Here is a review I did of the Steadicam flyer if anyone is interested. I also did a 20 min video( I think it was 20 min) of me shooting the rig as well as flying the rig but I will post that when my partner gets back from England, next week. I know some of you would rather see Charles P. reviewing it but I thought you would also like to see it from a normal person's point of view.

So I hope you enjoy this review:

Steadicam Flyer Review (http://homebuiltstabilizers.com/Thesteadicamflyerreview.pdf)

Please right click and save the link to your desk top.

Can someone tell me how to make a link active in post. For some stupid reason I forgot.

I wish the mods would make the syntax for links available on the posting page....

[ url = (link) ] text goes here [/ url ]

remove all the blanks.

Thanks John.

thanks for the review, can't wait to see the video :) whilst you wish you had a heavier cam on you, i'm glad you stuck with the 170, as i own the 150 and its always nice to see comparable equipment used in reviews :)

now to go off and scare myself silly with the RRP :)

*gulp* yep that is a lot of money! :D

<<<-- Originally posted by James Connors : thanks for the review, can't wait to see the video :) whilst you wish you had a heavier cam on you, i'm glad you stuck with the 170, as i own the 150 and its always nice to see comparable equipment used in reviews :)

now to go off and scare myself silly with the RRP :)

*gulp* yep that is a lot of money! :D -->>>

No problem. Though I had minimum weight, it still flew pretty well.

Nice article Charles! You made good points.

I didn't realize the bottom battery mount was a dummy, I thought it was wired in parallel. That's a shame. I guess you can consider it a carry-along spare battery, though. The slick thing to do would be to wire it up and install a switch so that when the first battery threatens to go down, you just switch to the second.

Perhaps it might be worth mentioning to our gentle readers that the main reason the 2-axis socket block is so wonderful an addition is that for the first time, users of smaller stabilizers are able to perfectly trim out the angle of the arm, which allows the operator to stand comfortably and have the rig simply float in front of them. Nearly all rigs without this have a tendency to want to fly away from the operator, requiring force to rein them in which can lead to fatigue, bad form etc. If you look at most pictures of folks wearing lightweight stabilizers, check out the last vertical upright of the arm before the gimbal. It should be straight up and down; chances are it will actually be leaning at a significant angle towards the rig. That means the operator in question is having to hold it in place or it would shoot out away from them. The Flyer allows you to manage this tendency (generally caused by torque within the components of the arm and vest) by offsetting the angle in the other direction. It may be worth mentioning that the six screws that attach the socket block assembly to the vest are compatible with all full-size front-mounted vests, meaning that the rig has also been designed with pros in mind (an incredible running rig with a superlightweight [http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.steadicam.ch/data/thumbnails/11/235_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.steadicam.ch/details.php%3Fimage_id%3D1360&h=82&w=119&sz=3&tbnid=Jll6hrACPTQJ:&tbnh=57&tbnw=83&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Darri%2B235%2Bsteadicam%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN]35mm system or HD system (http://www.kinetta.com/home.php).


p.s., Charles, do you really wear gloves that heavy for exterior operating? I know it gets cold in Sweden but...! It's been a few years since I had to deal with serious cold weather work (thankfully), but I used to use a lightweight, close-fitting glove coupled with a convertible mitten whose top hinges on and off, so I could warm up between takes.

Thanks CP. Not really. It just happens it was the only pair of gloves I had at the time. I had travelled long to test out that rig and had forgotten my other ones at home. It was really cold that day so I wasn't going to be without one, regardless of the thickness.

Nice review Charles. I wa wondering how thick the springs are? They look pretty thick.

Thanks Lars. The spring has a 5mm thick thread. A coincident considering I have the exact same spring specs. Not to get of the subject here, but if the spring within the flyer was at a greater diagonal, which will make the triangle steep, then it would carry more load than the specified max camera weight for the flyer.

Now I'm getting a little technical here but as I explained to the guys on HBS I will be writing up a more detail article on the specs for those HBS members. It will have much more up close detail pics and I will explain why.

Now the reason why they used a heavier spring instead of a lighter one, which would have sufice, is because of how the sharp angle of the triangle of the design is configured within the arm. Confused?! Well, lets just say, the flyer design is closer to that of the pro GPI arm than anything else.

<<<-- Originally posted by Charles King : lets just say, the flyer design is closer to that of the pro GPI arm than anything else. -->>>

Huh, that's interesting Charles. I would have thought that it more resembles the Master/Ultra arm with the iso-elastic adjustment for weight than the compressed-spring canister design of the PRO? As I've said before, I'm not a big expert on the mechanics of the different arms, although I've owned a few differerent ones; just never bothered to take 'em apart!

