Is there a definite advantage. I would imagine even though with this micro35 device the picture might have some noise to it, but a good glass could at least help on reducing the lens image noise. I'm looking into buying a lens for homemade mini35 and trying to find out what best/$$$ next to high-speed prime lenses.

Michal

Michal, the problem with SLR lenses is they a not very fast. Sure, you can find 50mm 1.4 lenses all day long. But, what about 35mm, 24mm, or just about anything else? SLR lenses are made for cameras that change their shutter speed to adjust to the lens aperture. On video cameras, the shutter speed choices are very limited. In a device like the Micro35, you can expect to loose about 2 f-stops of light. So, the speed of the lens can be very important.

Prime lenses for motion picture cameras are very high quality. After all, the images they capture are projected on 40' screens. They are generally faster than the lenses made for SLRs. In the F2.0 to 2.8 range. Of course, there are the super speeds down in the 1.4 range, with some even lower.

The biggest issue with these is the price tag running in the same range as a late model Buick. At least that used to be the story. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, we have been able to gain access to one of the best kept secrets in the motion picture industry.

The Soviet lenses are world class. The Lomo cine lenses were made in the same plant where the lenses for the USSR's spy satellites were built. The Russians took the PL mount and made it bigger and called it the OCT-19 mount. The other cool part is the price. You can get a prime for about a hundred bucks. The high speed primes are only a few hundred bucks. At those prices, there is really no reason to go the SLR lens route.

Thank you Larry for such a comprehensive answer. I knew about lomo cameras that are even nowadays very popular because of their surreal picture quality you can get out of them. However in my search I did not come across OCT-19 lenses. Surely those are the rather unique lenses than something that is still manufactured today, I guess. From my google and ebay search they seem to be pretty hard to come across. If you know of any place that might still resell them pls post it here since I'm sure many would benefit from it.

Btw from my russian tech experience is whatever they made was made to survive human kind.lol

35mm still lenses should work perfectly well. They are plenty sharp and are generally equally fast as a cinema lens (good 35mm lenses that is). There's not much of a difference in that regard.

Where you would probably see an improvement is in contrast. Then again, a modern Nikon or Canon lens is damn good - so I doubt this as well.

Th real downside to SLR lenses are:

1) No gears for a follow focus
2) A tendency to "breathe"

The Lomo still cameras and the cine lenses are two totally different balls of wax. The lenses are no longer being made to my knowledge.

I found most of mine on ebay. Just do a search for Konvas. That is the most popular camera the lenses fit. Rafcamera and sp314 are 2 of the most reputable sellers. Of course, there are others. I have also bought lenses directly from http://rafcamera.com/ Rafael is a great guy. Very honest and keen on customer relations. If you contact him directly, tell him I sent you. Another layer of accountability is always a good thing, but I sincerely doubt you will need it with him.

Great resource, Larry, what an affordable way of getting high-speed primes. =) Cheers Up. I see some of them are f1.3 so it shouldn't be that hard to light for them. Do you have experience or sample footage you shot with them? Would love to see how they perform on mini35. What kind of setup do you have using these lenses?

Michal, I use them on my Konvas cameras. The first time I sent film shot in one of those cameras to the lab, the colorist kept commenting about the image sharpness and beautiful color. She was surprised to find the footage was shot on a Russian camera bought on ebay.

Hopefully there will be some screen caps and/or clips posted this week from the scene we shot with the Micro35.

What 1/3" CCD camera did you guys shoot with? I checked out your website and you guys seem pretty busy working. Anything you have shot previously with DVX/micro35 setup??

M.

Michal, I picked up the Micro35 from James on the way to shoot the last scene for The Ancient. Other than a test since then, that's all I have shot with it.

"What 1/3" CCD camera did you guys shoot with?"

The only 1/3" CCD camera I own is the DVX100A.

lol good answer ;) for some reason I saw on the production still your dvx/micro35 setup so I thought you guys have been using it for a while. Any idea when the manuals will be available. It's real torture to wait for it. lol

Michal,
They're going out next week.

Thanks for your patience! It's certainly worth the wait!

James

www.micro35.com

GREAT TO HEAR THAT.. hehe.. I'm making my order. I have spotted somewhere you're getting your assembly line going. How much of that rumor is true?? and what would be the price tag per item ( in hundreds I guess)..

BTW are you gonna be able to offer any tech support via email or maybe you could setup private board for those who purchase the manual, where we could discuss any development issues.

Thanks

Michal,
You're right. I'm offering a package where we'll assemble the adapters for you. We also include the rod system and macro.

All this for $500.

Keep checking the website for details!

James

www.micro35.com

I believe there is going to be delay on the Kit Parts unit? when do you expect to be shipping those?

Michal,
The way I'm setting up the assembly and kits, it will allow me to build many at a time without delays.

