The HMC40 has been available for a little while now. Any early adopters care to share their first impressions of the camera?

So far I am very happy with it. I come from consumer cameras (Sony HD1000, Canon HV20, Sanyo Xactis) and this is my first one with so many features and controls. There are low light limitations as well as CMOS issues, but I can deal with those.

Have the large 5800mA battery and it is good for around 7 hours. Tried my Canon .7 WA adapter on it and worked fine. The Rode Videomic is good until I can get the XLR adapter/Mic. Libec LANC works perfect.

I think for $2k it is a great deal and nothing out there right now is comparable for the price. I will post more impressions as I use and learn more about it.

While I don't own the camera yet, I did get a chance to "play" with it at DV Expo and record some footage.

Panasonic AG-HMC-40, Testing Gain Settings on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/6755296)

For a camera that is under $2,000 (street price) this camera offers a lot of nice features:

Records 720/24p (native), 720/30p, 720/60p, 1080/24p (native), 1080/30p, & 1080/60i
Gain setting from +0dB --> +24dB in 1 dB steps.
Built in waveform monitor
Very sharp image (Berry Green tested it to over 800+ lines of resolution)
Manual focus is smooth and easy to use
Smooth stop on zoom (has a variable speed on zoom)
Zebra stripes (User selects range)
Slow shutter 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30
Time lapse
All sorts of user adjustments and a whole lot of other features

You can't have it all for $2,000, so there are limits:
CMOS sensors will have possible rolling shutter problems (watch out for whip pans & camera flashes)
Low light recording is not as good as the HMC-150 (see below)

Using information that Barry Green posted in another forum, at +0dB gain, the ISO of the camera is 64. All cameras output more image noise as you increase the gain, but the HMC-40 isn't as bad as other cameras I've tried. There's going to be some debate as to how high is too much, but you can download the video file I recorded (see link above) and decide for yourself.

+12dB = ISO 256 (Reasonably clean video)
+18db = ISO 516 (May be upper limit)
+24db = ISO 1024 (If you must, but it will have strong noise)

Using a light meter and a shutter speed setting of 1/30 of a second shutter speed, you'll see that indoors at night, this covers most well lit locations, BUT in very dark settings, you are going to push the gain, lower the shutter speed, or record dark video.


On the other hand, if you plan on shooting video in daylight or well lit locations, the camera appears to do very well.


Bob Diaz

I saw it at WEVA and DV Expo, and liked it a lot....seems to be a very good IQ, very compact, seemed more substantial than others in its class. FWIW, I think it looks like a real winner.

While I don't own the camera yet, I did get a chance to "play" with it at DV Expo and record some footage.

Panasonic AG-HMC-40, Testing Gain Settings on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/6755296)

For a camera that is under $2,000 (street price) this camera offers a lot of nice features:


Low light recording is not as good as the HMC-150 (see below)


On the vimeo I cannot see any problems when gaining - no noise or anything - maybe you cannot rely on the low pixel image but it seems ok when gaining all the way.

If you are signed into Vimeo, it is possible to download a copy of the file in the 720/60p resolution that I shot it in. (In about 3 more days, the file will be deleted and converted to flash.)

When I play the source file on my 37" 720p HDTV and sit really close, some image noise starts to appear at +6dB, but isn't too bad. Beyond +18db, the noise is stronger, but in a pinch one can live with it. If I sit way back, the image noise is harder to see.

The HMC40 will not do as well as the HMC150 in low light, but in good light, it seems to do OK.


Bob Diaz

How would it compare to the GH1 specifically in the 720p at 60?

If you are signed into Vimeo, it is possible to download a copy of the file in the 720/60p resolution that I shot it in.

I can't find a way to log-in on the page your link goes to.

When I log-in at my page -- searching for Bob Diaz turns-up no such person. Moreover, I can't find a way to search for your video's title. Or, number.

Hi Steve,

If you log into Vimeo through your normal log-in, try the following search term(s):

HMC40, HMC-40, HMC41, HMC-41, HMC45, gain, HMC-45, test, camera, 3MOS, AVCHD, H.264, MP4

Using just HMC40 results in 17 different videos and mine is "Panasonic AG-HMC-40, Testing Gain Settings".

Search videos for 'HMC40' on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/videos/search:HMC40)

I hope this helps you find it. If not, try logging in and opening a new page with this link:

Panasonic AG-HMC-40, Testing Gain Settings on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/6755296)


Bob Diaz

Hi Bob,
I am still on SD100 looking out for better.

