goodies. DVD features Kenneth R. Wallentine, Esq. who teaches copyright and consults on copyright laws to institutions, musicians, videographers, etc. You can see a short stream on the VASST site.

The topic of Fair Use comes up quite frequently in this forum. Paul Tauger is very generous and patient with our many members, both new and old, in regard to this subject matter.

This is a very good basis (http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/index.html) for understanding Fair Use from Stanford University. Please read before entering into discussions of copyright and fair use.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

I have recently completed a music video which we now would like to submit to film festivals which have music video category, one of those being the Videomaker Magazine's annual contest. They require a copyright release form for anything that I cannot release personally. I can give my permission to the video but I guess I need to get the copyright release form from the singer.

1. Am I transfering all my rights to them by signing this release?
2. Do any of you guys already have a form for a situation just like this? ( I haven't found anything on Google that fits my situation )

Thank you for any help you can provide me.

I'd like to use a map in some of the promotional artwork... any ideas where I can find a map that is legal to use/won't have Rand McNalley (sp?) suing me for infringement?

David,

I don't know how quickly you need it... but the government publishes tons of maps that I believe are in the public domain... check this out to start:

http://www.usgs.gov/pubprod/maps.html

Good luck.

That's perfect, thank you!

Rafal,

I sent you an e-mail.
Regarding your first point: that depends on the contract. I wouldn't think so.

Best,
Dan.

Thanks Dan

This seems to be the week for copyright questions so I thought I'd add one more.

Are the words to a poem copyrighted? Not the printed version in a book but the words themselves? I'm guessing they are. Having a poem read for a video would require clearance and/or licensing, no?

Good luck.

Dennis

Definitions:

1: The pattern of formation of sentences or phrases in a language.

2: A systematic, orderly arrangement.

3: Such a pattern in a particular sentence or discourse.

Example- "Ishmael...me...call..." No problem.

"Call me Ishmael"...problem.

(The opening sentence from Moby Dick, by Herman Melville, for the sea dwelling mammal impaired.)

The words are not copyrighted in themselves...the particular order that they are arranged in to formulate and convey a thought or feeling are.

RB

Is it possible to substitute the poem with one from those in the public domain; like from Edgar A. Poe?

Having a poem read for a video would require clearance and/or licensing, no?
Absolutely, unless the poem has passed into the public domain, either because the author dedicated it or the copyright has expired.

Thanks all. As I thought.

I haven't picked the poem yet but a PD one is a great idea. Now it's merely a matter of searching the copyright database to find a good PD poem.

Thanks again.

Dennis

not the copyright database. The library. Pick a poem more than 100 yrs old!!

Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered weak and weary...

or maybe
I think that I will never see a poem as lovely as a tree. :)

I've edited a short concert of our church worship group performing five songs. What type of permisssion would we need to broadcast this on our local community access channel?

During my internet search on this subject I came across the following site:

http://www.ci.west-sacramento.ca.us/community/cable/rules.cfm

7.2 The City of West Sacramento understands that the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP) and Broadcast Music Inc. (BMI) are negotiating nationwide licensing arrangements with the National Cable Television Association (NCTA) for performances of their members' musical compositions on local originations by cable television systems. Due to the fact that Charter Communications is a member of the NCTA, and that ASCAP and BMI are not enforcing their members' rights with respect to such performances during the period of these negotiations, the following procedures will be undertaken until the city of West Sacramento informs users of any changes in the above situation.

7.3 All users may include music licensed by ASCAP or BMI in n their programs without previously making special arrangements with ASCAP or BMI.

7.4 Appropriate acknowledgement should be given in the credits to the musical compositions licensed by ASCAP or BMI which are included in the users' programs.

Our local access station has music from a local radio station playing behind the community bulletin board. If they have a license to play the music from the radio on their tv station, do they also have a right to play footage from a concert as long as credits are given to the publisher for each song?

I'm trying to do the right thing and any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

Who owns the copyright for the songs your group sang?

The copyrights are held by various publishers. I imagine someone will end up just calling the publishers, explaining what we want to do, and asking for permission.

Chris

I don't think performance rights are the same as synchronization rights. ASCAP/BMI deal with performance rights, and would be the body to collect from your TV station when the music plays. But you still need to have sync rights before you put the music on your edited video, and then you would provide a cue sheet to the station.

My understanding is that this case would not need a synchronization license. I'm not synching a professional artists cd to video of something else. The edited video is just a two camera shoot of the worship team performing the music.

Any other ideas?

Chris

Chris, this is a complicated question and I can't really give you a definitive answer. There are exceptions in the Copyright Act for church services, but I don't know whether they would apply to local access cable. Absent the exception, you'd need the same clearances as for any broadcast, at least as far as I know. Fair use considerations would, of course, apply, but I don't know whether any would be applicable.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Paul