Schneider is pleased to announce our new Platinum 1/2 Stop IR filter. We have talked about this in other threads but this the official thread with images of the filter and before/after shots.

As the name suggests, this filter losses 1/2 stop of light and as you can see from the images must be white balanced to compensate for the natural blue/green cast in the filter. This is an absorbtive filter so it can be used anywhere in an optical series making it perfect for use in DOF adapters as well as regular use. It is available in 77mm and popular square and rectangular matte box sizes. 77mm is $250 list price.

Special Limited Time Offer: Trade in your exisiting IR solution for which you may not be pleased with the performance and receive a $75 discount on a new Schneider Platinum 1/2 Stop IR. Please contact Ryan Avery at Schneider Optics for details.

There are also a series of Platinum IRND filters coming in April that do not have a color cast and details will follow as well.

Sample images attached are taken with tungsten lighting on black material and white balanced after the filter was put in place. More dvinfo.net actual user reviews to follow.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

How much is the filter?

List price is $250 USD for a 77mm size or $175 USD with your trade in IR filter. Other sizes range in cost up or down depending.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

I'd have to see unbiased tests stacking this up against the T1 for me to have faith that this new filter will do BETTER than my existing T1.

I have an open mind as to the results - but 250.00 is a little ridiculous for a 77mm. I don't want to be charged for your research and development. Can't you reduce the price to 100.00, and make a profit in a more timely fashion?

Chad,

Unbaised user reviews will follow shortly. This thread is meant to show you the new filter and preliminary tests. This is a finished product not prototype; R&D is complete.

Thanks,
Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Then why does it cost 250.00 to coat a 77mm piece of glass from Schneider, but only 75.00 for Teffin?

I'm extremely happy with my 486, I see no advantage to this new filter. The T1 was a waste of money. Does this new filter offer anything better than the T1, I'm concerned that as it's a dye based filter it will have much the same issues.

Can we please get a spectrograph of this filter, they're the only way to know what a filter is doing.

I felt I had to take a minute and send a small kudos to Ryan at Schneider Optics.

Honestly, I have not purchased an IR filter (yet) for my EX-3. But, I appreciate the fact that a representative from Schneider reads the threads, hears about potential issues, and tries to present potential solutions.

Obviously, increasing sales for their company is a desired outcome - but having a rep take time to answer basic questions and present information (albeit naturally biased in some cases) only allows us all to make better informed decisions.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and they are all welcome from my perspective. That's what makes me better informed when I decide on a purchase.

So whether we each may believe one particular filter (or accessory for that matter) is priced too high, too low, or performs great - or very poorly based on our needs - it's great that there are some companies out there who are still willing to find ways to better understand and serve their customers by reading and addressing our comments as best as possible.

Hi Ryan

Good to hear you're trying to improve the EX series of cameras.

Personally I have an EX3 and I really like the colour it gives to the skin tones - the subtle red hues and depth in the faces. I agree with Sony - it is a feature! Its just a pity of the effect it has with synthetic black

Recently I used the 486 filter because of a black / magenta t-shirt. Yes it cured that but at the expense of making the faces more yellow and loose a lot of their life. In reality this person had a bit more pink to her complexion.
I think one of the reason I like the EX3 is that the skin tones look so life like and radiant

So my wish for this new filter is that it cuts off less of the IR red than the 486, but still makes black, black.
With the new Platinum range coming in April will there be different degrees of IR cut that we can use?

Ryan,

Thanks for the trade-in offer! nice to see that Schneider believes in their products

Can you clarify your comment about the coming "Platinum IRND" filters: are the April filters combined IR and ND, or will they include a new/improved IR (no ND) that doesn't have the color cast that the pending IR one does?

Interesting. Looking forward to the tests and to comparisons to the T1.

I'm interested in any test results as well. I realize no solution is perfect short of the camera makers getting it right the first time. But there may be trade-offs to weigh between the top IR contenders that blur the line as to which filter is best for a particular shooter's needs.

