For the last few years I have shot on an XL1 with the stock 16X lens. Have any of you fellow camera ops used the manual 16X?
What are the advantages?
What are the disadvantages? I know I'll lose the image stabilizer but I shoot everything from a tripod, or try to anyway.

Thanks & good shooting!

Dave

Dave,

I highly recommend the 16x manual lens, especially for anyone experienced with professional broadcast lenses.

It feels much more like the lenses you're used to. The only problem I have is that the iris is still controlled by the thumbwheel on the camera body.

I just can't seem to get used to that.

I've never used one, but I understand the 14x manual has iris control on the lens itself.

mike avery

One thing that I would like to mention is the view finder. When I bought my 16x Manual Servo Lens, I went with the color viewfinder. This was a mistake. The Black and White Viewfinder (FU-1000) was the one I should have gone with. It allows for more precise focus control. Don't get me wrong, you can still do it with the color viewfinder or an external monitor. The black and white viewfinder just makes it a lot easier.

My recommendation is to call Mizel at ZGC and talk with him about it. You can reach him at 973-335-4460 9 to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday EST. Web address is: http://www.zgc.com

Thanks Paul, I'll call him in the morning.

Mike...Based on all the info gathered here, it seems the best set up would be to invest in an XL1s body, a B&W viewer on on the camera & a 16X manual lens.

Best,

DW

I know everyone says that you can't achieve accurate critical focus with the color LCD, but I swear by whatever gods you choose to believe in that with the manual lens, you can.

I've done it several times, relying on nothing else but the viewfinder for my focus, and when viewed on a TV or computer monitor, it looks just peachy.

I think it's a matter of experience. I've been focusing cameras for well over 20 years. In my production and broadcast days the VF were all B&W, color was a luxury. When I purchased my first XL1 the color VF and size took a little getting used to. Now days I don't give focusing with the color VF a second thought. Would it be easier with the B&W VF? I don't know, but the color works just fine. Spend a little time with whatever VF you get and get to know it.

I use the older Canon 14x mauual focus and I think you may find the manual focus more to your liking. I find the image a little sharper and I use it for most of my interview type work. I still use the 16x AF lens. But mostly off tripod and when i feel the need for the IS. Have you tried the 3x AF? I use it a great deal for establishing shots and on my Glidecam (Steadicam). I would think it would be ideal on a small boat and in tight spaces.

Jeff

I would have to agree with Jeff.

Overall, I would say that it has to do with what you are used to using. I too have shot for many years with B&W EVF's and yes, they are much sharper than the color EVF. This doesn't mean that I do not use the color EVF - I use it frequently when I want to see color composition but do not have an external monitor nearby. My brain just simply adapts and I am able to focus without any problem really. Yes, I would like to see a higher resolution color EVF for the XL1S - will we see one anytime soon??? Well, we haven't seen one yet, but who knows...

By the way, I always monitor whenever I can with an external SONY color field monitor when I am shooting with the XL1S, as I do when I am shooting in DVCam and BetaCam as well. It's just good procedure, alows you to get instant feedback regarding whitebalance, NTSC framing, etc.

One accessory which I have recently found and am very excited about is TIFFEN's "Tele-2X" Wide Angle Viewfinder adaptor
http://www.tiffen.com/tele2x.htm

I often use it when I am using the B&W viewfinder, it really gives you the feel of a flip-out LCD panel, or a camera-mounted "studio viewfinder". Add a second pan handle to your tripod, a Varizoom focus control for the 16X Manual/ Servo lens and a Varizoom zoom control and you really do have a sweet "studio setup".

Originally designed by Ira Tiffen for the shooters of the US Open Tour, there are versions for Sony and Ikegami pro viewfinders. Since the Canon B&W viewfinder is manufactured by Ikegami, the WAVFIKEGAMI model works perfectly. At the moment, there is no model available yet for the Canon color EVF - but there will be soon, am working with Tiffen to develop one and I will keep you posted at some point soon regarding its' availbility.

I will be bringing my "Tele-2X" with me to the WEVA Show in Vegas next week, in case anyone is at the show, look me up at the Canon booth and I will show it to you.

I will be providing Chris with a report on the Tiffen "Tele-2X" shortly.

- don

Hello Don,

Thank you for your very interesting comment, can you let us know when your report on this accesory will be available ? I would be interested to know if you can use the Tiffen 2x wide angle on the both ways far-head and also close-up. I mean you can leave it permanently on your B&W viewfinder ?

Thank in advance for your answer.
Pierre

Two things: what exactly does this Tiffen dealy do? It magnifies the viewfinder?

Also, just out of curiosity, why is the color EVF overscanned/underscanned/call it what you will instead of like a b&w EVF, with the framing marks denoting action and title safe areas, and showing the entire area that the lens will record? Was it more technologically plausible to build this way?

Pieere and Josh,

The Tele-2X is meant to be used when you want to stand back from your camera a couple of feet as you would do if you were using a "studio configuration". A handy accessory to keep in your bag, especially with the B&W EVF as that viewfinder shows extra detail becuase it is a CRT - especially in those situations where you can not always carry an external monitor with you. You can actually stand back from the camera a bit and still see the EVF image well enough to make critical focusing adjustments - pretty cool.

You can always leave it on your B&W EVF, yes, however you would want to keep the standard eyepiece extension tube from the B&W EVF nearby, in case you would need to look into the EVF as you would normally do, with your eye pressed against the eyecup. The TELE-2x, by it's own design, works pretty well outdoors too. I am hoping that KATA will be able to offer a case for the TELE-2x, which will double as an additional sunhood when outdoors in very bright sunlit conditions. The guys at KATA are ingenious as far as design goes and this would be an extremely useful accessory for the TELE-2x to keep it in showroom condition.

