I would like to purchase a field recorder that has 4-8 channels of input & output.

It must be able to record timecode. It looks like the cheapest (but very good) options are approx $7,000-$9,000US.

Does anyone happen to know a more cost effective option or do I have to bite the bullet?

Have you looked at the Edirol R-4 Pro?
http://www.edirol.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=30&Itemid=385

(If 4 tracks is your bare minimum)

Take a look at the Sound Devices 788T. $6000 USD or about $6500 AUD.

The 788T is a dream, love that piece of gear.

If you are working off of a cart, you could think outside the box and buy a ProTools system w a laptop for less. We have used an MBP and a Pro Tools Digi 02 for years for 6-8 channel shoots and it works very well. No good for run and gun or ENG but for talk show, panel discussions or even narrative, it works pretty well and is cheaper than a 788T.

Others have used just a regular laptop and software (I can't recall the name of the software but it is made specifically for this and is not that expensive). Of course, you still need the laptop (a pretty fast one), drives and a good set of mic preamps.

Update, just checked, Vosgames has discontinued Boom Recorder software because of Snow Leopard. That is a real loss, it was unique software and there was a market for it VOSGAMES (http://www.vosgames.nl/products/BoomRecorder/)

Okay, so go with Pro Tools, it will be significantly less. Unless you are run and gunning, in which case you need a hardware solution. Sound Devices are really top of the line pro gear, well worth the cost.

Dan

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, they are all good solutions.

Bruce, i had looked at the Roland previously but I had misread its capabilities. I was under the impression that although it had 4 xlr inputs, it would mix down to only 2 tracks.

Thanks for that. Just as a point of reference, from B&H it would cost me approx about $2700AU inc. delivery and tax. That's less than half the price of everything else.

I will check this unit out this week and probably pick one up if it checks out. Thanks!

I think that the biggest thing lacking in live event video production is good quality audio. Although I already use a Fostex field recorder and Zoom H4n with good mics, they lack the ability to automatically sync up to the footage on the timeline. It's very time consuming, especially if you wish to stop and start the camera(s). If I had it my way, I would never record audio directly into the camera. The difference of using an field recorder is extremely apparent.

Take a look at the Roland R44.

Good performance at a reasonable price. 4 independent tracks. Phantom power. Limiters. Easy to adjust gain and gain trim for each channel.

The Oade Bros. makes a modification which makes the preamps quieter. I don't have a need for that but some do.

Ordering for Oade Brothers Audio: Edirol R44 Concert (http://www.oade.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=OBA&Category_Code=EDIR44-Concert)

I would like to purchase a field recorder that has 4-8 channels of input & output.

It must be able to record timecode. It looks like the cheapest (but very good) options are approx $7,000-$9,000US.

Does anyone happen to know a more cost effective option or do I have to bite the bullet?

Bite the bullet.

The best of the lot is the NAGRA VI (http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/products_nagra_vi.php).

It beat everyone else to the TEC Award for the best recorder at the New York AES this year.

Has the best mic. pre-amps and the best A/D and D/A converters of any portable.

Ergonomic and easy to use with a fast and simple to use menu when you need to change things. Has the most accurate timecode clock on the market.

In Europe it's a little cheaper than the SD 788T and is better. Quality wise it's NAGRA VI in 1st place, SD 788T in second place, with everything else a long way behind.

I have had my own NAGRA VI for over a year now and am absolutely delighted with it - I took the high capacity battery option which gives 12-15 hours uninterrupted recording.

I do high quality music recording where I cannot compromise on quality at all - hence the NAGRA.

Don't compare recorders like the NAGRA VI and 788T with the like of the R-44. Although the R-44 is excellent value for money, it's like comparing a BMW with a push-bike!

Thanks John that is definitely some food for thought.

From your experiences though, is the Nagra overkill when it comes to recording people speaking in a live event environment? What i mean to say is, for the extra few grand am I actually going to notice a difference that is worth the money?

I have never used either and it is hard to get my hands on one to test so I would value your feedback.

Personally I don't like to compromise on quality whatever it is.

If you want to try the Nagra VI, talk to the local agent (and they are only round the corner from you):-
Broadcast Workshop Pty. Ltd.
474-476 Victoria Street
P.O. Box 32
North Melbourne
Victoria 3051
Australia
tel: +61 3 9329 7655
fax: +61 3 9328 3866
info@broadcastworkshop.com
broadcastworkshop.com

But be aware that with an excellent recorder you will also need microphones that are up to the job.

The 788T is a dream, love that piece of gear.

