Back with Vegas 7 I built a computer from the specs found on the Videoguys.com site.
I've been quite happy.

I don't feel like building again, I was wondering if anybody has any good experience with either a Dell or HP station equipment with I7 Intel? HOw are the motherboards on the Dell and HP?
What does anybody suggests as a decent machine to edit HDV/HD with Vegas (
Thanks
Larry

Dells and HP PCs have proprietary motherboards. As a rule, they don't overclock. They do build PCs that are overclocked at the factory.

I have read of many unhappy experiences with Dell as a result of poor firewire and esata performance, and have experienced those issues myself. I can't imagine going back to Dell or HP. I've had many Dells and a few HPs.

The reason I mention overclocking is because with the i7 920 processor (the best value for an editing processor) the most attractive benefit of that processor is the ability to overclock a huge amount. You can get huge performance gains and get a lot more speed for your money this way.

I am not a techie, but I found it simple to overclock the 920 from 2.4 or whatever it is, to 3.8.

Theoretically, you could go to Micrcenter if you have one where you live, take your old case, pick out your own parts and they will assemble it for you for under $100.

So while you have stated you don't want to build your own, in my case I don't recommend either unless you go with a worstation, and I doubt that I'd be happy with anything less than $3000 or more. I can get similar or better performance for much less cost by building my own.

If you have the patience to read through the VERY long thread below you will find system specs for systems.

Also you will read MANY complaints about Dell esata, etc. I personally even had issues with Dell motherboards and firewire. I had mobos replaced three times and firewire cards twice.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-happens-vegas/138334-any-core-i7-users-yet.html

Interestinng. Jeff's experiences do not mirror my own. We have an installed base of approximately 800 Dell workstations running Vista. Dell is our workstation platform, and gets refreshed every 3 years. We also have an installed base of over 200 HP servers. All running Microsoft server based OS's.

My editing machines are all Dells, including my T5400 at the office, my Precision M6300 laptop (which I am using to write this note) and my 2 other Dell machines that I use for transcoding and other ancillary tasks.

I have been exceptionally pleased with my Dells, and as an organization we have been very pleased with our Dells. Ironically, AVID is known for it's bulletproof reliability in editing. HP is their platform of choice on the PC side. Some of the most demanding video customers in the world are using AVID on HP.

At this point, I would say I have personally owned or used about 10 Dell machines. I've never had any trouble with any of them, and each was working perfectly, when it was replaced with a newer model. I will caveat that with the fact that we tend to purchase workstation class machines which are expected to be operational 8-12 hours per day. They have strong ventilation, and premium components. We also do not over-clock units. We purchase the fastest machines we can afford, and leave them that way.

If you are a home user, tinkering with your machine is one way. But when you are being paid to use the machine in front of you, whether it's running Excel, Photoshop, or AVID, you owe it to yourself to buy a solid machine, and let it run the way it was engineered and tested.

Larry, go to videoguys website and look for their recommended systems. I think they recommend HP and Dell, with the emphasis on HP, and they say you should get a workstation, not a consumer model.

Perrone, while your experiences are valid of course, and you likely know more about computers than I, I think that many if not most every Dell owner in the previously mentioned thread has had an issue with their machine, though I could be wrong. I'm sure my comments will draw out every happy Dell owner, which is not the point. I was one of them years ago.

Their lower end workstations are notorious among some for being "a tad" underpowered. What was ironic in my last Dell experience I had been warned in this forum about the low spec PSUs, and sure enough, my $3000 RAID workstation came with a puny 375 watt power supply. I now know Videoguys recommend 750 as best. Thanks to that experience I learned a lot about minimum PSU requirements, and now configure my own PCs. You'd be right if you said that I selected the PC, and it was my fault, but $3000 and that's all the PSU I get? I shouldn't HAVE to know about PSUs when I'm spending that kind of money. Now I do know.

If you run one/two hard drives and one external you can get by with the lower end workstations just fine. Dell customer support for business machines is VERY good, but it didn't do me any good when my machine was down waiting for a tech.

