Hey All,

So I am looking at getting a new camera. I do a lot of filming in a very low light recording studio. The only audio i need is people talking. I cover the rest with what was recorded in the studio.

I have read both that the 7D is better in low light and that the 5D is better? So which one really is better?

My price limit is really that of the 5D. I currently have a Sony HVR-A1U which is absolutely worthless in low light.

So my question is which camera should I get. Or should I get a totally different one. I like the 5D and 7D because it gives me the option to take pictures as well.

Thanks
-Lars Koerkemeier

5D has a larger sensor and is better in low light. From what I hear the new 1D is even better than the 5D so how big is your budget?

I posted some low light footage from both cameras with the same lens and settings here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-5d-mk-ii-hd/473081-input-people-who-went-7d-5d-2.html

5D has a larger sensor and is better in low light. From what I hear the new 1D is even better than the 5D so how big is your budget?

The 1D is out of my budget. I just cant afford $5000 for a camera right now.

I posted some low light footage from both cameras with the same lens and settings here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...t-7d-5d-2.html

Well theres definitely quite a difference there.

Are there any plans of new cameras that might come out?

Thanks
-Lars Koerkemeier

Do you already have a part of your budget set aside for lenses?

now with the firmware upgrade for the 5D confirmed definitely i think the 5D is a way better choice plus full frame

Why is full-frame better than APS-C? The 5D might perform better in low light, but the size of the sensor is not the only factor in that. The 1D Mark IV is way better than the 5D in low light, but it uses an APS-H sensor, which has a 1.3x crop factor.

I'm not saying that full-frame is inferior to APS-C, nor am I denying that it offers certain benefits. But I just don't see full-frame as a clear-cut advantage. If a prospective buyer needs full-frame, then he/she should buy a full-frame camera. If not, then there better be other advantages of the camera under consideration to justify the large price difference.

If the technology is identical, a larger sensor will collect more light and have a better signal to noise ratio. Clearly, the 1D4 has superior technology in its sensor and signal path.

Why is full-frame better than APS-C?Full frame & APS-C are just different. For me, full frame gives me more options with wide angle lenses that can shoot well in low light. Specifically the Canon EF 16-35mm 2.8, and EF 24-70mm 2.8, as well as several Canon EF prime lenses. That's important to me. If you're someone who needs more telephoto, APS-C has more options, but you are limited in the selection of good wide angles lenses that are still decent in low light (f2.8 or better).

Depending on where you live, the overheating of the 7D might be an issue. For example, New York City in the summer, or Manila & Singapore right now ... I have sweat dripping of my nose as I type this, and because of that I'm darn glad I went with the 5D.

One thing other thing in favor of the 7D, it has a built-in wireless trigger for Canon Speedlights, a great feature for fast light weight flash photography, that doesn't exist on the 5D.

[EDIT] Just thought I'd add, for me wide = 16-24mm on a full frame camera. But that's just me. I have had many nights making drinking bets on what constitutes a "wide angle".

If the technology is identical, a larger sensor will collect more light and have a better signal to noise ratio. Clearly, the 1D4 has superior technology in its sensor and signal path.
You don't know that, and it's unreasonable to assume. What seems to be a far more convincing factor is the fact that the pixels on the 1D are much bigger. The 5D Mark II has the exact same sensor as the 1Ds Mark III, Canon's previous flagship DSLR. Do you seriously believe that the jump in performance could be that great in a difference of only one generation? Why is the difference not as great between the original 5D and the 5D Mark II, or the 7D and the 50D, or the T2i and the T1i?

Depending on where you live, the overheating of the 7D might be an issue.
I don't see that overheating is that much more of a significant issue on the 7D as compared to the 5D. In my opinion, the overheating issue on the 7D has been overstated.

...I just don't see full-frame as a clear-cut advantage. If a prospective buyer needs full-frame, then he/she should buy a full-frame camera. If not, then there better be other advantages of the camera under consideration to justify the large price difference.I think your assessment is spot-on and I agree with you completely. The primary advantage of full-frame is the ability to go wide. While it is indeed possible to achieve a wide field of view with an APS-C sensor, the best L-class wide angle lenses such as the EF 14mm f/2.8L Rectilinear will require a full-frame sensor to maximize the wide angle of view that they offer.

Hi Chris, Howya doin?

I just realised you cant be quoted :@)


To add, in my mind the chief reason for a video enabled DSLR is to get the shallow DOF look. The 5D2 gives you the most Bokeh for a given lens, it basically is VistaVision. In fact it can give you more than twice the blurred area than a cropped cam. Also compared to a 7D/T2i, a 5D2 can use cheaper and slower glass for the same DOF, without compromising perspective.

