Daniel, hilarious... thanks for the laughs. I second the motion for "post of the century" candidature.

I would just like to correct the record: at no time have I attempted to mislead people by claiming that I am programming in a basement. None of my locations around the world have basements.

Other than that one exception, your post is 100% accurate.LOL...what about spare bedroom???

In fact the firmware is finished and ready to download. Or is there anyone who believe it is different from the one in 7D?

The reason why we have to wait a few more months is that the legal department in Tramm Towers basement and Canon's alcoholic attorney wont be able to come to an agreement on the royalties and rights in shorter time.

Tramm Hudson is not an actual human being. "Magic Lantern" is actually the name of a multi-billion dollar corporation tasked with developing and improving the 5D2 firmware, and "Tramm" is just the alias used by dozens of their top software engineers. This gives you the false impression that it's just a single guy working in his basement somewhere.

I heard TRAMM/Hudson Corp. is actually a branch of Skynet.

Hey Guys damn this is good news. I always trusted my instinct that something will come good to the 5D. Thank you for the laught too. Do you think Edge finder is too hard to add to the firmware along with the super good new 24p and 25p capable of the 5D. Or maybe we have to wait for Tram to making that happen????

I heard TRAMM/Hudson Corp. is actually a branch of Skynet.

Nah, the Tyrell Corporation.

I heard TRAMM/Hudson Corp. is actually a branch of Skynet.

Nah, the Tyrell Corporation.

Oh, that's a relief -- I kind of had my suspicions that he was working for Keyser Söze.

-- peer

Daniel, that is a potential "post of the century" candidate you have there. Brilliant stuff.

Daniel made me giggle. lolz.

To bring back some seriousness :) Is anybody else concerned that the frame rate update could mess up Magic Lantern? I mean the conversion obviously will be done in software and will need extra processing power. Just a thought.

I must say I'm generally concerned when I see that ML gets bigger and bigger with each release. Are the processors in the 5D really that underemployed? All I really need from ML is the AGC deactivation and maybe the histogram. Therefore a "light" version with autoboot added that safely works on a future 24/25/30 fps 5D would be sufficient for me.

I second that.

To bring back some seriousness :) Is anybody else concerned that the frame rate update could mess up Magic Lantern? I mean the conversion obviously will be done in software and will need extra processing power. Just a thought.

I must say I'm generally concerned when I see that ML gets bigger and bigger with each release. Are the processors in the 5D really that underemployed? All I really need from ML is the AGC deactivation and maybe the histogram. Therefore a "light" version with autoboot added that safely works on a future 24/25/30 fps 5D would be sufficient for me.

I've raised this as a concern before myself. It could be possible that Canon would include in the update, code that would preclude the use of ML in its current form. Trammel's work with the 7D is proving that it is tough to get into it with ML, and one wonders whether an update from Canon of the 5D would also throw up additional roadblocks to the 5D.

I've raised this as a concern before myself. It could be possible that Canon would include in the update, code that would preclude the use of ML in its current form.

I've been thinking about this myself, i.e., that Canon might go the same route as Apple with its iPhone updates -- wipe out & make it very hard for unauthorized software.

-- peer

Fresh from my canon rep: the firmware update will most likely be in January, and it will permanently convert the 30p to broadcast 29.97

-andy batt
vimeo.com/andybattstudio
andybatt.com

I've been thinking about this myself, i.e., that Canon might go the same route as Apple with its iPhone updates -- wipe out & make it very hard for unauthorized software.

-- peer

First of all, Apple has never succeeded on that front. Within short order, jailbreaking and unlocking have always come back. So, good luck with that one Canon. But more seriously, just make sure you keep a copy of the older firmware I guess. Although then you might have to choose between framerates and ML, oh well...

just make sure you keep a copy of the older firmware

Hey all - as far as I know, and my canon rep was pretty specific about this, once you commit to the new 24p firmware (ie the one that isn't out yet) you cannot go backwards.

