Hey board. I need a little advice on how to handle a particular sticky business situation.
I've been shooting weddings for about a year now (I shoot plenty of events/commercials so not a newb).
So earlier in the year I signed a gig that was to take place early in the summer. The deal was that I would cover the wedding and produce a higher end package at a price less than full as we were still a little green and needed some exposure.
I explained to them that their video would take some time to complete as the editing process was a long one, plus my company would be in peak season thus slowing down completion time for all projects.
Now at that time I had been doing some research and found that most videographers were quoting 4-6 months for delivery, a time that i have always felt was completely understandable. When I discussed this with the clients I noticed the cringing that it induced and was compelled to give them a 2 minute crash course in what i do on the editing side after there big day. I said that I hoped that my delivery time wouldn't be that long, although i did advise that it would be a possibility.
They understood, i collected 25% and went on my merry way.
A month or two later i ran in to the clients at a store and they cut me a check right there for 40% more of the total (something that i didn't ask for).
So the wedding happens and its a disaster. There is a terrifying violent thunderstorm that lasts the entire day (the reception of course is in a party tent).
Even though it states in my contract that i reserve the right to put away my gear in the face of danger i still persist in shooting. As a result some of the day is blown. I almost completely miss a speech, there is not much b-roll, etc.
Now i felt horrible about this and explained it to the couple. They understood but i insisted on knocking the remaining balance off the cost. I tell them that i would love to use some wedding photos and to drop them off when they get a chance....a month goes by before i get the pics.
So i cut and i cut and i cut, desperately trying to make good from the bad, trying to make everyone happy.
Then the email comes.
They want to know where the hell the video was. It had been 3 and 1/2 months and enough was enough...i remain calm but motivated and finish up the final touches on the disc.
I like it (and i never like anything that i do) and deliver it.
A couple of weeks later i hear through other people that they loved the video. In fact, they even feel bad that they got such a discount as the reception that was washed was still pretty good. The bride melted, blah blah blah.
At first I am satisfied (if a little miffed that i didn't collect the rest of the $) until i hear the rest.
Despite all of it they will not recommend me.
Why?
The delivery time was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long.

So now this couple has gone out of there way to complain about my business.
I feel like i can't afford that kind of thing in this area as competition can be a little strong and i am a small company.
So my questions are as follows:
Whats your average delivery time?
How do you handle such situations?
Do I have a right to feel that this is crazy?

It seems that most people don't understand what goes into these things...Don't get me wrong, its not that i expect them to, but man...this really doesn't feel like its my fault.
This almost feels like a personal attack on me.
What are your thoughts pros?

Bottom line - your delivery time is way too long. All the other stuff does not matter.

The problem is that everyone here thinks they are an "artiste" (myself included) when in actuality, everyone else sees us as no different than the caterer or the guy who sets up the tent. We provide a service and they pay. They don't want a bunch of excuses and explanations, they just want the job done, done right, and done on time. ;)

My delivery time is supposed to be One month from the time of the event.
but thanks to computers it is getting longer and longer, and i have less and less of a life too :-(.
Customers i have worked for for 19years straight still expect a 1 month delivery time.
some of them know that given the time i can get it "perfected" (far from it actually).

very few of them are starting to have total ballistic fits , and of those they could franky care less about all the perks and extensive editing they dont even give a crud about the authoring or chaptering , SO THEY SAY.

one particular burr on my easy chair has trippled the ammount of shows i do for them, that is besides spending days on end piddling with thier project in the computer. expects the 3x work do be done in the old 1x time.
we had a nice little phone conversation with them going ballistic, my trying to explain something they frankly dont give a crap about, or want to understand.
(if they DID understand everything, they could also DO my job ;-)
I just kept my mouth shut, transfered the anger into my own adrenilin and got my Butt more into gear.

i donno should i care? do i really think if they dump me and go with someone else they wont come back? YES . when a customer gets so ticked off they diss you and hire somone else, they would have to take an even bigger hit to come crawling back begging for your work again.

So i get off my butt and work faster, longer and please the customer, the customer is always right, because the customer is my freaking boss, even if the boss doesnt understand my job.

When i started working for myself, people would say "now you dont have a boss to have to deal with, that is cool" but reality was now i had 3000 Bosses, and still have to please them all or get Fired.

