I'm about to buy a lanc zoom controller for my Sony PD170, and have read many threads in this forum with useful info. Most of the discussion seems to focus on the relative merits of VZ as opposed to Zoe, with little discussion of the Bogen 523. Can anyone comment on the pros/cons of the Bogen 523 vs. the Varizoom Pro-L or VZ Rock? Thanks for all the help!

I have the pro-L and have been happy with it. I chose this model since it has a dial where you can preset the desired zoom speed. Then when you press the rocker switch it will hold that speed. My goal was to get the slowest and most consistent zooms possible, and it does that very well.

It is very big and heavy though, and can throw your camera off balance on the tripod if you can't compensate enough with a sliding plate. The big handle is not removable, and the clamp is designed for a rather thick pan handle. This works fine on my Bogen 501 head because the pan handle actually comes apart in the middle and it's large in diameter. But I use a Miller DS-5 now which has a thinner handle with a non-removable grip. My solution was to pull the pan handle off the tripod when using the Pro-L and replace it with a shorter piece of aluminum tubing. I flipped the clamp plate on the Pro-L (with the grooved side facing outwards) to make it bite down tight on the tubing.

When I got the Pro-L a couple years ago it was the only one I could find that had a dial for presetting a constant zoom speed. Since then Zoe has come out with a new model that also features this. It looks very nice, although I think it's rather expensive.

Thanks Boyd. The Bogen 523 specs state that it has 3 presets for speed control, rather than a dial. That would be fine for me. I'm wondering if anyone has had the opportunity to compare the Bogen 523 to the VZ models.

I have tested all the models you are looking at, Len, and the Varizoom isn't even in the running, IMHO. The real contest is between the Bogen and Zoe. The Varizoom Rock is an absolute rip-off of the Zoe without the same attention to detail. Also note that in the fine print Varizoom warns that using their controller in damp weather conditions may void the warranty and could damage your camera. The Zoe makes a point that they are weather proof. Also, the Zoe comes with a two year warranty and I believe the Varizoom products are only one year. But the Zoe (and possibly the Bogen) will cost more money, partly due to the sinking dollar. Be sure to read Ken Tenaka's review of the Zoe on this forum.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Thanks Wayne. Since you feel that the "real contest is between the Bogen and the Zoe" and you have tested both, can you comment as to the differences/pros and cons between the two? Thanks for any input, I have to decide soon.

hi guys

canon zr1000 has been the best I have used. different zoom speeds and osd control

175.99 at B&H

Len, I don't want to sound like a shill for Zoe, so I am going to leave it up to you. I don't think you will be disappointed with either unit, so, maybe go with the best price you can get. I have a special place in my heart for the Zoe, because they were the first company to really come out with a "pro-feel" (my comment) in a dv camera controller. But I have nothing bad to say about the Bogen/Manfrotto. BTW, I am referring to the small unit, not the one that attaches to the butt of a panhandle. More versatility with the small unit.

Harish. I used to own the Canon ZR1000, and I think it is a fine controller for the money, but it simply is not in the class with the more expensive Zoe and Bogen/Manfrotto controllers.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Len,
Although I sometimes think I've tested and/or owned just about every worthwhile LANC controller on the planet the Bogen is one that I've never used. Sorry I can't help you on that model.

I can really only offer you three points that may be of value to you in your decision process.

First, realize that the functionality of all LANC controllers are governed by the LANC communications protocol. LANC is actually a language whose command stream could be printed with the appropriate equipment. The best controllers feature controls and firmware that implement the broadest and finest features that LANC offers. The cheaper controllers more greatly restrict LANC's potential. For example, a controller that implements only three fixed speeds of zoom control is quite restrictive, as LANC offers commands that would allow a fairly fine gradient of speeds (depending on the capabilities of the lens' zoom servo motor).

Second, since you are using a Sony camera you will not have to be concerned about controller functionality (something that can concern Canon owners). Sony -owns- the LANC protocol and its cameras generally obey LANC command streams with the utmost fidelity possible.

Third, and perhaps most important, the best controller for you might very well be the one that feels best to your hand. I know that we often cite this with respect to camera selection. But it's even truer with respect to controllers. Remember, you will rarely actually see the thing while you're using it. You'll be operating it blindly with one hand. I can tell you that one of the most functionally rich controllers I've used never felt natural to my hand. I could just not get used to it and often misfired functions while fumbling with its controls. The best controllers feature thoughtful ergonomic designs that become intuitive and comfortable to use after a short initiation period. Keep this in mind as you look at the designs of the models you're considering.

Have fun with your search!

Thanks Ken, that's good advice (as usual for your posts). I will likely go for the Bogen since I was able to try it in the store, and it felt very comfortable to my hand. Thanks again to everyone who replied, I appreciate the willingness to share info and help out.