Is there any chance there might be a return policy that might allow a return after we try for ourselves if it doesn't work for us as well as a 486 or a T1?

Thanks

Chad

Please forgive.. I am new. What is the IR filter used for?

This is the filter I have B+W 77mm UV Haze 010 Filter. Is this a good filter for shooting outdoors in bright sunlight?

Eddie.

The EX1 camera sometimes makes black fabrics look brown or reddish. That is referred to as "far red" contamination. IR filters attempt to correct this problem.

B&H always has a return policy as I recall.

So do many shops.

I'm interested in any test results as well. I realize no solution is perfect short of the camera makers getting it right the first time. But there may be trade-offs to weigh between the top IR contenders that blur the line as to which filter is best for a particular shooter's needs.

Is there any chance there might be a return policy that might allow a return after we try for ourselves if it doesn't work for us as well as a 486 or a T1?

Thanks

Chad

Chad,

Schneider offers a 14 day return policy on this offer. We will wait until outside the return policy before we credit the value of the trade-in offer so everything is simple as possible.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Then why does it cost 250.00 to coat a 77mm piece of glass from Schneider, but only 75.00 for Teffin?

I cannot speak to our competition's manufacturing processes but I can tell you that most of thier filter line is made from Soda Lime glass which is the same stuff that is in regular window panes in a house or untempered auto glass.

Schneider users water-white Schott glass from Germany and is of the highest optical quality. Also the dye that we use in this filter to avoid the green shift in the final image is much more expensive than the dye Tiffen uses. Make no mistake; this filter is not the same as the T1.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Ryan,

Thanks for the trade-in offer! nice to see that Schneider believes in their products

Can you clarify your comment about the coming "Platinum IRND" filters: are the April filters combined IR and ND, or will they include a new/improved IR (no ND) that doesn't have the color cast that the pending IR one does?

Brent,

The new Platinum IRND filters coming in April do not have the color cast that the Platinum IR 1/2 Stop. They are truly neutral grey, feature no color cast, and we believe work on all cameras digital or film.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

I felt I had to take a minute and send a small kudos to Ryan at Schneider Optics.

Honestly, I have not purchased an IR filter (yet) for my EX-3. But, I appreciate the fact that a representative from Schneider reads the threads, hears about potential issues, and tries to present potential solutions.

Obviously, increasing sales for their company is a desired outcome - but having a rep take time to answer basic questions and present information (albeit naturally biased in some cases) only allows us all to make better informed decisions.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and they are all welcome from my perspective. That's what makes me better informed when I decide on a purchase.

So whether we each may believe one particular filter (or accessory for that matter) is priced too high, too low, or performs great - or very poorly based on our needs - it's great that there are some companies out there who are still willing to find ways to better understand and serve their customers by reading and addressing our comments as best as possible.

Ed,

Thanks. If nothing else, we hope to understand what everybody is using and how we can better help everybody who uses our products.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

I'm extremely happy with my 486, I see no advantage to this new filter. The T1 was a waste of money. Does this new filter offer anything better than the T1, I'm concerned that as it's a dye based filter it will have much the same issues.

Can we please get a spectrograph of this filter, they're the only way to know what a filter is doing.

I do not have a spectrograph available for public release yet but we will have satisfying user reviews soon.

We will do our best to present all the facts about this filter.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Hi Ryan

Good to hear you're trying to improve the EX series of cameras.

Personally I have an EX3 and I really like the colour it gives to the skin tones - the subtle red hues and depth in the faces. I agree with Sony - it is a feature! Its just a pity of the effect it has with synthetic black

Recently I used the 486 filter because of a black / magenta t-shirt. Yes it cured that but at the expense of making the faces more yellow and loose a lot of their life. In reality this person had a bit more pink to her complexion.
I think one of the reason I like the EX3 is that the skin tones look so life like and radiant

So my wish for this new filter is that it cuts off less of the IR red than the 486, but still makes black, black.
With the new Platinum range coming in April will there be different degrees of IR cut that we can use?