Josh, remember that the color EVF is based on an LCD, while the B&W EVF is based on an actual CRT. That is why it shows the image as it would be seen on a larger CRT. I suppose the color EVF has limitations due to the price point it was intended for - I have yet to see any color LCD EVF perform any different than the one on the XL1(S) in this regard.

Let's hope that Canon keeps these user comments in mind with future EVFs - they are usually very attentive to their customer base as far as designing future products.

- don

Pierre, please pardon my typo errors as it has been an extremely long day out in the field!

- don
noisybrain.com

That's just it though--I have a varizoom external LCD monitor, that DOES show the entire image, not just the overscanned portion. . .maybe it is a price thing though.

In addition, it seems that having this monitor defeats the purpose of the 2x dealy, no?

Thank to take time to answer quickly, that is exactly what I wanted to know.
Best regards
Pierre

Thanks everyone & again, this board is an excellent way to gather info from the best source, and that's people who have USED the gear.

I have placed a request to ZITO on a price quote for an XL1S body, the 16X manual lens & the b&w view finder. I also thanked them for their support of this website.

It's important for all of us to support the sponsors who support this site, even if it means paying 10 or 20 bucks more.

Good shooting,

Dave

<<<-- Originally posted by DaveWatson : Thanks everyone & again, this board is an excellent way to gather info from the best source, and that's people who have USED the gear.

I have placed a request to ZITO on a price quote for an XL1S body, the 16X manual lens & the b&w view finder. I also thanked them for their support of this website.

It's important for all of us to support the sponsors who support this site, even if it means paying 10 or 20 bucks more.

Good shooting,

Dave -->>>

Dave,

If you have not done it already, give Mizel a call at ZGC. He is a great guy with a ton of knowledge.

had a quick question and didn't want to start another thread for it. for shooting a college marching band performance, would the manual or stock xL1s lens be better? i was thinking the manual would be because of all the different bodies in different formations might make the stock lens's focus "jump"? i'll be up in the stands shooting. thanks for any help.

matt

True, but with the manual lens you might have to constantly pull your focus to keep stuff from going blurry. It depends whether you want to zoom in or not (seems to me). If you stay wide all the time, and shoot at f8 or so (I'm told that stopped down any more and you start to lose sharpness-- f8 will maximize your depth of field while allowing you to maintain sharpness) then should be able to avoid refocusing. If you want to zoom in however, perhaps the stock lens might be better, as it would instantly focus on your subject.


To Chris Hurd: would it be possible to change my. . .erm slogan from "Master Control Sucks" to "Everything I've just written is probably wrong"?

Pretty good advice from where I sit Josh. The only thing I would add is the ability of the stock16x (white) to enable Image stabilization. IS wouldn't make much difference when your wide, but if you want any tighter shots the IS is almost mandatory. If you try to zoom to 88mm (about 12x) every little movement will be magnified.

Jeff

If you are shooting handheld, just forget about using the manual lens right now. The IS on the stock lens will save your butt on anything from a 50% zoom and closer.

Of course if you are using a tripod (which would be a better choice) then it isn't as important.

Yes, I totally forgot to think of that. You are correct. Unless you are the steadiest shooter alive and can pull your own focus, go stock lens on this job.

And Josh, you can change your, um, slogan to whatever you want from your user control panel (the "user cp" button at the top of the page).

I have an XL1s and am considering getting a second manual zoom. B&H has a nice prices 14x Canon lense and a more expensive 16x. For the money, I like the 14x but i'm curious if anyone out there has used it. I assume the zoom and focus are manual but what about the iris? Of the scanty information provided by B&H, there is a mention of "electrical connections" on the lense. Does this mean the camera can controll the iris automatically if needed.

If anyone has used this lense before and can provide some answers, let me know.

Adam

The 14x Full Manual lens is a sweet lens for filmmaking where you are doing setups and need precise iris control, however, it is completely manual. That means manual zoom too, no servo zoom - which the 16X Manual/ Servo lens does provide. If you plan on doing more run and gun shooting such as ENG-style, then you'll probably appreciate the servo zoom control provided on the newer 16X M/S lens. Both have follow-focus attachment capability. There is no significant difference regarding sharpness or quality between the two. I actually really like the 14X Full Manual lens, it's the type of lens I grew up with and am most comfortable with.

On the 14x, there is an actual manual iris on the lens, like any other full manual lens provides,,, very analog ;o)

On the 16x M/S lens, the "iris control" is the exposure wheel on the left next to the shutter speed controls. That means that there is no iris control on the lens, it is done on camera. The 16x M/S lens DOES provide you with two stages of ND, where the 14x Full Manual lens does not.

How much is the 14X Full Manual lens selling for these days?

- don

Doesn't the 14x sell for around 1000 nowadays? I also remember reading that you can buy a servo attachment for that particular lens---but don't know why you'd want to.

I've been thinking of getting one of them century optics anamorphic adapters.

Has anyone here used them on an XL-1 yet? I was gonna rent one from a shop in town to try out, but they don't have the step ring, like the package deal on ZGC.com.

I know that it'll work fine on internal focus lens, like manual 16x and IS-16x. I was wondering if there was a way to rig the adapter to a 14x lens, since I prefer to shoot with that all manual feel, and don't have money/access to a 16x. I have a 15mm rail/mattebox system, and was wondering if I should just talk to zgc about it.

Any info would be great. Thanks

Adrian