Anyone using a matte box on their Z5? I need to break down and get one but would like some info from someone that is using it. Thanks.

i've been using a cheap indian one on my v1p - and it fits my new z5:

The CineCity*::*Matte box*::*Matte box without rod support*::*Wide angle Matte box mattebox + french flag for all DV HDV camera from 37mm to 82mm lens thread dia (http://www.thecinecity.com/tcc/product.php?productid=59&cat=26&page=1)

it's cheap, and cheaply made, but pretty effective (i need to use a large cpl filter).

my other alternative when i last looked was either a formatt, or cavision, both of which were relatively expensive.

i might consider getting either of the above simply for the rotating stage in the filter holder - haven't needed it so far, but i'm beginning to enjoy playing with filters / nd gradients, etc.,

Leslie I also believe that a matte boxe shouldn't be more that $100. after all it's just a shade box.

Stelios

While most products involved in pro video is expensive, the three things I believe are vastly over-priced are: 1) video tape recorders of any pro format, 2) LED lighting systems, and 3) matte boxes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand market and economic pressure, demand and supply, and all that jazz. I totally see product manufacturing opportunities here and, as has been posted, the Chinese and Indians are getting in to fill the gap. Makers like CineCity are grabbing that opportunity and we'll see more as competition drives prices to more reasonable levels.

Dave Burckhard
PicturePoint On-line

I agree about matte boxes being over priced but if it wasn't needed people wouldn't pay that price for it

i've been using a cheap indian one on my v1p - and it fits my new z5:

The CineCity*::*Matte box*::*Matte box without rod support*::*Wide angle Matte box mattebox + french flag for all DV HDV camera from 37mm to 82mm lens thread dia (http://www.thecinecity.com/tcc/product.php?productid=59&cat=26&page=1)

it's cheap, and cheaply made, but pretty effective (i need to use a large cpl filter).

my other alternative when i last looked was either a formatt, or cavision, both of which were relatively expensive.

i might consider getting either of the above simply for the rotating stage in the filter holder - haven't needed it so far, but i'm beginning to enjoy playing with filters / nd gradients, etc.,

Thats a great price

I'm still looking. Thanks for the suggestions

let us know what you find / decide....

ok, now getting a bit more serious - really need a revolving stage.

anyone found anything further?

am looking (rather askance) at:

Wish List | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/wl/30A3F10FE0)

any thoughts?

I've been pretty busy so I haven't gone any further. The Petroff was one I was looking at. The problem is that a lot of things look good but who knows. That's the great thing about this site. You can check with others before you buy but it doesn't sound like anone is using it here. I also heard to go bigger than the 4x4. I've really been thinking about getting a wide lens also and the Sony comes with a sun shade. Not sure if that would do though.

go bigger? if you're looking at the kit wa with filter the only problem is it's fixed. i'm slowly discovering the joys of gradients etc., all of which really need a revolving stage.

and you're dead right - it's one thing buying a screw on filter at $80 and finding the lens hood wont fit on afterwards, but spending $500+ is another matter entirely....

still looking / investigating,

leslie

Leslie Wand and David Dwyer and all others interested in the Matte Box from CineCity the price is $69 plus $25 for shipping not the $99 listed on the link that is provided. By clicking on #1 under BestSellers on the link that you provide you will come to this link for the $69 price The CineCity*::*Matte box*::*Matte box without rod support*::*Wide angle Matte box mattebox + french flag for all DV HDV camera from 37mm to 82mm lens thread dia (http://www.thecinecity.com/tcc/product.php?productid=59&cat=26&page=1) .

Oh, by the way I purchased one of those cheap Matte Boxes and for the price I think that It is one of the best deals on any piece of equipment for the Z5. Maybe I'm wrong but can anyone point out what a higher price Matte Box will do that this one can't.

Melvin Baggs

I'm no expert, and only in the investigating mode, but I think rod support is important as well as rotation ability for the filters. Looks good for the price. Do you own one? If so, how does it work for you?

At that price the CineCity model looks unbeatable.

The question I have is how much weight should one be asking the ( lens / lens mount / filter threads ) to support?

hi melvin,

that's the model i have at the moment - used as a screw on on both my old v1 and now z5.

unfortunately it doesn't have a rotating stage, which is why i'm asking here since i need one for my cpl filter, and will certainly for grads.

came up with these guys, and searching seems to give them good reviews:

True Lens Services (http://www.truelens.co.uk/kestrel.html)

only problem i can see is that it's a pretty huge front end as compared to say the chroziel.....

leslie

btw. i have been very happy with the matte box - yes, it's cheaply made, the french flag's tightening system requires checking (you don't want a 16:9 black band on top in your 16:9 frame!), but other than that, bloody good value.

here's my final selection:

Wish List | B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/wl/30A3F10FE0)

any comments / suggestions most welcome.

