Hello again everybody!
I want to share some experience with some of you guys who uses miniDV cam. I tried anything to process my miniDV videos with Vegas 5 and 6 so that to get film looked result, but unsuccessfuly. I tried applying so many combinations of effects and filters, red so many manuals and tutorials about that matter. Also tried MagicBullet Movie Looks, etc.,etc. and the result is so far away from any kind of film look. Even the quality becomes worse at all. I know that miniDV is difficult for film look making, that's why I want to ask if somebody wants to share his video grabs just to let me see if the look is like film.
Also,is there any reason if the timeline is set 24p or 25p for final render out to pal svcd or pal dvd? Give me some examples for best settings,please.
Please for your help and suggestions!!!

Plamen: I've renamed your thread to better indicate what you are looking for.

What exactly is the "film look"? People have different answers to that question.

Film "look" isn't just a bunch of filters, most people agree to that. It is a good
story, good acting, good camera work (compositing), good lighting (very
important!), good editing etc.

There are ways to get DV to look more like film. I suggest you take a look
at our film look forum and read as much as you can. There will be samples
in that forum of people who have done a film look for you to look at.

Most people seem to like the way Magic Bullet creates a film look.

What camera did you use to record this footage with?

Thanks for reply,Rob! My miniDV camera is JVC GR DVL520A,it is very good in its class. Of course,the film look is not exact terminology. The most I want to know is how to get 24p film motion when I have to render out to PAL /25p/? If I render out to DV AVI 24p and then to PAL DVD or PAL SVCD,the look is so strobed because of 24p-25p loss. I hope you understand what I mean. Anyway,thank you very much!

Also, where is that film look forum, I don't know it? Any link???

Also, where is that film look forum, I don't know it? Any link???

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=34

Plamen, you can see an example of what I've down with Vegas at:
http://www.glennchan.info/Proofs/dvinfo/EFP1-CC-comparison.mov

That wasn't shot on mini-DV but DVCPRO, which is a very similar format. The camera used is a Panasonic 200-series DVCPRO camera. The most equivalent mini-DV camera would be an XL1/XL1s or the low end of Sony's DSR series or the JVC shoulder-mount camera (DV5000 or something like that). 1/3" CCDs, a few generations old, mediocre Fujinon lens (in that clip you can see the zooming effect during the rack focus).

I didn't apply film-like motion, although on a computer screen you won't be able to tell the difference. For PAL, de-interlace your footage to get film-like motion. VIEW THE RESULTS ON A TELEVISION SET. In Vegas, right click --> reduce interlace flicker. Go to file, properties, set the de-interlace method to blend fields. This will cause a slight loss in vertical resolution. Get Mike Crash's de-interlace filter at http://mikecrash.wz.cz/ for better vertical resolution.
http://mikecrash.wz.cz/

That side by side comparison is pretty astounding.

Is there a tutorial or breakdown as to what you did to achieve that?




Plamen, you can see an example of what I've down with Vegas at:
http://www.glennchan.info/Proofs/dvinfo/EFP1-CC-comparison.mov

That wasn't shot on mini-DV but DVCPRO, which is a very similar format. The camera used is a Panasonic 200-series DVCPRO camera. The most equivalent mini-DV camera would be an XL1/XL1s or the low end of Sony's DSR series or the JVC shoulder-mount camera (DV5000 or something like that). 1/3" CCDs, a few generations old, mediocre Fujinon lens (in that clip you can see the zooming effect during the rack focus).

I didn't apply film-like motion, although on a computer screen you won't be able to tell the difference. For PAL, de-interlace your footage to get film-like motion. VIEW THE RESULTS ON A TELEVISION SET. In Vegas, right click --> reduce interlace flicker. Go to file, properties, set the de-interlace method to blend fields. This will cause a slight loss in vertical resolution. Get Mike Crash's de-interlace filter at http://mikecrash.wz.cz/ for better vertical resolution.
http://mikecrash.wz.cz/

Hey Chris,
Unfortunately there is no tutorial for that. If there is enough demand I can get off my ass and make a tutorial.

OR

If you post up a (bunch of) still images (lowest compression JPEG would probably be good) I could bounce a .veg project back to you with a color graded version.

2- For that comparison I used different settings and filters for each shot. So there's no easy way in a post to describe what happened.

I have good results with the Magic Bullet Editors for Vegas. (The MB MovieLooks is the free demo that comes with Vegas, isn't it? The Editors version is the full version with a lot more options). Check for instance the screenshots at http://www.orphicfilm.nl/html/2005-test.html .

25P or 24P isn't any big difference. If you shoot with PAL, go for 25P. Unless you want to transfer your footage to real film for a cinema, but then you want to go to a professional transferhouse to the job.