I do certannly feel your Pain, suck it up , live and learn, move faster, get paid better/more and do less if you cant keep up, and remember your doing the things you want to do . . . to dang slowly :-) just like me.

everyone wants it now! especially with the convenience of youtube and itunes customers are expectitng an immediate download of the wedding day.

i have found very few clients actually read the contract. our delivery time is clearly stated on the contract and we mention the time during consultations. I still get the calls and emails asking when can we pick up the dvd way before the promised completion time. occassionally the mother of the bride will call on monday two days after the wedding expecting to pick up the dvd that afternoon.

putting together a short 1-3 minute clip such as a trailer, highlights montage etc. and posting it on your blog or sending it by email within a week of the wedding day is a good way to let the bride know her edit is in progress and it gives her something to watch.


the sooner you can complete the edit the better. the bride and usually her mom have spent countless hours planning the wedding day. after the wedding the time spent planning has now become free time with nothing to do. don't be the vendor providing something to do for the bride and her mom to fill this free time! the sooner they get the finsinsed dvd the less they will be filling their free time calling, emailing and asking to make changes to the finished dvd.

also the longer it takes the higher the expectations. the bride thinks wow it is taking four months to edit my wedding it must really be good! if the wedding is not absolutely stunning the bride then says wow i waited four months for this!

find the balance between price and quality. this will not only keep the brides happy but will lead to less backlog and a more effecient use of your time.

brides will never know or understand the amount of time it takes to record and edit a wedding. i always take too long to get the edits complete. i try to get them done in 8-10 weeks but usually run closer to 12-16. consider using templates whenever possible to speed up each wedding edit without making it cookie cutter and get the dvds out the door as quick as you can.

I feel your pain Jason.

It was repeated here so many times: "cheap, fast, quality" - choose only two out of three. I've always wanted to deliver the best at every time for my customers - it doesn't work - it takes for ever, and customers are getting annoyed. I could have done it faster - I would need to hire an editor - but that would jack the prices significantly - nobody will pay more for no reason. So my answer to the problem is - cut down on quality. Less time spent on the computer means quicker turn-around, means happier customers and more referrals. I just delivered my first wedding done in new "technique" - I managed to cut my editing time from a month to two weeks (and that's in afterhours - I have full time job as well).

As far as your situation - it's too late to do anything about it. You should learn a lesson - no discounts - everybody pays the same price. Also clear message to the customers about turn around at the moment of signing the contract - it's a part of your terms - they pay the price for such and such package which will take 4 to 6 months to deliver. They like it - they'll sign it. If not then let them go to someone else. If the average in your area is similar, then they'll have to bite the bullet.

i feel for you man!

What we do is try to provide them a wedding highlight video a month or so after the wedding and post it in their facebook for them to show their friends ...usually buys us a couple of months...BTW our usual turn around time is 3-4 months... others in my area are from 8-12 months...

Kren
___________________________
Vertical Video Works | Official Site (http://www.verticalvideoworks.com)

On a videographer's website (I don't remember who it was) I saw an interesting attempt to put their clients at rest during the wait. One page of their website offered a timeline detailing what part of the edit would be completed each week. It went something along the lines of...

Week 1 (Load and review footage)
Week 2 (Pre-ceremony completed)
Week 3 (Ceremony completed)
Week 4 (Reception completed)
Week 5 (Highlights completed)
Week 6 (Picture and audio corrected/enhanced)
Week 7 (Film burned to DVD and delivered)

I don't remember how many weeks they listed or the exact descriptions, but it was something similar to this.

Alec Moreno
http://www.1Day1ShotProductions.com

This is the story of every videographer, I suppose... We give an average of 4-6 months and although many clients seem to understand that (it's always written in the contract), some of them really go wild when time passes. If you want my advice, always try politely to explain what are the reasons for the delays, that you always try to do the best you can, and that is not happening if you are in a hurry. If they can't accept that before signing the contract, let them choose another videographer.

Now, if they accept it but they think different later, you should again remain polite. But some times, although our clients are generally patient because they know we deliver what they expect, things may get out of control.