Bogen has recently released a PRO version of its two Sony LANC controllers. If you have a Sony PD170 I would suggest you get one of those rather than the previous models. The new one supports the PD170s push auto function meaning you can have the camera in manual focus mode, and by pushing the push auto button on the LANC it will momentarily auto focus then return to manual focus (just like pressing the same named button on the PD170). The button replaces the Display button of the non-Pro Bogan controllers. Currently many dealers do not know about the new models, and they are not listed on the Bogen WEB site yet. You can call Bogen and tech support has information. The B&H WEB site does have picture of the new controllers.

I tried the Canon LANC controller and returned it. It seemed to me that it did not implement the slowest speeds of the LANC protocol. The LANC protocol has 8 speeds, and the Canon seems to support only 5 speeds.

-Tony

Thanks, Tony, I will look into that. What do you feel is the biggest advantage of the "push auto" feature. I'm not sure what situations would call for it.

I had ordered the 523Pro, listed on B&H website for $329.95, but I see no reference to the feature you mention. Is that the model you are referring to?

"Push Auto" (focus) is a very handy facility, indeed. It enables you to maintain manual focus mode (thus preventing the lens from being fooled into shifting focus), while still taking periodic advantage of the camera's auto-focus facility. By occasionally pressing the Push Auto button you can subtly have the camera readjust its focus as your main subject's position changes.

Very handy function to have on a camera (not all do) and to have as an extended function on a controller connected to a camera with the function.

FYI, the Zoe-DVL also supports the "push-auto" function.

I have the Bogen 523PRO on order (it is the larger handle version). The clamp on 521PRO also supports the push auto. Wayne will correct me if I'm wrong, before Bogen released these models in January 2005 the Zoe was the only LANC controller that supported push auto. However, I believe this functionality is on a button that does another function as well, so to get the push auto feature you have to hold the button for a second or so. I felt that having a dedicated button as on the Bogens is preferable, I also thought I would like the design of the handle 523 better even if it is less flexible (can't attach to alternative places).

The Bogen numbering is rather confusing. The description of the original 521 and 523 start by saying they are Pro controllers. So some online sites list the old 521/523 as 521/523PRO even though they are not the new real PRO models:-(

I looked on the B&H web site last week and they were listing both the PRO and the non-PRO 523. They only appear to have the PRO version listed now so maybe they sold the older model out. I would still give them a call to double check but I the $329 price was for the PRO model.

B&H is still listing both versions of the 521 and if you click on the "enlarge image" for them you can see that the focus in/out of the 521 have been replaced by the push auto and (I think) display functions. The 523 has more buttons so the 523PRO still has focus in/out in the same place as before, and gives up the display (which I think toggles the display data on the external video output signal) function in the (I think) top right for the push auto function. The B&H photo is not large enough to see and Bogen does not have the info on their site yet.

-Tony

Some clarification to our LANC controller models:

523PRO replaces the now discontinued 523. The difference is the dedicated push AF button (which replaced the 'display' button in the right-hand corner).

The letters 'PRO' are part of the model number.

521 and 521PRO co-exist in our range, with the 521 model not having as many features as the 521PRO model. the following features exist on the 521PRO:

- 2 zoom speed functions
- Progressive and Fixed Zoom speeds
- Push AF button
- Power on/off
- Rec button
- Invertable zoom wheel direction
- Zoom wheel can be changed to act as a focus wheel


Marc Schotland
Manfrotto

Thanks for the info Marc. I just received the 523Pro today with a Vinten Vision 3 head, but I can't figure out how to mount the Bogen arm on the Vinten Head. The Vinten arm does not seem to be removable from its head mount attachment. Thanks for any help!

Does anyone have any detailed information on the Lanc spec? I'm doing some testing right now, and have found that the specs I've found online are a little outdated, and generalized, and don't completely jibe with what I'm getting in my tests. It would be great to find out more about specifically how sony has implemented lanc control in the fx1, beyond the basic, zoom, focus and record abilities. I'm curious if lanc can be used to do iris and shot transition functions on this camera.

A question for Mr. Schotland. Will the push-auto-focus feature work with the Canon XL1S? I currently use the 521 controller and like it a lot, but definately have need of the new feature.

No, the Push AF feature will not work on the Canon XL1S (and XL2) as this feature is unfortunately not linked into the LANC protocol.

Marc Schotland
Manfrotto

After browsing through this thread, there are one or two points I'd like to make here regarding Wayne Orr's comment:

<< I have tested all the models you are looking at, Len, and the Varizoom isn't even in the running, IMHO. The real contest is between the Bogen and Zoe. The Varizoom Rock is an absolute rip-off of the Zoe without the same attention to detail. >>

The fact of the matter is that the VariZoom Rock is simply a modified VZ Stealth, which came *before* the Zoe, so it really can't be called a rip-off. Although I have to applaud Wayne's diligence in his persistant anti-VariZoom campaign, I would like to point out there are literally thousands of professional shooters who choose VariZoom over all other competing controllers. In fact I can probably produce an S.O.C. member equal to Wayne's own stature who would endorse VariZoom over Zoe (although I doubt I could get anybody to post about it as much as he does).