I think Vegas 6 offers some 25P conversion on the fly as a new option. Check the www.vasst.com website to find out about it.

Glenn,

I'm all for a basic tutorial on that - it looks awesome in comparison to the original. I understand each shot was filtered different, but some basic info on the filters used as a whole is better than nothing!

Thanks

Peter what magic bullet filter did you use i haven't seen one look that good before!

Hi Evan, I used several standard MB presets (one for each screenshot), without any tweaking of the parameters. What you see is: Curahee, Bleach Bypass, Bronze and Sharp. Bronze is a difficult one, it makes the picture a lot darker so it's not suitable in all cases.

I'm all for a basic tutorial on that - it looks awesome in comparison to the original. I understand each shot was filtered different, but some basic info on the filters used as a whole is better than nothing!

Ok I plan on doing a tutorial but here's some basic info:

I used the color curves filter and did the "s" thing. There were lots of highlights in the picture, so I had to tweak the top part of the curve by adding an additional point and not making it so flat there.

Next step: Color corrector filter, saturation at 1.694
Next: Saturation adjust, amount -0.2020
center 0.296
spread 1
low 0.34
high -0.3260

Superimposed layer (adds diffusion):
the video contains the same filters... TIP Hold crtl and move a clip with your mouse to copy the clip onto an upper track.

Track opacity = 50%
Gaussian blur added on top
Used secondary color corrector to isolate flesh tones. Alpha = 0

These were track FX... color corrector first, then gaussian blur (alpha box checked).

In another veg, I used secondary CC on skin tones to isolate them. Then I blurred them or something, and brought them back into the project as takes to the clips.

Some shots use simulated graduated filters.
Add a color gradient to an upper track.
Set compositing mode to ?dodge?
Adjust track opacity to change strength of effect.

Some shots used secondary color correction to bring down the yellow in the actresses' teeth.

Glenn,you are great!Thank you so so so much for your help! I will try it very soon. Of course, it would be nice if you write a tutorial with some variants included. But also I think that it is a good idea if you attach /even here in the forum as a link/ some veggies with the exact parameters you use.
Thank you once again! I appreciate your expierence!!!

Yes glenn,

I agree with petrov that you should still do the tutorial, but thanks a million for giving us this much info. We'll be waiting with our eyes glued to the forum for the rest!

Thanks for reply,Rob! My miniDV camera is JVC GR DVL520A,it is very good in its class. Of course,the film look is not exact terminology. The most I want to know is how to get 24p film motion when I have to render out to PAL /25p/? If I render out to DV AVI 24p and then to PAL DVD or PAL SVCD,the look is so strobed because of 24p-25p loss. I hope you understand what I mean. Anyway,thank you very much!Do not do this. Don't go from 25p -> 24p -> 25p. That does not maky any
sense and will introduce a lot of problems with strobing and quality loss. You
can't see the difference between 25p & 24p when it is being played, projected.

Hi again,Glenn!!!
I tried your suggestions already and I have to say that they are MORE then grate!!! Of course,I did some corrections and some other adjustments,and it is normal to be so. But all I have to say at all is: Glenn,your tutorials are EXACTLY about film look reaching as a base. The result of your expierence just kills the hard work of MagicBullet,UltimateS,Cineform,FilmFX/for Adobe/ and many more. It is so good that there are a people like you! Thank you once again and keep in touch and tutoring!!! Special greetings to you from Bulgaria!

Ok I plan on doing a tutorial but here's some basic info:

I used the color curves filter and did the "s" thing. There were lots of highlights in the picture, so I had to tweak the top part of the curve by adding an additional point and not making it so flat there.

Next step: Color corrector filter, saturation at 1.694
Next: Saturation adjust, amount -0.2020
center 0.296
spread 1
low 0.34
high -0.3260

Superimposed layer (adds diffusion):
the video contains the same filters... TIP Hold crtl and move a clip with your mouse to copy the clip onto an upper track.

Track opacity = 50%
Gaussian blur added on top
Used secondary color corrector to isolate flesh tones. Alpha = 0

These were track FX... color corrector first, then gaussian blur (alpha box checked).

In another veg, I used secondary CC on skin tones to isolate them. Then I blurred them or something, and brought them back into the project as takes to the clips.

Some shots use simulated graduated filters.
Add a color gradient to an upper track.
Set compositing mode to ?dodge?
Adjust track opacity to change strength of effect.

Some shots used secondary color correction to bring down the yellow in the actresses' teeth.

Could you pull off the same look in Adobe Premiere 6.5? That would be wicked killer if you could.

Trevor,
No you can't.

Premiere Pro is better than the old version in that it has color curves. However, it still has no secondary color correction.

Which Vegas did you use, 5 or 6?

I used Vegas 5.