Hi
Here's a short film (almost five minutes) to give a taste of a bar in Edinburgh.
The target audience is people who are planning a visit to the city and who using the web to research their visit and get the most out of it.
Does it do the job for you?
Do you find it too long?
Feedback appreciated.

Dalriada on Vimeo

Hi Richard,

I enjoy your films immensely and love the atmosphere of this film when I watched it a day or so ago...and I love the bars in Edinburgh (where I spent a lot of my miss spent youth a long long time ago!) - but yes it was a bit too long.

I do a lot of analysis on my own videos (Google Analytics, YouTube stats etc.) and it seems that keeping hold of people for longer than about 2-3 minutes is a REAL challenge - maybe my videos are no good! ;-)

I'm sure (if you and others agree) it would be easy (as you have so much good stuff and a great soundtrack) to whittle it down to a stunning 2-3 minuter.

Thanks for looking and commenting Andy. Much appreciated.

There have been 31 views and one comment.
Does everyone agree that it is is too long, or maybe people don't have broadband or are too busy to write?
I tried to let the music run a bit because I wanted the viewer to be able to enjoy it. There was one point where I thought about coming out earlier but left the cut where it was after experimenting.
Perhaps I was just too chilled out when I was editing it. Would love to have some more feedback.
There used to be an option to set up a vote but I can't find it. Would have made it easier for people to respond.

I know that the web is supposed to be for people with short attention spans but I'm not sure that always has to be the case.
The best statistic that I can come up with is for a 50 minute documentary that I posted on Vimeo in two equal sections.
I won't post the link here because it takes up too much space on the page (it's called Blue Water).

5,884 people have viewed part 1.
2,331 have viewed part 2.
Assuming that they are the same people (why would you watch part 2 and not part 1?) that seems quite a high percentage.

BTW Andy, I'm not trying to say that your films don't hold attention! This film was for people who like sailing and a smidgeon of philosophy and so it's a very targeted audience. I don't think a 50 minute corporate film would retain so many viewers.

It's long. I was waiting for a story. Strikes me as 95% a film of a band in a Pub and the rest a tourism video. Photography is nice. Lighting is warm...maybe too warm...but subjective. Clear audio.

I am not sure just the video and stills make much of a case for going there. A voice over and tightening up of things might help. Of course maybe the way it is is what you wanted and not an in-your-face commercial. But from what is there, I don't know if I should pack my guitar because I can join in or practice my vocals so I can sing with the band. Is that the house band or might there be others booked throughout the year. On the other hand it does say it's not far from Edinborough, snowy, cold and kids are welcome. What's it like in summer? I assume the shots of the whiskey also made a statement about the bar.

Now I'll look at the other videos you have just because I'm part Irish, have never been there and you put out really nice footage. my 2 cents

OK. Rain. An artistic piece. Nice.

Christmas Day. Beautiful footage. Lots of the same thing. Deer, people, more deer, landscape with deer, sidewalk, deer, people, deer on sidewalk, cathedral, people with deer....you get the idea.

Thanks for looking Les. Oh deer ;-) It was just a walk with friends and I didn't make it for wider consumption. Should probably have taken it down. I made it for a friend's family back in China. As part of a longer film. To show them a bit of London. She asked for deer; as many as possible :-)

Where is part 2?

BTW....My sister was an English Lit major but now works for Crate and Barrel and loved the Shakesperience piece you did for IKEA.

Don't ask! The whole thing ran to about an hour. A present from London, for Chinese New Year.
I'm so glad your sister liked Shakesperience. It was quick and dirty and could easily not have worked out. I wish I could think of a way to get it more widely seen. Maybe as a teaching aid!

BTW for anyone else reading. Please don't be put off from commenting on Dalriada. I'm very thick skinned and would really value feedback. 100 views so far and very few comments. Someone favourited it on Vimeo so it worked for him/her, but it's too long for other people.

For the record, I like the piece. I'm not against "long" pieces such as yours that moves along enough.

<rant>The problem is the effect that "the media" has had on genY, GenX and genWHATEVER forcing everything into elevator speeches and nearly content free packages for an ADD society.</rant>

Many thanks Les.
Would anyone else care to comment?

