I read the reports about Sony showing the Camera on a large screen. Has anyone see this? How does the image look like? Does it look sharp enough? Is the CineFrame 25/24 better? Is software deinterlacing better?

If you have digital projection, do projectors project 1080i or you need to convert to1080p?

I read that digital projection is better than optical. So if you project this camera digital and 35 mm film optical, will 35 mm film look a lot better, a little better, equal, worse what? Will digital projection look better than optical projection of Super 16 mm originated film, equal, worse, or what. I'd like learn.

Hi Radek,

One of the first things I did after buying my Sony Z1U video camera, was to do some shooting and then hook it up to my NEC HT1000 optical projector. I was amazed!!!

Although my projector is not natively HD, it can project an HD image via the Component, DVI, or even RGB ports.

Anyway, the projected picture size was 100 inches diagonally, and my viewing distance at 8 feet. The picture quality of the Z1U was nothing short of phenomenal!

In fact the best way to see the difference between SD and HDV is to do just that: test your FX1 or Z1U with a projector! You'll be amazed!

- Nicholas

Has someone done a printout to film ? That's really the thing. I want to make some Cinema commercials in near future, so I'd like to know, if I can offer that with good reason using the z1.

Thanks !
Peter

I attended a theatre demo of various HD products that included footage shot with the Z1 and projected on a full-sized theatre screen through a Sanyo projector. The demo material supplied by Sony was OK, but not-jaw dropping. Footage shot by a DP in Las Vegas was more impressive.

The most interesting footage was side-by-side comparison of Z1 versus PD150 footage. The PD150 footage looked quite good on the big screen, and certainly was not "blown off the screen" by the Z1 footage.

This is not meant to suggest that Z1 isn't a teriffic camera, but I was expecting a bit more.

Wayne Orr, SOC

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Rixner : Has someone done a printout to film ? That's really the thing. I want to make some Cinema commercials in near future, so I'd like to know, if I can offer that with good reason using the z1.

Thanks !
Peter -->>>

I don't know how things are done in Munich, but here in the states the "pre-show" stuff before the previews (what I assume you are calling Cinema Commercials) are done primarily via digital projection and not via film projection. They don't project on the entire screen though, only about 50% - 75% of the screen is used. I believe the primary reasons for this are a) the lights are still on so people can find their seats, and digital projectors are much brighter than film projectors, and b) it would be way too expensive to always do a film print for commercials.

Ben

Thanks Ben,

but here in Munich - where people wear funny trousers and drink beer al the time :) - only a handfull of theatres have digital projection. At least the ones outside the big cities. There filmprint is very normal. But I guess that will change as projectors getting more and more affordable.

In the meantime we will still have to make printouts, which we allready have done with stills and graphics. But now, with the Z1 I intend to go to the movies :)

I just wonder if it will look as good as I expect it. Sure it sould be MUCH better then SD.

Peter

I read some post that the Sanyo presentation looked awful. The projector was not HD. Sony also showed the footage later with Qualia HD projector and it looked great. Can someone confirm if it is true.

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Rixner : Thanks Ben,

but here in Munich - where people wear funny trousers and drink beer al the time :) - only a handfull of theatres have digital projection. At least the ones outside the big cities. There filmprint is very normal. But I guess that will change as projectors getting more and more affordable.

In the meantime we will still have to make printouts, which we allready have done with stills and graphics. But now, with the Z1 I intend to go to the movies :)

I just wonder if it will look as good as I expect it. Sure it sould be MUCH better then SD.

Peter -->>>

Wow, that is surprising, considering how cheap you can get DLP projectors for (MUCH cheaper than any film projector). Keep in mind I'm NOT talking about the kind of digital projector you would use to project a movie (like the 2k and 4k projectors used in some big movie theaters to show the digital version of Star Wars Episode II and III). I'm talking about home-theater (typically 1280x720) projectors that cost <$5k.

They ONLY use these to do commercials before the previews start, the previews and the movie are both projected on film.

Anyway, to answer your question, yes the HD of the Z1 should hold up much better than any SD camera when transferred to film. I've never seen a transfer with my own eyes though.

Ben

<<<-- Originally posted by Radek Svoboda : I read some post that the Sanyo presentation looked awful. The projector was not HD. Sony also showed the footage later with Qualia HD projector and it looked great. Can someone confirm if it is true. -->>>

Sanyo makes so many good HD projectors that it would be surprising if they didn't use an HD projector, but it would have been a native 720p projector and not 1080i.