-a

Hi Andy,

I attended the Intermediate photo session earlier in the day. It was great. I learned a lot of little details on the still side of things.

Sorry I missed the video session in the evening. I saw your name on the billing.

And, yeah, I'd tend to trust the rep. He wasn't just some marketing guy. He was technically very competent - at least as a user, rather than a developer.

The "you can't go back" thing scares me a bit. I wonder if it will kill Magic Lantern and locks out the old firmware to keep the "hackers" out...

We will see...

ugh 24p or cropmarks, histogram and zebras.....hope this doesn't prove to be the case.

I can live without zebras. I can even live without crop marks. But if they take away Tramm's controllable audio levels, the camera will once again be worth much less.

Audio is a high priority, in my book. I don't often have the budget for a sound guy, so being able to pipe straight to the camera is just too convenient - and AGC means that's not an option.

If they (Canon) are smart, they'll implement ALL of Tramm's hard work (it would be nice if they gave him a royalty - buy him out, as it were - but, unfortunately, I don't see that happening) as well as give us their much anticipated variable frame rates.

But I'd guess I'm being uncharacteristically optimistic here...

I for one am hoping that Canon is taking its time on this upgrade, maybe to include some or all of those things. I think they have to understand how important that is by now and what it means to continuing sales. Since they appear now want to exploit the camera as a video camera too, maybe they will.

I'm not so optimistic about the audio but it doesn't hurt to remind Canon about this:
Here's what I wrote to my local Canon support.

"Please forward this to Japan. thank you:
Thanks a lot for preparing a 24/25p upgrade! There's just one thing missing from the announcement and that is manual audio gain control. Since the automatic gain control (AGC) is only usable with loud constant sound sources I currently record very good quality audio by using Magic Lantern together with an external audio amp. Without switching off AGC it's like listening to a waterfall anytime the AGC pumps up the volume in silent periods.
So please also include the option of e.g. four fixed dB steps just like on the Nikon D300s. This plus 24/25p would make me very happy and I'd promise to not use Magic Lantern again :-)"

Hey all - as far as I know, and my canon rep was pretty specific about this, once you commit to the new 24p firmware (ie the one that isn't out yet) you cannot go backwards.
If they change the layout of the NVRAM when the new features are added, I can see why this would be an issue. It is possible to check the version number in the structure and adapt to older releases, but doing the same thing in a forward manner would be difficult.

I am certainly excited to see Canon being responsive to customer requirements and adding the 24p/25p/29.97p frame rates to the 5D Mark 2-- it is a great camera and their additions will make it even better. Ideally they would merge in all of the features from Magic Lantern (http://magiclantern.wikia.com/), although I suspect they will be much more conservative and we will need to port my code to the new firmware version to retain the audio control, waveforms, etc.

Canon might change the new 5D firmware boot loader to do all of the checks that the 7D firmware does when loading a new firmware image, including using SHA1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHA_hash_functions) as an HMAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAC) signature, but I'm confident that we'll be able to figure it out and sign our own firmware images. Progress is being made on loading new firmware onto the 7D and it is only a matter of development time now before we have a Magic Lantern port to it.

Very nice update Tramm. Looking like the future of these Canon DSLRs still looks bright
because of the Magic Lantern !

Best of luck with the 7D - and 24/25p 5D Mark II ports!

I have owned my 5D for about a month now (after going through SR-12, HF200, and an HV40 with Letus Flip) and have to say that I have been very pleased with it so far. I went and played with a 7D today and found many things that I really liked about it, one being the $1000 savings, the other was the frame rate options. But now with the firmware upgrade on the way and learning about Magic Lantern it makes my decision to return it for the 7D VERY hard.

Hello all,

I went to the launch of the 1D Mk IV at Park Cameras in Burgess Hill, UK. Whilst there I chatted to the guys from canon about the 5D MkII. I managed to glean the following.

