Hello everyone,

Less than a year ago, I bought an EX-1, Letus, wireless lavs, rail system; the works. I was ready to start my career as an independent videographer. I did four projects in Japan: two live events and two b-roll/interview projects. Since I've been back, I haven't used my rig at all. It's getting harder and harder these days to find decent videography work around me, and money's getting tighter.

I've seen the work that's come out of the 5D and 7D and I'm very impressed. When they first debuted, I had seen some of the video, but I just brushed it off as a gimmick. After seeing what people are getting out of them today, I'm eating my own words. Also, since they're considerably cheaper than what I currently have, I think I could kit it out and still come out cheaper than what I spent on my EX-1 rig. So this has got me thinking about adopting one of these guys into my workflow.

So, if I were to sell my current rig and pick up a 5D/7D, what would I be gaining and/or losing? I don't know much about the workings and the workflow involved with using one of these DSLRs. So where would these cameras excel over my current rig? Where would they be inferior to my current rig? Thanks!

Wing:

Not sure why you are contemplating changing out all of your gear if you are suffering from lack of work? Makes no sense. Even though these cameras cost less, you will take a good loss in selling your EX1 rig and you will have to buy lots of costly accessories and lenses for a new DSLR. In the end, I doubt if you will be saving anything significant. The 5D MKII/7D are great but having one won't increase your workload.

I would put your time, money and effort into networking and landing more work. Buying new gear is just going to cost you. DSLRs are not video cameras, they have terrible audio, ergonomics and limitations for video work. Not that it cannot be done but going from a nice video camera like the Sony to a DSLR may prove to not be a good move for you.

Dan

I'll say pull the trigger and dump the EX1 kit. Here's why:
1) The EX1 is still brilliant and you can still get a good price on it. But the earth is shifting beneath our feet. It's already been superseded by a new line. Sell now or face the possibility eventually having to take a bath on it. That 35mm adapter in particular is looking archaic.
2) The 7d is cheap!
3) The portability factor. The 7d is a tiny, compact kit.
4) Since the 7d is still primarily a still camera, it's reasonable to expect that it'll hold its value better than video cam. eg, I just sold a 20d for exactly what I paid for it.
5) The lenses you invest in will hold their value.

Financially, I think it makes sense to ebay the Sony.

What a loaded question.

I have been an EX1 owner for about a year and a half. I've shot dozens of interviews, conferences, and the like with it. I was not "wowed" by the release of the 5D/7D like many people seemed to be.

I am currently involved in a production with the 5D. There is no tripod being used on this production. It is all shoulder-brace, Fig Rig, and maybe a Steadicam, but we haven't used it yet. Though I am not doing the post for the project, I am playing with footage in post to see how it reacts. This has given me some insight and perspective into the camera.

I will offer some insight into the 5D as I see it from an EX1 owner's perspective.

1. The codec isn't as good. I'm looking at tracking shots, walking shots, etc. It's good, but the EX1 looks better.

2. There is no ND. So you NEED a mattbox or some other way to control light if you want to maintain shutter speed and aperture.

3. Wild sound recording is not anywhere close. If you plan on doing sync sound this may matter to you.

4. The lack of Live Preview mode is a killer. Plug in your HDMI to send to video village, and you are dead in the water. The only way to do this is to split the HDMI signal and use a hotshoe mounted monitor or something similar.

5. The DOF is beautiful if that is what you are looking for. This is great for narrative work. It would be REALLY challenging in some other instances. And honestly, I am not interested in putting on a mattbox to shoot a soccer game.

6. The footage handles nicely in post. I was able to drop the footage straight into FCP and Vegas. Same files. I wish the EX1 was that easy.

7. The placement of the battery is TERRIBLE for video work.

8. They charge you extra for A/C power. Like $180 extra... Come on!

9. It would be REALLY nice to have an articulating LCD because you are often not in a position to be directly behind the camera. Interviews would be particularly tough as you'd have to run behind the camera to check framing all during setup.


All in all, I think the 5D is a LOT better suited to filmmaking than other kinds of videography. When you can control the lights, the camera movements, and you have rails and other accessories, it's not a bad system at all. But it's a whole other world if you are not in control of some of those elements. I can't see saving much money if any dumping the EX1 and going to this system. And you'll still be limited on continuous recording. You'll spend half the cost of the EX1 trying to buy lenses for the 5D that match what the stock EX1 lens gives you. By the time you add rails, follow-focus, mattbox, etc., it's probably a wash. I'd hang on to the EX1 for now, and see what the RED boys come up with. THAT may prove to be the upgrade we've all wanted.

Just my observations from my limited time with the camera. We've got half a month to go, so I'll see if anything changes for me.

I've been shooting with a 7D for the last couple of days and I'd say that while I can see that it might cause the sale of my brevis 35mm adapter, it certainly couldn't replace my EX1 altogether.

If all of your work is 35mm adapter type stuff then I'd say it might be worth the change and learning to work around the limitations of the 5D/7D.

You'll struggle though if you get an event to shoot or a corporate video where DOF isn't the primary concern, the EX1 is a much better tool in that situation in my opinion.