Never took it apart it's just understanding the geomery of the design. EVerything is based on triangles in all steadicam and non steadicam arms. When I said it resemble the pro arm I meant in it's pure technical design form. Like the example I gave about the spring.
The spring system is almost horizontal to the arm in it's initial position but what the eye does not see is the triangle that the spring system form when calculating the corrolations between the lower arm, where the spring is attached to the lower axel and finally to the spring adjuster.

See here (http://homebuiltstabilizers.com/springexample.JPG) Notice the red lines.

Interesting stuff. I'll have to check out your detail article when you are done. Thanks for the info. Again, great review.

wow--after all this time, I'm finally learning how the isoelastic arm works! Thanks CK.

No problem Charles. One thing to add. When the spring is adjusted it the steepness of the triangle changes especially if being pulled back, like in the case of the flyer.

But it has lot more to do with everything else; arm specs and spring specs.

Thanks Lars.

Great review charles!

A couple of notes that i picked up...

First off you mentioned the "Manfrotto" mounts on the bottom of the sled.. is that a typo? (shoudl be Anton Bauer Mounts...?)

The flyer arm is iso elastic.. and no arm will ever stay where it is put unless it has friction to hold it there (which you said is bad ;-) ) A heavier rig woudl really help.. Why it's only 1/3rd up is all part of the trick.
the bigger arms use 3 springs, because of the spring to lifting ration shoudl be one 3rd.. but instead of using 3 springs to go across the whole diaganol, just use one spring and only go up a 3rd of the way! Aha!
(The Provid arm that uses only one spring has a cam in the connection to the cable to reduce the effiency by one 3rd to get the iso elasticy - which also adds oodles of friction. Ugh.

And yeah, the side ot side adjustment is difficult in flight.. but that's becuase with the rig in flight it is purtting preasure on the threads which makes it nearly impossible to adjust (unless you get the rig perpendicular to the adjustment plane) - which is why you could do it when you took the wight of the rig. Even on big rigs you normally need to dock to change the side to side trim. - But luckily that adjustment is 99% the same for most people (because we all stand straight in the side to side direction).

Great review though! thanks!

- Mikko Wilson

Thanks Charles for the great review! Very detailed and nice close-ups of the rig. I learned a lot.

I was just wondering what you are doing in Sweden? Is it your home or just a temporary home?

Tery

thanks Terry. I'm working in the steel industry as my day job as my real passion is stabilizers and making movies and editing, which by the way I havn't done any for a couple of years due to me writing my books and working on my stabilizer. I had to turn down jobs that require me to use my stabilizer. You can say that my day job pays for my real passion.

Now, my stabilizer is almost done, I'll be trying to get back on track. I have a back issue which is limiting me to smaller cameras but it's all fun. I'm trying to finish up my fourth book as soon as my carbon sled, new gimbal and dual arm are done.

BTW, I'll post more up close pics of the flyer on HBS as soon as I finish up a write up about the mechanics of it.

<<<-- Originally posted by Mikko Wilson : Great review charles!

A couple of notes that i picked up...

First off you mentioned the "Manfrotto" mounts on the bottom of the sled.. is that a typo? (shoudl be Anton Bauer Mounts...?)

The flyer arm is iso elastic.. and no arm will ever stay where it is put unless it has friction to hold it there (which you said is bad ;-) ) A heavier rig woudl really help.. Why it's only 1/3rd up is all part of the trick.
the bigger arms use 3 springs, because of the spring to lifting ration shoudl be one 3rd.. but instead of using 3 springs to go across the whole diaganol, just use one spring and only go up a 3rd of the way! Aha!
(The Provid arm that uses only one spring has a cam in the connection to the cable to reduce the effiency by one 3rd to get the iso elasticy - which also adds oodles of friction. Ugh.

And yeah, the side ot side adjustment is difficult in flight.. but that's becuase with the rig in flight it is purtting preasure on the threads which makes it nearly impossible to adjust (unless you get the rig perpendicular to the adjustment plane) - which is why you could do it when you took the wight of the rig. Even on big rigs you normally need to dock to change the side to side trim. - But luckily that adjustment is 99% the same for most people (because we all stand straight in the side to side direction).

Great review though! thanks!

- Mikko Wilson -->>>

sorry to answer this late. Yes the manfrotto is a typo. Sorry guys. My bad.

