I've used Ulead Media Studio Pro for the last 3 or 4 years. And it has basically always done what I needed it to do.

Now that I have the XL2 I would like to get some new software. But I'm completely lost on what to get. I want to be able to edit 16:9 and 24f. And also have good CG.

Please give your opinions to which software you think will complement the XL2 and is overall the best software, for under $1,200.


Thanks,

j.

If you're on the PC platform, Vegas 5.0 is my heartiest recommendation.

Barry, does Vegas remove the extra frame when editing with 24p 2:3:3:2 footage?

Vegas allows you to work seamlessly with 24P material.

It captures the file in full 60i mode, so you can choose to edit the file as either 24P or as 60i. In 24P mode it'll automatically remove the "extra" pulldown frame on the fly, giving you instant access to the pure, raw 24P content. (it'll also do this for 2:3 pulldown footage).

Or you could choose to edit in 60i, and it'll work just great with that too.

With Vegas there's no recapturing, no hassle, just instant 24P compatibility right out of the box.

And you can use it to render 24P DVD-compatible files (including AC-3 surround-sound audio!) so you can produce your own 24P DVD's, just like Hollywood DVD's! The 24P DVD stuff means you can fit 20% more on a disc, or use lower compression to get better quality, and it'll play back as true progressive on any DVD player that supports progressive/component output.

I second that Vegas suggestion. I have worked with a lot of NLE's and when I'm working on my own stuff, I choose Vegas Baby.

John, I started useing Vegas5 about 5 months ago and I am amazed at its ease and quality. I am doing a DVD Health Education program useing it and my XL-1s. Go to the Vegas5 or Sony web page and you can download a completely operational demo for 30 days. Also, do the download for the DVD2a program that does the DVD. Also, I highly recommend Douglas Spotted Eagle's training DVD's. Several places will send you both series of the training DVD's free. They are a MUST have. Bob Safay

John--

I've been using Vegas since version 3.0. It just keeps getting better and better. You can't go wrong with Vegas 5.0. And with the $1,200 you can get Vegas+DVD Production Suite and get back change! You can even download the trial version and give it spin, see how you like it:

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/download/step2.asp?DID=503

Jay

yep, Vegas 5 is definitely the best around, short of a $10K editting system. It includes compositing capability that you pay extra for in other methods.

Hmmm, I might consider doing the switch to Vegas. I've always been a Premiere user and enjoy the tools it provides but it has always been unstable and is quite CPU hungry. After 20-30 minutes long of timeline it often starts to become sluggish and slow.

Would Vegas still hold his ground against Avid Xpress DV? I've been considering this one for a while too.

I own Xpres DV Pro, and I am quite happy with it. I've played around with Vegas Demo, and didn't care for the media management or the cutting flow... but the audio tools are superb.

If you are doing short pieces, music videos, xtreme graphics and such, I would reccomend Vegas. If you are looking to do long form and feature work, then look into the Avid. The full package of Pro includes a full copy of Boris for effects and titling, nice package that is worth about $700 bucks on it's own. But the package will run over 1200 bucks all told. (Xpress DV is about 600 I bleive, but doesn't come with the boris package or the film cutting tools... which you might not need if you never intend to cut film)

Avid has a lot of different packages available, www.avid.com

Barry, I'm a little lost here:

" It captures the file in full 60i mode, so you can choose to edit the file as either 24P or as 60i. "

In so far as I know Vegas auto detects what it was shot at and imports it as such. I have some footage I just shot in 24p and cannot see how you can " choose " to have it be 60i. I can change the properties of the " project " , but the clip is still 24p. If I right click on the clip in the timeline>properties>media it's frame rate is 23.976 (IVTC Film), and the drop down is not available.

Could you expand on this a bit more. I have some footage that I would like to slomo, and at 24p looks pretty awful. This could be of great help if its possible to do what you say.

Thanks;

- Ray

If I understand what you're asking, vegas performs an inverse telecine on telecined material. Sound like double-talk, eh? The signal from the CCD block is 24p, however, NTSC convention dictates that the 24p is converted to 30p when it's written to tape. The conversion is performed either as 2;3 or 2;3;3;2 pulldown. So the data you get on the DV tape *IS* 30 frames per second, regardless of how it was actually detected by the CCD. Vegas, in its wisdom can remove the extra frames inserted during the pulldown process to return you to the 24 frames per second. note that 2;3 pulldown is not perfectly reversible because some info is thrown away during the pulldown process. 2:3:3:2 is perfectly reversible as all the original frames are retained. Vegas gives you a choice of whether to perform inverse telecine or not. That is to say, you can edit in 30p mode or 24p mode, depending on how you select your preferences.