(Real conversation)

-Videographer: Good day
-Client: Yeah...
-What can I do for you?
-What can you do for me? You guys have gone too far, you know? This is unacceptable!
-(Initially speechless videographer). What do you mean? What have we done?
-(Bad tempered client). It is three months now and we haven't yet taken the video in our hands? And I am asking you, is this a normal thing??
-Sir, you signed a contract that had specifically stated the 4-6 months time. We had also talked about it.
-What???? Six months time? Are you serious young man? If we knew that, then blah blah blah

The client continues and the videographer suddenly gets in "dark mode". And you don't want to see this videographer in dark mode.

-Ok, listen to me. I will deliver the video in three days from now. Are you happy with it?
-What do you mean? How can it be in three days?
-Easy. I will deliver the same qualities as the rest of them in town. I can do it for you. It's easy. Do we have a deal?

Of course the client didn't want that. It always works though. They want the best result, fast. That's the human condition. But he continued with the same erratic style.

-I don't know what you're saying about qualities and such. I know that this unacceptable! Do you know that our parents are old and they may not live until you deliver??

(And there goes)...

-Sir, I am not a doctor. It's not my business to control who lives and who dies. I do a specific job, and that is what you pay me.

After that, he left. I don't regret it though. It's inevitable with so many happy clients, to have someone like them. It's statistics. I don't do them favors.

PS. During their shooting day, something happened and they couldn't play music at the reception. The clients were furious with the people responsible, but we ran to our studio, found cables, went back and made it happen. And this is the "thank you" we received. :)

I'm surprised that anyone can have anything but sympathy for Jason. There's lots of elements one could point to as unsatisfactory but he already knows most of them. One he hasn't mentioned though is that the other clients he deals with are pros, wedding clients are amateurs.

Because we shoot everything with three cameras and because I'm busy throughout the day already, I've never been tempted to offer an SDE but such things make rods for our own backs.

My own view, incomplete and unsatisfactory as it must be, is to make it crystal clear in your contract what the price is, what the maximum delivery time will be, what, if any financial penalties you will accept, and to put this in the main contract, not the small type.

I'm sure Jason won't make the same mistake again but his story is a lesson for us all.

Finally, as I've said before, referrals are fickle things, nice but not something to base your business on - especially in the early days when you're building your price up to what your skill, scope and effort justify.

Last Sunday I produced a theatre christmas show, via an independent management company, shot on location with an OB unit. - Far, far too many people with vested interests, and an absolute nightmare to coordinate - but we got it done, and completed the edit - 50mins from a two hour production, with mistakes and re-takes - in two days. It goes out today, but has been trailered for the past 4 days.

I got a frosty reception last time I mentioned this subject, but 6 months?? Worst of all is the fact the client who pays the bill knows there were problems in the production, so from their perspective they might be expecting a dodgy product, with the 'hope' of a good one. 6 months is a ridiculous time-scale. If you ordered a three piece suite and paid for that, you get cross when they tell you 10 weeks for delivery. I really can't blame them for not recommending you. It's a brilliant video, but took 6 months to come? As I understand it, wedding videos are not cheap, so what people want is value for money - making them wait half a year has to colour their judgement - and I can't help feeling it's justified. You may not have told them it would be quick, but I wonder if anybody really understood it would take 6 months.

The other problem is that the business model means you are also waiting 6 months for the balance of the agreed fee. What happens if the happy couple don't make a go of it? By 6 months, they could be divorced! Come to think of it, babies may be coming along, moving house and other expense elements could come into play. Will they actually have the balance to pay you.

ugh, I am going through this now. I have been managing, but having a full time job AND a two kids (one with issues) has really taken its toll. By the end of the evening, I am way too tired to stay up 3 more hours and feel motivated to try and edit. I think for those of us who are truly busy enough, and are still working a full time job, it is time to re-assess where you want to be. You either go all in and give it a shot, or you pull back and do less and try
to live a normal life not shackled to your computer all the time. Every minute I am not sitting here, I feel like I should be working. Bottom line, they signed your contract,
they should read it. You need to email them and keep them up to date, at least with some
contact, they will feel like progress is being made.

I personally find that I need to do the edit as soon as possible, otherwise it gets harder and harder to want to start. I need the excitement and freshness of the shoot to keep me excited about finishing the job. Money also helps.

Personally, I feel that 2 weeks would be the idea delivery time for a video that I shoot and produce. Obviously, larger more complicated projects will vary this.