Your "gain setting test" is hampered by the fact, that it is apparently done with a fixed shutter speed resulting in increasing overexposure as gain increases. My SD100 would react exactly the same way, since there is no aperture/gain priority semiautomatic mode. Instead, decreasing shutter speed in manual mode would have opened the aperture to "open" and then increasing the gain automatically, kind of shutter priority in still cameras. That is how the SD100 works. The low light sensitivity of the SD100 appears to be 1 f-stop better than the HMC40: roughly 100 ISO at fully open aperture. It is pixel shifted like the HMC150.

Erich

Erich,

No question the test could have been done a lot better, but this was shot at DV Expo in the EVS (Express Video Supply) booth. The guys were nice enough to allow me about 10 minutes with the camera, so I had to rush to try as much as I could within the limited time.

In order to judge the noise level, I have to look for darker and darker things as the gain increases. The more solid the color of the area, the easier it is to spot the noise.

Berry Green measured the ISO of the HMC40 at 0dB and found it to be 64 ISO.


Bob Diaz

Not gonna lie, the low light sucks; the daytime is pretty good in mo opinion. I hate the design on the HDMI and USB port cover, it's ass backwards. But I am happy with my purchase.

The HMC40 will not do as well as the HMC150 in low light, but in good light, it seems to do OK.
I'd half expected the HMC40 to be better than the 150 in low light. CMOS v CCD should work strongly in it's favour, though against that it's 1/4" chips v 1/3". Presumably it comes down to individual pixel size in the end.

It seems that they've compromised the low light performance for megapixel stills ability according to the spec. My own feeling is that I'd rather have seen something like pixel-shifted 1280x720 sensors, and have sacrificed the stills ability for better low light performance.

Erich,

No question the test could have been done a lot better, but this was shot at DV Expo in the EVS (Express Video Supply) booth. The guys were nice enough to allow me about 10 minutes with the camera, so I had to rush to try as much as I could within the limited time.

In order to judge the noise level, I have to look for darker and darker things as the gain increases. The more solid the color of the area, the easier it is to spot the noise.

Berry Green measured the ISO of the HMC40 at 0dB and found it to be 64 ISO.


Bob Diaz

Judging from your clip, I'm surprised at how clean the image appears to be with the gain cranked up. If I crank my XH-A1 to 24dB, it's a bit more akin to adding a blizzard to the images.

We got an HMC-40 as our first HD camcorder. We use several Sony VX-2100 for weddings, which are getting long in the tooth, so I though we'd try the Panasonic as it has the SD cards and the price was right. The image in good light is impressive. Still testing it to see if we'll be able to use these for wedding receptions (with lights of course) or if we'll get HMC-150 cams to replace the VX-2100.

The HMC-40 is really small and ultra-lite, almost seems like a toy at first. But as you use it, you realize it's a well put together unit. It definately needs a WA lens though, for what we do at least. I found a Panasonic x.7 lens on eBay real cheap to try on it, seems to work pretty well, but it's still not real wide, more like a normal zoom range with the WA. The face detection seems to work surprisingly well, watching the little boxes follow the faces around is rather fascinating. We still have to test that some more to see how often you can use it, but early impression is it seems to work pretty well.

Over all, it's an impressive camera for the price. We are not throwing it into the mix too fast with the other cameras, we don't want to compromise our work by testing it in real situations unless we have backup footage from other cameras. So it will take awhile to really tell how much we can use it, or if we will have to just go with the HMC-150 cameras instead (which I'm assuming from what I've been reading would definately be good HD cameras to replace the VX-2100 units with).

Robert

I saw that Amazon finally had the HMC-40 in stock so I took the plunge and am getting it overnighted it to my office.

Two questions for those who have the 40:

1. How is the sound using the 1/8 mic input?
2. Is there a way to record in standard def? I'm thinking no.

This is the camera I will be taking on my upcoming Halloween cruise. I can't wait to see how it does in low-lighting situations such as in the nightclubs and dining room. I'll be taking my Comer 1800 light with me so that will be a big help. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Congratulations on your purchase!


1. How is the sound using the 1/8 mic input?

That's going to depend more on the quality of the microphone than the quality of the connection for a short cable run (e.g. shotgun mic on the handle). Where you will see significant advantages for XLR connections is situations where you want the microphone cable run a long distance from the camera - then the unbalanced cable to the 1/8" mic input might cause problems. I suggest you take a look at the Rode VideoMic if you decide to stick with the 1/8" input.


