Hello people!

I'd like to see some footage done with the magiqcam rig by a talented operator. Anyone up for the challenge or does anyone know where such material could be found?

Thanks,

Klosse

Klosse

I don't know if you saw the Magiqcam demo but here is the web page.

http://www.magiqcam.com/demopage.html

I'm sure there are better examples of how well this works but I thought I would at least let you know about their own demo just in case.

What camera will you be using?

Hello!

Yeah I've checket out that one.. But somehow I don't really find it all too impressing.. I'd like to see something that would take my breath away.. Just to feel better about myself for putting out the $2000 (which I know isn't much money for this kind of equipment, but still... ).

I wil be using the DVX-100A mostly. I'm also wondering if it will fly the Aaton A-minima.. Anyone tried this?


Thanks,

Klosse

Klosse:

I have demoed the Magiqcam, and I feel comfortable in suggesting that it is on par with the other stabilizers in that price range and slightly above.

I don't have any footage shot with that rig to show you, but I would estimate that I could have achieved the footage on my demo reel (http://www.demoreelnetwork.com/chupap/index.shtml) with perhaps a 70% relative accuracy if I had used this rig vs my gear (which cost at least 50 times more). Hope that helps.

The DVX should work fine, although I think that adding a few pounds of weight to the camera (via accessories or a steel baseplate) would make it more stable. And the a-Minima would be fine also; the only caveat there is the side-to-side displacement of the film which would subtly alter your balance from the beginning to the end of a take.

I can bet that most of the less expensive stabilizers would look good with someone like Charles operating it. Like the saying goes...you can give someone a Steinway but that doesn't mean that they can play a concert. On the other hand, you can give an inexpensive stabilizer system to a professional and the footage will still look good (providing the stabilizer is half decent).

By the way Charles, I just returned from CES in Las Vegas where I wore and used my Indicam system for three days-seven hours each day-honest. I weighted it down a bit more with some extra weights and adjusted the gimbal on the post accordingly. With the new gimbal we made, the footage looked very good. I have learned a lot about gimbals and bearings etc. from this project. Boy there is still a lot more to learn.

I'm trying to figure out how to get some of my CES footage on this site in order for you and others to do that "critic thing". I can take it. Any suggestions as to codecs? I have Vegas Video 4 and am reading on this site about how to set up my output for the best results in quality and file size. I would love for it to stream like I have seen other clips do.

I'm looking into going to the Videomaker Expo in Pasadena next month (Feb). Are you anywhere near, Charles? If you are I could come by and let you check out my system for inclusion in your video. I think you might like it!

Terry

I'm not far from Pasadena, Terry. I'm sure we can work something out. I may even pop by the Expo to see what's up (I hear it's pretty small though). I'd like to see your setup.

<<<-- Originally posted by Charles Papert : Klosse:

I don't have any footage shot with that rig to show you, but I would estimate that I could have achieved the footage on my demo reel (http://www.demoreelnetwork.com/chupap/index.shtml) with perhaps a 70% relative accuracy if I had used this rig vs my gear (which cost at least 50 times more). Hope that helps.
-->>>

Hi Charles,

May I ask what is in your US$100,000 steadicam package? Just curious. 8)

Regards
Leigh

I'll answer that for him, Charles P. Leigh, Charles P. is a steadicam operator and his package includes(correct me if I'm wrong CP) Back-mounted vest by Klassen, Pro rig setup, including the pro arm, and many accessories that will make your mouth water just looking at it. His set-up cost more than 100,000 dollars. So, we're not talking pocket change. ;)

Yes indeed, that's what I do own!

Charles K., I'm about to swap out the base of my Pro 1 for a MK-V Nexxus base, so that I can use Anton Bauers and be able to configure the system for 24v film cameras (TB6 and 3 batts) all the way down to a DV setup (LCD monitor and single battery). Looking forward to moving away from the PRO chocolate bar batteries into something more standard also.

I've been seeing more video work of late, so this also gives me the opportunity to use the onsite batteries and save mine. For instance, I did some days on the currently-airing "Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Model Search" TV show; they had a zillion of the big Hytron batteries and I simply used one of theirs on a borrowed PRO Lite. Saved weight and didn't have to put my batteries through unnecessary use.

Hi Charles Papert, Charles King,

Thanks for the information

Regards
Leigh

No problem Leigh.Hey CP, Have you tried the new Alien yet? I would guess that now that you are getting the MK-v nexxus you would definately take advantage of it and it's new optonal ability.

