hey i built it and used it to shoot my music video. tell me what you think of the shot!

http://www.ifilm.com/promo/yellowcard/submissions.jsp

go about 2/3rds down to "Arthur To" and watch my video. and if you like, can you cast a vote for me? PLEEEEEEEEEASE? i'd REALLY REALLY appreciate it very much.

if u feel bad about pity-voting me then compare my video with some others. but i am so desperate to win this competition

also any comments and critques about my video and/or the steadycam shot with my homebuilt would also be highly appreciated!

=)
-arthur

I did watch your video and thought it was good. I watched about 8 other videos and yours was the best of them so I gave you my vote. I didn't have the time to watch them all of the entries nor could I take that much of the same song.

I thought the idea was good to have a song and let others promote it. I will only cost the band 5K so that's not too bad.

Now for the steadycam video...fairly smooth and applicable. I wish other's video had some steadycam shots in them as much of the stuff was too jumpy. I do realize the nature of the song suggests that but I personally don't care for it.

I did like the plot that you employed in your video. I thought it was very clever.

Terry

hey thanks a bunch! =)

i really appreciate the vote and the comments. helps me expand my thinking, yea i really wished i had more steadicam shots. they're so cool

-arthur

Well done! Tell that drummer that he's freakin' amazing. The stabilizer shot down the hallway was a bit "Pendulum" like. Use 2 hands when operating!

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

wow thanks for the great tips and comments guys.

yea, my camera guys first swing at a steadicam. i wish we somehow could train.

thanks a grip =)

-arthur

Got any pictures of your stabilizer?

Good luck.

Dennis

thanks, yea i do

here it is

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3856242519

-arthur

if anyone wants a new one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3319&item=3867149472&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I can see straight why you are experiencing problems with stability.

1.) You seem to be holding the base of the Glidecam 400 post while operating, instead of very gently pinching the section just beneath the gimbal when needing to adjusting your shot.

2.) You have the Glidecam set up incorrectly, with the base of the sled angled at the wrong position.

I’m sure if you adjust these above observations, you will produce a much smoother shot.

ooooooh awesome! ill go test it out when i get the chance

thanks a bunch! =)

Note: I use the term steadycam (not Steadicam) to refer to any stabilizer that copies the famous Steadicam created by Garret Brown. Just like we use the term "velcro" instead of "hook and loop" which is it's real name. Velcro is a brand name of a "hook and loop" manufacturer. With that said...

=====================================

Dan said "The stabilizer shot down the hallway was a bit "Pendulum" like. Use 2 hands when operating!"

Dan is correct providing you have the Glidecam set up correctly and use your control hand just under the gimbal (as explained by Richard) and don't use it very much. Not only is the base "supposed" to be pointing front to back in order to balance the rig better but also the balance needs to have a 2 - 2.5 (some say 3) drop time.

For those who are reading this and don't know what "drop time" means...while holding the rig parallel to the ground, allow it to swing down making an arc (like a pendulum on a clock) and count the time between letting it go and when it swings past the vertical position. The longer the drop time, the less the rig will pendulum while operating with starts, stops and turns.

The biggest problem with a longer drop time (2.5 - 3 seconds) is that it takes a lot of time to get the rig that well balanced fore and aft as well as side to side. The Glidecam doesn't allow real fine adjustments very easily whereas a full sized Steadicam or MK-V (and others) has fine tuning. It will just take longer to achieve a fine balance.

Gee, I wish Charles Papert were here explaining this but he's probably already done it in many other posts. I hear he will be making (or already is making) a training tape to help all of us to become much better steadycam operators.

Terry

intereseting, i will definetely try the setup

thank you!

-arthur

No disrespect by this comment, but I can’t believe that people are spending $660.00 on a homebuilt arm and vest that is supposed to improve stability, and is built by a person that can't even set up the equipment properly, or understand the basics of operating.
I know that everyone needs to learn somewhere, but I can't but think that you are taking advantage of people. But guess it’s their own fault if people buy it.

Plus then you give us a link to the site where you’re selling them!

"if anyone wants a new one

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3319&item=3867149472&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW"


I had a look at the video, and I can’t see any improvement from regular handheld use of the GC400.

Again, no disrespect, (although it may have seemed so) I just had to get it off my chest.

