5,000 plus hits on this thread and only 49 post's?

Come on, boys and girls, if there's this much interest, there MUST be more comment, surely?

Anyone for anymore?

Speak up.

Come on, lets have it.


CS

Perhaps like a lot of people I often read this forum just as a pleasant diversion rather than with a pressing need for technical advice (though of course as its primary function, it is superb for that and I am eternally grateful for what those who contribute have taught me as someone who began from basis of virtually zero knowledge). Frankly I'm not that exercised about the translation thing but it does make interesting reading and is a change from all the arcane technical talk. I was only motivated to comment by your plea.

Personally I'd like more general discussion about all sorts of non-technical film issues especially around aesthetics, ethics and, er, what's the point of it all?

I get your point entirely and it is one I have made at various times in the past and is, sort of, part of my push for "Region Specific Codes", which you will find elsewhere on this Forum, tho' it has been mentioned elsewhere as well.

The point of my "plea" (not entirely sure I agree with the description, but we'll move swiftly on) is that this particular thread has had more hits (much to my total amazement) per month than just about any other on the entire site, and it keeps getting hit with monotonous regularity.

Now this raises some interesting questions, for example, the very one you raised - Is this simply an interesting diversion or is this actually of relevance to the hitters themselves?

I don't know, but I suspect (but do not know) that most of the hits are not members and also probably aren't native English speakers to boot, but I have no way of knowing.

The subject IS of interest to me as I'm probably the worst linguist in the known Universe and I am but one member of a huge group that doesn't speak any of the other (insert any figure you like here) odd languages on this planet.

If I could find a way of making this translation stuff work (even at the risk of making the conversation so simple even Google couldn't mangle it) I would.

I'm hamstrung because I suspect most of the hitters aren't members and thus can't post, and they won't join unless they can understand what's being said, the proverbial Catch 22, if ever there was one.

I am consididering writing a short piece, in the simplist English I can muster (and folks, those as know me will be aware that me and "simple" English is an oxymoron) and translating it into the 20 most common languages I can think of, to the effect that if you don't join, you can't post, if you can't post, you have no say, if you have no say, we can't change anything.

What do you think?

Any chance, or am I just blowing smoke here?

The floor is open gents (and, of course, ladies).


CS

I also only speak a pathetic bit of French and German. Your idea is good - why not? It's definitely worth a try. One thing that might go against it - if one doesn't speak a language then why would one be browsing a forum in that language in the first place (I've never done that)? My motivation for joining was to ask a question about something I couldn't solve and at that time one couldn't search the forum for an answer either, without joining - maybe that should be re-instated to get more to join! I found after a while I actually had something to contribute to others' questions (or deludedly thought so).

Sadly, work beckons.

Anon.

at the response to this and it's sister thread here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/dv-info-net-announcements/110328-region-specific-flags-somehow.html

which are, in effect, the two halves of a torn dollar bill.

Total hits on both to date - 11,592 and they just keep going up at a phenominal rate.

This response alone tells me there is a huge interest in finding some sort of answer to this problem, which is, I believe, contained in that other thread.

I've already said enough so I shan't repeat it, just waving the flag and letting the management know this squeaky hinge isn't going to give up, go away, or, hopefully, die.

Those 11, 592 hits, Chris, are potential members for whom English is a second language (most probably), why not just give them the opportunity of their own language threads and let them get on with it.

The region specific flags idea makes that a walk in the park, and as I have said before, should be sellable and a money spinner for DVinfo to the hundreds or even thousands of other sites using the same software for their forums.

Just thought I'd get this back to the top of the pile for a while, every little bit helps.

Regards,


CS

PS: 11,592! Who'd have thought I could pen anything getting that much interest. Maybe I'm not the useless dork my missus keeps implying I am (just joking).

Wow, long time, no post.

An interesting snippet to tide things over...............

How Google Translate works - Features, Gadgets & Tech - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/features/how-google-translate-works-2353594.html)


CS

And yet more about Google Translate..................