BTW, it seems Howard' products have gain the number one spot of the stabilizer industry. I guess the title has been shifted ;) I met Howard about 2 years ao at the trade show in Amsterdam and he was a great guy to talk to.

Hi Charles:

I'm not getting the whole Nexxus, just the base. I'm keeping the 1.5" Pro post and everything above it for now. I've avoided spending any more $ on the rig in recent years (except for the Klaussen harness), and this is really addressing the functional need I have right now vs total performance. Howard's gimbal is really, really nice and the 2" posts are definitely taking over in popularity, but I'm keeping the equipment purchases on the d.l. as much as possible as I'm DP'ing and directing more now.

Yes, I have tried the Alien, a few times. It's a really interesting piece of gear, very different to operate and would have quite a learning curve. For other readers of this thread, the Alien allows the rig to be rotated sideways while keeping the camera and monitor leveled, meaning you can fly horizontally, or flip the rig from high to low mode during a shot!

I'm not moving my rig towards a Nexus for future integration, it's just that I like that battery management system the best out of everything out there. Greg Bubb's Ultimate rig is pretty popular too. I would say that it's a fairly split race these days in terms of which rig is the #1.

Thanks for the info CP. One thing though. When will we mere mortals get to see this famous and talked about Alien?

BTW, I'll be getting my carbon 1,5" post which can extend at least 1,9m. Together with that, a brand new machined gimbal. Now, I just waiting for my machinist to finish my arm. I can send you the rough CAD draeing and some pics if you like.

Hello,

Thanks for all the info everyone!
I'm placing an order for a magiqcam ;)

Charles P.: Your reel is ofcourse very impressing :) How did you do that one shot on Buffy the vampire slayer where you fly over that fence (without hitting the fence with the monitor)? Now that's cool. Also doing the stuff you do without casting "rig-shadows" on the talent and set is quite impressing and is very enjoyable to watch. Do you as an operator have the DP light the scenes in a special way so that you can move around freely or do you simply adapt to the way a set is lit, as in avoiding being at certain spots at certain times and so on?


-Klosse

Klosse:

Some very perceptive questions.

The shot from "Buffy" was something I came up with that day. We were shooting on the Universal back lot, on the New York street set, which had numerous stairwells that led down to basement apartments. I thought it would be interesting to start down one of those stairwells and move up to meet the actor as we crossed the street together. I also saw that by being panned slightly to the left as I came up the stairs, it would appear that I would be flying over the railing when in fact the lens simply scraped past the side of it.

As far as avoiding shadows, that is always a concern. Generally, once the shot is designed in rehearsal the DP will be lighting with that move in mind and I will be "walking the set" to make sure that there aren't any unforeseen problems such as shadows and reflections. Sometimes it is unavoidable that the camera has to pass by a light source that would shadow the actor; in those circumstances, a special flag or silk is set for the exact moment that will obscure the shadow. To be a good operator is to anticipate these sort of things with the stand-ins so that once the actors return to the set, you don't have to keep them waiting while you solve the problem. Of course, sometimes the action will evolve so that this is unavoidable.

The real trick, and this is something that I recomment to you and all other rigflyers, is to walk the shot WITHOUT THE CAMERA, keeping a sharp eye out for "bogies" (undesirable elements in the shot). This way you can pick up on things that won't be evident on the little LCD monitor, especially once you are wearing the rig. Be aware of where the lights are and what to look for, and stop the actors or stand-ins at critical points to make sure that your shadow is not playing across them. If there is going to be a boom man or safety grip or camera assistant or (especially!) director walking alongside you, do a rehearsal with the whole troops in position to make sure that no-one else is throwing shadows also. Don't let yourself get rushed into putting the rig up for rehearals before everything is ready! You'll waste valuable energy, and likely miss the aforementioned bogeys.

O.K. Charles, I just had to add this last post to my "Charles Papert" document of Steadicam gems. I find it amazing that you have the time to answer these posts and not only answer them but also elaborate and teach. I haven't met you but you have my respect for all the good you have done here in the DV Info Net community.

My biggest problem is trusting my rig to stay level while moving. I have the feeling that I must do something with my control hand rather than letting the rig and fine balance do most of the work. On many of my shots in Las Vegas I flew my camera without the use of my control hand at all and the shots looked better. The hardest part of the whole thing is, of couse, changing directions or stopping while getting footage. There is a fine line to control and over control which is becomming more evident the longer I shoot. Any thought on this?

Thanks,

Terry

Ah, Grasshopper, you have entered a new level of understanding!