All the best,

i understand, none taken, i'd probably say the same if it were true.

i dont build them, my dads friend knows all about this stuff and he does it but he already makes a ton making other stuff, so he wanted to help me out- esp cuz he knows i like to film.

so.... yea im learning im improving, im no good at setups and stuff, but its built by a guy who has alot of experience in this area.

i am not taking advantage of people, the rig is for reals..... me as the operator..... bleh, thank goodness i dont come with the package. anyways, 660 is also the lowest of the sales so far - and i've gotten great reviews from the people in the past who bid over 800-

thanks for your input though!

-arthur

Over £800 for that!!

It looks like it cost about £50 to make!! If that's not taking advantage, I don't know what is.

Again, no disrespect.

well many have reported back to me that it was very worth it, and that their shots were everything they wanted.

that statement sounds like the 800 dollars was worth it, you might know if you used it.

I think USA is a wonderful world. Mass market. 8 )

Arthur, I give you lots of points for humility and positive attitude!

I can't speak to the finer points of your vest andn arm, but in case you happen to go back to the drawing board, it's very crucial that they vertical sections of the arm remain as close to vertical as possible. I'm sure you've noticed a tendency for the rig to try to pull away from you, so you have to expend significant energy reigning it back in; this is the reason. I'm guessing this is partly due to flex within the arm sections and the hanress, but mostly the angle at which the arm exits the harness.

Also, FYI; the true test of a stabilizer is not, believe it or not, what it looks like during a running shot, but how it performs during very slow steps. And it's actually harder to operate these, too!

hmm, interesting, thanks for the tip

ill have to do much more practice, i'm going to shoot a wedding later (one take). haha

-arthur

Here, Here! I agree with Charles absolutely. I find when I run (or walk fast) with my Indicam stabilizer it's easier to have fluid video than when going slow. It's like a car going over a bump...When the car goes over a bump fast you hardly notice it but when a car goes over the same bump slow, it's suspension doesn't even out the jolt as well.

Arthur,
From the pictures I have seen, your arm looks a lot like Cody's plans but connected to your back instead of a front plate. I've seen Cody's plans and his video demos and they are very nice indeed. As Charles has already stated, Cody seems to have the steadycam thing down pretty well. I've also heard that Cody's full rig is fairly heavy which would help in the stability department.

Richard,
Sorry but I'm going to pick on you but no disrespect is intended either as I have been in your shoes.

If someone had made Cody's plans (vest and arm), that would fit a Glidecam 2000 or 4000 and had offered it to me for just $800 I would have bought it. I've spent over $20,000 just on tooling, supplies, research, coatings, welding...on and on and on developing the Indicam system and to look at it you would think you could build it for a few hundred dollars. The truth be know, when you go about to develop your own system you have to do a lot, and I mean a lot, of research and learning as well as trial and error work to see which springs, bearing types, bolt types, washer types, arm lengths, materials, pop rivets, etc. will work. When you "finally" get a good prototype and test it and have it tested by others you then need to buy materials in bulk in order to produce the system economically. This is all in hopes that you will eventually sell enough of them to make a profit. (I'm just starting that part.)

An example of bulk buying is-the side release buckles that are used to connect the chest plate to the vest cost around 2.50 - 3.00 dollars each if bought from a retail store but are less than a buck each if bought in quantities of 1000. Unfortunately 1000 still adds up even though the price per part is much lower. I don't even know how many different types and sizes of springs I have in my shop but it's too many. The same goes for bearings and one has to buy all these parts at the higher prices because you don't want to load up on something that might not work.

Then there's the patent thing. If you have a new way of making something that's different than what everyone else has done you would want to work on the patent to protect your invention which is another can of worms. I just went through that whole patent pending thing a couple of weeks ago and had to draw the whole system and then draw the parts of it that that I believed were patentable with labels, figures, original patents with differences, descriptions, etc. There goes another few weeks of work as well as the money to file. (By the way, it's not a fun thing)

Sorry this is so long but it's in defense of Arthur, myself, and all others like us who are working on these systems in hopes of helping fellow videographers take better shots.

In conclusion here is a story: After the new world was discovered, many told Christopher Columbus that it wasn't such a big thing that he had done and that anyone could have discovered America (I know about the Viking thing). Columbus then took an egg and asked if any of them could stand it on it's end. After they all tried and failed they said it couldn't be done. Columbus then tapped the egg on it's end breaking the shell just enough to stand the egg up and stated "Once I have done it, anyone can do it." The moral of the story is research and developement does matter!

I'll wait to write more after I am severely chastised.

Thanks for reading my book...