Email me and I can give you more details...

james

www.micro35.com

BTW do you guys know if PANASONIC TC-7WMS1 LCD does flip verticaly??

Michal,
I believe there's a thread already started on that subject. You may have better luck posting that question over here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40613

Thanks!

james

www.micro35.com

How much does the 35mm and 70mm lens vary regarding the effect they have on picture. I know one of the things would be probably more shallow depth of field using 70 vs 35. But how do they compare when wide open. What kind of look should I expect from each one of them. BTW I'm looking for a very generalized idea.

Thank you

M.

Michal,
I can only speak for the EOS SLR lenses. If you look at the Horse video on the micro35.com site, it was shot with two different lenses. One was a Sigma 24-70mm and the other was a Canon 75-300mm. The 75-300mm had the loose focus breathing. I believe this is a characteristic of the zooming mechanism of the lens.

james
www.micro35.com

I'm not quite sure what you are looking for but here are some of my thoughts - may or may not be useful:

A 35mm lens will of course give you a much wider field of view than a 70mm.

Generally speaking shorter focal lengths (smaller numbers) tend to emphesize the distance between things in the foreground vs the background. Telephoto lenses compress the image making far away things (in the background) seem much closer to the subject.

As for sharpness, aberration etc, this can only be analyzed on a lens by lens basis.

Aaron Shaw wrote:

"Generally speaking shorter focal lengths (smaller numbers) tend to emphasize the distance between things in the foreground vs the background. Telephoto lenses compress the image making far away things (in the background) seem much closer to the subject."


My favorite story (which was told to me as true) that illustrates the point is about a small town city council meeting. There was a group of citizens that wanted to limit the number of billboards that were popping up along the adjacent highway. The local outdoor advertiser, naturally opposed any restrictions citing that the billboard were a reasonable distance apart and not an eyesore at all.

After an unfruitful discussion, it was determined that each group should photograph examples to illustrate their points of view and bring the photos to the next city council meeting. The group wanting the billboards hired a photographer who chose a wide angle lens. He picked a section of highway and captured an image that showed the billboard so far apart that there was no way anyone could possibly complain.

The opposing group also hired a photographer. By coincidence, he chose the same section of highway to make his point. But he chose a long telephoto lens. The photograph he created showed the billboards so close together that they looked like a picket fence.

Armed with their evidence, the two groups arrived at the monthly council meeting. When presented with the photos, the council members became extremely irritated. They threw out both photographs because they had determined, since the camera doesn't lie, that the group that opposed the billboards had obviously gone out and put up a bunch of billboards to make them look bad AND the group that wanted the billboard to stay had gone out and torn them all down. Meeting adjourned.

That's a good one Larry.hahaha..hmm so I gotta choose lens based on if I'm pro billboard or against? :P

Hi James,

you wrote you will sell complete kit for ~500 US$. Do you have a german/european reseller?

How would you compare your device to the P+S mini35 adapter? We shot the first 90min docu-feature world wide with the min35 adapter and the Canon XL1s. Was a great experience beside the DV compression artefacts.

Does you kit conflict with patents from P+S?

Will you support the new JVC HD 100 HDV camera coming on NAB? That will be a MUST HAVE camera option...


Questions over questions,

How much difference there is between ekran f2 and f1.4 75mm lens?? Is it worth extra couple of houndred $$. is the picture quality gonna be considerably better when used with micro35?? Thanks

The only real difference between the F2 and F1.4 lenses is 1 F-stop. The image quality should be very similar.

so does it make sense spend lot of money on high quality lenses when the quality won't match the price. I guess what I'm trying to find out if it makes sense to put 2k chorme rims on old beaten up car. it's still gonna perform the same. thanks

It is not really a question of quality. It is a matter of quantity of light. The F1.4 lens lets in twice as much light as the F2 lens.

oh that makes sense. so if I have a object lit with 1k light and I want the same exposure for f2 lens I need to add another 1k light?

if I shoot on a bright summer day then it probably won't matter right?? since you still have to stop down in camera anyway..
Thanks

To a degree that depends on the light sensitivity of your camera and the amount of light lost in the adapter. But yeah, on a sunny day you will probably have to use a neutral density filter and/or iris down.

Hey All,

I don't currently have any 35mm lenses. What would you recommend as a good first lens? I would prefer an internal focus lens, as I have a Formatt FM-500 Matte Box that I would like to keep using.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Brett

start with 50mm

Nikon has a $99 50mm f1.8

Then u can get a zoom... 70-300mm f4 around $130

then u can come down to a 12-24mm

maybe this should be a sepparate question but I think it's still pretty relavant to this discussion. :)

how shallow DOF would you get from 35mm lens attached to micro35 compared to 50 or 75??

Thanks

I will be happy to sell you a Nikon 50mm f.1.4 lens I just picked up from eBay - I haven't even unwrapped it and I decided to go the Lomo route.