Andrew

PS. With regards to Jason's story, a month delay in receiving the wedding photos is worth bringing to their attention. This sort of thing can really mess with an otherwise functional production schedule.

I promise 8 weeks or less and have never had a client who found that unreasonable. I find that if my contract states a specific date for delivery "your DVD will be delivered on or before December xx, 2009," it puts any concerns at ease. Of course, that means you absolutely have a hard deadline to meet, but for me that's good. Keeps me motivated, and I can usually get it to them a little earlier.

The way I see it is that you delivered the product within the agreed upon window that was discussed before the fact. It is completely unreasonable for the couple to behave like they are behaving now.

That being said, if everyone else was quoting 4-6 months for delivery, I would personally adjust my workflow so that I can get each project done within 2-3 months, and I would make a big deal out of it. "Everyone else is 4-6 months but I have a quality workflow that allows me to stay on top of my post production. I would see it as an opportunity to do better than the competition and stand out from them.

I understand that a solid edit takes time, and I would certainly prefer waiting the extra time for a quality product, but there are people who don't feel that way. In my very humble opinion it's better to go the extra mile, get the job done quickly, get it done right, and keep couples like this from turning on you.

Thanks everybody for the responses. I guess that in the end I still feel justified in my anger. The issue really isnt about the length of my delivery time, its that they knew the delivery time, I came in under (despite the photo debacle) and their impatience still got the best of them.
I'm the most impatient person on this planet. I hate shopping for things online or via mail because I hate waiting for the package to come in the mail.
Ebay does not exist for me.
I totally get them being antsy for the video of there big day...however they might have acted harshly and at the expense of my business IMO.
Is the customer always right?
Sure. And I felt pretty good about my customer service up to this point.
This is something that a lot of us will face and I guess that it was my turn.
Thanks for the support and all of the feedback.
I will take some of the advice and try my best to speed up my workflow, but I just can't bring myself to do it at the expense of someone's wedding.
Thanks again for all the help guys!

"DVinfo .... it's cheaper than therapy."

Andrew

"DVinfo .... it's cheaper than therapy."

Andrew

a group therapy...

Hi,

My name is Andrew. And I'm addicted to buying video gear.

Hi Guys

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons I get the DVD to the couple within 7 days!! We have quite a few weddings where they have overseas guests and allowing them to see the DVD before they leave makes a difference.

OK, some may say WHAT?? 7 days but I try to streamline my workflow so that all shoots done on the weekend are cleared by the next weekend, otherwise I have chaos!!!

I must admit that I take my hat off to those who take 3 months!!! Unless you are only doing a wedding or two a month then I would be in complete disarray!! Over 3 months I will shoot around maybe 25 weddings mid season and to have that sort of backlog and have 25 folders of raw footage would need an awful amount of organisation!!! Being able to edit in the first few days of the week for me is an advantage!! I can remember what happened on the day and also anything that might need special attention. Gosh! After 3 months I don't think I would even remember most of the details unless I made copious notes!!!

I would be interested to know exactly why it takes 3 months to produce a DVD of a wedding unless of course people are shooting a month's worth of wedding before starting to even review footage.

I guess we all do things differently???


Chris

but having a full time job AND a two kids (one with issues) has really taken its toll. By the end of the evening, I am way too tired to stay up 3 more hours and feel motivated to try and edit.

I think this honest explanation speaks VOLUMES - if you want to be seen as a professional, you need to devote REAL time to making deadlines and delivery dates - the whole "editing around other commitments, personal or otherwise" excuse doesn't fly when you have taken people's money.

I can't begin to speak to what a TRULY appropriate timeframe is to edit a full featured wedding package but I offer this:
-IF you are doing wedding videography as a sideline to another job DON'T try to pass yourself off as a FULL TIME 9 - 5 video production house. This sets up one set of expectations.

And to be frank, as your client I could care less what other obligations you have in your life - I paid for my video, I would like it in the shortest REASONABLE timeframe.

This coming from a longform doc guy who has been known to go 4 days straight on 3 hours of sleep staggered over each day in order to make deadlines. Does it suck? YES. Who's fault is it that I got backed into that corner? Mine. Either I didn't use my time appropriately OR I agreed to TOO tight a delivery deadline.

One week, one month, one year... I'll leave that up to you event folks to dispute BUT as a potential client, I don't want to hear ANYTHING about YOUR commitments competing with your obligation to my product.