I have to agree with that. The EX1 is the best thing out there in its price range and produces great quality video. If you already own one, keep it.

Hello everyone,

Less than a year ago, I bought an EX-1, Letus, wireless lavs, rail system; the works. I was ready to start my career as an independent videographer. I did four projects in Japan: two live events and two b-roll/interview projects. Since I've been back, I haven't used my rig at all. It's getting harder and harder these days to find decent videography work around me, and money's getting tighter.

I've seen the work that's come out of the 5D and 7D and I'm very impressed. When they first debuted, I had seen some of the video, but I just brushed it off as a gimmick. After seeing what people are getting out of them today, I'm eating my own words. Also, since they're considerably cheaper than what I currently have, I think I could kit it out and still come out cheaper than what I spent on my EX-1 rig. So this has got me thinking about adopting one of these guys into my workflow.

So, if I were to sell my current rig and pick up a 5D/7D, what would I be gaining and/or losing? I don't know much about the workings and the workflow involved with using one of these DSLRs. So where would these cameras excel over my current rig? Where would they be inferior to my current rig? Thanks!

It would excel in DOF control and low light if you have fast lens, what you see on the internet are not real, it hides a lot of defects like aliasing, moire, so imho, no way it should replace your EX1, but only as additional camera for the shalow dof type of shots.

I shoot with an HMC150. The D7 I ordered will be arriving tomorrow. As Paul Joy indicated, the D5/7 is a reason to sell you 35mm adapter, but not your EX1.

The SLRs are a great 2nd camera for shots requiring depth of field control, for shooting B-roll while out and about, or possibly for special low light conditions. I wish I had an EX1, which has the best image quality available. I would never trade it for an SLR as there are too many penalties to pay in convenience, sound, etc..

Mys suggestion is to keep your EX1 and when you can, add the 7D. I'd also look for new ways to make sales and let the 7D be the reward for your success. A new camera won't mean more profit. In fact, you'll look less professional shooting with a "still" camera. However, if you insist, I'll trade my new D7 and lenses for your EX1. I'll be in NOLA in a couple of weeks.

I'm with Brian Luce.

A friend of mine who owns a gear rental place in town once said:

"The two most important things to know are when to buy a camera and when to sell a camera..."

If that EX1 is just sitting on a shelf I say dump it and and grab a 7D. I really think selling that Letus as quick as possible would be a good call as well. The Letus value will drop like a rock after all the indy film guys start working with the Canon DSLR stuff.

The great thing about the 7D is it's CHEAP and if you need to dump it you will have no problem selling it. But then again this is just some strangers opinion...

"The two most important things to know are when to buy a camera and when to sell a camera..."


That's my real point. The EX1 and 3 are the best cameras south of 10k. But looking at purely from a business pov, it makes sense to sell now while its value is still high.

It's not that the 7d is better, it isn't.

Just lookin at the numbers here.

Sell them and buy what? There's nothing below $10k that's comparable at this point. Nothing even close if the EX series is really what you need.

I think Perrone's spot on.

I have a 5d2 and 7d - they're great for portability, low light, dof control, stills... but I use my Z5 for day to day work.

In a production environment you will soooo miss built in NDs, swivel viewfinder, ergonomics, run-time, moire/aliasing free footage, auto-focus, etc etc...

If you're doing your own projects and have time on your hands, sure the 7d is great. But if you're working with clients in varied production situations, often times it won't be up to the task.

My next camera will be an EX series cam.

I don't know which market you're trying to work in, but the EX1 seems to be working out in business terms for many people (I suspect a lot more than the people using the current DSLR cameras for video). I'd address your own marketing before dashing out to buy new kit, especially when there are a number of camera options coming out in the near future and these DSLR cameras specs seem to be changing so fast.

I wouldn't work on the base price of these cameras, by the time you add the accessories the cost will go up.

...A friend of mine who owns a gear rental place in town once said:

"The two most important things to know are when to buy a camera and when to sell a camera..."

...

Truer words were never spoken. Of course, I have yet to figure out either half of that equation.

If you want to get out of the business and just have something you can shoot your personal videos then I think it makes sense to sell the EX1.

If you're still trying to get work, I think you'll have a tough time marketing yourself as a videographer with a 7D. It has serious limitations - especially in the audio realm. I don't know of anyone looking to hire 5D or 7D shooters. I personally wouldn't take my chances with a 7D in a live event.

I always figure I have about 2-3 years to get my money's worth out of a camera. I just sold my V1U and got an EX1. I couldn't be happier with it. I think it's the best bang for the buck out there now.

If you want to get out of the business and just have something you can shoot your personal videos then I think it makes sense to sell the EX1.

If you're still trying to get work, I think you'll have a tough time marketing yourself as a videographer with a 7D. It has serious limitations - especially in the audio realm. I don't know of anyone looking to hire 5D or 7D shooters. I personally wouldn't take my chances with a 7D in a live event.


I know people that make money with video using cameras inferior to the 7d. I've never heard of clients asking for a particular brand/model camera. Most don't know an EX1 from a chainsaw.

That may be true, but when you tell them that you'll have to stop for a 5 minute cool-down break in the middle of their hour long conference... they'll get that.

