Hello all -

I've been working with the Sennheiser 416 P48 mic and loved it. Worked wonderfully outside and almost all my shoots. But I'm now looking for an indoor mic to compliment my equipment and thought that I'd ask here. I've been using the 416 inside, which of course worked well enough, but I know that there are far better mics (non-shotgun) for indoor shoots. Any suggestions you may have will be greatly appreciated, as I just don't know much about which mics are better for particular situations.

Hi Brian,

have a look at the Sennheiser MKH-50 or the Schoeps CMC641. Both are considered great mics for indoor (boom) purposes. At the very least look for a hypercardioid (not shotgun) mic.

Both of these look pretty great. I'm going to have to spend some more time doing some research on both. New, these things look a bit pricey for me. I picked up my 416 for about $700. I'd love to be able to find something for near the same price if possible. I'm not overly familiar; what's the difference between the Senn 416 and the MKH-50? Thanks for your thoughts!

Brian:

You may find this to be helpful As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone (http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html) you can compare the CMC 641 and the MKH-50 with the samples I recorded. Both are outstanding mics, but very different.

Let us know what you end up buying and why.

Dan

I certainly will. I didn't have too much trouble with the shotgun inside; I mean, I can't say that I had anything else to work with at the time. Obviously though, there are better choices somewhere. I'll take some time this evening to really listen to your clips and get back to everyone.

Audio-Technica (http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/af0ced13084351f0/index.html)
The AT4053b consists of two modular subassemblies: an AT4900b-48 body and an AT4053b-EL hypercardioid head capsule (both available separately). Additional interchangeable capsules are available in omnidirectional (AT4049b-EL) and cardioid (AT4051b-EL).


AKG (http://www.akg.com/site//powerslave,id,2,nodeid,2,pcategory,10,_language,EN,country,EN.html)
SE 300 B + CK93 capsule

So what I'm pretty much looking for here is a hypercardioid condenser microphone? I'm looking to shoot feature scenes in rooms that may have considerable reverb, and though my Senn 416 didn't have too much trouble, I just want to make sure that I'm looking into the right things.

Correct, although reverb per se isn't the issue, shorter period reflections are. Shotgun's tend to colour the sound when in a space with a high ratio of reflected to direct sound. Hypers use a different principle to get their directivity and are much less prone to those distortions.

Thanks Steve, that helps. I want to understand as much as I can before I make a purchase. Per usual, I greatly appreciate all the recommendations and help everyone has offered!

I really like the Audio Technica 4053 as well. I packed it around for a few years and it has held up well. It sounds as clean as the 4073- kind of sterile, but I'd say it's 85% of a mic costing twice as much, the 8040 and the 8050. So on the higher end, the 8000 series from Sennheiser may intrigue you.
Sennheiser USA - condenser recording microphone, MKH 8000 Series, - Professional Audio (http://www.sennheiserusa.com/professional_wired-microphones_studio-recording-mics_mkh-8000)

If you're interested in hearing indoor examples of the 8020 (Omni), 8040 (Cardioid) and 8050 (Super-cardiod), plus the 416 here are our recordings: Microphone Polar Patterns - Video Examples to learn from at DVcreators.net (http://www.dvcreators.net/microphone-polar-patterns/)

Guy,

I'm not sure if you did those video demonstrations or not, but they were most helpful. It was great to see "visually" the patterns of the different mics, and be able to determine which to use for what.

Interestingly, I can't imagine why anyone would have any use for an omnidirectional mic, since it picks up everything. Unless you just want to record an ambient source for background.

Thanks for the link (and videos if they are yours).

Cheers.

Jonathan

Guy,

I'm not sure if you did those video demonstrations or not, but they were most helpful. It was great to see "visually" the patterns of the different mics, and be able to determine which to use for what.

Interestingly, I can't imagine why anyone would have any use for an omnidirectional mic, since it picks up everything. Unless you just want to record an ambient source for background.

Thanks for the link (and videos if they are yours).

Cheers.

Jonathan

I'm glad that you found the videos we produced to be helpful. That was the intent, to help educate and reveal our findings so that others could benefit from the results and make better informed decisions about which mic to use for what purpose. These videos were shot with the higher end Sennheiser's, I'm kind of wishing we did them with the Audio Technica series that Bruce recommends or midrange ME series Sennheisers as the 8000 models at $1k+ are priced out of reach for most. They are however, something to aspire to!

Bruce also recommended the AKG, which is a fine choice. So a list of indoor mics to explore, research and listen to may look something like this:

Mid to low range:
AKG SE 300 B + CK93 capsule
Audio Technica 4053b
Oktava MC012
RODE NT3 (note: heavy)

High end:
Sennheiser 8050
Schoeps CMC641

Note that depending on the room and how reflective it is, a shotgun may be able to perform double duty both indoor and outdoor. So if you're like the original poster and just want something to match a 416, hmm maybe even consider a Sanken COS11 lav... if it was good enough for Will Smith on Men in Black..... plus24:Peter Kurland"Walks The Line"withSankenLavalierMics (http://www.sekd.com/news/050406_Sanken_Kurland.asp)

And if you want to hear the differences between a 416, a cmc641, an E6 and an EMW, with commentary, watch this.

Give it a minute or so to download.

http://idisk.mac.com/tyreeford-Public/Video/Ty%20Ford%20Mic%20Tutorial%20VIdeo.mp4

Use good headphones or good monitors.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty, thanks for the video. Quite helpful.

Jerry

And if you want to hear the differences between a 416, a cmc641, an E6 and an EMW, with commentary, watch this.

Give it a minute or so to download.

http://idisk.mac.com/tyreeford-Public/Video/Ty%20Ford%20Mic%20Tutorial%20VIdeo.mp4

Use good headphones or good monitors.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Thanks for posting this example Ty. I find myself referring people to this vid all the time. It really is helpful.

Guy,

Thanks. Please feel free to "sticky" it if you wish.

I've spent untold minutes explaining the principles behind these choices, but talking about audio is like singing about chemistry. Hearing REALLY helps. As rough as this little video is, allowing the viewer to see and hear the difference is a powerful communication.

side note 1: this was the very first video I ever shot. I borrowed a friend's XL2 to see if I could work it. In searching for something to shoot, this is what I came up with.

side note 2: The nice people at B&H picked up my little book Ty Ford Audio & Video | Book: Audio | 978-1-60643-676-952495 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/568363-REG/Ty_Ford_Audio_Video_978_1_60643_676_952495_Book_Audio_Bootcamp_Field.html)
this past year and I'm happy to say, the results have been quite good for us both. :)

Regards,

Ty