The Qualia (native 1080i) would have given a better indication of what a blow-up to film would look like, and the differences between the PD170 and the Z1 should have been obvious on that type of projector.

Not to mention HD looks like a wet dream through the Qualia anyway :)

I saw it on the qualia at DV expo in LA - 20 foot screen - looked very very good... I couldn't see any pixels or artifacts although I don't really have a trained eye. The only problem was it was still interlaced.. need to see deinterlaced footage to be absolutely certain..

dvfilm will transfer one minute of footage to film for something like $250. If anyone is in LA and interested let me know, maybe we could split costs (although I should mention I don't own a Z1).

jeff@meltworks.com

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Rixner : Has someone done a printout to film ? -->>>

Early next month I will be shooting a test segment that we will print to 35mm. It will be projected in a theatre and reviewed by a panel of film DPs. Results will be in DV Mag -- I'll post again when I know what issue the article will be in.

At NAB, Sony will have several film segments to show.
The Latin America launch of the Z1 was done on film vs HDV, and it was stupendous, IMO. Very impressive quality. My only wish was that I had something shot on an Arriflex 35 to compare it to right there/then, as intercut or side by side or A/B or something, because I was struggling to believe what I was seeing. Still sort of am struggling with it, but I've got a copy of the original HDV footage, so I know it wasn't a dream.

Sorry, what stupendous means: stupid, splendid?

So for Latin America Sony transferd HDV footage to film and it looked fine on big theater screen? You mean the camera is good to shoot feature with it and have it shown in regular theaters worldwide?

<<<-- Originally posted by Radek Svoboda : I read some post that the Sanyo presentation looked awful. The projector was not HD. Sony also showed the footage later with Qualia HD projector and it looked great. Can someone confirm if it is true. -->>>

I've seen the same Sony demo video on both. Obviously the Qualia looked dramatically better. But that isn't really the important point.

1) The Qualia is 10X/100X more expensive.

2) it was set-up properly.

3) The Sanyo most likely was not.

5)However, my Sanyo is set-up perfectly. But, no matter. It has a cheap de-interlacer. Likely a $5 chip. The Qualia probably has $500/$5000 deinterlace built-in.

What this means is that ANY interlace camcorder's ulimate viewed quality is going to depend significantly on the display. In particular, the display's deinterlacer. Simply put, to get the most from Sony HDV you'll need a top of the line (read very expensive display) to get great results.

Moreover, when working in your NLE -- if you ever need to deinterlace -- you had better use the most sophisticatd one you can get. Likely, not the one found in Premiere and FCP.

Almost all widescreen displays are progressive as are computers and film. It is only common sense, IMHO, that one's first priority is to shoot progressive. Every other feature is debateable. Especially when we know there is no significant resolution difference between interlaced 1080 and progressive 720.

Moreover, 720 requires 1/2 the computer power to play and edit.

Therefore, the issue of how good the 1080i HDV looked on a Qualia is relevant only when your productions are going to shown digitally on this type of projector -- which is not going into cinemas.

I suspect most hi-end video theater projectors are ONLY progressive because they expect to be showing film transfered frame-by-frame to disk. So you can't count on you local digital cinema having any de-interlacing equipment.

IMHO. if you take emotion, branding, and marketing out of the equation, technology is pointing very clearly in only one direction.

Sure, but I have FX1E. What is best deinterlacing software? What is best mode to shoot for film out? How good will the film look like on big screen?

How much is Qualia projector? How big was screen used with this projector?

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- IMHO. if you take emotion, branding, and marketing out of the equation, technology is pointing very clearly in only one direction. -->>>

It's good to know that you have an honest opinion, because there's so much hype, bollocks and dis-information being shoved around by a number of people about 720p versus 1080i at the moment.

Of course honest opinions are like certain beliefs sometimes.... not only mis-guided, but down-right purile once the blind faith they're based on is stripped away.

It's a shame that you haven't been dispassionate enough to apply your same principles to the advice you provide.

The question was regarding viewing FX-1/Z1 material on a theatre size screen.

Now if you had viewed HD10u HDV 720p clips on such a screen, and then provided your opinion about your impressions of that compared to 1080i FX-1/Z1 HDV clips viewed on the same screen via the same projection equipment, we would have all got some benefit from your experience.

All you've done is de-cried something without prior experience, unless of course you have viewed currently available 720p HDV and 1080i HDV on a theatre screen, either digitally projected on appropriate equipment that has been correctly set-up.... or perhaps the same HDV sources transferred to film.

If you haven't had such an experience..... butt out.