You have already mentioned the wide angle benefits. If anyone has seen footage from a 24/1.4 on a 5D shot close and personal, no cropped cam can ever match it.

Hi John,

There's really no need to quote an immediately preceding post, so we took away that option in order to reduce forum clutter. The quote function is a great way to reference something that happened earlier in the thread, but it gets kind of annoying when it just repeats the post that immediately preceded it. That's why it isn't there any more.

Smart move. Ha....now I can quote you.

I don't see that overheating is that much more of a significant issue on the 7D as compared to the 5D. In my opinion, the overheating issue on the 7D has been overstated.The overheating is only an issue on the 7D. I think you're right it's not a "huge" issue, but it's something to take into consideration. Winter is just ending in Asia/U.S./Europe and I bet we see a lot more reports about overheating (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-7d-hd/473755-7d-overheating.html).

To add, in my mind the chief reason for a video enabled DSLR is to get the shallow DOF look. The 5D2 gives you the most Bokeh for a given lens, it basically is VistaVision.
What is this obsession with shallow DOF? Now I'm certainly not saying that shallow DOF is or should not be desirable, but the case that so many 5D users seem to be making is that the shallower the better. In that case, the holy grail must be, like, one inch of focus at all times...

So deep DOF is worthless or just inherently inferior? If that's so, then much of the work of Gregg Toland, Orson Welles, and Jean Renoir must be unwatchable. Come to think of it, the popularity of shallow DOF in 35mm cinematography is a fairly recent phenomenon, so does that mean that none of the directors and DPs up to the Depression Era knew how to make good pictures? I wonder why VistaVision didn't last very long, or why filmmakers never demanded to make all of their movies in 70mm...

I thought that the point of HDSLRs, and the 35mm adapters that came before them, was to make images that more closely resembled movies that you see in a theater. The goal was shallower DOF, not shallowest DOF. How did people lose sight of that along the way? In the movies, pretty much nobody shoots at f/1.4. If Kubrick used f/0.7, then it was only because he wanted to shoot candlelight, not because he was striving for shallow DOF.

I can understand the argument that the 5D allows you more options with shallow DOF, just like it offers more options with wide-angle lenses. But unless someone really needs those options, or specifically going for a certain look, then I just can't understand such blanket statements about shallow DOF and HDSLRs or the need to spend so much more money on something that might not actually be in line with a shooter's original goals.

The overheating is only an issue on the 7D. I think you're right it's not a "huge" issue, but it's something to take into consideration. Winter is just ending in Asia/U.S./Europe and I bet we see a lot more reports about overheating (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eos-7d-hd/473755-7d-overheating.html).
You know, I used my 5D for the vast majority of the footage on a short that I made last fall. And the vast majority of that footage was shot on one weekend. Now, Septembers here in Texas can be quite warm, but the temperature wasn't sweltering on those two sunny days either. On the Sunday, I only had two or three scenes to shoot, one of which was shot entirely with my Panasonic GH1. But I did carry my 5D, in its camera bag, everywhere that I went that day.

I believe that I actually used the 5D for less than an hour. The scene was outdoors, at a swimming pool. When I reviewed the footage on my computer later, I was shocked to discover that the last take of the last set-up from that day had really ghastly noise. Basically, it looked like I had been shooting at ISO 6400. But the take immediately preceding it, which had the same set-up and the same settings, looked OK. The only explanation that I have is that the camera overheated. Literally nothing else would make sense.

Some 7D users have reported shooting for hours at a time in hot environments (like 90-100 degrees) without any problems. I really think that the difference between the 7D and the 5D, in regards to the overheating issue, is not very significant.

My 5D2 overheated once. I had left it on a tripod with the sun shining into the LCD. I got a warning message, shut it down for five or ten minutes, and haven't had a problem since.

This is especially important to avoid when using a loupe. You can burn a hole in the LCD!

I should get some opaque, black cloth, like photographers used to wear with view cameras and flash powder. :)

We live in the South of France which while not as hot as Texas is frequently very sunny & warm. The only time that ether of our 5DIIs has overheated was a very similar situation to that mentioned by Jon with the camera on a tripod left in full sunshine in summer. So without the application of external heating I don't think that overheating is much of an issue for the 5DII. The 7D has two DigicIV processors versus the single one in the 5DII so perhaps they run hot & that is why the 7D is more prone to overheating.

Well...as I mentioned elswhere I've had my 7D now over two months and have yet to see the indicator for overheating. Also, there have been at least two folks so far that has complained about the new T2i'/550D's overheating. So it seems a cam with two sensors (like the 7D) is not necessarily the issue. If anything the 7D's very tight seal should contribute more to the problems we've seen IMO.