Out of those I think I would go for the Chrosziel or Petroff. I guess the worse thing that can happen is you have to pay for shipping to return it. I originally liked the Petroff myself and the Chrosziel seems light. Decisions, decisions.

ok, to be quite contrary, i opted for a

Century Precision Optics | 0DS-MB44-WCS 4x4 Wide | 0DS-MB44-WCS

it's light, and relatively compact so i can leave it on the camera - a thought for my run 'n' gun horse shoots.

i'll come back with hands on experiences when i have some ;-)

btw, what prompted this turnaround was:

a. as i wrote earlier - i really need a revolving stage for a cpl filter
b. due to the nature of my work it needed to remain on camera permanently (ie. no time for setup breakdown)
c. needed to fit in my kata 193 bag for travelling
d. no rail system (would be too cumbersome and awkward for hand help use)
e. with the above in mind, it needed to be pretty small and robust.
f. my cheap indian one is cheap (anyone want it for $50us + postage?). it works, but there's NO moving parts other than the clamp. i'm not sure i'd trust their quality on a box that had many moving parts as the general build is 'cheap'
g. i don't intend buying another one! this should last this camera out, and probably any foreseeable ones!!!

Thats $975 I think I will just get the cheaper cinecity option.

Though its still $99 on that link not $69?

Keep us posted

while the chrosziel i havent isnt as cheap, it has taken quite alot of abuse. (i think ~600?)
Used on my A1 rig, currently being used to protect my lens (5d rig). Its a clamp on style, so you dont need rail support.

differences between cheap vs chrosziel:
chrosziel built of hard sturdy plastic, actually has a filter tray (1 stationary, 1 rotating), wider (could be a con depending on how you look at it). Havent tried other matte box, but id say chrosziel is a good option if you can afford it.

Well, I wound up purchasing the Genus matte box with rails. It seemed the best one for the money. Well, the best for what I wanted to spend (Under $1,000). I'm going to shoot with it this week and I'll let you know how it worked out. I also purchased a 16X9 fish-eye lens. I'll let everyone know about that as well.

which fish-eye? zoom through?

haven't shot with my vocas box yet - start next week.

good luck

leslie

ok, out for a week with my new matte box:

DV MATTE BOX 4X4 MKII WIDE - Schneider Optics (http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=1394&IID=1764)

pros.
exceptionally, and i mean exceptionally, well constructed.
great eye-brows, almost no need for included sunshade.
extremely light.
screw on very, very secure, and the clamp is limpet like

cons:
well, it's bigger than i really wanted - so it has to come off for transit. not a big deal though thanks to great engineering (the clamp is tremendous) so it's very, very quick to mount.
with the standard adaptor (72mm>105mm) both filter holder 'knobs' foul the built-in mic. however, the front (non-rotating) can be inserted from the bottom, and the rotating stage from the side - which gives me more than adequate rotation for my cpl (and is much more practical to use in the field).
have just ordered the alternative adaptor - which looks to extend the box far enough forward to give 'knobs' clearance.

i'm very pleased indeed, though to be honest, i think i would have been better off with the compact version as i bought this with the intention of getting a wa lens later in the day, but having worked with the z5 in a number of shooting situations makes me think i'll probably get away without having to get one.

if you have the mb200 and are looking at a mb250 for use with a wa, we should talk ;-)


leslie

Leslie,

how about a picture with it assembled??


Dale

will do when i get the second adaptor so you can see the difference (if any!)

Here is what I purchased.
Genus | GMKGMB-72 Matte Box with Base, French Flag | GMKGMB-72

It actually has gone up around $130 since 2 weeks ago. I have to finish a job in the next few hours and will try to give you my opinion then. Here are some quick photos.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/members/rob-morse-albums-z5-w-genus-mattebox-picture404-z5-w-genus-mattebox.jpg

very nice indeed!

the genus was my preferred choice until i was offered the vocas at a discount price. couldn't look a gift horse in the mouth!

it looks like there's great clearance on the filter stages, and it seems quite compact on the camera.

how do you go about transport? i've got a kata 192 bag which is great for the camera, but not with box. and i doubt the next size up would accommodate it either - though i maybe wrong. meanwhile i have a neat little case that works a treat for it, and all my audio gear (has pick 'n' pluck foam inside):

https://www.haldexdirect.com.au/index.php/page/shop/flypage/product_id/81/category_id//offset/0

why the rails? are they really needed or is it that you prefer the added 'strength / stability' they afford? i found them to be rather cumbersome for my work (doco - hand held), but great when on a tripod for the horses. however, the hand held won out...

am still waiting for the adaptor so i'll post pics when it finally arrives.