Why not head in the direction you see so clearly being pointed out, and leave the rest to enjoy heading in the direction they've found for themselves...... unless you feel threatened by people exercising their democratic rights?

BTW Radek, Stupendous means more than just trem-endous.... it's so amazing it's stup-ifying!!

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale :

"Now if you had viewed HD10u HDV 720p clips ... compared to 1080i FX-1/Z1 HDV clips viewed on the same screen via the same projection equipment, we would have all got some benefit from your experience."

Actually I have compared both projected by the Sanyo in question on the same screen. So what is that expression about folks who make ASSumptions?

However, a far more valid comparision will have to wait until the HD100.

"All you've done is de-cried something without prior experience."

Well since I have the prior experience you feel you have the right to demand, I guess that you owe me an appology -- now.

Moreover, one doesn't need experience -- one needs to understand the technology and it's implications on how it affects images. Experience is totally subjective. You may not even know what bad de-interlacing looks like. So you'll see no problem. You may think interlace flicker and interlace twitter are simply part of what video looks like. So you think that's the best video can be. I certainly cannot trust your eyes -- nor can you trust mine.

In the end, an understanding of technology plus measurements lead to objective judgements. Not a popular position in a world where millions believe anyone's opinion is as good as another.

"If you haven't had such an experience..... butt out."

I'd suggest you go back and read carefully -- it's clear you have a great deal to learn about the technology of video projection.

Your comments are not only ugly, they are way OT.

I have done a film transfer from some clips that were published on DV Info site. Those clips were de interlaced and croped to Cinemascope aspect ratio and stretched to fit correctly for a Cinemascope print. I have sent two copies of that transfer to evaulate but so far receive no reply from them other than that they receive the copy. May be due to difficulty in finding a projector.

If you have access to a 35 mm Film Projector I will send you a copy to see for your self. But ONLY IF YOU CAN VIEW THE FOOTAGE.

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale :

"Now if you had viewed HD10u HDV 720p clips ... compared to 1080i FX-1/Z1 HDV clips viewed on the same screen via the same projection equipment, we would have all got some benefit from your experience."

Actually I have compared both projected by the Sanyo in question on the same screen. So what is that expression about folks who make ASSumptions?

However, a far more valid comparision will have to wait until the HD100. -->>>

Why was it essential to mis-quote? Strange you left out "on such a screen"...

Is your projector a High Definition projector capable of proper 1080i as well as 720p display? And is your screen a theatre sized screen?

For the sake of clarification; I'm sure you won't mind stating the screen size, as well as the projector's specifications, that you used to view the HDV material.

And I'll ask the question again...
Have you watched HDV material from the only currently available HDV camcorders, projected by an adequately specificationed High Definition projector that is 1080 and 720 capable, on a Theatre Size screen?

It's a simple enough question to answer....

<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle : At NAB, Sony will have several film segments to show.
The Latin America launch of the Z1 was done on film vs HDV, and it was stupendous, IMO. Very impressive quality. My only wish was that I had something shot on an Arriflex 35 to compare it to right there/then, as intercut or side by side or A/B or something, because I was struggling to believe what I was seeing. Still sort of am struggling with it, but I've got a copy of the original HDV footage, so I know it wasn't a dream. -->>>

Now that I know what stupendous means, I think I found answer. I trust Douglas Spotted Eagle. Thanks Douglas and Steve Crisdale.

Douglas, how big was screen during Latin American introduction?

Steve Mullen, thanks too and tell me please how big was screen with the Qualia presentation? Did anyone else see it?

JVC and Panasonic may possible have better cameras. But if 3,000 euro camera can be transfered to film and projected to a large theater screen, that is good enough for me. Maybe year from now 1080p will cost what 1080i costs today. That is when I'll upgrade.

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Crisdale :
Look Stevie, I'll give you one anwser and I've had it with your attitude.

Strange you left out "on such a screen"

I was at the Sony Z1 introduction so saw Z1 from a Qualia on "some big" screen. The same evening a saw it from a Sanyo on some kind of medium sized screen.

Therefore, "Such a screen" means nothing. There are a good 2 dozen types of screen material. And, if you knew anything about screens you would know that HOW something looks depends on where the projector is placed (above/below) the center line and what the screen's power is.

So I did not claim I saw it on a "such a screen". What screen would that be?

Now you go back and read my post and learn about de-interlacing and its critical importance to projecting interlaced video NO MATTER THE SCREEN OR PROJECTOR.

<<<-- Originally posted by Radek Svoboda : <<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle Steve Mullen, thanks too and tell me please how big was screen with the Qualia presentation? Did anyone else see it? -->>>

You did! At the Sony theater when they introduced the Z1. Maybe 30' diagonal? Maybe bigger?