Good Video, shooting in a dark pub full of patrons is very difficult (I didn't like the 2 heads in the shot of the singers).

Some of the drinkers look very drunk.

I would have shot allot tighter on the musicians and edit in different shots of the hands playing the instiments.

Here in the states you never see children in a bar (unless it is a restaurant).

In the middle of your video your music changes to a blues singer.

Keep your edits tight and your shots appealing to the traveler who is looking for a warm authentic place to have a drink and a bite.

Also if you have a cute bar maid with her accent saying hello would be nice.

This is a link to another video for a Irish Pub here in the states: YouTube - Slainte Irish Pub - HD Video Commercial by HamiltonSeen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0iuP_Hwe5M)

Hi Richard,

Very nice images! I've always wanted to visit Edinburgh so this was interesting to me. Here are a few remarks since you are asking:

I loved the opening. Always good to show the surrounding area, so even a bit more of that with a dolly in at the door (inviting me in) would have been fun.

The people make the experience, so you certainly were on the right track there, plus showing the offerings, etc. Even though I don't drink single malt scotch it was fun looking at all the brands.

Yes, the video dwells on the music too long for my taste, but I sure enjoyed it more than pieces that use canned music in the background while showing a live band. With yours people know what they'll be hearing. I'd have been happy if the song from 1:30-2:00 was not there, and if there was different footage from 2:00-2:10. I also turned down the volume a bit when the popular Blues singer was belting out her tune, but that's just me.

You know what I hoped for? Very short clips of patrons talking, or perhaps a few words from the bartender (I never saw one) or the owner. Now *that* would have really made the video for this hopeful traveler!

All in all, though, it was lots of fun. Thanks so much for giving us a look at it!

Thank you Mark and Lorinda. Some really interesting and helpful comments that I will take on board. Rather than reply properly now and interrupt the flow of the thread I will leave it for a while in case there are any more contributions.

I've finally got round to finishing this off. It's uploading as I write this..
Thank you so much for your comments.
I have shortened it quite a bit.
It's 400 miles from me so shooting extra material was not possible.
I've used more stills, some with people in, and hope this broadens the scope of the film.
The intention is to give a flavour of the pub/bar.
Lorinda - the owners were too camera shy. I've included a couple of stills. Maybe I will film them later in the year. I've got rid of some of the music and footage that you refer to.
Mark - the problem with framing was that I was using a 50mm prime and this as as close as I could get. I was slowly roasting in front of the fireplace. The only space from which I could film.
Children are allowed up until 8pm. This was an afternoon session. It's a family-friendly pub. But people in the UK always get confused as to when and when you can't take children into a pub. Some don't allow children at all.
They play all kinds of music in the pub. This is what they played in this particular session.
I've included a few more images showing food etc.
The film is warm. Mainly because I started shooting when there was daylight coming in through the window and then it got completely dark. I could have white balanced again but that might have caused more problems than solutions.
I hope that the film is better for the changes.
Thank you so much everybody who took the time and trouble to comment.

...I was slowly roasting in front of the fireplace. The only space from which I could film.
I smiled at this but it was probably brutal. :)

I'm excited to see the finished version, Richard. Hope you'll post it here!

Many thanks Lorinda. I have recovered now ;-)
I should have said. I replaced the film in the link above.
I suppose that it would be useful to compare the two but I try not to clutter up my Vimeo pages too much.
If anybody wants to see the previous version please ask and I will upload it to Vimeo and link to it here.
BTW if anyone is interested this is the context that the film is being us in ie the Dalriada website:
http://www.dalriadabar.co.uk/
(I'm waiting for content but the owners wanted the site to go live even though it's not all there yet)

Wow, Richard, you really tightened it up, didn't you! Looks great. I love the segment early on where the video images fade in and out during the song. Something, too, about the little boy and then the two guys sitting at the table with the music transition is quite compelling. By the way, I laughed when I saw the fireplace...that thing was HOT! :)

I viewed it from the Web page you listed as a wanna-be tourist and guess what...I REALLY want to visit that bar!!! Looks like it would be a blast.

Thanks again for sharing. Great fun.