I think the reason there was a price difference was B&H had it listed at the same price as the model without the rails. I asked about it but the person I spoke with didn't know. Well, that's why I like dealing with B&H. They never complained about the wrong price, they just gave it to me for that price. Anyway, back to the matte box.

I was expecting it to be a little flimsy, due to the price, and was surprised to find it felt solid. I actually put it together without the instructions as everything just fell into place. I need a wide angle lens, which will be an 82 mm opening, although this matte box came with a 72mm, it will accommodate a wide variety of lenses for $30. I haven't purchased any filters yet. I had to go to Daytona to shoot some footage of Bike week, so I really needed it mainly as a sun shade but really could have used some filters. Anyway, it has 1 stationary and 1 rotating adaptor whish seem to operate very smoothly. Due to the mic on the camera, you would need to slide it off to change the filters but no problem to rotate the filter. One problem I see is that the French flag blocks the camera mic. I think that would be an issue with any matte box though. I used a multi shoe attachment with a shock mount and that brought the mic well above the shade. In addition, the rails are great. When I’m hand holding, I have my left hand under the rails and it allows easy access, with my thumb, to the focus, zoom and aperture. It also keeps the weight off the lens. By the way, I can still keep my quick release on the bottom of the rail. That was originally a concern for me.

Right now I can take off the matte box and turn it sideways and it just fits in the bag but it takes up too much room in my bag. My headphones don’t really fit with it in the bag. I have a Petrol rolling bag and it’s big but I would need a different bag if I want to keep the matte box mounted. There are some small screws on the bottom of the matte box that hold the bracket for the rails. I’m going to go to Home Depot and if I can find some thumb screws to replace the small screws, I would be able to leave the bracket on the rails and take the bracket off quickly. Then I think everything will fit in the bag (I hope). If not, I have a Porta Brace production bag that I may try to modify. That would probably be the only suggestion I have to make the matte box better. I’ve only used it a few times and have yet to use all the features but I’m very happy with the product. It does not feel cheap at all, it's very solid, and it fits the Z5 very well. Actually, I think it’s the perfect size. I really think Genus will take off in this arena.

ok, don't know where the other adaptor has got to (probably still in transit), but meanwhile here's a couple of compiles:


as you can see, the indian is a rip-off of the kompendum / century optics. however, for the price it can't be beat - though i would warn about the screw on adaptor - cheap ally, and i reckon it wouldn't take much to strip the thread. the sun-shade lock mech. also leaves a bit to be desired (unless you want to bring the curtain down slowly in the middle of a shot ;-0) in terms of reliability - but it's a relatively deep box, so the sunshade is, in general, superfluous. of course, NO rotating stage, and you have to remove the box to change filters as they'll catch on the shot-gun mic (they clear the built-in.

the other is the vocas - with standard adaptor. pics speak for themselves. great piece of engineering. sunshade sits directly under shotgun - but i have a rode sm3 adaptor for my sennie shotgun that lifts it well clear. you can see the built in mic fouling problem - though as i pointed out, easily overcome, and i can rotate my cpl from the side easily enough.

will post final with new adaptor IF it changes the game significantly. if not, bugger, that's another $150 (au) down the drain....

btw - i use a B+W uv filter screwed permanently to the lens. this is mainly for protection (horses sneeze - UGH!, and flying dirty from galloping ones can make you very protective ;-)). it's b&w's most expensive one with a brass double thread, so no fear there of stripping.

rob, i have to admit that i can be really dumb sometimes - Right now I can take off the matte box and turn it sideways and it just fits in the bag but it takes up too much room in my bag. i just tried it and it's a reasonably comfortable fit!!! so, i can put my headphones where i cut out for the mb. in my audio case - so that wraps it all up pretty (anally) neatly! thanks for the prompt.

ok, no time for pics.....

the adaptor arrived and YES, it moves the box forward enough to be able to use the rotating stage properly.