Hope this helps.

Hey Bill, thanks for clarifying ... but I'm still confused. =P

1) Barry was saying " you can choose to edit the file as either 24P or as 60i. ", as opposed to what I hear you saying, 24p or 60i. *confused*

2) You said " you can edit in 30p mode or 24p mode, depending on how you select your preferences. " Which preferences ? I know you can change the project settings ( File>Properties ) but that doesn't appear to change much. Or, you can right click on the media in the timeline, which in this case its set to 23.976 (IVTC Film), and the drop down is not available.

Just trying to figure this out for my own well being, and in this case, trying to figure out the best way to slow down some pretty good footage that right now at 24p 2:3, looks pretty bad when trying to slomo.

Thanks for the help !

- Ray

Under OPTIONS/PREFERENCES/GENERAL check or uncheck <ALLOW PULLDOWN REMOVAL WHEN OPENING 24P>

All this does is remove the pulldown. Pulldown has no effect on slomo since the choices are native 24p at normal speed or 30p/60i at normal speed. The frame rate changes because extra frames are added or removed. If you want to adjust the speed in Vegas, you need to play with the speed envelope. It is a fact that 60i telecine'd footage looks terrible in slomo because some of the frames are merely duplicates of the preceeding frame.

Also, Vegas, by default, will resample footage. This means it will create frames by interpolating new frames from other frames. The interpolating process will always generate loss of resolution....that's why 2:3 footage that's inverse telecined looks so bad. So be sure you do two things for better slo-mo--
1-Don't work with 2:3 pulldown footage
2-disable "always resample"

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Premiere Pro 1.5.
Premiere Pro 1.5 edits 24P(2:3:3:2) and it is going to be upgraded for HDV.

Yeah, let me try to clarify:

All DVX footage, all XL2 footage, in fact ALL DV footage of all types, is recorded as 60i on tape (talking NTSC here).

The DVX and XL2 can "flag" the video stream to let 24P-aware editors know that the footage could be reconstituted to 24P, if the user so chose to do so.

Vegas captures the file exactly as it's written on tape, which means that on the hard disk, it's a 60i file with 24P flags intact. (as I understand, FCP doesn't do it that way, it forces you to decide whether you want the footage to be treated as 24P or 60i upon capture).

So let's say you shot some 24P footage. In Vegas, you could start a new 24P project, select "allow pulldown removal", and drop that captured file right on the timeline. You would now be editing the pure 24P data stream, reconstituted to its full 24-frame-per-second glory.

Let's say you also wanted to edit some 60i footage, and you thought this 24P footage would look good in it. You open another project, this time selecting 60i, and disabling "allow pulldown removal". Pull in that 24P footage and drop it on the timeline, and Vegas will edit it just like it was recorded to tape: 24P footage with 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 pulldown, meaning it's now a 60i video file (but retaining the look of 24P).

Hope that clarifies things.

As far as slow-mo goes, slowing down 24P footage won't really give good results no matter which way you try... 24P is the worst format to use for slow-mo. You want to use 30P in a 24P project, played back at 80% speed, for perfect (but mild) slow-mo, and 60i in a 24P project (at 40% speed) for glass-smooth (but somewhat lower resolution) slow slow motion.

You can get the Vegas 24p guide from: http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/support/productinfo/24p.pdf

(or if that doesn't work: http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/download/step2.asp?DID=441)

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Green : Yeah, let me try to clarify:

As far as slow-mo goes, slowing down 24P footage won't really give good results no matter which way you try... 24P is the worst format to use for slow-mo. You want to use 30P in a 24P project, played back at 80% speed, for perfect (but mild) slow-mo, and 60i in a 24P project (at 40% speed) for glass-smooth (but somewhat lower resolution) slow slow motion. -->>>

It's my understanding that there are excellent post tools for reconstituting frames for slow motion. Any suggestions? Would Avid Xpress Pro be a good choice,? Some sort of third party plugin? Or simply a stand alone package?

Twixtor is in my opinion the best plugin for that job. But it's best to use it in After Effects because since it is a morphing based plugin, you will need to draw a matte around your subject to avoid background distortion.

But it can really give great results, no matter how slow you want it to get, since it creates extra hybrid frames of movement that were not there before. You will lose a bit or resolution though.

Another good reference 24P site is Adam Wilt's at:
http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html