Terry

nono i didnt mind the length

that was relaly encouraging, and insightful too. yea it took me a long time to get things down and going.

i was 15 when i staretd the research, and its been 3 years (Almost) and NOW it flies perfectly. (well as good as i want it, and as good as it shows up on the video.)

=)

-arthur

I understand the above points, but I still don’t understand that you can proclaim to make it fly perfectly, when your not even operating the stabilizer that’s connected to it correctly.
It would seem to me that your research is based on ideas that resulted form an incorrectly operated rig in the first place. That’s my only point.

On a different subject...

Terry, what do you recon of the new Glidecam product that is very similar to yours? I think it’s meant to be a vest and arm system.
Casey Visco wrote...

"Smooth Shooter. This is a very compact, completely redesigned SINGLE section arm, designed to be used with either a 2000 or 4000 Pro."

"it appears at this point that the V-8 will principally be replaced by a Smooth Shooter/4000 Pro combination. Testing has shown that this will, in many ways, be a marked improvement over the V-8."

Richard,

I haven't seen the Smooth Shooter/4000 pro (I guess most of us haven't) but I can bet it's an improvement on the V8. I tried the V8 and it worked well but I liked my system better as it was much more comfortable and has two articulated arms. The whole system also fits into the patent pending backpack / vest.

I do like the guys at Glidecam and feel they have made many good products. I guess I'll see their new stuff at NAB this year.

I do agree with you Richard that Arthur (and most of the rest of us) need better steadycam shooting skills. I suppose the true test of any stabilization system would be to have a professional (like one of the Charles') test it out and see how well it does. That is what I hope to do when I go to the Videomaker Expo West in Feb. I would like to meet up with Charles P. and let him put my stabilizer through it's paces. I'm sure he'll like it but I'm also sure he will have improvements he would like to see made. It all boils down to time and money.

Terry

you guys are going to video maker expo west too?!! so is charles?!?

i am too, i am going on saturday, can we meet or anything just to say hi and stuff?

can i meet charles? (the guy from homebuiltstabilizer website?)

let me know
-arthur

I'm sure he's talking about Mr Papert. Unless Mr King plans on flying over from Europe. :D

I guess you'll just have to put up with Charles P, I'm sure you could think of something to ask him.

edit: Arthur, just checked out your profile, says that you own a V16...why you messing around with homebuilts then?
It's not just an excuse to promote your stabilizer that your selling is it? (I have a suspicious mind)

Nice dry Mancunian wit, Richard (me mum's from Didsbury, as it turns out).

Ahh Didsbury, I know it well. I now know why you scooted off to America :P

O.K. you guys, knock it off with the private jokes or let us in on it.

Terry

It looks like a slapped together version
of CODY DEEGAN's stabilizer.


www.codydeegan.com

I totally agree. Go to Cody's website, buy the how to manual and build your own. Costs about 150-200 for everything plus $40 the manual and it's very will written and has great pictures. I saw one of his designs go on ebay for 1800 the other day.

That is a far cry from 800. Go to www.homebuiltstabilizers.com and check out the wealth of information.

Jon

I agree with what jon says. go to HBS and check out the info. Especially on the forum where you can learn the technical side of it all. Believe me those guys know what they are talkin about. One thing about these guys are they are very helpfull and always willing to help.

If you can, and should is get cody's book as well as charles book. He has one that is called 'things to know before building a full rig'

I bought it and the info in there will definately help you understand the steadicam and any stabilizer better. I think most will agree with me. Hope this helps.

Remember Charles king once said its' never easy to build a stabilizer and in his books he states why. Then again it always depends on what you are after. most will probably diagree but i think Charles Papert will agree.

I've sort of lost track of all this. Where are we?

Homebuild-wise, I keep seeing that folks are cheerfully jumping on that "$14 stabilizer" concept that popped up a year or two ago, the plumbing pipes with a horizontal crossbar that actually defies the principles of stabilization and is made of the wrong materials (steel vs pvc) to make sense. And those that build it seem very happy with it, although I have seen some examples of shots done with it that are possibly worse than handheld...

I think that once you attempt to build a rig with an arm and vest, it's a whole new ballgame and learning process, and unless one happens to have a Bridgeport in the garage, I don't think it would be called "easy".

The other side of the coin is that once you have built your device, you have to learn how to operate it. I've said it before, Cody has obviously spent the time honing his craft because the shots on his site demonstrate an impressive operating maturity.

