Okay, so here's my delima...I am going off to college next year to study film/video within the School of Art at my college. They use FCP for editing classes and workstations.

I currently am using premiere pro 1.5 on a fairly high end PC. I figure it is probably smart to get a power book or a lower end g5 with FCP so that I'll be compatible with the school and be able to exchange files, etc. I currently have a PVDV953. As powerful as that camera is, it is no where near the DVX100a.

The school has vx2000 and xl1's to check out from equipment storage, but I figure if I'm on the go, running and gunning, I'll want to have my own camera by my side. So here comes the dilema...a DVX100a is 3k + mac w/ FCP = lots of expenses.

I plan on getting a summer job and my highschool is working to get me some big discounts on the mac, but its all expensive along with college expenses and needing to have money to support myself.

I'm sure it sounds like I'm whining, but I guess I'm just ranting my frustrations and asking for any advice from all you experienced ones out there. Thanks

Where are you going to go to school?

Are there any videography/production outfits in the area? Oftentimes, you can rent equipment from these outfits for a much cheaper cost than you would encounter by purchasing the equipment outright.

Granted, renting a DVX-100 from, for example, Full Compass costs a hundred bucks a day or $220 per week, but it also depends on how much work you think you'll be needing it for.

An XL-1 is a fine camera, and it was a tough decision between it and a DVX-100a.

My suggestion would be to buy the computer first (assuming you can take the equipment home for capturing) and use the school's equipment until you no longer have a choice.

Get compatible with the school computers and borrow a camera like everyone else. Bythe time you can afford a camera, maybe you can get an HVX200 instead !! THAT would be worth the educational expense.

Good rule of thumb regarding electronics purchases... IF you can afford to wait... wait. The later you wait the cheaper it will get/and or the better the gear will become. IF you need the gear to make money now, BUY it now. The money you make will offset the cost, and you can resell the gear later and trade up.

if you are not going until next year, i would not buy a thing right now, not in the midst of a video production revolution which will change all the price breaks on all SD and possibly even HD cameras. the game will have changed by then, and you will be stuck wanting even the next new thing. your panny will then be yesterday's news....a lot will probably change in this field the coming year.

why not go to school and check out the convenience/inconvenience of using the school stuff before leaping to any conclusions about it? it can't hurt, and the money you can save meanwhile can apply towards whatever upgrades you actually need, instead of the ones you want? it seems like determining your needs before you even get started is a bit of putting the cart before the horse.

Don't be in such a rush to buy new equipment when you're not going to school till next year. You'd be surprised how similar Final Cut Pro HD is to Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5. I'm learning Final Cut in school, but I actually use Premiere Pro at home and edit all my assignments on it (more convienent for me then spending hours in the lab). I got my certification in Final Cut even though I barely used it, it's that similar.

What school did you go to that got you certified as a FCP user? Do most colleges that having editing courses with FCP get you certified?

Minneapolis Community and Technical College (www.minneapolis.edu) teaches both traditional filmmaking and narrative storytelling via video. I'd recommend the Video and Digital Arts Program as they are really big into narrative filmmaking with DV and are now getting more into HD. This is the program that teaches you Final Cut Pro HD and at the end of the program you have the option to take the certification test.

If Avid or Premiere Pro is more your style, you might want to look into MCTC's Media Production program, but I don't know if they do Avid/Adobe certification, but from my experience the Media Production program is the more technical of the bunch (not as creative focused).

With either video program, you can't lose.

Remeber that dvx100a uses 24p by cheating . You can get the same effect in post production. Well if you consider the price I believe it is ok. It is good camera though.

There is nothing true about that statement.

The DVX achieves 24p by actually running its CCD at 24hz, and sampling a full progressive frame every 1/24th of a second. It is as legitimate as any 24fps capture system, whether XL2, SDX, VariCam, CineAlta, F900, or film. They all capture one distinct frame, progressively, every 24th of a second.

And that's something that you cannot simulate in post to nearly the same degree.

Well maybe it is 24 f ok but it doesn't look as real 24p should look. I forgot the technique thay used to get 24 p but I will write about it later.

(insert smileys here)

As you already probably know, there is MUCH more to making a film than the camera. Sure, we'd all like to walk around with a Varicam or better, but that's just not going to happen.

Concentrate on telling a story, working with lighting, and recording sound accurately. The 953 will serve you fine as a "pick up" cam and a second cam when you check out one of the school cams.

Similarly, wait and get the lay of the land as to computer access and the workflow at school. A new computer may or may not be important next year, but that decision should wait until then, as today's computers will be cheaper, and you may find that something else may be even more important.

I think Marcin just doesn't understand the pulldown...

But yes, Riley, I tell you from experience as a fellow college guy with big dreams, that you should definitely WAIT until you need this. I'm not even joking on this one. The summer before last, I figured I'd need a good camera going into school, so I bought a GL-2. Shot like one film with that because I was too busy. So this past summer I sold it and then assumed this year would be so much better, so I bought a DVX-100A and the anamorphic lens. (Lost about $1000 from selling the GL-2 used, and then lost another $3000 for the DVX + extras. So in total I lost about $4000 by switching cameras.) Since last summer, I've usesd the DVX a lot, but nothing I couldn't have used the GL-2 for. In fact, if you look at the topic I just made, I'm just now starting to question even using the anamorphic lens.

And to think, just about a month ago, I had my heart set on buying an XL2. When in reality, I don't need any of it.

So hold off. Buy a computer, the computer actually is quite important, and it's definitely important to be compatible with what you're working on at school. (Plus FCP is just a better system in my opinion.) But as far as cameras go, sure, the DVX is nice and all, but it's not the best, and if you wait a few months, there will be even more good stuff out. Buy it when you need it.