It was damn impressive looking! I think they may have mentioned the cost? $100K? And, likely perfectly calibrated.

Check out the following thread, another post on the original topic of this thread:

FX1 Film Transfer
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=37476&highlight=fx1+film

So far only Steve Mullen and DSE have seen FX/Z1 footage on large theater screen and it looked superb. DSE also saw footage transfered to film, it looked superb. Has anyone else see the footage on theater screen either projected from 1080p projector or film projectoor? Has anyone made film with this camera that was shown in theater?

Radek

So far only Steve Mullen and DSE have seen FX/Z1 footage on large theater screen and it looked superb. DSE also saw footage transfered to film, it looked superb. Has anyone else see the footage on theater screen either projected from 1080p projector or film projectoor? Has anyone made film with this camera that was shown in theater?

Radek

Maybe we're the only ones who posted about it, but there are several hundred if not thousands of people who have seen this. The entire Latin America touring release of the Z1 was done on film, not tape. It would be great if others who saw it were part of this forum, and perhaps they are. Maybe someone else can chime in.
There is a new feature in post right now, heading for film, that a production company in Las Vegas is managing. I've seen their previous gone-to-film projects, all very good stuff. I'll keep you posted as it comes.

DSE,

We have all seen HDCAM film productions. They can look crap or they can look very good. I saw Spy Kids 2 and picture was excellent. Everything Rodriguez does with digital acquisition looks top notch.

I don't know how he shot Once Upon a Time in Mexico, if it was shot with F900's, but probably was. I don't think he records to hard discs. I think it's all to tape. I undeerstand latest version of F900 has better colors. Maybe that what he used. I tell you, it looked sharp like 70 mm. If used F950's please let me know. He now owns them.

I own FX1E and it is excellent camera. If I used it for film out and had top notch DP, what can I expect? Could picture be good enough for theater release? I think it would.

Episode 2 picture qulity was so bad. Compared to Once Upon a Time was no comparison. Can little Sony make picture quality look like something in between the two films, as its top quality limit, or would Episode 2 quality be about max one can hope for?

Radek

on this very page (7th post from the top) I offered a free sample of the transfer I have made (FREE OF CHARGE).But it will be for some one who does have access to a film projector to view it. So far I did not receive any request. Surprisingly it seems no one has read that post or completely ignored it.

Sorry, it was the 3rd post from the top.

on this very page (7th post from the top) I offered a free sample of the transfer I have made (FREE OF CHARGE).But it will be for some one who does have access to a film projector to view it. So far I did not receive any request. Surprisingly it seems no one has read that post or completely ignored it.

I think many have seen it, but the question is, how many have access to a 35mm projector? I surely don't, except at the local planetarium, and they've made it pretty clear that they're not interested in allowing much of anything in there except what they produce.

I have access to 35mm projection and would like to see this footage. Email me if you want to send it and I'll give you the info. If you do send it, I'd like to know how it was shot and all pertinent details. I can have it projected in a theater with a 48' screen, and/or in one of the smaller ones with a much shorter throw and smaller screen.

I can get it projected too in more than one theater and can have some DP's evaluate it.

Radek

What is interesting in Latin America the camera was itroduced as movie camera. The presentations were in movie theaters, footage transfered to film. DSE saw it in Mexico City.

If is good enough for Latin American filmakers, it should good enough for most indie filmakers in U.S. and Europe.

Anyone seen Mexican film El Topo? Excellent, surealistic. El Topo 2 was not good.

Radek

There was an El Topo 2? Blasphemy!

Radek,

Send me an email to maheelrp@dcinemanetworks.com.

Dear Maheel, I work as a projectionist in one of europes most modern cinemas. Id love to see the footage if that is ok with you and post the results here!

Soroush,

Send me an email.

Radek,

At last I was able to post in the forum. I think you got my reply.

Hello Sir (Maheel Perera),

Did u do any new film transfers from HDR-FX1 footages? Any improvment in the sound quality ? I've been forced for an isolation from DV 2 Film transfers for the past few months. I don't know the latest news in the industry too. :(
Did u do anything for AG HVX 200 ? Is it better than HDR FX1 ? How is Samara (Film) transfer going on ?

Hello Nice to meet you at DV Info.

The latest transfer we have done from FX1 footage was some underwatwer footage shot by Paul Waghorn. See his site www.ningalooreefteach.com/camera/phenomreview.htm
The HVX is not yet released so we are yet to see some footage from the cam.