Hi Shaun

That is the crux of the problem here!! Too much over-committment and the client suffers!!

If you want to shoot weddings part-time then treat it as a hobby and do maybe one a month!! To have a full time job and a family etc etc is really too much if you are shooting 2 weddings a weekend too!! I limit myself to a max of two shoots on a weekend and I run full time AND from a home office so I CAN edit in the evening too!! Even that is tough!!!

If I was getting married and the videographer started talking about thousands of dollars up front and I STILL had to wait 3 months for the DVD...would he (or she) get the business??? Absolutely not!!! I think before we start quoting huge lag times for delivery we need to put ourselves in the client's shoes as well.

Buy yourself a brand new RV and lay the cash on the table for the dealer...seriously, what would you say to them if they said "We will deliver your purchase in 3 months, we are a bit busy at the moment, so you have to wait " ????

Chris

Hey board. I need a little advice on how to handle a particular sticky business situation.

You stated to the couple that your delivery time was 4-6 months. At 3 1/2 months they were unhappy and wanted the video?

Your delivery time is NOT too long. It's within the range of what they agreed to and signed a contract for. There is a reason they chose you despite not initially liking the turnaround time. Maybe it was the quality of your work? Maybe it was your price? Whatever it was, THEY decided to book YOU, so it's on THEM to patiently wait the 4-6 months for delivery.


To answer your other question, we quote couples with a 3-6 month delivery time (not guaranteed), and we shoot for 3 months or less. Almost all of our weddings are booked between June and August because of the weather here in Idaho. So it's almost impossible to not have a backlog with the style of editing we do. Often we are able to turn a wedding around in 2-3 weeks, and that just makes the couple ecstatic. d;-)

I completely agree with you Travis. We too can deliver in short period but only the weddings that are at the beginning of season. After that, as said, since you explain to the couples the delivery times and they decide to book you, they have no excuse whatsoever at making complaints.

I am well within my quoted delivery time for my clients, but it still bothers ME i can't
get them out sooner. AS much as I hate to do it, I am positioning to outsource editing
next season and take the pressure off.

I'm interested in where the extended timescale comes from. If it was originally a month, but pressure of work means you are working flat out and it keeps extending, then you either need more staff, more equipment, work harder/longer, or don't take so many booking to catch up.

A doctor near me took over a practice where getting an appointment took on average a week. He opened the surgery for three weeks working until 9pm, rather than 5pm. he now doesn't have a backlog at all, and people simply walk in, take a ticket as in a delicatessen queue and people wait for their turn.

He worked out that the actual number of patients being seen each day was a constant, and the excessive wait was just due to poor time management, NOT too much work. Customer (patient) satisfaction went through the roof, and the workload of the staff went down because they didn't spend any time on attempting to slip urgent cases in ahead of non-urgent.

I can't help feeling that if I was a customer, I wouldn't understand the wait - even if there is a solid production reason for it. I'd be very concerned if 3 months after shooting, I discovered a problem and had to tell the client - they are going to be getting stressed with the wait anyway, so any small issues become huge ones. After a couple of weeks they would remain minor.

It appears that for many people, wedding video is seen as a hobby, to be carried out alongside their main source of income. If this is the case, how come the wedding industry seems to charge so much? We're not saying that the high charges are because a quality product takes 3 months to complete are we? Editing and handing over in a couple of weeks for the same price might make people think it was overpriced? Just a thought?

simply put, most people don't understand that editing video is a tedious and time consuming process. They see the samples, but in their mind don't have any clue as to the thought process involved in producing a quality product. they think it's magic and the software does all the work.

This extended timescale also interests me!!

If you do a HUGE wedding which involves say 10 hours of shooting and 40 hours of editing then that's feasible to do full-time within a 7 day period ... at an average of $100 an hour you SHOULD be getting in $5,000 for the weeks work!

Gosh, I'd me quite happy to work my butt off every week with just one shoot each Saturday for $5,000 a week income!!!! My weddings are more in the range of $1500 a shoot which allows me to allocate no more than 20 hours to the job to make it economically viable so I can deliver within a week.

On these 90 day delivery times even if you allocate a mere 60 minutes a day to the client's video you need to charge a whopping $9000 for the job ...!!!

