I need a blank firing handgun that has muzzle flare for a movie I'm shooting. The gun I have makes only the sound -- no flash. Does anyone know where I could purchase a blank gun that will have a flash? I'm trying not to add them in post?

Thanks

No, I don't know. But I do believe that you need to be licensed to use firing props like this.

I've never heard of needing a license for a blank gun. However, I do plan on hiring someone to handle it -- just to make sure it's loaded correctly and that everything works properly.

It turns out that blank-firing guns are not as simple or safe as they may seem. For example, there are a variety of loads that can be used with them, depending on the effect needed. More flash/less sound, more sound/less flash, minimum distance to anything with a pulse, etc.

To keep from getting fined, jailed or shot by some over-anxious police officer I'd check on the matter with the municipality in which you plan to stage your shoot-em-up.

I agree. Notifying the police is a must. I'll find out any regulations in my area. In terms of safety, I have no intentions of actually firing them at anybody. Do you know where I could get more information regarding blanks? I'd like to learn as much as I can before using them. I've searched the web but haven't had much luck.

Google is your friend (http://www.google.com/search?q=blank+pistols&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8).

I'd swear that some (not terribly low budget) films I've seen simply put a flash on the screen for a couple frames.
I looks pretty crude if you really care, but I don't think the audience notices.
That can be done in the NLE or Photoshop.

Most firearms can shoot blanks. Just pick your weapon of choice, and either search for blanks, or have them made for you. As long as it is done safely, there should be no problems. Just remember- there are still red hot debris coming from the barrel, so do not fire towards anyone.

My students had the front of the gun slightly off camera, then brightened the shot for 3 frames and added a little yellow tint (it was a darkly-lit scene, btw). Looked like the muzzle flash lighting up the whole area. Looked good!

heath

One of the best resources for firearms, swords and other weapons from all periods is Weapons of Choice (http://weaponsofchoicetheatrical.com/index.htm). They're located in Napa California, but will ship anywhere in the US. We've used them for stage weapons for as long as I can remember and have always found them very helpful, reasonably priced and they have a phenomenal inventory. They do both rentals and sales.

Different firearms need different types of ammo.

A revolver and shotgun need blanks that contain wadding whereas an automatic needs to shoot "crimped" blanks which contains no wadding.

The obvious danger in both is that regardless of what you are using, there is always something that is "fired" when the trigger is pulled...wadding, un-burnt powder, etc.

When using an automatic, the barrel needs to be retrofitted with a "plug" which in effect acts as a bullet would. In other words, the plug allows the gasses to build up thus making the slide blowback, ejecting the spent cartridge and cycle forward, loading the next round.

In either case, minimum safe distance from the barrel is 25 feet and the weapon should NEVER be pointed at your actors, they should always be pointed just slightly off axis. Use camera angles to disguise this.

Take a look at this thread in DVINFO http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22752

Be safe, RB.

There have been a couple of actors killed by blanks.
They were under the impression that 'firing blanks' equals safe.
Basic firearm safety says that ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
and to be treated as such.

Who was it that was goofing around and held the magnum against his head and pulled the trigger? The results were like taping a cherry bomb to a melon. ;(

Firing a gun near to someone's head can burst ear drums
and/or pop an eyeball out of the socket.
If you hold an automatic pistol (like the Walther PPK) the wrong way the slide can
tear the top of your thumb off.

I don't think safety can be stressed enough when dealing with firearms.
And blanks with their inherent, "they can't hurt you" attitude can
be even more dangerous to the inexperienced.

Okay, enough soapboxing . . .

<<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Mersereau :

Firing a gun near to someone's head can burst ear drums
and/or pop an eyeball out of the socket.
If you hold an automatic pistol (like the Walther PPK) the wrong way the slide can
tear the top of your thumb off.

-->>>

...you can just edit these things out in post.
;)

"...you can just edit these things out in post"

Be sure you are using non-sag actors, or the Union will be all over you...

I think Chris was just trying to be funny. He got a good laugh out of me at least...

Obviously firearm safety is a serious matter however.

Deniz, consider hiring an independent armourer. If you are an indie project you might be able to get someone to do it very cheaply, and will likely bring their own blank gun. This will save you that expense, and will keep you a hell of a lot safer. I work with an armourer quite a bit here, and I get to hear the blank firing safety speech often enough that I'd just skip doing it myself and do it in post if I didn't have an armourer.

