I could not find the thread that talks about taking clips from the CF cards and cutting them with out loosing quality. The clips would be played back by HDMI from the Nano off the CF cards onto HDTV for presentation.

I have tried FC and Compressor but both reduce the bitrate to 50Mbps and I shot at 100Mbps and 220Mbps.

Could you set up an Uncompressed Project?

John I tried that and the files are huge and it will have to render to make that happen.

My goal is to run the clips in their native XDCAM 422 100Mbps codec. Than on a second card run the I-Frame clips.

Dear Paul,

I have been trying to find the post you mentioned. It is here somewhere.

If I remember correctly, just set up a ProRes timeline, drop your clips into the timeline.

If the clips are not modified, they will be output unchanged.

(I am doing this from memory)

Edit: Note: Aaron Newsome posted better advice, see Post #8, below.

Hi Dan,

Happy Thanksgiving

I do have to modify the clips by cutting them and doing a string of clips. No effects or text just straight clips. I will look into this more on Friday and post my findings.

Tommy Schell posted a while back about a place for setting a FCP project that instructs it to handle footage natively except for clip modifications which will be handled as ProRes rendering.

But the same problem you are trying to overcome - output at only 50mbps will still occur.
When will the NLE's work correctly for output.

I wonder if Edius will properly output a full native quality MXF file. Not near my machine to try it.

Thanks John,

Yea I can do it with out a problem at XDCAM 422 50Mbps output. But this is a talk that will highlight the 422 100Mbps footage compared to the 420 35Mbps clips.

Put the files on your FCP timeline, trim away the not wanted footage. Use Media Manager to create new clips at 100% quality, with junk removed, no re-compression.

Aaron I will give that a try thanks.

In the past I have only used Media Manager for Project Backup onto external Raid 1 drive. Good to know it also has this option.

Aaron I figured it out. Using a XDCAM 422 timeline there is not compression. Then Media Manager out as Copy with only "Delete Unused Media from selected items" checked. Played at full res 220Mbps in my test from nano out HDMI. But it only played the full clip. Now to try the cut one.

Weird now it won't work. The Nano says 480p while playing and the clip won't run. The HDTV says no signal.

Still hunting for the problem.

See next post for answer to my problem.

OK I found a great method that has stunning results for mixed format and bit rate play back from the Nano HDMI out. Thanks Mike for you help on the phone.

1. First I import the Nano clips into FC from my RAID drive still in Nano native .MOV format.

2. I cut the clips as needed and drop them on a time line. The timeline is set to XDCAM 422 50Mbps. This makes all the files the same format since you can not mix bit rates and formats on the CF card for playback. My clips are different bit rates and formats. Some are Long GOP 100 & 140Mbps, and some are I-Frame 200Mbps.

3. Export a QT movie with only straight cuts.

4. Use the Convergent Designs File Converter to convert to .MXF.

5. This step was my problem in the last post that a call to Mike at CD solved. I still had the old manual on my computer, my bad. Make Non-Fragmented Copy of the files all cut together from the FC QT now a .MXF file to the CF card as one file.

Result: Plays perfectly and from looking at individual files at different bit rates compared to the files exported at 137Mbps (nice surprise) I can not tell the difference on a 40" HDTV being played off the Nano HDMI out.

One more interesting find I found today with this process when putting files on the CF cards.

When you make the Non-Fragmented Copy make sure you have your CF card installed prior to starting. I found that if you put the files to be copied in the left box of the Filer Converter and then install the CF card and pick the file on the card you will have playback problems. Having the CF card installed prior to opening the Files Converter I did not have a problem

I repeated this problem three times to make sure it was really the case.

Thanks Paul for all the work to find this workflow and then reporting the successful method.

Hi,

thanks for checking this. I will just add that during the file conversion, if the destination folder is a CF card volume, the conversion should be a non-fragmented write out to the card. This would eliminate the separate step of a non-fragmented copy to the card after conversion.
And then in this case one would want to follow the earlier mentioned tip of inserting the destination CF card before opening the converter.

Tommy Schell

So, to combine the info and set it up for future reference as it is really important to get the full quality instead of a downgraded output, would the following workflow summarization be correct?


Nano/XDR Workflow to Maintain Full Quality Playback
from CF Card(s) out of Nano/XDR to a Monitor

(Nano has HDMI out – XDR does not)


1. Import the Nano clips into FC from the location stored on computer drive still in Nano native .MOV format.

2. Cut the clips as needed and drop them on a time line. The timeline is set to XDCAM 422 50Mbps. This makes all the files the same format since you can not mix bit rates and formats on the CF card for playback. If original clips are different bit rates and formats (i.e. some are Long GOP 100 & 140Mbps, and some are I-Frame 200Mbps) they cannot be played back out of the Nano/XDR.


3. Export a QT movie with only straight cuts.

4. Insert Compact Flash card(s) into the Nano or XDR. Then open up and use the Convergent Designs File Converter to convert to .MXF. (The Nano/XDR must be on and have compact flash cards inserted BEFORE opening up the C-D file Converter Utility Program)

5. Make the destination folder for the completed conversion file on the CF card volume. Choose a “Non-Fragmented” MXF conversion of the QT movie made in Step 3.