You've nailed it, actually very concisely. Trusting the rig is definitely the right idea. Virtually everyone who is new to operating will over-control the rig, use too much force on the post. Over time, the hand-eye-brain feedback will develop an intricate communication which starts something like this:

Eye: shot looks good and level.
Brain: Everything's fine.
Hand: Well, then I'll grip a little harder then.
Eye: Woah! Starting to lose level and we're drifting left...
Brain: Compensate!
Hand: No problem, I'll just grip even harder and pan it back right.
Eye: Too far to the right!
Brain: Pull out! Abort! Mayday!
Hand: I'm just hanging on tight till someone tells me what the hell to do!

And eventually becomes this:

Eye: shot looks good and level.
Brain: looking good.
Hand: I'll stay loose, barely touching the rig at all.
Eye: tiny little drift to the right.
Brain: watch that...
Hand: miniscule correction for a fraction of a second, then I'm loose as a goose again.
Eye: we're back.
Brain: we're about to take a corner. Remember how to do this? The rig will want to swing out...
Hand: ...I know, I know, I'll compensate the other direction.
Brain: start panning now.
Hand: Panning.
Eye: we're starting to lose level in the middle of the turn.
Brain: Don't overcompensate!
Hand: gotcha.
Brain: the straightaway is coming up. Make sure to lighten up as soon as we hit it.
Eye: OK, we've panned far enough.
Brain: cut the pan! lighten up!
Hand: done.
Brain: we got through that one! Nice job fellas, see you at the bar.


With all credit due to the Woody Allen movie "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex"; that's basically how it goes. It's a subtle series of checks and balances that takes a long time to dial in.

If one was to put a pressure-sensing meter on the post of an experienced operator, they would see a constantly-evolving parade of values. The idea that you had, Terry, of not using your control hand at all is actually correct in theory. You just don't want to have it dangling at your side; that's too far away. Better to have it in position on the post, just with the fingers barely making contact or not at all for those periods where no help is needed. As soon as help is needed (during any period of acceleration, deceleration, direction of travel or stops/starts) you can instantly apply the appropriate force (which, with a small rig, is still as little as you possibly can and still have an effect).

One thing worth mentioning is that the axiom of a rig moving in a straight line at constant speed not needing any operator control is only true if your gimbal works properly. If there is any friction or non-linearity present, it will likely cause the rig to start panning off in one direction or another. This will require a certain amount of constant force (again, as light as possible) to overcome. This is why operators who start with older or cheaper rigs and then move up to the creme de la creme are amazed at how "free" a good gimbal feels, and tend to over-compensate for things that no longer need compensating. Certainly happened to me when switching from a 3A gimbal to a PRO gimbal.

Charles,

Not only can you operate a Steadicam very well, but you can explain it like noone else I know. Hey, you should make a training tape or something. FMI (For My Information) what will your video contain? I'm hoping it will have all the tips and tricks you have explained on this site as well as on other sites but in visual form. Another thought...If you want to show someone who does everything wrong, I'm available. I working on changing that to "someone who "has done" everything wrong".

Since I asked you can toot you own horn...put in a plug... whatever...

Terry

Thanks for all of the kind words, Terry.

Yes, my tape will include all of the basic things I've shared here and a lot more, and obviously in visual form. I've got some nifty things planned that will take advantage of the "multiple angle" feature on DVD players.

Unfortunatley that project is taking the back seat at the moment to a short film that I am putting together. I've just helped a filmmaker friend get his short to Sundance; next year it's my turn! Plus I start a feature in February. But hopefully, after that I can get the bloody instructional video in the can...stay tuned!

chas

charles,

"This is why operators who start with older or cheaper rigs and then move up to the creme de la creme are amazed at how "free" a good gimbal feels, and tend to over-compensate for things that no longer need compensating."

i agree totally. but what if the person have only use the real thing and switch to a cheaper rig? its totally a different encounter. well, i'm refering to myself. i have rented and used the efp for a few of my earlier projects (in total less then 40 hours of flying), so i don't consider myself any good. when i first got my magiqcam, i was really very dissapointed with it performance and time it take to setup. the learning curve compare to efp is so much different.

i've received the new sled from john and have tried it out once. the new adjustable gimbal enable me to use less weight at the bottom and now i don't have to set the sled at the maximum lenght. the not so good thing is, it very difficult to adjust the sliding gimbal on my own as both the top and bottom will move and mostly in different directions. i need to have my assistance holding on to the bottom of the sled when i loosen the gimbal and this is done with the sled in horizontal position. i would assume lighter camera shouldn't have this problem.

i still have not solve the bouncing effect yet. i still think the arm is not build for camera weight of 6 kg.

ed

Ed:

Not sure about the gimbal issue you are presenting...