Let me know if you're interested! I will sell at the same price I paid for it which is around $75

Brian

Michal, go to http://www.dudak.baka.com/dofcalc.html and plug in the lens you want along with the F-stop and subject distance, hit "Calculate Depth of Field". It will answer all your questions.

Larry - I want to ask you a little more on your lomo lenses. First, what focal lengths did you get (I assume from your posts they are all primes), and how did you mount them to the micro35 - did you convert to PL mount, or did you somehow get an OCT-19 mount kit?

I ask because I have accumulated at 18mm, 50mm and 80mm, and I'm wondering about something like a 200mm. The mount converters to PL seem really expensive (almost as much as the lenses themselves)


Thanks

Brian

Brian, I have a set of F1.4 lenses: 18mm, 22mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, and 75mm. I have some others in some of the same focal lengths that are slower than F1.4. And a couple of longer lenses including a 100mm and 150mm and a 10mm, as well.

I took the OCT-19 mount off one of my Konvas cameras and sent it to James. He is working on providing the OCT-19 mount, so you shouldn't have to scuttle a camera like I did.

Larry - blazing the trail for the rest of us! Good to hear about the OCT-19 mount since the PL adapter is $$.

I could not find any 1.4 primes. best I could find is 2.5 or so, so I guess the money I save on the lenses will have to go to the lighting kit!

Cheers

Brian

I have a Nikon Nikkor 50mm f1:1.4 MF lens that was given to me. Will that work in James nikon setup. And is it a decent enough lens?

I think the answer is yes to all the above. obviously it's a prime lens, so you may need other focal lengths at some point (see previous post)

I was happy that I was given a prime. I know that in the long run it would probably catch a lot of the work I hope to do.

What other focal lengths do I need?

Thought about eventually purchasing a zoom lens of some sort.

What other lenses come in handy? I'd imagine something smaller (35, 28, etc) to achieve the more shallow DOF.

thanks for the imput

as per above:

start with 50mm

Nikon has a $99 50mm f1.8

Then u can get a zoom... 70-300mm f4 around $130

then u can come down to a 12-24mm

Shallow DOF is a bit of an art - there is a post somewhere around here about the DOF calculator online.

Generally, the longer the focal length, the shorter the DOF (okay okay, it has a lot more variables, but it's a place to start).

Take a look at the sample footage James put up on micro35.com - he points out the focal lengths he is using in the movies.

yeah still trying to read up in the DOF stuff....rather confusing...but I'm only just beginning. Don't actually have a camera yet. Waiting to hear about James adapter and how it performs with a variety of cameras before I purchase.

Andrew - you should consider investing in a guide written by Barry Green over at DVXUser.com

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=12272

Although it's specific to DVX100 it is a great book/DVD for explaining a lot of DV stuff you should know.

here's the info on the DOF calculator:

Michal, go to http://www.dudak.baka.com/dofcalc.html and plug in the lens you want along with the F-stop and subject distance, hit "Calculate Depth of Field". It will answer all your questions.


__________________
www.lunaticfringepictures.com

With James' adapter and nikon lenses...are there any particular series of lenses that it's designed specifically for...or any series it WON'T work with? Are there other adapters/stepdown rings etc that allow any nikon lens to work?

One fun, direct way to learn all this stuff---how to use fixed-focal-length lenses, manipulating DoF &c---is to shoot stills. Nothing will teach you this stuff faster.

<<<-- Originally posted by Andrew C. Stewart : With James' adapter and nikon lenses...are there any particular series of lenses that it's designed specifically for...or any series it WON'T work with? Are there other adapters/stepdown rings etc that allow any nikon lens to work? -->>>

According to James: The mount situation has been taken care of. Nikon, Canon AF and MF, pentax, PL, and OCT-19 will be available.

So pretty much if you have a lens that works with any of these mounts you are probably in good shape.

Thanks brian...

I've been looking at some other Nikon lenses and some say AI, some AIS, some for what I assume to be different cameras(Sigma, Nikkor, Vivitar, Tamron, etc). I just didn't know if the mounts were the same or different...or at least compatible in some way.

Also...what does everyone recommend in ways of Autofocus and Manual?

I would assume that the AF in a lens wouldn't work with this type of an adapter and that MF would give you more control anyway. Is that the general concensus?

I can't speak for others, but my strategy has been to invest in some high quality lomo cine primes with manual focus and assume I will invest in a follow focus rig sometime soon.... well, as soon as microfocus shows up!

will any focal length lenses get vingetting?? for example, if i were to use a 28mm f2.8 lens will it vingette with the micro35???

on some of the wide angles i have the glass thats on the side that connects to the body of the camera is smaller than my 50mm.

when i use this lens with my agus35 i get the vengetting.

I can't speak for all lenses, but my lenses as wide as 18mm haven't caused any problems.