Google Translate: Will Google's Computers Understand Languages Better Than Humans? - Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2011/10/google_translate_will_google_s_computers_understand_languages_be.html)

Seems to be just about the only game in town.


CS

PS: 13, 271! Wow.

Methinks there's little hope of "mechanically translating" - heck even the "cross the pond English" often "gets lost" in the wedding event forum... Most time I can make out what those UK blokes are saying, but sometimes even I don't quite get their lingo!

There are so many "local dialects", so much slang/urbanese, and so forth, and thats just ENGLISH! Some parents claim to need a translator to understand their teenagers, and they are FAMILY...

We just have to muddle through as best we can when dealing with other languages - I try using the "auto-translators" on Japanese and other sites, SOMETIMES you can pick up 50-60% of the content, or at least the general context, but without SOME training in the native language, you'll be pretty lost. I do "OK" with Spanish and German, as I sometimes can figure out which words were garbled in translation, and perhaps supply a more suitable word in context.

If you don't understand the "target" language you won't know when the translator has really screwed up.

I tried a few things English to Japanese - I think I said "crush the blacks" and it produced something along the lines of oppress/subjugate the black people.

..........."crush the blacks" and it produced something along the lines of oppress/subjugate the black people.

Well, funnilly enough, to just about any English speaking non technical individual, that's exactly what it does mean.

Say it to anyone in Sub Sahara Africa and you'd be lucky to get out of the country alive.

Ditto, in many Western countries you could easilly find yourelf on an "inciting racial hatred" charge, and that's not "small beer".

Put it in the context of "Technical - Digital Video and Photography" and you'd still get some strange looks from those as are not in the know.

Put it into the context of just about any NZ national team playing anywhere on the planet (they are, almost to the point of being rediculous, "something" Black, which really does wear thin after a while) and the saying "crush the Blacks" is valid coinage with opposition supporters.

AFAIK, Google doesn't have a "Technical" language section, probably due to the fact that Digital Video geeks don't have the time or money to indulge in UN style verbal w%^k fests which require translation into 6 different languages and made freely available to all and sundry.

Translating DV manuals (of any sort and usually not actually written in English as we know it in the first place!) is hardly food for general translation of discussions relating to the medium and all it's manifest offshoots.

I think we'll just have to accept, it WILL get there, but the "Technical" section is going to be one heck of a slog, especially when you consider just how many categories it would need to encompass - check out Wikipedia on any tech subject you can think of - how much of that ever gets translated?

I'd still like to do something for our foreign guests and members, if only their own DVinfo space to use THEIR language amongst themselves, but, alas, it still ain't happened and I think it probably never will.


CS

I think that MOST if not all education systems out there teach English (maybe not so much in the US... but that's another topic) - while I've heard that learning Mandarin is likely to be a requisite in the future for "doing business", I think most "educated" individuals will likely have at least a crude working ability with English.

As a guitar builder, I always used to get a laugh while out in public mentioning "the bodies hanging in my garage/shop" - you'd be surprised how quickly the crowd backs off when you say something like that...

Every industry has it's own "lingo", and there is so much slang and ubanese that a "universal translator" alas is probably a far off dream, even for those Klingon speakers....

For now, English with all its quirks and nuances will probably be sufficient - perhaps if there were sufficient demand for dedicated fora with different languages, they could be added, but as it is, sometimes those Brits go off and start speaking their own language, and I've seen a couple others here and there too, which should suffice?

Dave, I have to agree with you about languages and cultures all having their own slang, etc. Years ago I worked with a lady from Taiwan originally who speaks perfect English. One of our managers decided to have an Ice Cream party and sent the email our with a "Pirate speak" theme. My coworker was totally perplexed as she was unfamiliar with "pirate slang." There's also the difference between British and US English. If someone doesn't have exposure to the other dialect (British English for an American or American English for a Brit) it can lead to confusion as well.