Deniz,

Something else to consider are your local gun laws. eventhough blank-firing guns (should) only fire blanks, the old adage holds true in the eyes of others: "if it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it must be a duck!"

Espeically in the NJ, NY areas where gun laws are very strict with regards to handguns. A possible recommendation might be to film your gun scene in PA where gun laws are more lax. If you are going to work in NJ, do a search on legal firearms via the NRA or google just to ensure the blank firearm is not a replica of a banned gun!

Then again as Dylan pointed out, just get an armourer and this is all their job to worry about!

Just my 2 cents,
~Mike

Technically, pellet guns are considered to be full blown firearms in NJ. The laws are stupid strict. A guy up the street from me got pulled over and had a pellet gun in his car (he was coming home from cmaping in PA), which was visible. The cop went nuts pulled him from the car, hands where I can see em, kinda thing. When things calmed down and the guy was in the backseat of the cop car, he said it was just a pellet rifle. The cop responded, that's what he'd figured, but it was procedure to treat any firearm-looking-object as such. That guy got in a trouble for having the gun. That being said, I have shot (video) with pellet guns involved and never had anyone report me, but it was still a stupid risk to take.

I posted the same question over at dvxuser.com and someone reccomended this company:

http://www.creative-effects.com/Special_Effects_Rentals/Guns/guns.html

I think I'll use one of thier guns and avoid the hassle of blanks -- especially since I'm shooting in NJ.

So far for my film, we've been using airsoft guns and figuring on putting in a muzzle flash/explosion in post, but I'm thinking about using blanks authenticity, and had a couple of questions:

1. What's the difference between a real gun (firing blanks) and a blank gun?

2. I know it probably differs by state, but can you own a gun without a permit/license, if you use it only for firing blanks?

Some of my co-workers are experienced gun owners (that is, with live rounds), so I would probably ask them for help if I were to go this route.

i got a box full of airsoft gun and blank gun (and a real one).
It is difficult to differentiate them (even for the plastic ones).
i think in USA , the airsoft gun must have the muzzle colored in red or orange.
1. What's the difference between a real gun (firing blanks) and a blank gun?
a real blank gun is made for this use, and has minor technical differences.
the new law for blank gun in europe allows only the gas to be released on top of the gun (so it is pretty useless for movies).
Still many blank guns can exhaust gas as real ones, but caliber is different (8mm instead 9mm for exampl) so you can not make mistake by using real ammunition.
And obvioulsy you can find real gun modified to be blank gun, so they have a smaller tube or partially obstructed.

My opinion is that airsoft guns are great, because they can cause no arm, they look and feel real (some are made from metal, some are just plastic but heavy, and some are plastic and lightweigth) and they are cheap.
you can find many models, from the small gun up to the big sniper rifle.
For the ego of actor, take the ones that look and feel like real (while most people underestimate the weight of a real gun, so if you use real ones, they usually find them too heavy) except for fight scene,where light plastic is safer.
On location, you never know when some stupid guy start to be smart with such device, and this is when accident happens.
there is a nice software called EffectsLab (previously AlamDV) that does muzzle flash for guns.
http://fxhome.com/

One other thought would be to contact a local gun club. It might be possible to get someone to fire a pistol for you on their firing range.

I know there are clubs in NJ. I used to shoot in pistol league in Massachusetts and they were a real pain in the ... in so far as getting a pistol permit, but in the end you could always get one if you had no record and a membership in a club that had appropriate facitities. Our club had both indoor and outdoor ranges.

Or you could come to Arizona!

By the way, I know from personal experience that you can indeed have a bunch of skin ripped off your hand if your hold on an automatic is a little too high up on the grip. Only good part is that it happens so fast that you don't feel anything ... until afterwards! And it can be a lot worse than losing some skin. I was kucky.

Caution is the watchword.

Another by the way - don't they still use blank guns to start track and field events? When I played in band in college, the drillmaster had a starter's pistol that he would use to signal changes in formation. No muzzle flash though, as I recall.

for the flash, i could say that video gives poor result (flashes are short), but they are perfectly visible especially on dark background.
As we all know, movie are all except reality, so making flashes on post will give you the chance to make over exagerated hollywood flashes (or people will believe they are wrong).
And i forget, the noise made by such blank gun is crazy, can make you deaf (or give a a big grin to your actors, looks awful), it is another reason to use airsoft gun.