2. Is there a way to record in standard def? I'm thinking no.
No standard def recording. But you can put a 4x3 marker box on the screen so you can frame for standard def and then downconvert to SD in post (or you can play standard def out of the camera)

Well, luckily I do have a Rode Videomic, which I have been using on my Sony HDR-XR500V. Love them both.

I do mostly breaking news videos for our newspaper group's web site, and the Videomic has served me very well. Because the HMC-40 can't shoot in standard def, I probably won't use it for work. I've tried editing AVCHD on deadline, and believe me, it's not fun - even with a tricked-out Dell laptop running Premiere Pro CS4.

However, I've got an assignment this weekend to go ghost-hunting overnight at a local renovated theater. That would certainly put the 40 through its paces and since the g-hunting is not a deadline story, I could convert the files to SD to edit.

I'll report back next week on how everything went.

Sherri,

I just don't think ghost hunting with the HMC40 is the best route to go, the low light I have experienced, to include household lights has been mediocre at best. I have a feeling you will be quite displeased with low light.

No standard def recording. But you can put a 4x3 marker box on the screen so you can frame for standard def and then downconvert to SD in post (or you can play standard def out of the camera)


Rich,

We've been transcoding down to SD, but I've not been able to figure out how to put the 4:3 markers on the screen. Is there a setting in the menu somewhere for that? The only thing I've been able to find is grid lines for the photo mode.

Thanks,
Robert

Yeah, Mike, I did some testing tonight with ambient light inside a small restaurant that was closing after 27 years in business. Low-light video was OK - better than I thought it would be - but still not in the stellar category. Audio with the Videomic was really good, though.

I had planned to bring the HMC-40 to my g-hunting assignment to shoot interviews before the lights go out. My trusty Sony HDR-XR500V with Night Shot is going to be my camera of choice for the duration of the assignment. Gotta have that authentic g-hunting infrared look.

And another question about the 40 - does it have to have Panasonic batteries or can I use third-party ones? I am figuring that since Panasonic and Sony are technology partners, the Pannys have to have a chipped battery like the Sonys do. And did I read correctly that the 7-hour battery for the 40 has to have its own charger and can't be charged with the included charger? What??

We've been transcoding down to SD, but I've not been able to figure out how to put the 4:3 markers on the screen. Is there a setting in the menu somewhere for that? The only thing I've been able to find is grid lines for the photo mode.

It's in the SW&DISP SETUP menu under SAFETY ZONE choices are NONE, 90% (default) and 4:3.

YAnd another question about the 40 - does it have to have Panasonic batteries or can I use third-party ones? I am figuring that since Panasonic and Sony are technology partners, the Pannys have to have a chipped battery like the Sonys do. And did I read correctly that the 7-hour battery for the 40 has to have its own charger and can't be charged with the included charger? What??
Sherri, I don't know about the only Panasonic batteries, but I expect they will need to be "approved" I think there is an Anton Bauer battery (pricey) that will work. I have the big 7-hour battery. It uses the same charger that was included with the HMC40. It's pretty big and heavy but it does last a LONG time.

I had planned to bring the HMC-40 to my g-hunting assignment to shoot interviews before the lights go out. My trusty Sony HDR-XR500V with Night Shot is going to be my camera of choice for the duration of the assignment. Gotta have that authentic g-hunting infrared look.
The HMC40 is obviously the successor of the DVC30 but it’s too bad a certain feature didn’t make it to the HMC40.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-discussion/20755-could-bite-sony-pd170-vx-2100-a.html

It's in the SW&DISP SETUP menu under SAFETY ZONE choices are NONE, 90% (default) and 4:3.


Thanks for the info, Rich. I will say, the menu system is nice in some ways, but kinda complicated at the same time. Just not enough time in the day to play with it and learn everything.

Robert

Yeah, Mike, I did some testing tonight with ambient light inside a small restaurant that was closing after 27 years in business. Low-light video was OK - better than I thought it would be - but still not in the stellar category. Audio with the Videomic was really good, though.


Glad to hear that you are using it for interviews. I'd like to see your interview footage as I have one coming up Oct 10th. I did some pro-bono work at work on Friday and used a lavalier system, the audio worked quite well. Quite pleased with this little guy.

I'm considering the idea of selling my FX1, and purchasing an HMC40 with the proceeds. The biggest question in my mind is, will the HMC40 perform nearly as well as the FX1, in typical indoor situations around the house, like shooting clips of my grandkids in the living room (with just practical lighting), or will there be a noticeable step down in that regard?