Point is, they're all good -- VariZoom, Zoe and Bogen are all at the top of the game. Wayne may not feel that way, but that's his own opinion, which he's certainly entitled to. However, I would firmly urge anyone who is considering one of these controllers to take any opinion with a grain of salt. Do yourself a favor if at all possible, try before you buy. Outside of a major metropolitan area, this is not always easy, but you also have the resources of this site at your disposal. I have reviews on the site already, and if need be, I can arrange for a professional shooter -- how about an S.O.C. member, in fact -- to prepare an impartial and unbiased review of all three brands. In fact, the more I'm thinking about that idea, the more I like it.

I'm the original poster boy for these controllers -- they're the single most useful tool you can own as a DV camera operator. Let me tell you in no uncertain terms, the VariZoom / Zoe / Bogen brands are as equal with each other as Ford / Dodge / Chevy. There are cheaper controller brands out there, but these three are at the top of the market. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. They have their various differences but all three are most definitely "in the running."

And I can say that not only because VariZoom is one of our site sponsors, but so is 16x9 Inc. (the U.S. distributor for Zoe). So I have no strong feelings one way or the other. And I'm working at getting Bogen onboard as well.

;-)

Hope this helps,

This is Tom McKay, president of VariZoom, and I have created a new thread titled "Varizoom vs. Zoe or Wayne Orr" in the same category. It is a response to Wayne Orr's posts about VariZoom in this and other forums.

Just a couple of points by way of reply to Chris:

"The fact of the matter is that the VariZoom Rock is simply a modified VZ Stealth, which came *before* the Zoe, so it really can't be called a rip-off."

The only thing the Stealth and the Rock have in common is their small size. A search of this site will find a number of posts complaining about the Stealth. The "push/pull" control was a bad design that should never have been brought to market, and Varizoom obviously tried to remedy the situation with the release of the Rock, which came out about a year after the Zoe was introduced in this country. My review of the original Zoe was published in December of 2002, and the first press release from Varizoom announcing the arrival of the Rock was published in October of 2003, little more than a year after Chris Hurd wrote a glowing review of the Stealth. If the Stealth was such a hot item, why was Varizoom releasing a "new" small sized controller little more than a year later? And BTW, the Zoe had been available in Europe before my review, possibly even before the Stealth.

Before I discovered the Zoe, I had rented the top of the line Varizoom for a shoot in Las Vegas. I was very disappointed with the unit for a number of reasons, which I forwarded to Varizoom for coment. The reply I received did not address my complaints, but rather informed me, much as Chris has, that there are many satisfied professional users of Varizoom products, and further, that none other than Steven Soderburg himself has chosen the Varizoom to be the controller on the Canon XL1 for the filming of his new movie! Puh-leeze. Do I actually believe that Soderburg tested various controllers before selecting the Varizoom unit? No, I do not.

Do I have an anti-Varizoom bias? Nothing would please me more than to say, "Buy American!" But that simply is not an option when I cannot endorse the American company's product with genuine enthusiasm. But, as I have always suggested, this is MY opinion, based on my experience.

"I have reviews on the site already, and if need be, I can arrange for a professional shooter -- how about an S.O.C. member, in fact -- to prepare an impartial and unbiased review of all three brands. In fact, the more I'm thinking about that idea, the more I like it."

Do I gather, Chris, that the Italics on "impartial and unbiased" indicate that you believe I have not been impartial and unbiased? Whatever. I welcome the shoot out. If you read my original review of the Zoe from 2002, you will find that I actually considered such a shoot out:
"Originally I thought of actually staging a shoot out, having various controllers available for a number of professional camera operators to try out. In a renewed sense of fairness, I have abandoned this idea, since it would yield only some initial reactions, and long term use might give a different impression." (http://tinyurl.com/4ctfn)

But you are welcome to stage any event you like. Just try to find members who are familiar with zoom controllers. A lot of the members of the SOC are film shooters who have assistants when they work on film cameras. And again, a short test will only yield an initial impression.

As you indicated, it is best for buyers to personally try out any expensive gear they will be purchasing. Actually, the very best situation would be to rent a unit and try it on an actual shoot. Of course, this isn't always possible, so please buy from a reputable dealer and be certain of your rights regarding returns. And always pay with a credit card, like AmEx to cover your butt.

But again, that's just my opinion.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Upon re-reading my original post in this thread, I have realized I should not have used the phrase, " Varizoom isn't even in the running, IMHO." Certainly Varizoom is in the running when looking for a zoom controller; they are a viable company that has many satisfied customers.

Thank you.

Wayne Orr