I need a blank firing handgun that has muzzle flare for a movie I'm shooting. The gun I have makes only the sound -- no flash. Does anyone know where I could purchase a blank gun that will have a flash? I'm trying not to add them in post?

Thanks

You have some fair advice already but here is mine.

Modern ammunition carried by law enforcement and by liscensed citizens is usually made with gunpowders blended to eliminate or reduce muzzle flash.

Muzzle flash is normally not visible in daylight or fairly well lit interiors, and may or may not be visible at night depending on barrel length and specific velocity loading.

Practice ammo will usually show muzzle flash at night in reduced levels of illumination, and duty/carry ammo may show a fair amount of flash out of very short barrels.

Hollywood, of course, ignores facts and adds flash and unrealistic sounds (Road To Perdition, where every time a 1911 .45 was drawn with one hand you heard the slide being racked-usually a two handed operation).

I suggest using airsoft replicas and simply paint the orange tip black, and if you must, add muzzle flash in post. Do not use blanks.

I teach Defensive Handgun and some of the shooting I put my students through is at night and even with cheap practice ammo you might be surprised at how little flash we see.

So far for my film, we've been using airsoft guns and figuring on putting in a muzzle flash/explosion in post, but I'm thinking about using blanks authenticity, and had a couple of questions:

1. What's the difference between a real gun (firing blanks) and a blank gun?

2. I know it probably differs by state, but can you own a gun without a permit/license, if you use it only for firing blanks?

Some of my co-workers are experienced gun owners (that is, with live rounds), so I would probably ask them for help if I were to go this route.

1. Blank firing replica guns use are "chambered" for a unique case size so real ammunition can not be loaded and chambered in them.

2. If a state requires a permit or license to purchase or own a gun, it doesn't matter that you may only intend to use it with blanks.

I would use airsoft or totally inert replicas for filmmaking. Ring's makes a polystyrene "dummy" gun that is so accurate in size and form that it actually fits the real holsters the replica imitates. While normally produced in blue polystyrene (hence the term "blue gun"...Most of us who instruct use these to demonstrate technique safely), these can also be ordered in black.

Many movie props are actually Ring's products.

I have a "blue gun" full size Glock 17 and a rubber replica of a Remington Rand 1911A1 .45 (bought it from a guy used to carry it on maneuvers while in the army. The officers had to have something in the holster and knowing they would not be drawing and firing, saved both carry weight and the hassle of checking a real one out of and back in the armory).

I've posted this before a while back but it seems relevant in here, these are pretty realistic weapons from a company in England called Model Guns (they post internationally by the way). This is the route i will be taking on my next film although they are pretty expensive.

They are not real in any way apart from how real they look and act, they use reusable shells where you just have to replace the cap (charge) and they need no license.

video link
http://www.box.net/shared/static/bkqe2mtrmi.wmv

website link
http://www.modelguns.co.uk/index.htm

enjoy

Andy.

Here's a solution for you...

http://forums.creativecow.net/articles/kramer_andrew/lighting/index.htm

Thanks for the tips.

Even though I still think all the muzzle flashes I've seen done in post look kind of cheesy, that's probably the way I'll be going considering the expense, safety and legal issues of using a real gun with blanks.

Blank firing replica guns use are "chambered" for a unique case size so real ammunition can not be loaded and chambered in them.

I used to have a blank pistol back in the mid 70's. It used .22 blanks and had double action. The barrel however, had a unique milling that left an obstruction present towards the muzzle to prevent using real .22 rounds.

A couple years ago, I was looking online for blank rounds to put in my real .357 for gun training my lab. They are available online, but I could never find them stocked at local gun shops.

-gb-

There are so many potential problems with blanks and since you will probably have to add a flash in post anyway, you'd be better off with airsoft guns. It's real easy to add the bang, plus you'll have complete control of it, unlike trying to record the sound of the blank.

A couple years ago I did massive research on airsoft guns because I was considering getting into it as a hobby (it didn't happen). There is a HUGE variety of very realistic looking guns available, for a fraction of the cost of real ones.

It's real easy to add the bang, plus you'll have complete control of it, unlike trying to record the sound of the blank.


I agree, I've recorded blank guns and real shotguns and rifles etc and the recorded sound just sounds like a pop. The most realistic sounding guns i've heard in a movie was from Heat with Rob deniro, i'm not sure if they added those in post or if the 762 blank was enough.

Andy.