Well maybe it is 24 f ok but it doesn't look as real 24p should look. I forgot the technique thay used to get 24 p but I will write about it later.
Again, I have to 100% disagree. It looks *exactly* like 24p should look. The motion rendition is absolutely identical to the motion rendering of 24fps film.

To determine that, I strapped a DVX to a 16mm film camera, and shot side-by-side footage of identical subjects, identical framing, panning and moving the camera, getting identical footage from each camera. I transferred the film to video, and split-screened it, and put the results on The DVX DVD, where anyone can look and see for themselves whether 24p footage looks like film-transferred-to-video. The results are identical -- the strobing, the motion, it's all exactly 100% like the film footage. Sure the colors, depth of field, overall sharpness etc. are different, but for 24p motion rendition, they are IDENTICAL.

I wouldn't buy a thing.

If the school uses Final Cut, I don't really see why you would need a Final Cut system of your own. They should give you enough time to edit your projects in Final Cut.

If not, you might be able to do offline/online. You'll have to export a project file from one system, which you use to re-capture all your footage on the other system. This avoids the file systems issue, and quicktime versus AVI, but does take time to re-capture footage. Or just edit everything at home... it doesn't make all that much difference whether you cut on Final Cut or Premiere.

Be aware if you buy a computer, it will lose value to obsolescence very quickly.

As far as the camera goes, I would wait till you get to school first to see what the availability on them are. Why buy a camera when you can borrow it for free?

2- College may be overrated. The degree, at best, would land you an entry-level job. Some entry-level jobs are really competitive but if you did your own thing + networked, you'd probably be able to land an entry-level job too.

School does give you:
A degree/diploma, which is useful for non-film/video jobs.
Networking opportunities with fellow students, because you're working with them.
Motivation to work on projects. Sometimes it's hard to motivate yourself to work on projects.
A broad education, so you learn a little bit of everything.
Gear + crew (your classmates) if you want to do short films (which sometimes can lead elsewhere).
Some of the teachersmay be good mentors for you and have networking connections.


If you already have some friends whoa re interested in film/video stuff and you know you can motivate each other, maybe just try to do your own thing, pool money for gear instead of spending it on tuition, and network (i.e. go to user grou's meetings) and try to find entry-level jobs.

School is primarily for learning how to learn. That's really what the big payoff is, plus all the friends you make along the way. Immerse yourself in the experience and keep an open mind at all times. Oh, yeah.. I agree with the majority of folks here who are advising you not to buy anything yet. Wait until you get there. Then see what you can actually get your hands on.

If the school uses Final Cut, I don't really see why you would need a Final Cut system of your own. They should give you enough time to edit your projects in Final Cut.


(kidding)

It's been a while since you were in school I assume ;-)

(/kidding)

There are NEVER enough resources for everyone - especially when it's crunch time and everyone is fighting for access to labs to finish projects all due at exactly the same time.

Besides, having your own gear (don't get the camera - do get the computer) gives you even more time and advantage to learn your craft and teach yourself and put you hopefully a step above and beyond all of the other students in the same perdicaments.

If the gear can't be afforded, that's one thing. But to say 'nah, use what's provided and don't consider extra effort' is IMO a real disservice.

Don't buy anything til you get there - you don't want to get the wrong stuff and make life harder than it needs to be ;-). But don't say to yourself 'eh, I can get by with what is here'.

( To clear up confusion, I'm talking about the mentality of doing 'just enough' as being a bad thing - being resourceful and creative with what you've got on hand is a valuable tool in the belt, but doing just enough is really only calculated laziness and won't teach you anything about using what you've only got on-hand :-) )

$.02

Listen to Barry about the DVX, not Marcin, sorry. It is an incredible camera and is TRUE 24p. As far as the computer, its true that the longer you wait, the cheaper everything becomes, but I would definitely take advantage of educational discounts while in school. Waiting is ok, but at some point you have to jump in. There will always be better equipment coming down the pipe, but you only have so much time here, and having your own equipment is a definite advantage over having to rent, borrow, or go to the labs to edit. 24 7 access to your own stuff is a great way to really learn.

Editing is a 24 x 7 event. Once you get to school, get a computer if you need to. Production on the other hand can be planned. Using school cameras, with the restrictions on availability, will make you a better filmmaker. You will be forced to learn how to pre-plan, how to schedule, how to get things done within a window of time, how to accept good enough "moving on....". Going back for a reshoot or for pickups will be a big deal, as it should be. It will be harder, but it will make you stronger.

Then again. isn't that true that is you want to edit in final cut or premiere you need to transfer at 30 frames which will give you 29.97fps?? Then after you go back to 24 fps. What if you would have dvc80 which shoots at 30 fps and then upload it to premiere or final cut??

Then again. isn't that true that is you want to edit in final cut or premiere you need to transfer at 30 frames which will give you 29.97fps?? Then after you go back to 24 fps. What if you would have dvc80 which shoots at 30 fps and then upload it to premiere or final cut??

Hi Marcin,

The DVX shoots in true 24p, just like any of the other 24p cameras. The way it stores the 24p on tape is what may be confusing you. The footage has to comply to NTSC standards and therefore all footage, regardless of what framerate it was shot with, is layed down as 60i. In the 24p and 24pa, a pulldown is used to conform it to 60i (2:3 pulldown in 24p and 2:3:3:2 in 24pa). When you capture into FCP for example, u can remove the extraneous blended frames in the cadence (24pa) to extract the orginal true 24p footage.

Its motion sampling is exactly 24fps. It is just layed to tape in 60i to conform to NTSC standards. Otherwise, the footage wouldn't play on our US television sets.

Hope this helps,

Galvan