If you are working off of a cart, you could think outside the box and buy a ProTools system w a laptop for less. We have used an MBP and a Pro Tools Digi 02 for years for 6-8 channel shoots and it works very well. No good for run and gun or ENG but for talk show, panel discussions or even narrative, it works pretty well and is cheaper than a 788T.

Others have used just a regular laptop and software (I can't recall the name of the software but it is made specifically for this and is not that expensive). Of course, you still need the laptop (a pretty fast one), drives and a good set of mic preamps.

Update, just checked, Vosgames has discontinued Boom Recorder software because of Snow Leopard. That is a real loss, it was unique software and there was a market for it VOSGAMES (http://www.vosgames.nl/products/BoomRecorder/)

Okay, so go with Pro Tools, it will be significantly less. Unless you are run and gunning, in which case you need a hardware solution. Sound Devices are really top of the line pro gear, well worth the cost.

Dan

Just borrow a SD 788 for a concert recording a week ago. Absolutely gorgeous master piece. Post working now, and I am totally satisfied with the sound quality. Wish I can afford one ASAP.

I highly recommend the SD 744T, I would actually recommend a 702T over an R-4 Pro as well. Yes, I would give up 2 tracks for an excellent high quality TC generator.

Dude, with your budget you shouldn't even be looking at Edirol or any other budget recorders.

Bite the bullet.

The best of the lot is the NAGRA VI (http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/products_nagra_vi.php).



I recently shot a show were the production sound mixer used a couple of Nagra VI's (and a very loaded cart full of other equipment) where the sound was so clean, it required almost no post work. Of course, having a really great production sound mixer (Peter Meiselmann) was the most important part of that equation, but having great hardware doesn't hurt either.

I now have a Nagra VI / SD 442 combo for "sit down" work (and a Sony PCM-D50 / SD 302 combo for "run 'n gun" work) because of that experience.

Any one tried Sonosax MINIR82, SX-R4? Curious on the performance compared with Nagra, Sound Devices.

The 788T is a dream, love that piece of gear.

If you are working off of a cart, you could think outside the box and buy a ProTools system w a laptop for less. We have used an MBP and a Pro Tools Digi 02 for years for 6-8 channel shoots and it works very well. No good for run and gun or ENG but for talk show, panel discussions or even narrative, it works pretty well and is cheaper than a 788T.



The 788T has much better sounding mic preamps and A/D converters than the Digi 02 by a long margin.

You get what you pay for.

Don't omit the Aaton Cantar and the Deva from consideration either.

Thank you Steve, I know Aaton Cantar, but it seems a little older than SD788, and much bigger is size. Deva and Cantar are much more expensive than the pricy SD788. Almost double the price. What I like 788 is the size is the smallest among all these high end recorders, and very easy to operate. The things I don't like 788, is the limiters cannot be activated when more than 4 tracks are used at 96KHz sampling.

True, PT will not sound as good as Sound Devices, but these days, I am appalled by how many shows I have delivered that never even have an audio sweetening pass, much less any real sound design or a mix. The sad fact is that except in high end work, the video editor has had doing all of the audio and the final mix thrust upon them by cheapo producers who will let stuff just be "good enough".

Video editors, for the most part, are terrible with audio and I have cringed at some of the sound issues that some shows I have produced that have been delivered to the client. But they passed QC, passed muster with the client and my EP was glad at the extra few thousand dollars we saved by not doing sweetening, dialogue editing and a final mix. As someone who used to own a small audio post facility, this drives me up the wall. But when you don't control the budget, most people these days will deliver "good enough", not excellent. I have fought this battle several times over the past few years and have lost each time to money. And to a point, I see their point. If the client and QC don't care, why should we spend an extra $2-5K making the shjow SOUND great? (insert sarcasm).

Pro Tools preamp quality vs. Sound Devices is a very fine point that would be totally lost on 90% of the shows I produce, I am more concerned by just putting a lousy sounding audio mix done by a video editor who is clueless about audio.

Dan

I saw the Tascam HS-P82 at AES in Oct. An interesting product, designed to compete with the other 8-trk.s. I wouldn't want to use it in a bag for any length of time though. It also can record an additional stereo pair for dailies or 2-trk mixes. Full TC support, and some other unique features including a very nice display and controls. I 'think' recall touch screen features. The street price is to be around $5kusd.

I hear ya Dan... I heard more than a few video editor's mixes that make me cringe...

Did you ever decide? Everyone did list some pretty good choices but also look into the Fostex PD606 if your still in the market for one.

Sound Devices 744T
Sound Devices 788T


I finally got the chance to use a Sound Devices mixer(442) on a set and man the sound it has is amazing. High quality mixer.


Nicole