1) The update should be available in Jan/Feb

2) It should include 50p 60p (although he sounded a little sketchy about this)

3) The AGC will remain in place

I had a little play with the 1D Mk IV but no memory cards were allowed as the cameras where pre production, so I couldn't really tell much from the LCD on the camera with regards to image quality, although saying that the LCD itself is very nice, and an improvement over the 5D MkII.

I hope this is of interest to people.


All the best,

George

Wow, wouldn't it be nice if they also added 60p to the same firmware upgrade for the sport and event shooters. 60p would give the ability to do the smooth slow motion.

They just may...have a look at this:

YouTube - Createasphere - Canon Intensive Workshop - Canon EOS HD Video: Shoot, Post and Deliver - Playback (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmS6r4VnHmI)

I can't tell whether he is saying the other cameras have that option, but they are adding 24p to the 5D, so collectively, the cameras will have those options, or if he is saying the 5D will have 60p too... would love it.

It sure sounded like the 5D2 would get the same framerates as the other cams.

It sure does sound like it... but there was a little bit of editing in there, so who is to say that they weren't talking about the 7D? Ohhh... I can only wait and hope my 5D gets 24p and 60p...

GLIMPSE OF NEW FIRMWARE FOR THE 5D MARK II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUsNNADnjsk&feature=player_embedded

Don't understand.. I didn't see anything...

It's Tim Smith of Canon USA with an overview of their HD-capable Digital SLR product line.

...and for those who can't be bothered to watch the whole video... he briefly mentions the firmware upgrade (the one earlier this year) and that 24p is coming in 2010 to the 5DMkII, right at the end (but you all knew that already, right?)

Yeah, it's a brief mention near the end about new menu option in the 5D Mk. II which shows the new frame rates (24p, etc.).

we getting some 60p at 720p up in here?

GLIMPSE OF NEW FIRMWARE FOR THE 5D MARK II

YouTube - Createasphere - Canon DSLRs - EOS 5D Mark II, EOS 7D and the new EOS 1D Mark IV - Playback (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUsNNADnjsk&feature=player_embedded)



5dMKII menu options includes 24p ,720 60p and SD mode also 25p and 720p 50p are there, you just need to select PAL instead of NTSC

I have watched that film a few times. I am not so sure that screen is showing the 5D frame rate selection. In listening to his words, I can't be sure he isn't lumping the three cameras all togeter as a group and then referencing that between them you have the available frame rates..... I hope the 5D upgrade will include 60 p. but, I am not seeing this as confirmation yet.

I agree, Chris. I watched it several times too.
It sure sounded to me like he was talking about the options availble in the "Canon VDLSR Family" not the 5D specifically.
I'm sure we'll get 24&25P, and if we get more, I'll be thrilled. But right now, I'm thinking the the 60P is only going to be on the 1D and 7D.

SURE hope I'm wrong. I'd be SO happy with 720/60p.

Yeah...I watched this closely last week and even went as far as trying to type out what he said. But it seems that he only mentions 24p for the 5Dll. Those other frame rates were the ‘family” of DSLRs. The camera he’s using is the 7D by the way.

This has gotten all sorts of buzz, but as far as I can tell, they haven't said anything new and the screenshot is just from a 7D isn't it? Nothing to see, move along now...

Agreed, nothing new here really; merged w/ our existing 5D Mk. II firmware update thread.

Has anyone any ideas/rumours as to when the release will happen? I got a shoot at the end of Jan I'm planning for - be very handy to know when it's coming out....
cheers

"Early 2010" is all I've read around the web - not exactly specific enough for your needs just yet ...

thanks Andy - here's hoping !

Sometimes I base my observations on common sense and gut feelings. I've watched the video a few times and if I HAD to bet what we are going to get, I'd go with the 4 modes shown on the screen from Tim Smiths presentation. I've watched the video a couple times, and while I wouldn't bet my house or life on the 4 capture rate modes, I would make a bet that we will get those 4 modes on the 5DmII.