Steve,

The new Platinum IR range of filters uses an exclusing formulation of dyes that do not require multiple IR cut ranges. We are confident that this filter series absorbs at all the appropriate ranges for most if not all digital cinema and HDV cameras in current manufacture.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Hello, this filter produces vignetting as 486?
Thanks

Sounds like just what I asked for from Santa. I'm eager to test this out.

There would be no point in this filter if it vignetted like the 486. Schneider already makes the 486 - why bother with a duplicate.

Brent,

The new Platinum IRND filters coming in April do not have the color cast that the Platinum IR 1/2 Stop. They are truly neutral grey, feature no color cast, and we believe work on all cameras digital or film.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Hi Ryan,

Forgive me if I'm just being dense, but...

1) is the filter coming in April the same as the one coming now, but without the color cast problems?

2) does the filter coming in April have ND on top of the IR filter, so it's different than the one coming now (just IR)?

3) probably answered by the above questions, but if the one coming in April doesn't have the color cast problems, why not wait until April to buy one?

Brent

Ryan,

Are you planning to also have a line of ND platinum and related question, will one platinum filter coupled with a range of ND's handle the IR problem over a range of normal ND filters?

My own observations indicated that the ND IR/Far red issues have greater complications.
When testing with Art I noticed many high quality ND filters ( yours, Formatt and Tiffen - both IR ND and normal ND filters) all showed Red contamination to my Naked Eye as well as to the camera! Oddly some other ND brands did not (my own Heliopan and B+W)

In addition I found that many internal ND's on both Sony and Panasonic cameras did not have red contamination, but on the same cameras shooting through the above mentioned external ND's did show contamination. So those internal filters are apparently doing something right.

Lenny

Hi Ryan,

Forgive me if I'm just being dense, but...

1) is the filter coming in April the same as the one coming now, but without the color cast problems?

2) does the filter coming in April have ND on top of the IR filter, so it's different than the one coming now (just IR)?

3) probably answered by the above questions, but if the one coming in April doesn't have the color cast problems, why not wait until April to buy one?

Brent

The Platinum IRND filters coming in April do not have color cast and will be available in ND.3 to ND1.2 with other densities coming later.

The Platinum IRND filters coming April are ND combined with the current 1/2 stop IR but everything is balanced out so again no color cast.

The reason you would want the 1/2 stop available now is if you can't afford to lose 1 stop or more. If you can afford to lose 1 stop, then the Platinum IRND filters will be the best option because no white balance will be required.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Ryan,

Are you planning to also have a line of ND platinum and related question, will one platinum filter coupled with a range of ND's handle the IR problem over a range of normal ND filters?

My own observations indicated that the ND IR/Far red issues have greater complications.
When testing with Art I noticed many high quality ND filters ( yours, Formatt and Tiffen - both IR ND and normal ND filters) all showed Red contamination to my Naked Eye as well as to the camera! Oddly some other ND brands did not (my own Heliopan and B+W)

In addition I found that many internal ND's on both Sony and Panasonic cameras did not have red contamination, but on the same cameras shooting through the above mentioned external ND's did show contamination. So those internal filters are apparently doing something right.

Lenny

Lenny,

Mixing the current Platinum 1/2 Stop IR with regular NDs will create an extra 1/2 stop of light loss and color cast but would work otherwise. If you buy the new Platinum IRND filters then you will not need additional white balance and stop values will be accurate to the filter.

You are correct. All ND filters have some red leak that can be visible especially with Tungsten light.

We have tested all brands and we are confident that our regular ND filters are the most neutral grey on the market.

The new Platinum IRND filters have dyes in them that offset this far red issue making them even more neutral grey than our current ND filters.