I realize the 1/4" chips in the HMC40 are way smaller than the 1/3" chips in the FX1, but I'm also aware that imaging sensor chip technology has advanced significantly since the FX1 was introduced - newer 1/3" chip cameras clearly outperform the FX1 in less than ideal lighting.

How clean are the images from the HMC40, when employing considerable gain? Is it cleaner, when using gain, than the FX1? The clip Bob Diaz posted gives me that impression.

I'm considering the idea of selling my FX1, and purchasing an HMC40 with the proceeds. The biggest question in my mind is, will the HMC40 perform nearly as well as the FX1, in typical indoor situations around the house, like shooting clips of my grandkids in the living room (with just practical lighting), or will there be a noticeable step down in that regard?

I realize the 1/4" chips in the HMC40 are way smaller than the 1/3" chips in the FX1, but I'm also aware that imaging sensor chip technology has advanced significantly since the FX1 was introduced - newer 1/3" chip cameras clearly outperform the FX1 in less than ideal lighting.

How clean are the images from the HMC40, when employing considerable gain? Is it cleaner, when using gain, than the FX1? The clip Bob Diaz posted gives me that impression.

I think you will find the HMC40 sharper than the FX1 in good light. But low light may be a disappointment. I just did a quick search and consensus seems to put the FX1 ASA at about 150. The HMC40 tests put it at ASA 64. So the FX1 is at least one stop faster. Don't forget that now only are the sensors smaller 1/4" vs 1/3" but they are more dense (full 1920x1080 HD).

But in my uses (even indoors) it has been fine. Just add a little more light. The form factor and tapeless workflow is really nice.

I just did a quick search and consensus seems to put the FX1 ASA at about 150. The HMC40 tests put it at ASA 64. So the FX1 is at least one stop faster.
You can't judge relative sensitivities like that unless you know that they each have the same noise figure at the quoted gain. It's quite possible for one camera to seem insensitive, but have very low noise at the 0dB setting. That means it can stand a lot of gain, so actually perform better in low light than another with a higher quoted 0dB ASA rating.

The only way to tell is take both cameras somewhere dark, put in enough gain to expose them the same, then review the results on a decent screen. All the ASA numbers tell you is what f no you will have at 0dB gain in a given light level.

Think of digital still cameras - you can tell them to be any ASA rating you want.
Don't forget that now only are the sensors smaller 1/4" vs 1/3" but they are more dense (full 1920x1080 HD).
It seems to be even more than that. Panasonics description talks of "full HD 3MOS imagers, high-resolution 10.6-megapixel still photo capture", so I assume they the sensors must be even more dense than 1920x1080. Result is a sharp still image - but even worse low light performance.
But in my uses (even indoors) it has been fine. Just add a little more light. The form factor and tapeless workflow is really nice.
Has anyone compared it to the JVC HM100, which seems to be the most direct competitor? Almost identical form factor, and also SDHC recording. I'd be curious to know how they compare in low light.

With respect to comparisons to the HM100, yes that would be quite interesting to see. However, from a price standpoint the HM100 is competing more with the HMC150. But I too would like to see how they compare.

I don't know how JVC can justify the pricing on the HM100. Seems to me, at that price level, it really should have 1/3" CCDs - and the HM700 really should have 1/2" CCDs, at it's price point.

...
How clean are the images from the HMC40, when employing considerable gain? Is it cleaner, when using gain, than the FX1? The clip Bob Diaz posted gives me that impression.

I'm sure that there's going to be debate over how high one can push the gain on the HMC40, before the noise is bad. Given that this is subjective, it depends on how each person sees it.

The most critical will likely say +12dB or less.

I think that the majority will say +18dB is a practical limit.

I'm also willing to say that some might even put up with +24dB gain.


In viewing the footage on my 37" 720p HDTV set from 5 feet away, I feel that the +18dB is a reasonable image. Maybe +24dB if one is really desperate. This would translate to an ISO of 512 at +18dB and 1024 at +24dB.



Bob Diaz

Are there any problems with the 24p Native modes (both 1080 & 720) in FCP? I've used AVC-HD before, and it transcodes to ProRes fine, but wasn't sure FCP had compatibility for these native modes.

I'm looking at this camera to replace my HV30.
I know the low light blows chunks... and I'm no fan of CMOS... but all I'm interested in is having a 3rd stationary camera for a wedding ceremony... that's it.

I already have 2 HMC150's... so my curiousity is matching the camera up to them.

I have an HV 30 and the HMC40.
HMC40 has produced great footage.

I believe the HV30 is CMOS too by the way