External camera stabilizers have nothing in common with in-camera stabilization, where at the push of a button, camera shake is reduced or eliminated with almost no learning curve to the operator. Most take this for granted; as one who has been doing this long enough to have had initial experiences with the earlier forms of this technology, the mere fact that this feature is built into nearly all camcorders is still amazing to me. However, operating an external stabilizer is not a push-button affair; even with the best of gear, it takes lots of practice. If one's goal is to emulate the shots they see in the movies or on TV, it will likely take YEARS of practice to get to that level. I started with a really beat-up old rig and I don't feel that I pushed through into being a solid operator for about 3 years. With today's advancements in design, I might have been able to trim a year off that--who knows.

It's easier to build a stabilizer for personal use than one you intend to market as the one you market has to have a lot (and I do mean a lot) of extra work to make it real good and nice looking. Also you have to find all the suppliers for parts (no small task).

I'll bet Cody's plans are well thought out and work when put together correctly. The trick is "correctly". For instance, we have been working on just the sleeve around the bearing for a while now and found we have to be "really" precise in order to get it to be as linear as possible.

My suggestion in building a stabilizer from plans is you need to follow those plans very closely and take the time to do it right. If you need some help on the touchy parts, get it. We, who build stabilzers for sale can tell of all the things that can go wrong and probably did go wrong. It will save you hours and hours of frustration.

Tery

<<<-- Originally posted by Terry Thompson : It's easier to build a stabilizer for personal use than one you intend to market as the one you market has to have a lot (and I do mean a lot) of extra work to make it real good and nice looking. Also you have to find all the suppliers for parts (no small task). -->>>

I don't think so. I heard someone spent years and still not happy about diy stablizer rig.

Regards
Leigh

I think the idea is that one is less difficult than the other, but that neither would be considered easy.

I think that mechanically inclined = very long process but not to hard and not mechanically inclided would be very hard. The project requires a bunch of tools. If you would have to purchase all of the tools, it wouldn't be worth it. I have access to all the tools I will need.

My friends built one from Cody's book and it took them about 3 months of part time work. I would guess the hours to be around 100 to 120 hours. I guess the satisfaction of doing it themselves was worth the effort.

Glidecam will be selling the vest and arm, retails $1499. I don't know what the actual price will be but if you ad in the price of the sled, you are looking at approximately $1650. If you time is worth more than $14 hour, this project isn't worth your time. Personally, I like to build things myself. If it doesn't work, then I will buy a pre assembled one from Glidecam.

I purchased a glidecam 4000 pro sled with bodypod for $235, slightly used. I plan on selling the bodybod once my arm and vest are finished. Cody's plans have directions on building your own. For $235 - what I can sell the bodybod on ebay = approximately $135 for the glidecam. It cost's you about $70 to build your own sled.

I would assume if you could find a glidecam vest and arm for $1000 it would be a better buy than doing it yourself. Considering the cost of the arm and vest, in parts is around $150 to $200, not including any tools you have to buy plus your time.

Jon

The Glidecam 4000 usually goes new on ebay for around $375 and the 2000 for $275. Used it isn't a whole lot less so you got a real good deal.

So figure for a new Glidecam Smooth Shooter and Glidecam 4000 new (on ebay) you're into it a little less than $2000 with the shipping. Remember that the Smooth Shooter is a single articulated arm and not a dual. Single is good but dual is better in my experience. We built both to test out and only build the dual arm now.

Jon, you are right about the tools as there are a lot of tools need to build a good system and it really doesn't make sense to buy all the tooling to build just one stabilizer.

Did you find the bodypod useful? I bought one and only used it to take the weight away from my wrist when standing still. It wasn't helpful for moving shots as it doesn't have any "give". A tripod would have been much better.

Tery

I agree, the bodypod is worthless when compaired to an arm. I used it to hold the glidcam/camera. It is quite heavy! I would love to have it built already, but time is something I am lacking at the moment.


Jon

Would be nice to see your jorney to building your stabilizer. Don't forget send Charles some pics of the rig when it is done so he can put it up on HBS.

<<<-- Originally posted by Lars Gustav : Would be nice to see your jorney to building your stabilizer. Don't forget send Charles some pics of the rig when it is done so he can put it up on HBS. -->>>

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&postid=284856#post284856

Listed above is a link to my journey from beginning to end. I just started this week. I am sure it will take me a couple of weeks to finish. :)

Jon

Hey Jon, where did your thread go?
I was looking to see if you posted any pictures yet and it's gone to the Twilight Zone.
Do you have any pictures yet? How far along are you?

Tery