I would LOVE to be enlightened as to why there is a 3 month delivery time ... what do people do for 3 months on a wedding video or is this merely a part-time effort where you can only do a tiny bit at a time over a long period due to other commitments??

Chris

Hi Guys

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons I get the DVD to the couple within 7 days!! We have quite a few weddings where they have overseas guests and allowing them to see the DVD before they leave makes a difference.

I think you have a fantastic business model. You're right - barring any missing resources from the wedding couple (such as images,) you should be able to sit down in the edit suite on Monday and spend the next few days editing the wedding you just shot.

It seems the longer I put off projects, the longer they take. This is my full-time job, there is no reason I can't start cutting a video the next business day after a shoot.

I wish I could but all it takes s two or three big events to
start the season and your behind. Being a one mand band I
have to stop and print and ship, take calls, meet clients and
shoot Corp stuff and photo during the week as well as
share trips to the pediatrician and other kid stuff
with my wife. I also have two other crews shooting
on weekends and I edit everything myself. So far 90 days hasn't
been a problem, at least not yet.

There are so many things to take away from this thread... I love it!

Abraham Lincoln was once quoted as saying, 'Give a man 6 hours to cut down a tree and he'll spend the first 4 sharpening his axe.'

Basically if you give yourself 4-6 months to return a video, chances are best that you'll use every bit of that time.

But I think 4-6 months is a VERY FAIR amount of time for return! There are some places here in town that boast a turnaround time of 30 days or less. But the quality (or lack there-of) of their product is pretty obvious as to why it takes no more than 30 days.

When I meet with a couple and show them some clips, I always point out how long something took if they really like it. For example, one bride loved a highlight video I showed her. It was a 3.5-4 minute piece. I mentioned that it took a little more than a week to edit.

'Wow, really?!'

So I work at laying the groundwork about the time well before we even discuss what their video could be. They tend to be a bit more respectful of your work and time knowing that a LOT goes into the editing process for weeks (and months) following their wedding.

But here's another little interesting thing you could throw at your next couple who are whining about the 'delay' in their video:

a) GOOD
b) FAST
c) CHEAP

Pick TWO.

If you want it good and fast... it won't be cheap.
If you want it cheap and fast... it won't be good.
If you want it good and cheap... it's won't be fast.

Basically if you give yourself 4-6 months to return a video, chances are best that you'll use every bit of that time.
6 months x 4.3 weeks/month x 40 hours per week = 1,032 hours on a single wedding?

I don't think so. When I shot weddings, I'd spend about 20-30 hours editing. When you spend 6 months on a wedding video you're working on it in fits and starts, spending long periods of time (weeks, if not months) not even thinking about it.

There are many reasons it can take 3 months or more to turn around a wedding edit. I'd be happy to list some of those for you guys.

First and foremost, this idea that the day after the wedding you can jump on the computer and edit for 8 hours straight each day for 7 days in a row ... well, it's bogus. No job is like that (unless you work on a factory assembly line, lol). You have phone calls to make and return, emails to compose and reply to, meetings and consults to attend, business errands to run .. and all sorts of other random things that come up. Much of the past two weeks for us has been spent developing a new layout and design for our wedding show booth, researching new blog software, designing a new brochure and exploring a new branding image .. and that's just what I can remember off the top of my head.

Second, and nearly as important, most of our weddings are booked between June and August. So while we're spending 2-3 weeks editing the first one, we've already shot 2-3 more. So do the math. Next thing you know you're working on wedding #3 and you've already got a backlog of 4-6 weddings, and it just snowballs quickly from there. And no, the answer is not necessarily hiring additional editors because that just increases the cost for the couples.

Third, our editing style demands a huge chunk of time. Our short-form features alone can take a full week to create the final edit. Just picking out all the music we want to use and creating the 'score' can take a full day. We also usually come away from a wedding with 8-12 hours of footage, and that takes several days to rough cut. Heck, it takes a full day or more just to capture it all. Tack on full real-time edits of the major events (ceremony, dances, toasts, etc.) with cutting from 2-3 cameras, and you've got another several days of editing. Oh, and did I mention we color grade it all? Not every studio invests the time we do into the final product. This is often why you'll see a studio bragging about their X-day turnaround. They aren't delivering the product we are.