This firmware is a long time in the making. Canon is a big company with lots of resources. It would be stupid to not give the 5DmII the same modes as it's cheaper brother the 7D.

I have both and editing them together is too much extra work. I need the same rates/modes on both cameras.

The 5DmII was first delivered the last week in Nov 08. Until two months ago, they were still back ordered. Many people believe the film/video purchases are a small part of the overall sales, but I'd guess they are substantial. My guess is this is a HUGE profit center for Canon. Why not make it better and spurn some more sales to keep the money train going? I know I'm excited for a Jan/Feb release. Again, Jan/Feb is a guess, a gut guess.

I don't think it's about them being "stupid" or not, I think it's about the hardware capabilities of the 5D2. But, if it can be done, I agree with you, it'll be the same as the other models.

However, in terms of it being a huge profit center, I guess it depends on how you think about it. It could be just cannibalizing high end video camera sales, in which case it's a huge profit suck. Also, I think you may be surprised by how few sales are from primarily video people when compared to primarily photography people, I'd be shocked if it was even 5% of sales to be honest.

From my personal experience Canon was no where near my radar until the 5D. I now have the 5D ( sold my Nikon D300 and all Nikon lenses ) along with three L series lenses, some old nikon glass and a few non L lenses, macro 100, 15 fish eye.

How many times would you say that needs to happen to make Canon some money:) I can't even begin to imagine how many people have not bought other brands cameras and gone with the 5D, so I have to disagree that it could be a profit suck.

I am happy with the 30p but would really like to try 24p. I read about the 7D overheating in warmer climates so that is OUT for me.

Well Philip Bloom stated on his blog that the screenshot in the video is NOT the 5d but the 1d mkIV. How he knows this is not quite clearly stated.

720/60p would be an awesome option to have BUT ..... I've seen a few posts on the 7d threads (and in other forums as well) that a few owners have experienced overheating problems when utilizing the 720/60p mode. So I don't know if the same would apply for the 5d since the 7d has two digic processors vs. one for the 5d.

However, in terms of it being a huge profit center, I guess it depends on how you think about it. It could be just cannibalizing high end video camera sales, in which case it's a huge profit suck. Also, I think you may be surprised by how few sales are from primarily video people when compared to primarily photography people, I'd be shocked if it was even 5% of sales to be honest.

Bill, there might be a flaw in this logic. Canon does not have high end video portfolio as of today. In their video department they have not responded to the tapeless challenge of Sony EX series and stuck with HDV format with their so called "high end" cameras, in the same time they came up with a ton of consumer HD cameras. Apparently their response was nothing but HD recording with their still cameras.
If they wanted anything from video guys, this was the only thing they did for about 2 years. Your 5% is just a guess, right? I think its not more than 5% overall who went to the Canon route with prosumer HD video.
On the other hand Canon is the only one today that can give you the desired film looking DOF out of the box without the overpriced spinning glasses sitting on crippled looking and ridiculously long rigs. If you don't want that hassle you buy into an another, which is the limitation of the VDSLR of these days. But for the latter you pay only the fraction of the price.

One day Canon's move will be listed in the marketing books as another example of blue ocean strategy, where they have created their own market by value innovation and involved people who would not buy pro video cameras otherwise and attracted many who would have bought a competitor.

In the meantime they have kept their costs low (no entirely new video cam line development, just a video add-on to their SLRs), also compensated their late response to the tapeless HD challenge. With the introduction of the really low cost 7D they will involve more and more people who previously had nothing to do with pro HD.

And - additionally - they will boost the sales of their glasses. Smart.

I'll buy most of that, makes sense to me.

The 5% was just a guess, but I'm not sure it's being interpreted the way I meant. I was just saying that it's my personal belief that there are orders of magnitude more people buying the 5D2 primarily for photography as opposed to buying it primarily for videography. That's not to say the new segment isn't wildly important, but just saying make no mistake, it's a stills camera first and foremost, and I personally believe that's why the overwhelming majority of people buy one.