The internal filters in a camera are usually gel or resin so they have different color balance characteristics but are lower optical quality than glass.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Hello, this filter produces vignetting as 486?
Thanks

The 486 has many layers of coatings which reflect the IR light. The color vignetting experienced on the 486 at wide angles is due to light entering the layers of coatings at an off axis angle. The Platinum 1/2 Stop IR is a filter that uses dyes that are internal to the filter and therefore the vignetting issues are non-existent.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

The Platinum IRND filters coming in April do not have color cast and will be available in ND.3 to ND1.2 with other densities coming later.

The Platinum IRND filters coming April are ND combined with the current 1/2 stop IR but everything is balanced out so again no color cast.

The reason you would want the 1/2 stop available now is if you can't afford to lose 1 stop or more. If you can afford to lose 1 stop, then the Platinum IRND filters will be the best option because no white balance will be required.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Thanks for clarifying!

Ryan:

I'm curious (or perhaps confused): Why would we buy the new Platinum IR filter one must color correct right now, when we can wait a month and buy the new and improved version that doesn't require compensating for the glass tint?

And isn't there anything you can do to bring the cost down somewhat so it is more competitive with Tiffen?

The april filter is a combination IR + ND. The one available now is just an IR no ND - probably the more important filter for the average EX user.

I don't know, maybe it's my computer screen (24"iMac)... I can certainly see the red in the example before correction, but I also see green in the example after correction.

Perhaps the new IRND will fix that?

The new Platinum IRND will not require any color balance whatsoever. The IRND.3 will probably be the best solution if you can afford the one stop of light loss.

If you can only afford 1/2 stop of light loss, then the Platinum 1/2 Stop IR filter will be the best bet.

If you can afford no light loss and shoot at less than full wide angle, then the Schneider True-Cut 680 or B+W 486 will remain the best solution from Schneider.

Ryan Avery
Schneider Optics

Thank you for your company support, Mr. Avery.

I did not realize that my in-camera filters would not be as good as glass. How does the IRND.3 work in conjunction with in-camera ND filters such as those of the Sony EX1? If there are any limitations, such as a green shift (?) on wide angle for the B+W 486, please let us know. The Schneider IRND.3 seems to be just the right filter for outdoor use in which I generally find the spacing of the Sony EX1 ND filters to be too great to allow me to set the camera between f/4 and f/5.6 for best sharpness .

What I don't understand is why nobody has offered replacements for ND filters interior to the EX3 with filters of this type. I spoke to one of the Schneider engineers a few years ago and thought something would be happening but after all this time... The only problem would be that you lose 1/2 stop of light permanently and possible not have correct color temp. settings in camera. But with the filters replaced it would never be an issue to forget to put it on, and not be something adding to the front of the camera, and you could change lenses without having to worry about another filter. I would pay for a replacement ND filter wheel....

I have both the Tiffen T1 and the Schneider 486 and neither is good enough but do help when there is no other choice.

"I have both the Tiffen T1 and the Schneider 486 and neither is good enough"

As a near customer of these filters for my EX1, I am curious about your statement. Schneider now has the Platinum IRND.3 . What do you not like about the Schneider 486? Though, I agree. I would also pay for a replacement of the EX1 ND filters. Does the EX3 have the same problem? I thought both the EX1R and EX3 were improved with IR reduction.

The 486 is good enough except when fully zoomed out. There is a green vignetting at the edges of the image. This is because the 486 is an interference filter and beyond a certain angle of incidence of the light the filter characteristics change. So the 486 is only useable zoomed beyond about 10mm if I remember correctly. This severely limits the usefulness of the filter. The other problem with all of these add on filter solutions is that none work with my wide angle adapter.

The real solution is to replace the ND filters inside the camera for these new types.

Les, how big is the green vignette area on a full zoom-out? 10% of frame? More?

Does the B+W 486 have the same problem as the Schneider 486? Are B+W and Schneider sharing a product or are they the same company?