Result: Plays perfectly and from looking at individual files at different bit rates compared to the files exported at 137Mbps (nice surprise) I can not tell the difference on a 40" HDTV being played off the Nano HDMI out.

Workflow thanks to info from Paul Cronin and Tommy Schell

Thanks Mike doing that in one step makes sense.

John #2 is not correct. You can mix bit rates as I did on all of my testing. That is why the bit rate came out at 137Mbps. Some where 100, 140 Long GOP, and 220 I-Frame.

#4 I did not copy the clips into the Nano. I copied the clips onto the CF card while it was inserted into my Lexar FW800 card reader.

#5 you do not make a folder on the CF card it is already there you just select the folder as the destination. You need to have the CF card formatted from the Nano then the folder will be made.

Last night I played the same clips at Abel Cine Tech during their great XDCAM PMW-350 release event. The clips looped for hours without skipping a beat.

Thanks for the corrections.

But now we are back to the problem of taking a chance with the Mac intermittant damage of a CF card connected to it via firewire or usb reader.

John I have run 4 TB through my Lexar FW800 card reader with out loosing a frame. I don't see a problem. You need to format the cards on the Nano! Do not erase or do anything to the CF cards but Non-Fragmented copy or drag and drop clips off the card onto your Mac. Then reformat in the Nano and done deal. Seems like a simple flawless system to me.

I apologize for my confusion; but I am honestly confused when I try to follow this and write a clear concise workflow for myself.

And it is extremely important as we do a lot of trade shows and your experimentation and workflow would be of tremendous help to us; if I could get my head around it.

If you ever find the time, would greatly appreciate it if you could post a final step by step workflow.

I think MANY others would find it important to be able to demonstrate the awesome full quality of footage shot and recorded to a nano or XDR that has been cleaned up/edited.

Again, apologize for my confusion.

Thanks for the feedback John,

That is a problem with some of my post they run on to the next post in my thought and I need to be clearer.

I will take your advice and put in a post that is a step by step trying to think of every detail and post it today.

Thanks much Paul. And no, it is not your problem. I just get easily confused.

More importantly, I thank the 3 of you for doing this experimentation and then posting the info for the rest of us.

This is my method for using the Convergent Designs Nano as a high quality play back high from a Final Cut Pro 6.0.6. Timeline.

I have tested this method with single bit rates and mixed bit rate clips (XDCAM 422, Long GOP 100, 140 Long GOP, and 220 I-Frame) off the Nano, and with native Sony EX codec 35Mbps 4.2.0. All worked well with stunning results.


1. Using a Lexar FW 800 Compact Flash card reader copy the clips from the CF card folder }UPD{ to your RAID drive for editing. I select the clips then paste them in my RAID folder for Final Cut scratch drive.

2. Open FC and start a new project or use an existing project.

3. Create a new Sequence using the Final Cut XDCAM 422 50Mbps settings.

4. Double click on the clip in your bin with the native imported Nano clips so it appears in the Viewer window.

5. Play the clips in the Viewer using the “J”, “K”, “L” keys so you have the ability to quickly select where you would like your clip to start and end. You might have to click once in the Viewer so the clip will play if you are in another section of FC.

6. At the beginning of the clip where you would like to cut the clip press the “I” key for the in and at the end of the clip where you would like to cut press the “O” key.

7. Select the cut clip in the Viewer and drag it to the Insert box in the Canvas window. This will put the clip on the timeline at full resolution. If you have different bit rates and formats (Long GOP and I-Frame) no problem just drop them on the time line. Remember the lower bit rates will be increased and the higher ones lowered to average out the rate. I have not noticed a problem with the lower bit rates at the higher average.

8. Once you have the timeline set with your clips. DO NOT add effects or transition since this will cause a render and YOU DO NOT WANT TO RENDER THE TIMELINE!

9. Export a QuickTime Movie.

10. Use the Convergent Designs File Converter to wrap the .MOV files to .MXF. Tommy Schell has suggested during this step to Non-Fragment copy to the CF card at the same time. I have not tried this I have been storing the .MXF files in a folder for quick access and then I Non-Fragment copy the files to the CF card. Note: It is very important to make sure the card can handle the bit rates. If the whole timeline is 220Mbps I-Frame the card must be rated for that speed from CD. Also make sure the card is formatted in the Nano that you will play from prior to copying the clips onto the card with the above method.

11. Insert the CF card into the Nano for play back. Here is the setting I used on my Nano during playback. If Dan or Tommy thinks I have missed and important setting since I don’t show all let me know.
Under System
Files format = MXF
Files size = 100%
Video
Play Prog>PFS (checked)

12. Scroll to the clips, which will be the name of the Sequence and highlight the clip. Press play. Give the Nano a second and it will start playing and looping the clip.

I hope this helps. Please let me know what does not make sense and I am happy to try and clear up the process.

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your detailed post.

Everything looks good to me.

Dan glad it looks good to you.

The Nano was shinning at Abel Thursday night for the launch of the Sony PMW-350 camera. The play back is a wonderful options that looked stunning on Abel's high end Sony broadcast monitor. Shows how well wide latitude untouched Nano footage looks off the EX1.

Thank you Dan, Tommy, and Convergent Designs team the Nano keeps amazing me.

Thank YOU so much Paul for all this effort. Very, very helpful.

You are welcome John let me know how you make out?