View Full Version : XL2 Audio


Jim Giberti
October 1st, 2004, 10:27 AM
Without getting too estoteric, I wanted to give a quick report on audio tests I ran in the studio on the live interview work we did this week.

After testing different setups in a controlled studio environment (a brand new audio room tweaked with acoustic treatment, ASC Tube Traps etc.) comparing a ME66 using a Sound Devices MixPre, its pres, phantom power, monitoring etc. vs direct into the new mixer section and XLR section of the XL2, I decided to do these documentary segments straight to the XL2.

What I found (or didn't find) upon listnening back to the studio tests on industry standard Yamaha NS-10s as well as 2 other reference systems, was a "too close to call" similarity in response and, most critically, in signal to noise.

I was a bit surprised and very pleased to find the self noise of the new preamps to be below a reasonable signal threshold. Using the XL2s phantom power with the XLRT ATT off and no GAIN UP in the audio menu, I was able to get a nice fat signal averaging 12 db and peaking around 6 which is ideal for my goal of a tight signal to tape without the risk of reaching digital clipping.

So off we went to test this in a pretty critical real world situation where I had a sound person using the XL2 headphone out for monitors and using the XL2 meters in a field monitor to watch levels (which I set up and monitored during the shoot as well...they never wandered much at all).

Of course all of this is dependent on good mic technique, mic isolation and wind control etc. In this case I used a Lightwave screen, sock and isolation mount...nothing fancy, the mic properly positioned for best on axis sound and just off camera in each instance on a fixed stand, no boom opertator.

After reviewing 5 hours of footage yesterday and checking all the audio back in my recording studio through the same monitoring setup, I was very happy. Good tight audio, no hiss or digital junk, clean and loud.

As impressive was the fact that I used the onboard stereo mic with manual gain to capture all the ambient sound of ski jumpers going off the 90 meter on plastic, roller skiing, target shooting at the biathalon range etc. All very useable audio in a broadcast situation, Ideal for B-roll, and creating a soundtrack, and very 3 dimensional.

So my synopsis is simply; you can absolutely go out in controlled and dynamic situations with a decent audio kit and use the XL2 as your 48v power, preamp and mixer section and come away with great audio.

Barry Goyette
October 1st, 2004, 10:37 AM
Jim

thanks for the report..good news. Can you educate me here? I have the ME66 as well, but currently I'm using the K6 module (battery powered). When you recommend using the phantom power...what does that buy me?

Bill Ravens
October 1st, 2004, 11:20 AM
I've been using my ME66 shotgun on a Lightwave Mike mount and using the XL2 phantom power switched on. It saves the small battery on the ME66, as well as avoiding my tendency to always forget to turn it on when I start recording.

Barry Goyette
October 1st, 2004, 11:30 AM
Bill

my problem is forgetting to turn it OFF...always putting in a new battery cause I left it on last time...but I guess my question was related to sound quality or signal...is there any benefit to phantom power in this area?

Barry

Bill Ravens
October 1st, 2004, 11:40 AM
none

Aaron Shaw
October 1st, 2004, 12:09 PM
Thanks for the great report :).

Tim Brown
October 1st, 2004, 01:46 PM
Some mics are a little more sensitive when using phantom power but I don't know if the differences between using the batt and phantom on the ME66 is great enough to warrant one over the other.

Jim Giberti
October 1st, 2004, 02:43 PM
<<Some mics are a little more sensitive when using phantom power but I don't know if the differences between using the batt and phantom on the ME66 is great enough to warrant one over the other.>>

Exactly, and I did a good deal of listening in the studio to compare this as well. No discernible difference, and obviously using the phantom power on the XL2 is one less battery system you have to think about.

On that note there's another thing I love about this setup. When you consider a quality 7', 16:9 monitor using the Nebtek or Delvcam (good companies...lousy names) 12v Canon battery retrofits, and now the onboard XLRs w/ 48v power, you can go into the field with great video, audio, and widescreen monitoring all powered from the Canon lithium system.

And on that note, anyone wondering whether the inexpensive lithium batteries have any issues, I've been using a number of Eagle Imports 5600 mAh batteries in our kit along with the Canons. These things cost 24.95, I think, and they're about 20% more capacity than the large Canons and haven't failed once in a couple of years of useage....

Deron Bauman
October 3rd, 2004, 12:38 AM
So, just a quick question. I had heard that the xl2 does not have a way to adjust xlr audio from external sources. Meaning, if you use xlr microphones you have to attach a mixer to the camera to adjust audio levels. I assume from your description that this is incorrect.