Thanks so much for looking at it again and giving your thoughts and comments. I really appreciate it.
Should you ever get to Dalriada please ask for Alison or Terry and have a free drink on me. I will let them know you may visit one day!

i cant believe you did that.
You have this great "establishing" shot of the location , then we go inside to WHAT? i dont even know where i am and there you are doing cinamatic close ups , did i miss something in the Long version?
its a BAR right? building with tables chairs mabey even a BAR itself in there ? is there stools? how big is the place? what did i miss something? like everything, hey cool woodworking,

I didnt get to see where i am , but i do get to see a great closeup of booze, you know what i can look at the bottom of a booze glass sitting at home :-)

hey i am just giving you a bad time, on purpose, you said people would be checking this out thinking of going there , but i never even walked in the door, and i got booze shoved in my face some crasy locals are having a concert, and i dont even see an inviting place to sit down. SEEE what i am saying. Did you invite me in? does this assume that i am already drunk? the glasses are dirty, can i say "wiskey in a dirty glass" , what the Heck was that? part of the stairwell?
I like the nice dissolves, and the video played well on the WEB (this time) and the music had good audio. the out of focus shot at the end has to go, it looks like the camera person errored, snip snip.

Ha!
I love these comments Marty. So many people pussyfoot around on this forum, being far too diplomatic. When people ask for feedback I think they should expect to hear it as it is. So this is great!
You've just about summed it up. Crazy people playing music with booze.
Well, actually, not just plain booze of course but some of the finest malt whiskies that are hard to get outside of Scotland. And superb ales. I didn't bother with the wines (and yes, the glasses are dusty so maybe I should have left that shot out).
Also, pretty good live music, hopefully, of all kinds, played in sessions ie within the room where musicians just turn up, not as a concert. This is rare in England but not in Scotland or Ireland. I don't know if it's common elsewhere in the world.
It's meant to work in conjunction with the website. Which does the inviting.
Bearing in mind that it's was getting dark outside when I started shooting and it's the middle of winter so it doesn't look that wonderful anyway and it's 400 miles away so I am not going to re-shoot it, how would you handle the welcome-in bit if you were shooting the film? I'd love to get a take on that for another time I am doing a film like this.
The still that I used of the outside of the building was taken lying down on the beach. So you see the sand in the foreground with the dreaming spire and the building next door to give it classy look. That's the other message the film is trying to get across. That it's a bar _on the beach_. Most people who visit Edinburgh don't realise that it's next to the sea. I went there for years without realising that myself.
Hence the waves in the soundtrack too.

yes the beach, so would a person wander from the bar and walk on the beach? with say thier GF that they brought to see the very special bar he just conned her into going to? allowing for that classic and altogether corney romatic shot of a couple on a beach? then switcheroo and the happy couple is entering said location with friendly feeling and available space be that at least 2 open chairs , , , THEN sees crasy locals haveing a most enjoyable time?

i dont know how i would do the inviting part, but the Building is loaded with its own life, it doesnt look like a hole in a cement building in the city.
so i might have gone with live video of a human going into the bar. , or the virtual reality of myself walking in. working the outside of the building for a few seconds of final video, i cant see anything there that was "bad" so getting up to the place without overdoing it.
then at Least One shot of the location internally, big , small, is it kept up, whats on the walls from a wide view of its, WHERE are the things that you did a hard shot of?

on the other hand, if its not so pretty to be showing such things, then of course dont.

the glasses shot looked nice, and it is REAL that some of them were dirty, i wouldnt leave it out, i would clean them myself if i had to, and get the shot :-) real doesnt happen on video.

Thanks. I may do another film in the summer. When it's buzzing and lovely outside. And pick up on some of these suggestions.
I appreciate your input.

So many people pussyfoot around on this forum, being far too diplomatic. When people ask for feedback I think they should expect to hear it as it is.
You know why many of us pussyfoot around? In this case your question was, "Is this too long?" not "What do you think?" Many of us on this board won't go there hard core if we're not asked. I don't think that's such a bad thing.

Many thanks Lorinda and everyone who commented. It really was very helpful and I appreciate it.
I did revisit the beginning and extended the musical lead-in to the first scene inside the bar, in response to Marty's comments.
I learned a lot from everyone who commented. Thanks again.
Richard