If you spend relatively big bucks you can get a bigger PSU, but the cost is too high for me. Instead I have a huge case, lots of HDs, PSUs that will last me for awhile. If I need a faster machine, all I have to do is swap out MBs, put in a new processor, maybe some ram, and I have a new machine for less than half the cost of a new one.

Ah yes, I see what you mean. I think our only real failings with the DELL machines have been monitors. They fail regularly. I'll have to take your word for the PSU issues. Our standard desktop machines only use a single drive. And the occasional external USB. Of course my Edit workstations will have 2-3 internal and 1-2 external drives and none have had isssue, but I am buying big-time hardware for those.

I agree with you on the price / performance ratio of the higher spec DELLS's and especially HPs. They costs a boatload. But at some point, you really need to look at what you're doing. If you are running a business (wedding/event vdieography, sports, etc.), and you are installing hardware RAID, and doing other manner of significant work, doesn't it make sense to buy hardware appropriate to that? I mean my current Editing system was a $4500 purchase, and the laptop was $3500. But these machines are in use 10-14 hours per day. I knew they would be, and bought accordingly.

Like you, I have known numerous folks to have issues with Dells. As well as other brands. In many cases, I suspect it came from over clocking, or user upgrades. And using systems beyond engineered spec. In some cases that was not true, and things just went wrong.

But there is a reason we have 4 hour response 24/7/365 on our machines. :) I *LOVE* that HP actually calls us to let us know that one of our hard drives or fans have failed in one of our remote servers and they have already dispatched a technician with a replacement part! Yea, it costs us real money, but as a 24/7 shop, that is what our user community demands.

Thanks for all your replies

I've checked the prices of HP and Dell workstations and frankly building a system according to the Videoguys configuration is much cheaper.
So I guess I'll have to build one more time.

I'm wondering if those dual Xeon are as good as the I 7?

FWIW, I looked at HP workstations earlier today for kicks and found less powerful systems than mine for several thousand dollars, it's insane.

You are right Perrone, with one or two drives it is safe. My previous Dell had places for 4 hard drives, and when I added two to the raid configuration that came with the system, that is when the issues started. I think I was running like 6 esata drives also. I just always assume (wrongly) that all editors use tons of drives like me, which is not true.

Larry, I have bragged before that I have dual PSUs and bunches of drives, and I have never regretted the bucks I spent putting this thing together. Moving most of my externals to inside the case was something I am SO glad I did. I still have 4 externals along with the 8 internals, and I love the freedom it offers to have exact copies of all my projects and video files, and room to store them for a few months if need be. (By the way, I don't recommend the 2TB drives...best to raid 1GB enterprise drives for speed...I have both and the 2TB are SO slow (relatively speaking).

Of course compared to some (I forget who it is that has 20 drives in some exotic raid configuration) my system is peanuts, but it is much more than I could ever afford from a manufacturer.

As it stands, it would easily cost $7k or more to replace this unit with an OEM, and I built it for under $1500 + hard drives...I estimate they cost well under $2K, so for under $3500 I have 1250 watts, i7 at 3.8Ghz, 12GB ram, and around 12tb of hard drive space. Not bad for the money.

I'm wondering if those dual Xeon are as good as the I 7?

I don't think so, but only because most software isn't coded to take advantage of them. Shame too.

...My previous Dell had places for 4 hard drives, and when I added two to the raid configuration that came with the system, that is when the issues started. I think I was running like 6 esata drives also.
...I have dual PSUs and bunches of drives, and I have never regretted the bucks I spent putting this thing together. Moving most of my externals to inside the case was something I am SO glad I did. I still have 4 externals along with the 8 internals,
...I have 1250 watts, i7 at 3.8Ghz, 12GB ram, and around 12tb of hard drive space. Not bad for the money.
Jeff, I'm going nutz here. I've been all over specs at newegg and manufacturer's sites, and I can't find any power consumption data. Do they expect us to spec a power supply by trial and error?

I'm trying to figure out if 750w will cover x58 MOBO/i7-920, overclocking, 12GB RAM, GPU, burner, system drive, 2 raid drives, and one more archiving removeable drive (caddy) - the info does not seem to be available!