Sorry for the entry-level question. I am trying to learn as much as possible before purchasing.

David Lach
October 3rd, 2004, 01:12 AM
Deron, there's audio levels for each channel on the XL2. See it here (http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxl2/images/images04.php).

Don Palomaki
October 3rd, 2004, 07:38 AM
Deron: The issue you speak of may be that the XL2 adapter is not designed to accept a line-level XLR input. A line-level input is too hot. It is desigend for mic-level inputs (e.g., -30 dBV or less). For most users this is a non-issue.

Chris Hurd
October 3rd, 2004, 07:54 AM
Indeed, the audio input *levels* are completely adjustable via external controls on the camera body. The XLR jacks are for mic level sources; the RCA jacks are for line level sources.

Deron Bauman
October 3rd, 2004, 11:19 AM
So, I could buy a sennheiser shotgun mic and connect it to the xl2 directly and control the level of sound it records on the camera?

Chris Hurd
October 3rd, 2004, 12:02 PM
Yup. Sorry for the one-word answer, but yes, you can.

Deron Bauman
October 3rd, 2004, 12:36 PM
Thank you. I appreciate it. Sometimes one word is all you need!

Jim Giberti
October 3rd, 2004, 04:33 PM
<<So, I could buy a sennheiser shotgun mic and connect it to the xl2 directly and control the level of sound it records on the camera?>>

Deron, everything I wrote about in my mini review was using a Sennheiser connected directly to the XL2. I used more than one word, but I thought I was pretty clear <g>

Deron Bauman
October 3rd, 2004, 05:50 PM
I felt like you were; just wanted to make sure I understood correctly. I had heard that the xl2 had no audio control for external microphones, which sounded odd / wrong, and now I know it is. Thanks.

Greg Matty
October 11th, 2004, 08:03 AM
I use an AT inline barrel attenuator when recording loud signals into my DVX-100 and was wondering if you do something similar with your XL-2?

Greg

R.C. White
October 11th, 2004, 04:19 PM
Chris..

First, thanks....I learn something everytime I turn to this forum.

Second, I'm still a little confused about the XL2's ability to handle line level audio signals. Inasmuch as I shoot news and often participate in courtroom pool video, I need to be able to accept either mike or line level when I daisy-chain with other photogs in the absence of a mul-box....

The XL1s had a menu selection to pick the audio level. Darned if I can find that on the XL2. 20db attenuation isn't enough....

I bought a 40db pad, but I'd love to be able to avoid using it.

What am I missing?

Thanks again,

Bob

Chris Hurd
October 11th, 2004, 06:44 PM
Bob, you're missing line-level inputs through the XLR's -- because they ain't there. It's line-level via the RCA jacks only; XLR's on the XL2 are mic-level only. And that's just the way it is, to the chagrin of some.

R.C. White
October 11th, 2004, 07:50 PM
Chris,

Well, I can certainly live with that. It just means I need to carry two sets of cables....the old XL1s set with the RCA plugs and the new set with the XLR's....of course, the pad is smaller and lighter...

Hey, a little off the thread...but ... I checked the US and Canadian Canon sites and have not been able to find the software download for the DV-PC recorder that was advertised on the Canon pkg insert that came with the camera.... I've also received no human replies from my e-mail inquiries. Is it me or them?

Thanks again for your help.

Bob

Rob Lohman
October 14th, 2004, 07:23 AM
Bob: you can download the software and manual here:

http://www.canon-europe.com/xl2/Firmware_Upgrade.asp?ComponentID=222786&SourcePageID=222801#1

Bill Ravens
October 14th, 2004, 07:29 AM
...and here:
http://www.canon.ca/english/index-products.asp?lng=en&prodid=632&sgid=5&gid=2&ovr=1

R.C. White
October 14th, 2004, 07:52 AM
Download of the DV-PC Software is in progress!

Thank you!

Bob

Meryem Ersoz
July 26th, 2005, 09:40 AM
if i use an XL2 as a 48v phantom power source for a rode NT1a microphone to do voice-over work (DV tape imported into FCP 4.5) for a video, is there a way to then convert that same voice file into an mp3, to use part of it in a podcast?

Patrick King
July 26th, 2005, 09:43 AM
if i use an XL2 as a 48v phantom power source for a rode NT1a microphone to do voice-over work (DV tape imported into FCP 4.5) for a video, is there a way to then convert that same voice file into an mp3, to use part of it in a podcast?

Meryem, If you have it on the timeline in FCP, you should be able to render it out to a MP3 file (you can in Vegas anyway). Just check the Render options available in FCP.