Fourth, our edits are all pretty customized. We don't have a cookie-cutter approach that we use for every couple. So it takes time to experiment with new ideas and new editing techniques or styles. Even our DVD cases and faces and menus are completely custom designed, and that alone can easily take a full day.



If I was getting married and the videographer started talking about thousands of dollars up front and I STILL had to wait 3 months for the DVD...would he (or she) get the business??? Absolutely not!!!

You might change your mind if you saw our product. You might not, and that's fine too, but just because you don't want to wait 3 months for a better product doesn't mean other people aren't fine with that. Our couples routinely wait 2-4 months for their DVD's, and we never get any complaints. Heck, go to our website and check out the rave reviews our couples send us. Our business model is working just fine, even if it's not for you.



Buy yourself a brand new RV and lay the cash on the table for the dealer...seriously, what would you say to them if they said "We will deliver your purchase in 3 months, we are a bit busy at the moment, so you have to wait " ????

This example just doesn't work, sorry. When you go to buy a brand new RV, the RV is already built. It's done. So of course it doesn't make sense to pay for it and wait 3 months to pick it up. When someone comes in to book us for the wedding cinematography, it's not already done and sitting there waiting for them. When the wedding day is done, it's still not sitting there ready and waiting for them.

One more thing we're not comparing when talking about turnaround times, guys - the size of the project.

Every single one of us has different packages to offer and different workflow to match it. When we are comparing editing time we should also mention how long is the final video, does it include slideshows, etc.

Ie. in my market I'm forced to offer 3-4hrs videos. Couple wants a nice edit of everything. I know it's crazy but that's what customer wants and that's what they'll pay for. I offer "short" pkg with an option for raw footage - almost no interest. They rather pay more and get everything edited.

Now if you offer 90 min video with slideshow and highlights, and rest nicely edited together - then a week or two of editing is easy to achieve (even with footage from 2 cams, and even for part-time videogs). Try doing the same with 3 hrs project - it won't be that quick.

But what we're saying is that the project doesn't take 6 months, it perhaps takes 1 or 2 weeks - depending on the style and length. The point I'm making is that 6 months means 12 projects are in the works, so if you could finish just a few early, then you'd claw back amazing amounts of time. I like the idea of the cashflow situation, 12 projects all 50% paid for (or whatever is your norm) - that's a lot of cash in the bank, and buying new kit must be easy. If the customers stand it, who am I to say it's wrong? I just can't conceive of this kind of workstyle. My customers want it yesterday, and want to pay in three months time, with no up fronts at all. I'm just at a loss to understand how you all get away with it in this economic climate? It's a brilliant way to work.

Abraham Lincoln was once quoted as saying, 'Give a man 6 hours to cut down a tree and he'll spend the first 4 sharpening his axe.'

.

Reading the Manuel on the new camera
Upgrading the computer one more time
Trying to find an encoder board that works to make dvds faster
Trying to figure out how to buy a $4,000 camera that woks like a $28,000 one cause the one you got sucks
Checking out new lenses because the last one screwed you at an important time
Repairing wires and mics
Finding a $500 bulb that lasts only 50-100 hours , and is now obsolete
Going to the Gym to get rid of Edit Butt syndrome
reworking that camera profile because the Brides dress was topaz not teal
Checking out cool Black friday sales for equiptment you cant afford.
Finding replacments for stuff that doesnt exist anymore that broke
Re-charging battereis and wondering why they didnt work for the time stated
Setting up the equiptment in the Truck for the next shoot, in time for it
Repairing some cheap plastic stuff on the gear before the next show
Trying to find out why your Lesser Wireless mic quit mid show
Spending 4 hours trying to get your camera to service and back and loosing it for weeks
Testing the next thing your going to be using on the next job, without testing it on that job
Writing and reading cool forums on video stuff , i am just purchacing agent this week luckliy
Getting the work van down for a smog test, oil change, tune up, gas, tires, battery etc, so it gets you to the job reliably
Power goes out in the middle of editing . . .
Buy more gear, another UPS device
Researching Music that you can legally use, that you would actually use :-)
Getting supplies for all the machines, toner print carts, dvds, more batteries again
Dealing with that jerk who sold you used equiptment on e-bay you could afford, who sent you the equivelent of a box of rocks
Babysitting some POS electronics that needs its dipers changed because everytime you walk away it fails.
Finding more audio gear to try and cover it better next time
Reinstalling crappy software , and updates
Buying Flash Chips , and figuring out how to not pay 2 weeks sallery for them
Checking out the next location on your GPS so you get there reliably
Do some Insane stuff to your computer for because it is suppose to fix the crappy software
Figure out how to recover files from your cheap memory
Update that old monitor with one that works good
Spend days listing the equiptment you bought last year on e-bay because it is obsolete again
and the list goes on and on and on, and that doesnt include sleeping, having a life or a wife or even starting on any real "work" yet.
and
the Number one Axe sharpening, Getting a Real job to pay for it all :-)