I couldn't agree more with your Perrone.

The camera is only a tool in the process. If you find it difficult to earn money with your camera, selling it and getting an inferior camera isn't a very smart business decision. Unless you are an independent filmmaker and have time on your hand to make the 5D/7D work. It just isn't suited for field production work with tight deadlines or long form.

Thanks for the replies everyone. It's good for me to read a variety of thoughts and I think I've come to the conclusion that I will keep my EX-1. To be honest, I didn't know what the limitations of the 5D/7D were until reading bits and pieces that everyone had mentioned here. I really had to sit and consider what type of video I wanted to shoot and I realized that it doesn't matter what I want to shoot, I just want to be prepared for any kind of scenario. With that in mind, the EX1 really does give me the flexibility to shoot anything that a client may want.

I suppose that I posted the initial question because I loved the look that I was getting out of the Letus, but because of it's size and weight, really made me reconsider whether I wanted to add 10 extra pounds of kit just to get shallow DOF. Not having much knowledge about the 5D/7D, I thought they'd be able to replace the entire rig. But I'm thankful that you guys added bits and pieces of information about these cameras. Yes, they do produce beautiful shots. Yes, they would work extremely well as film camera. But they do have limitations that prevent them from being truly flexible in the video field.

I never really thought of the ergonomics of shooting video with a DSLR. My EX1 isn't the most comfortable to use, but I think it's certainly easier to hold it for longer periods of time than to hold a DSLR out in front of me. A lot of you have also brought up the things about the 5D/7D that I hadn't considered, like adjustable viewfinder, proper audio recording, time codes, built-in NDs, autofocus, etc. I've never shot video with a camera that DIDN'T have those things, so I guess I never considered what it would be like NOT to have those things.

Some of you had mentioned that it'd be a good idea to sell the 35mm in favor for a 5D/7D, and that doesn't really sound out of the question for me. I mean, I love the look I can get out of the Letus, but it's a pain lugging everything around. A lot of shoots I do are naturally lit; rarely do I ever set up lights for any of my shoots. So the light loss is a killer for me with the Letus + lenses. All in all, my 35mm kit (Letus, lenses, rails, supports) have cost me between $2k - $3k. I think I'd be lucky to get even half of that back if I sell it. Let's say I wanted to sell my 35mm gear to get a 5D/7D. How much do you think it would cost me to kit one out, supposing I'd use it mainly for B-roll and occasionally as a B-cam for my EX1 (No audio)?

Thanks again to everyone that gave me their opinions and insight on this matter. I love my EX1, but wasn't sure if the 5D/7D would have been a better decision. I'd love to get one of these DSLRs, but with the EX1, I think I'm happy.

I think you got it.

The best would be a combination of the EX and a VDSLR for specialized shots and you can use it as a still camera as well.

Sell the Letus and use that money towards the 7D.


To respond to Brian's post about still cameras not losing their value, I would have to repectfully disagree.

The still market is pumping out new models at a frantic pace and the older models just can not keep up with the sensor developments.

Check Ebay on the going rate for a 30d. The auctions with bids end around $350, a fraction of what they sold for new.

Lenses hold their value while (imho) the bodies sink like a rock.

I recently (today) both sold my Redrock M2 Encore rig and picked up a Canon EOS 7D. The sale and the purchase pretty much evened out thanks to coupons and the newness of the M2 Encore. I was faced with the same issues (shallow DOF vs increased size/weight of rig) and feel I made the right choice.

Like you, I thought I would just replace our outdated HVX with the 7D, but after reading enough about the drawbacks of shooting video with a DSLR, I learned enough to realize that was a bad choice. However, selling our Redrock rig to pay for the 7D was a great decision.

it totally depends on what you do and how you do it,
if you have more than one 5/7D on the set, you can shoot anything,
but most of the time I am one man show, and for me to shoot event or a broadcast with 5/7D- no way, i use EX1, but 5/7D is an excellent B cam, and even shooting alone, I do all my cutaways with 5D
I'd rather replace my EX1 with scarlet, or whatever comes with larger sensor next year, but I'm keeping 5D. I just wish it didn't have that 12 min threshold.

Wing, the only things you'd absolutely have to have for a B-roll camera would be the LCD viewfinder attachment. The Zacuto is the most expensive, at $400, the IDCPhotography the cheapest at $200. You'd also need one or two ND filters With the viewer, you can hold the camera up to your eye to help steady it for hand held, just as you do with any handycam format type camera--left hand cradling the lens, right hand on the right side, eypeiece up to your eye. Obviously you'd need CF cards, and a Juicedlink or something equivalent if you want to run mics into the camera (once Magic Lantern is out), or a separate recorder. There are lots of goodies you can buy, but the viewfinder attachment and ND filters are about the only must-haves at first.

The thing about shooting with an HDSLR--it's all about the lenses, so you'll find yourself accumulating more lenses and more expensive lenses as time goes by. But you can probably live with the kit lens for awhile. I agree about keeping the camera you have but trying to sell the DOF attachments. They're too much trouble anyway (just my opinion), unless you have a pressing need for shallow depth of field all the time.