Hi Charles King,

Any chance to see your promoised video with flyer?

TIA
Leigh

<<<-- Originally posted by Leigh Wanstead : Hi Charles King,

Any chance to see your promoised video with flyer?

TIA
Leigh -->>>

I'm working on it.

<<<-- Originally posted by Charles King : <<<-- Originally posted by Leigh Wanstead : Hi Charles King,

Any chance to see your promoised video with flyer?

TIA
Leigh -->>>

I'm working on it. -->>>

I look forward to it.

Nice job on the review Charles. Can't wait for the video. almost done yet? You said you had more upclose pics of the flyer. Is there any chance seeing them? Pretty please ;)

BTW, some time ago you had mentioned selling your system. Are you still interested?

Hi Charles K.

I have to say something about your draw on the Flyer arm pic! :)
I hera you say "of course!" :)

Isn't there a hinge on the.. just look at this pic:
http://w1.226.telia.com/~u22607422/FlyerArmTriangle.jpg
If so, the triangle would be the green line, which is more like the PRO arm, in my understanding...

Please confirm this - it is very importnat to me! (you know why!)

You are quite correct Cosmin. My bad. I did not take into account. Stupid me. Thank you for pointing that out.


Hi Lars. Thanks for the kind comment. I know everyone is eager. I just been having problems with my hard drive as everything is on it and has totally crashed for me. The drive needs to be changed but before that my computer techcian is trying to see if he can save any info or all from the drive before scraping it.

So that means I'll have to do all the work again :(

So what I'll do is just zip up the close up pics that I have of the steadicam flyer and I'll put them up on HBS as they are for all to download they they want. Sounds good?

I had thought about it and probably will. Remember this is my older arm not the vest. That I'm keeping for the socket block and my new arm and sled. Anyone interested ?

Thanks Charles. We're all learning, and you're very helpful, as always! :)

Great review Charles. Can't wait for those pictures. Will it be soon.

I'm working on a project to be shot in the fall and knowing I will need lots of practice am looking at these things now.

I am not looking to be a professonal steadicam operator, and I don't want to spend very much money. But I do need to get a flying cam feel in several scenes of this project. I do not want to hire a pro steadicam operator for several reasons, not the least of which is I live hundreds of miles from any city and I want to rehearse the actors with this thing for about 4 months (any pro operator wanna live in the sticks for 4 months for free? Probably not).

So, I gotta buy one of these things and the V-8, or maybe Magiqcam seem to be be the best built and cheapest. I don't care about comfort or anything like that...I just want it to be able to give me some nice smooth tracking shots while walking and running and other stuff a dolly wouldn't work for becaue of tight quarters and other considerations.

So would it really be worth the 6 grand for one of these "flyers" or could I get away with 2 grand for one of the other ones?

Thanks for the help,

Steve.

Steve:

Kudos on realizing you need plenty of lead time to practice and get comfortable with the system before your shoot. Six months of occasional practice is by no means excessive, it's probably the least you would need to get the basics down solidly.

The Flyer is definitely a higher-performance system than any other currently available, mostly due to the sophistication of the arm. Being a relatively new product with the most recognized name in the industry, it will likely retain good value for resale should you opt for that route.

The comfort issue is probably worth addressing in the following regard; think of buying a cheap pair of sneakers that are fine for knocking around town, then wearing them for a 15 mile road race. At a certain point, that slight compromise in comfort might turn into a nagging annoyance that could ultimately affect your performance under the heightened circumstances. It's the same with the stabilizers in question; under the intensity of shooting, particularly as a new operator, you will likely be pushed right to the edge of your stamina and the system that is best fitted to your body will let you shoot longer and BETTER than one you may be fighting. This is because Steadicam is not about brute force but about delicate subtlety, and when your back is screaming at you on the 12th take and your right hand is going white knuckle from having to keep the rig from flying away from you, the poor left hand that is trying to deliver the subtlety is likely to be compromised by all the fuss going on around it. The two axis arm adjustment found on the Flyer (vs one axis for the Magiqcam, and (I believe, Casey please correct me if I am wrong) none on the V8 makes a great difference.

This observation is based on seeing many "newbie" operators working with a variety of different level rigs over the years, by the way. I'm not a shill for individual companies, but I do feel that the Flyer represents a quantum step forward in DV-scaled stabilizer technology.

However, if the $4K difference is a dealbreaker, you will do quite well with either of the less expensive brands. The lower end Glidecam line is currently being revamped but based on the current systems, I would say that the Magiqcam offers more flexibility for the $.