>.both the top and bottom will move and mostly in different directions.>>

top and bottom of what exactly? Doesn't the gimbal just slide up and down the post...? Haven't seen the new design yet.

bouncing effect...6kg (13 lbs as I see it) is a good heft, but a more completely loaded arm should show less bouncing than with a light load. As long as the arm has enough adjustment to carry the load, it should be fine.

charles,

unlike steadicam, the magiqcam sled post does not have a "guide track". so when the sliding gimbal is loosen for adjustment, the top - camera, and the bottom - battery and monitor will turn either to the left or right. i can only hold-on to either the top or the bottom with one hand and the other on the tightening knob. my assistance will hold-on to the other end which i'm not able to hold. i hope you get what i mean.

as for the arm, the spring adjustment is almost to the max. my test is to run on the spot with the shot frame at a light stand. the result, the light stand look bouncing. i've tried loosening it but than two thing happen. first thing i notice is the spring start to have noise. second, it take alot of effort to rise the rig. i'm still working on this part.

also, guess what? the new sled beleve it or not, is faulty. don't know its my luck or what. i just realise that one of the screw on the gimbal was loose. on closer inspection i saw that the hole drill to the gimbal is bigger then the screw itself. thank goodness, my camera did not drop. really giving up hope on this rig. anyway, i'll have to wait for john reply.

charles, any advice on how to adjust to the arm to it best?

ed

Ed:

The general rule of thumb is that the two sections of the arm should hang slightly below horizontal.

The running test is a good one, but I would have to check your form to make sure where the problem lies exactly. The Magiqcam arm is not going to have the isolation of an EFP arm, but it is also 1/20th the price.

I guess I'm not understanding how the gimbal adjusts. Apparently it doesn't slide up and down the pole; it involves two telescoping components (top and bottom of the rig...?) I'd have to see a picture.

you are right on my expectation of the rig. i keep reminding myself on the among of money i've spend compare to buying a real set. but i was under the impression that it should work on the most fundemendal thing. anyway, guess its just my luck getting something that does not work.

the sled post, yes you are right. its in three part - top, gimbal and bottom. i'll have some pics posted next week. schedule abit tight this week

ed

I think titanium spring will perform better than normal spring in the arm.

Here is a link for reference.

http://www.coilspring.com/performance/why_titanium/

Regards
Leigh

<<<-- Originally posted by Leigh Wanstead : I think titanium spring will perform better than normal spring in the arm.

Here is a link for reference.

http://www.coilspring.com/performance/why_titanium/

Regards
Leigh -->>>


Not really. It has nothing to do with the operations of the rig, if that is what you thought. In terms of durability and strength- yes

Magigcam looks impressived, but wow, Charles Papert's demo reel is pretty amazing.

I hope someday I'll be able to shoot like you, or have someone like you shooting for me!

My 'handycam' system at the mo consists of a shoulder support that cost me $40... :)

Hi all, my Magiqcam rig has XL1 and a small lead acid battery for power (well not so small at the moment), have spent many hours practicing with the rig now about to start work. had to ovecome 'binding' of the lower arm adjustment system. gimbal bolts being loose, vest straps tearing out and most of all 'overcontrol' of the whole rig.

Now I am comfortable wearing the rig, work continually on keeping control light but in step with the shot.

Overall I am very content with Magiqcam, it's not 'top shelf', but is a 'great' rig for the dollars, it really flies, so it lacks some of the finer points available in expensive rigs but I'm happy.

The gimbal adjustment can be achieved by griping the post above the gimbal, loosen the gimbal nut, then either grip harder (spreading the hand) to raise the post, or the other way around to lower post.

Have fun guys
Trevor Crump

here are some photo of the new magiqcam sled with moving gimbal. http://visualline.7p.com/magiqcam_new_sled.html
let me know if you need any other view of the sled.

ed

Ed:

Regarding the new Magiqcam gimbal, which, according to your picture (http://visualline.7p.com/magiqcam_new_sled.html), now functions similarly to the standard tool-free gimbals available on full size rigs, I'm continuing to not understand the issue you are having. The action of loosening and moving the gimbal (always with the rig horizontally, folks) only involves that component and the center post; the camera and battery/monitor assemblies should not move relative to each other as a result. The lower telescoping adjustment on the post should be tied down whenever adjusting the gimbal to prevent this. Position the rig with the lens facing straight down or up during balancing.