HOWEVER, it wouldn't work without the uv filter's extra couple of mm's.

an added advantage is that without the matte box the adaptor isn't too bad a sun shade!

have a major out door project coming up at the end of next month - so i'll report back after that.

leslie

Leslie,

Thanks for the pictures.


dale

pleasure dale.

will take some with the new adaptor asap. but it's not hard to imagine everything on the matte box moving forward about 7mm - as i wrote, enough to operate the rotating stage properly.

i will repeat though, the uv filters 3mm IS important for it all to work.

leslie

Has anyone used a polariser with this cine city set-up - how would you rotate it?

which cine city set-up are you referring to?

if you're talking about the one i had (fixed), that's what i bought it for - however, since (more often than not) i always shot with the sun directly behind me a rotating stage was a luxury i could ill afford at the time. when the sun was elsewhere, it was a matter of taking the filter out, rotating it 45 degrees to where it worked best, and then putting it back in the box.

with a surfeit of (well-paid) work i now have the luxury of a rotating stage, which gives me perfect control - and i now realise that my original set-up (non-rotating) was close to perfect with the sun behind me, but another 20 degrees (either way depending on time of day) IS perfect!

leslie

How do you control the amount of filtration with a non-rotating polariser?
The cine set-up I'm talking about is the $99 version with the 4x4 filter tray mentioned in the first few posts.
Apart from a UV I don't see any other filter as being too useful these days.
Grads can be added in post, CC filters are non-existent, star filters are cheesy, pro mists maybe - what else do you use the matte box for apart from the flags.

hi chris,

a. by positioning yourself relative to the sun. as i wrote, with the sun directly behind me my cpl was spot on, as the sun moved, so did the cpl's effectiveness - it was either repositioning myself, or losing the 100% effectiveness....

b. i prefer a screw on uv (also acts as a lens protector)

c. well, i like real life grads, even with magic bullet and the like i prefer the look of the real thing. pro mist's are a fantastic tool, especially with 'older' on screen talent. and added nd's make for a more flexible exposure. oh, and not to forget contrast filters.

but in truth, i find the cpl packs a great deal of production value compared to the others, and the cost of a decent matte box with rotating stage is quickly made up by clients coming back for more....

leslie... "by positioning yourself relative to the sun..."
I'm not sure if waiting for the sun to move is a very effective way to get the right amount of filtration from a polariser..isn't that, sort of limiting.
But basically what you're saying is that there is no rotating polariser for this box!
Yes I have a screw in UV and a screw in polariser, but the lens shade has to be removed to use both - which is why I thought this set-up may work.
Instead of promists you could fiddle with the skintone detail in the menu and assign it as a profile - that way you can avoid that 80's soft look and lack of contrast. It is a very handy tool.

hi chris,

well, my main reason for the cpl was shooting horses, and i could move both them and myself at any time (thankfully).

nope, there's no rotating stage on the box - though cine city do make a cheap imitation of the vocas with a rotating stage. i decided that since the horses were paying, i'd get a proper one - otherwise, given my experience with the cheap one described above, i would have gone with the indian copy. bear in mind, you get what you pay for though.

your points are valid re. skin tone, but to be honest, i prefer my grads and mists in camera - i'm old school and yes, i know what can be achieved in post is pretty bloody impressive, i'm still happier doing it on camera.

all the best

leslie

Thanks for your feedback leslie-it's been very helpful.
good luck with the shooting

pleasure chris.....

just thought i add (if anyone's interested), thoughts on my new tripod:

my sachtler fsb4, single stage mid spreader arrived - haven't been out in the field (literally) with it yet, but just playing around with the head is a joy.

holds my z5 and mb quite firmly. counterbalances very well considering how front end heavy it is.

head movement in all planes is wonderful - can forget all those old elastic band tricks!!!

the legs look flimsier than my old miller ds10 ones, but they appear to do
the job just as well - pretty similar to what i thought when changing from miller
wooden ones to alloy....

the miller ds10 head was great, but no real comparison to the sachtler, and my main reason for getting new legs was the extra 4cm or so in height - it's now perfect for my eye line with the legs fully extended and locked off.

if your camera and accessories are 1.5kg more than the z5, i'd suggest the fsb6.

i think in the field i might just start off with adding some extra weight to the spreader till i really feel confident - it's so much lighter than the miller (though it doesn't display any tendency to twist with firm pan settings - something light tripods always seemed to do).

Got my cine city matte box today, barely a week after I ordered it. Looks great, fits great and a bargain!!
Ok, it's not a swingaway Chroziel, but for simple filter work and a flag it's sensational.
Good find whoever dug this up.