Charles, thanks for the quick reply. I'm honored to hear from you, as I've read your many posts here and other forums and watched your demo reel.

Point well taken on the comfort deal, I only bring it up because I'd rather suffer a bit and get a good shot than the other way around.

I know the V-8 is replaced with a new model that combines the glidecam 2000 and 4000 w/a vested system, but I've seen the V-8 come up on ebay a few times, so...

I was originally going to get a Magiqcam (they make a 2 arm one which you indicated is a better thing than the 1 arm one), but when I was reading posts on the Steadicam forum, everyone who was a pro and making the kind of shots I wanted to make said almost anything w/out the Steadicam name was a toy. So I was re-thinking things until I saw this post with the photos and review and the conclusion that it is a good investment if you wanted to do this as a pro, which I do not. So if I can get the shots I want with lots of practice from a system that is 4 grand less, that makes sense. If I just can't do it because the hardware sucks, I'll bite the bullet and get the one for 6 grand. My last feature made about that much in sales, so it pretty much eats all the profit I wanted to spend...and would be nice to actually be able to pay the actors this time.

Thanks again, and I love your work.

Steve.

Simon and others. As promise more pics of the Steadicam flyer. since my computer crashed I lost most of my pics and clips but I put together some pics I had left. It is the raw thing so some are slightly darker than others but they are still easily viewed. Hope you enjoy them: Steadicam Flyer Pics (http://homebuiltstabilizers.com/Steadicam%20Flyer/index.htm)

Still working on the video portion. It's taking some time because I'm a little busy with trying to straighten out my pc. So just hany in tere. While viewing some of the footage I learned there were a lot of parts missing like actual pov. but no problwm there are a lot of footage showing the arm performance. Maybe too much but I think you guys will enjoy seeing the arm actually perform, which is a joy just watching it than operating it ( almost :) )

<<<-- Originally posted by Charles King : Simon and others. As promise more pics of the Steadicam flyer. since my computer crashed I lost most of my pics and clips but I put together some pics I had left. It is the raw thing so some are slightly darker than others but they are still easily viewed. Hope you enjoy them: Steadicam Flyer Pics (http://homebuiltstabilizers.com/Steadicam%20Flyer/index.htm)

Still working on the video portion. It's taking some time because I'm a little busy with trying to straighten out my pc. So just hany in tere. While viewing some of the footage I learned there were a lot of parts missing like actual pov. but no problwm there are a lot of footage showing the arm performance. Maybe too much but I think you guys will enjoy seeing the arm actually perform, which is a joy just watching it than operating it ( almost :) ) -->>>

Hi Charles King,

Is the flyer front mount vest?

TIA
Leigh

Charles K, Steve mentioned your demo vid...I haven’t seen it on the HBS site.

If you still have it accessible from somewhere, could you possibly give me a link? It would be very interesting to see.

All the best,

<<<-- Originally posted by Richard Lewis : Charles K, Steve mentioned your demo vid...I haven’t seen it on the HBS site.

If you still have it accessible from somewhere, could you possibly give me a link? It would be very interesting to see.

All the best, -->>>

It's not ready yet.

Leigh, the vest is front mounted.

I'm sorry, I was referring to Charles Papert's demo reel that I saw.

Sorry for the confusion.

Steve.

No problem. The names are confusing. Just write CK or CP.

<<<-- Originally posted by Charles King : <<<-- Originally posted by Richard Lewis : Charles K, Steve mentioned your demo vid...I haven’t seen it on the HBS site.

If you still have it accessible from somewhere, could you possibly give me a link? It would be very interesting to see.

All the best, -->>>

It's not ready yet.

Leigh, the vest is front mounted. -->>>

Hi Charles King,

Thanks

Regards
Leigh

Hi guys. I know it's been a while since I told you all, I would have a clip ready. As I mentioned before i had a problem with my laptop and my new computer. But now things seem to be okay now and I will edit the clips together so i can post it as sson as i can. sorry for the delay. Thanks for being patient.

How much does the suit weight (stabilizer) without the camera just bare...

Thanks in advance

Armando

That's one thing I didn't check. Maybe charles P. or somone has that info?

erghh...I would have to guess, about 12 lbs?

Hi CK. Someone told me you had put up the cideo clip you did with the flyer. Where is it?

<<<-- Originally posted by Lars Gustav : Hi CK. Someone told me you had put up the cideo clip you did with the flyer. Where is it? -->>>

It's in the support local camera forum.