Use one hand to loosen the gimbal handle and the other to hold the post in the horizontal position. Tighten the gimbal, and test the drop time. Adjust as necessary. If you get really slick at this, you can allow the rig to fall just a few degrees with a loose gimbal to judge your drop (be VERY careful as letting it drop too far with the gimbal not tightened down will result in it jamming up to the stage suddenly and possibly catching your fingers).

charles,

i was refering to the post not having a "guide" rail so that my top and bottom should always be parallel. sorry if i explain it wrongly.

anyway, my problem with the rig don't seem to be getting any better. it seems that john knowingly send me another faulty gimbal. in his reply, he ask me to fix it myself with some epoxy. well, the original epoxy on the gimbal didn't work as it turn into dust. any suggestion to fixing this problem?

ed

here is the link to some photos of my magiqcam faulty gimbal. http://visualline.7p.com/magiqcam_new_gimbal_faulty.html
i only notice the problem on the second flying the rig and the screw nearly drop out. lucky for me the rig did not break.

ed

Boy Ed. You seemed to be very unlucky, man. You've been having problem since day one. I feel for you. The only way I can see fixing that is by redrilling thát hole with a new dimension thread. That also means making the holes larger and everything else to fit the new hole.

That looks like a M5 thread.

There are such items as 'thread worms' or 'coils, used to renew threads that have been stripped, try engineering places and one should be able to tell you where to find these.

Trevor

Ed:

It's been years since I've operated an EFP, so I don't remember if that particular rig had a guide rail or groove in the post, but none of the current high-end rigs have such a feature. You should be able to adjust the gimbal to balance without having an assistant hold on to the sled.

Ed,

First of all, thanks for the pictures. They do say a thousand words. I also enjoy reading your posts.

As Trevor said, there are thread repair kits called helicoils (I think that is the correct spelling) that allow you to drill out to the next larger size, tap, and then insert the helicoil that will accept the origonal bolt. I remember having to do this on my 55 VW bug a number of years ago.

I wondering how the bolt strips the thread. Is the stress that great on it? I suppose the collar is aluminum as is mine but your system handles a much heavier sled. If I had to support a heavy weighted system I would probably make the collar from steel and not aluminum.

Here is a web site I found selling helicoil kits.
http://www.jcsonlinetoolshed.com/section.php/342/0
Maybe it can help.

Terry

thanks for the help. will try to source for this helicoils here locally. my only worry is when drilling the hole, the alignment part that is.
will let you guy know what happen.

as for my luck, really not that good. got one camera ccd burn by a laser and now this. really don't give me much confident buying home made stuff from the net again.

charles p, thanks for the help. will try out your advice once the gimbal is fix.

ed

terry,

forgot to answer your questions. sorry. the ring holding the gimbal is made from aluminium. as for the thread strip, its not so much of the stress as it was advertised to be able to fly a 15 or 16lb camera. i guess the manufacturer really "screw up" and thought it would be okay for him to just fix it with some epoxy.

ed

Just a sugestion, maybe drill and tap 2 new holes 90 deg from the originals...!
I notice a change of bolt from your to mine, ours has a machine bolt with no step in it, maybe you can swing over to this setup, although yours must have diferent bearings.

Trevor

Ed,

I have to think that John didn't send you a bad gimbal on purpose. I've talked with him a few times and he seem to be on the "up and up". It;s sad that you have had problems with your system in that you are so far away from the U.S..

The suggestion about redrilling 90 degrees from the first set is a good idea if you can get the sleeve off the bearing. It would be harder to get a deep enough hole unless it was milled. See is John will send you another bearing and sleeve and when you receive it send the bad one back.

My machinest showed me some taps and helicoils. The helicoils look like short springs that fit into the hole.

I might consider trying a few helicoils out some of my sleeves to see how they work out. I haven't had any problems with holes stripping out so I don't know if I will need them though.

Terry

hi terry,

maybe he didn't send it on purpose but his earlier reply sure sounded like he know what was wrong with it and what i should do with it. and i doubt he will send me anymore new part. in business, its said to be able to end good is to be able to end the problem fast. anyway, have not heard from him after my last two mail. always stress me out just communicating with him over the past year. i will try the helicoil, if and when i find one here locally. thanks anyway:0)

ed

Ed,

Can you get many of the parts you might need in Malaysia or do you have to send away for them? I can look around for the helicoils when I look for them for my reg if you would like. I would need to know the bolt thread such as 1/4 x 20.

Terry

should be able to find one over here. just a matter of time. i don't think i'll be using the rig anymore. most probably continue to rent the efp set. anyway, thanks for the offer.

ed