Well, Paul, I guess we get away with it because there's just no other way to do it. d;-)

I could hire on additional editors, but then I'm going to have to charge couples even more and it's already enough of a struggle to sell wedding cinematography in my market. So we choose to just do the editing ourselves and have a longer turnaround.

For corporate work, our turnaround is MUCH different, but that's out of necessity. Oftentimes businesses come to us and need the final product delivered in a matter of days or weeks. So in those cases we do the work right away because if we don't we won't get the project.

Oh, and Lukas made a very good point. Some studios talk about short turnarounds but they are only shooting 2-3 hours of footage and providing a basic edit. We have a budget package that we can turn around in less than a week too. It's just not the package that our couples usually choose.

Coming from a production background (think EFP), I wonder if this little anecdote might be at ALL interesting...

I started my career doing corporate pieces and short form docs with the occasional commercial. I got used to a "relaxed" timeline for getting stuff done. I really WAS spending a lot of time on my lighting, my shooting and especially my edits. Then I got a freelance gig shooting news one day. I was used to having time to set things up, test things, think things out... Well, my first press conference, I missed the ONLY soundbites worth catching because I was worried about the "little" things.

What I learned from this was what I've spent the last 8 years working on - ask yourself the question "what IF I had to turn this around faster?". Work to find the efficiencies that don't present themselves IF you have a long period of time to get things done. I use my learned knowledge from shooting news (what my media instructor called "cheeseburger, cheeseburger, cheeseburger!" shooting) and adapted it to making the most out of my available time when editing pieces where I DID have the time.

EVERY ONE of us has inefficiencies in our workflow. Find creative ways to make yourself more productive. As an example, I used to offload screening window burns and media capture to an assistant and/or writer. NOW, on longform documentary stuff, I capture tapes in their entirety and WATCH every minute of footage. I make notes (on paper and using metadata) to streamline the process of remembering what it was I shot in the FIRST place over 30 hours of tape. My edit times started to drop BECAUSE I remembered all that B-roll that I shot without thinking about it and was able to integrate better visuals into my "stories" because my memory was refreshed.

ALL I'm saying is EVERY workflow has areas that can be improved. If there is ANY downside to faster-than-real-time transfers of media from cards to NLE, it is that the opportunity to "relearn" what you shot has been taken away.

Again, this is just one example of reclaiming efficiency. This may or may not have ANY bearing on Weddings BUT if you identify stuff that NEEDS to make the final edit during media ingestion, you're one step further ahead than you were BEFORE you reviewed a single frame of video in the edit.

Hope this helps.

to get rid of Edit Butt syndrome

ROFLMAO ... oh wait

...seriously, what would you say to them if they said "We will deliver your purchase in 3 months, we are a bit busy at the moment, so you have to wait " ????The same thing hundreds of others are saying: "But you promised the RED Scarlet would be put two years ago."

I just had this happen to me. I took on too much work last year and now I am finishing a ton of weddings and other jobs from 2009.

This year I vowed to raise my prices, not take every job, not be up till 4am every night editing till my eyes are completely shot, and to actually live life as well as work my own business.

Also...I tell my clients when they ask about anything that I only give out top quality stuff and it takes time. I also tell them that I get postive feedback almost every week (which is true by the way) from brides and clients and that its totally worth the wait. My turn around time is 1-4 months AFTER I receive the couple's music, photos, etc.

I also crank out the smaller projects first so that I have an overall less amount of work.

Hope this helps!
Silas Barker
Wedding & Corporate Video, Sacramento, Roseville, Folsom, Auburn (http://www.silasbarker.com)

Silas,

Well done.

Andrew