Any ideas here, have you come across a configurator for PS or ???

***edit***
I appear to have answered my own question, there are a number of PS calculators online, Computer Shopper has some links in this thread (http://forums.computershopper.com/showthread.php?t=662).

Apparently the above is OK for standard clocking, and also for moderate overclocking - I've done these calcs upping the system & cpu loading to 100%, as for extended rendering. The default sys/cpu loads are lower in the calculators.
***end edit***

Yes, 750 should be adequate, buy if you haven't got a case yet you might consider one that holds a second power supply...that way you can add an inexpensive 500w if needed and you'll be able to handle anything within reason.

Seth, There are PSU calculators at the PSU manufacturer's websites, I think most of them have them. I personally use a Zalman PSU, but don't remember if they have a calculator or not on their site.

Look at this calculator and choose the Pro version. Very worthwhile.

eXtreme Power Supply Calculator v2.5 (http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp)

Back with Vegas 7 I built a computer from the specs found on the Videoguys.com site.
I've been quite happy.

I don't feel like building again, I was wondering if anybody has any good experience with either a Dell or HP station equipment with I7 Intel? HOw are the motherboards on the Dell and HP?
What does anybody suggests as a decent machine to edit HDV/HD with Vegas (
Thanks
Larry

I had awesome sucess with performace and price with my 64 bit machine built by CyberPower Inc. - UNLEASH THE POWER - Create the Custom Gaming PC and Laptop Computer of your dreams (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com) I started with a base machine then added more memory, vid card etc... I use Vegas Pro 9c and had am happy with the speed and stability of the new system. Make sure that you tell them what you're using the computer for. The only issue I had with them was they put the OS on the RAID 0 video drive! They/we fixed it by walking me over the procedure over the phone. Good luck!

Tony, that site looks great, I like their options, and the brands they use. I'd shop there in a heartbeat if they were reliable and trustworthy. I love the looks of the Silverstone Black Pearl Case, very cool. Nice link, thanks.

Well, I've read a thread on this Vegas Forum about so many problems with Vegas 9, I'm wondering that, since I'm at the hinge of two processor technologies, whether or not I shouldn't go Mac with FCP
What do you think?

Thanks for all your replies

I've checked the prices of HP and Dell workstations and frankly building a system according to the Videoguys configuration is much cheaper.
So I guess I'll have to build one more time.

I'm wondering if those dual Xeon are as good as the I 7?

Well, I've read a thread on this Vegas Forum about so many problems with Vegas 9, I'm wondering that, since I'm at the hinge of two processor technologies, whether or not I shouldn't go Mac with FCP
What do you think?

Well, you'll certainly solve one set of problems... and trade them for an entirely new set.

Larry, I second what Perrone says. What you've been reading is a rash of people with issues (me included), but moving to another NLE will only change the issues to those you will have with any NLE.

On the other hand, my friend that uses that uses Final Cut Pro has Motion and other tools that allow him to create the most amazing DVD menus I've ever seens, things one could only dream of in DVDA. Occasionally I've been tempted to move to another NLE, but I have so much time invested in Vegas I hesitate to do so...I'm so busy with running a business I just don't want to take the time to bother with another.

It does sound a bit contradictory, leaning toward DIY to save a few bucks, and then looking at going the Apple route (most expensive hardware).

The best reason for DIY (in my opinion), is the ability to put together a computer with top notch, reliable components (economically).

I really wouldn't rely to much on Videoguys recommendations for DIY computers. No slight intended, but while they obviously have built some DIY computers from components, it is clearly not their area of expertise.

Also, trying to classify system recommendations, sort of along an entry, mid-level, heavy duty type scale, for video editing workstations is just overly simplistic. You really need to at least take into account what software will be run on the workstation. For example, Vegas just doesn't need a video card with screaming fast hardware 3D acceleration. Won't do a dang thing for Vegas. Zip, nothing, nada. If you are going to be using a single monitor, even on-board graphics (so long as there's solid hardware support for accelerating the major HD codecs - like with AMD's 780G chipset, for example) can work just as well as some blazing fast, set-your-hair-on-fire video card that needs it's own dedicated liquid nitrogen cooling system (and save you a chunk of change).