Tipps u. Tricks: UV-IR Cut Filter B+W 486 , Jos. Schneider Optische Werke GmbH (http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/tipps/uv-ir_cut_filter.htm)
B+W 486 UV-IR Cut Filter

"With increasing angle of incidence, this leads to a change in light color towards blue. This effect can clearly be seen by looking at an UV-IR barrier filter from an angle. The color of the reflected light changes, with a similar effect on the light traveling through the filter.

The filter is therefore not suitable for lens systems with
an angle of view of more than 60°"

I have not seen any posts on 77MM TRUE-CUT 680 IR FILTER

https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=1303&IID=6947

The Schneider Optics True-Cut IR 680 is similar to the True-Cut 750 except that it blocks light at the very edge of the visible spectrum for certain high definition cameras that require extra IR blocking to achieve true black tones. Some cameras that can take advantage of the extra IR blocking abilities of the True-Cut IR 680 are the Sony PMW-EX1 and PMW-EX3.
Most high-definition cameras have a high sensitivity to light in the IR spectrum, and though the IR light is not visible to the human eye, it can result in odd color shifts and prevent a camera’s imagers from capturing true blacks. As digital cinematographers use multi-stop neutral-density (ND) filters to allow them to open their lens iris for more depth of field, IR light begins to dominate light from the visible spectrum, making its pollution all the more apparent.
Schneider, a world leader in precision optics for nearly a century, developed its True-Cut IR 680 filter to remove the IR spectrum from the light path, resulting in more vibrant colors and true blacks from both CCD and CMOS imagers. The True-Cut IR filter blocks the IR light mere nanometers from the visible spectrum, eliminating IR pollution from the image

Les, how big is the green vignette area on a full zoom-out? 10% of frame? More?

I would say it is quite noticeable about 20% or so from the edge of field. I just rechecked and I need to zoom to at least 15mm for it to be sufficiently gone to not be objectionable.

Does the B+W 486 have the same problem as the Schneider 486? Are B+W and Schneider sharing a product or are they the same company?
No idea.

Tipps u. Tricks: UV-IR Cut Filter B+W 486 , Jos. Schneider Optische Werke GmbH (http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/tipps/uv-ir_cut_filter.htm)
B+W 486 UV-IR Cut Filter

"With increasing angle of incidence, this leads to a change in light color towards blue. This effect can clearly be seen by looking at an UV-IR barrier filter from an angle. The color of the reflected light changes, with a similar effect on the light traveling through the filter.

The filter is therefore not suitable for lens systems with
an angle of view of more than 60°"

Well the 486 was sold as a solution for the EX1 and EX3, considering the above statement or not.

The thing with replacing the filters in the ND wheel inside the camera is that they are very small and therefore much less expensive to produce. A kit with the three needed replacements would and should cost less than 1/3 in total than a front filter. If they are sold for the EX3, a skilled owner or a local camera service shop would be able to replace them quite easily. Another way to supply it would be pre-installed in a Sony replacement part filter wheel. Almost any person could replace it with some instruction. For the EX1 I would say a very skilled owner could do it, or a local camera service shop. Either way it would be a very effective solution for those who need the near IR problem fixed and probably for the same price in total in the end.

Les, you have a great idea about replacement of the internal filters : cheap, and most importantly, convenient.

Thank you. If only Schneider had considered this idea when I talked to them directly a couple of years ago....

How resistant to surface scratching and marking are the new filters going to be. One cannot forever stop idiots from touching our stuff. I have a IR 750 which is an expensive lesson in conservation. I had two uses out of it before it got a vertical scratch in the surface coating.

This thread is beginning to look like a moan and groan session. We might need to be a little careful otherwise Ryan may have to retreat to the bunker.

I think Ryan, that what you are up against is one or two or maybe more people here have become conditioned if sometimes resentful towards being paying customers of a very complex software or a firmware based hardware product for which they become involuntary beta testers. In that instance the vendors offer free incremental updates or upgrades between major revisions, which makes the investment worthwhile most times.

When it comes to much simpler hardware, once you pay up, it's yours. Something the user may not like may not become apparent straight away. By that time, the product may also have some general wear and tear, example - scratches or cleaning marks. Therefore as one broke it, one owns it, to keep, hold and to cherish be it useless or not.

It is likely an impossible business plan for you to offer incremental revisions. The exchange offer is as close as you are likely to be able to get in that optical glass can be recycled to offset some losses.

At what seems to be a premium price, people want to know what they are getting. If that means you need to provide a spectral chart, then that might be a bullet that has to be bit before you turn the product loose in the marketplace.

Manufacturers of motion picture film have provided spectral charts of their products' performance for years. Reputable lens manufacturers do something similar. Makers of sound equipment publish the frequency and noise performance charts of their gear.

The manufacturers of prosumer level video camcorders probably should also be a bit more upfront. Over time, having to resort to iffy workarounds annoys people. Did JVC ever really recover the lost trust from their "split screen" and "blown firewire port" debacles. Sony took a bit of a slap over audio deficiencies in their prosumer version of their legendary VX2000 camcorder, the PD150.

Your filters represent a workaround for current deficiencies in camera products, which people have unfortunately become conditioned to expect. It is not your fault but is likely why people do want to know the technical guts of the fix they are putting hands in wallets for, lest they replace one problem with another.

Planar figuring and finishing of optical grade glass is a more expensive business than many appreciate and you are likely doing well bringing them in at the price you already charge. However "trust us because we say it is good" is unlikely to win us hoary lot of doubting Thomas's over. Give us as much techspec as you can without compromising the security of your intellectual property and you may find the troops more accepting.

Bob, thanks. Yes, we want more info for specialized equipment.

The technical information about the IR cut filters on the Schneider site is concise but not enough to choose among them. How close is the "near-cut" Platinum IRND IR-cut performance to that of the Tru-Cut 680 IR? The IRND is described as being free of off-angle color shift problems. Great. Is this the case for True-Cut IR ?

MPTV True-Cut IR
https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=1699

MPTV Platinum IRND
https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogSubCategoryDisplay.aspx?CID=1698

As for the IR 750 filter, I am please with how it works with heavy ND. I have not so far observed any vignetting or darker corners on a SI2K image but I have not tested it with a wide lens like the 9mm or 5.7mm yet.

Greens on foliage seem to reproduce more faithfully.

Bob, for which cameras do you mount the Schneider 750?

Ryan,

Thanks for the information so far. I assume you have the filter in house, so come on surely you can give us a better example of what it can do rather than just two shots of black cloth. I think most of us would like to see a shot of someone wearing a black jacket and clean skin tones etc. For a product that is going to cost $250 we need a little more convincing.

Have just noticed that the original post was uploaded February 2010, I thought this was new product information.

I must be going daft in my old age.

Having said that, I would have expected to see some better examples of what the filter can do - or was it never produced.

Gints.


The camera was the Silicon Imaging SI2K which at that time was running DVR1. It is now on DVR2 which seems to look better.

In Western Australia our light is hard and intense. On 0db gain the lenses as closed as they can be so ND filtering is necessary. Soft leaved deciduous foliage seems to sometimes aquire a grey tone on the undersides of leaves which is an un-natural look. It can be made to go away in post so it is not a biggie.

I intitally thought it might just be the penetration of light through the leaf is insufficient and when the full 11.5 stops of image is used there is not enough from the light through the leaf to register any green. Orange/yellow coloured laterite rock around here also does not reproduce faithfully on many cameras. I thought it was just something I had to live with until the IR debate started.

I bought the IR 750 by blind decision in the end. I could find nothing mentioned specific to the SI2K. I went with what was supposed to be good with the RED camera and that seems to have done the job.

I have yet to give it a shot on the EX1 but that may happen in the next two weeks as I am undertaking behind-the-scenes coverage for a local movie being shot on film.

A call to Schneider Optics revealed that these filters are in production , though it's a lengthy of a back-order situation with the larger square filters taking precedence over the 77mm screw-in filters. I've ordered one and will post some screen grabs.