RAM memory is another place folks waste money. Expensive, "fast" memory won't speed up anything for you, when editing and compressing video. I've tested cutting memory speed in half, and compressing with various codecs, and there is just no significant difference in encoding times. Simply get economical memory that works reliably with your motherboard. Spend money on more memory, not faster memory.

When it comes to power supplies, that's probably the single most important component to make sure you get premium quality. Anything but a premium quality power supply essentially puts every other component in your system at risk. Fortunately, these days, Corsair's entire line of power supplies are about the best you can get, and prices aren't typically any higher than reasonable alternatives. There are other reputable companies making decent power supplies (like Antec, for example), but quality does not seem to be as consistently top-notch, across the board with every model, as with Corsair (and prices aren't notably better in general - often you can pay more for the same or less quality). Buy anything that's a lot cheaper, and you'll probably regret it eventually.

A lot of folks are under the illusion that AMD CPUs are a poor choice for editing systems. Not always true at all. If you want to build a system around a quad-core CPU, there are basically two classes of CPUs to consider. (Note that for some situations, like light duty HDV editing, and certainly for DV editing, dual or triple core CPUs can often be quite adequate.) There's Intel's second generation Core 2 and AMD's Phenom II, which are very roughly equivalent (especially in terms of performance per dollar spent on the CPU), and then there is Intel's Core i7, a significant move up in performance.

Core 2 and Phenom II are very suitable in many situations (if not most). Unless you have some real burning need to edit AVCHD natively (and do consider using an intermediate codec, like Cineform or Canopus HQ, instead), or you are in a heavy duty, time-pressured production environment, chances are Core 2 or Phenom II will work pretty nicely for you to run your NLE.

When it comes to choosing between Core 2 or Phenom II, I lean pretty strongly toward Phenom II nowadays. From a price/performance perspective, Phenom II will currently pretty much edge out Core 2. (A $185 Phenom II 965 will generally give you a bit faster performance, with most tasks, than a $249.99 Core 2 quad Q9550 - Newegg's prices as I write this.) This is especially true, if you are running software that does not utilize GPU acceleration, and will be using a single monitor setup. The motherboard options for Phenom II, with on-board graphics that have good HD codec hardware acceleration, are numerous and can be very inexpensive (well under $100 for many decent motherboards built around AMD's 780G or NVIDIA's 8200 chipsets).

That is exactly my setup , but I have 2 more TB drives and i have a 750 with no probs.

Jeff, I'm going nutz here. I've been all over specs at newegg and manufacturer's sites, and I can't find any power consumption data. Do they expect us to spec a power supply by trial and error?

I'm trying to figure out if 750w will cover x58 MOBO/i7-920, overclocking, 12GB RAM, GPU, burner, system drive, 2 raid drives, and one more archiving removeable drive (caddy) - the info does not seem to be available!

Any ideas here, have you come across a configurator for PS or ???

***edit***
I appear to have answered my own question, there are a number of PS calculators online, Computer Shopper has some links in this thread (http://forums.computershopper.com/showthread.php?t=662).

Apparently the above is OK for standard clocking, and also for moderate overclocking - I've done these calcs upping the system & cpu loading to 100%, as for extended rendering. The default sys/cpu loads are lower in the calculators.
***end edit***

You really have to look at more than the gross power rating on a power supply, to determine what it can deliver. You have to look at each rail (and what you need from each rail). That said, a premium quality 750wpower supply will be fine for almost any reasonably typical computer. You really got to build a hog to need a bigger one.

That is exactly my setup , but I have 2 more TB drives and i have a 750 with no probs.
You really have to look at more than the gross power rating on a power supply, to determine what it can deliver. You have to look at each rail (and what you need from each rail). That said, a premium quality 750wpower supply will be fine for almost any reasonably typical computer. You really got to build a hog to need a bigger one.
Thanks Gerald & Robert. Really appreciate the confirmation.

I did order with an Antec 750w, though I was very interested to later read Robert's praises of the Corsair PSUs.