I have an NX5U on loan for 48 hours. I was doing some comparison footage with my Panasonic HMC150 and the footage from the NX5U looks really soft. Both cameras were in 1080/30p in the highest quality mode, all manual...focus, WB, f/stop, gain and the Picture Profile/Scene File was set to neutral. I doubled checked everything and even reset the camera, but nothing helped.

Has anyone else experienced this? Last year I compared the Sony Z5 to the HMC150 and the images looked really close, but the NX5U isn't even close. Any ideas on what I could be doing wrong? I will post some footage shortly.

Have you contacted Sony about this?

Also, what's teh serial number and pedigree of the cam -- has it been dropped?

Adam

The test footage I have seen so far looked soft too. It's soft enough I would think it has to be a setting issue, and not normal operation. A lot noisier than I would have ever expected too.

I have only had my NX5U since beginning of the week and the weather here has been snowing all the time so outside shots were through the window. My comparison has been with my XR500. At first I thought the XR500 was better!!!! Analyzing the clips in my NLE scopes the XR500 had a lot more colour. So I added colour and contrast to the NX5U and they looked close to identical !!!! The NX5U now had a little more detail in the shadows than the XR500. This was one of the main reasons to get the NX5U as the picture from the XR500, my full stage unattended camera,was looking a lot better than the FX1!!! Just as with the FX1 ( which has similar characteristics in comparison to the XR500) I think it is a matter of setting up the camera as I want it to be. I have experimented a little with the Picture Profiles and will take time to set some up as I want them to be.
It is easy to apply a little sharpening in post if needed but impossible to take away too much edge enhancement.
As to noise the NX5U is a lot cleaner than the FX1 but not as clean as the XR500!!!!
Ron Evans

Have you contacted Sony about this?

Also, what's teh serial number and pedigree of the cam -- has it been dropped?

Adam

Hi Adam,

The serial number is 110010. I'm not sure what you mean by pedigree. On the bottom plate with the serial number it says HXR-NX5U. It was shipped from San Hose, CA and I just picked it up yesterday afternoon.

The test footage I have seen so far looked soft too. It's soft enough I would think it has to be a setting issue, and not normal operation. A lot noisier than I would have ever expected too.

Hi Jeff,

Are you thinking that as the camera runs more, it will start looking better? I will give it a try.

I have only had my NX5U since beginning of the week and the weather here has been snowing all the time so outside shots were through the window. My comparison has been with my XR500. At first I thought the XR500 was better!!!! Analyzing the clips in my NLE scopes the XR500 had a lot more colour. So I added colour and contrast to the NX5U and they looked close to identical !!!! The NX5U now had a little more detail in the shadows than the XR500. This was one of the main reasons to get the NX5U as the picture from the XR500, my full stage unattended camera,was looking a lot better than the FX1!!! Just as with the FX1 ( which has similar characteristics in comparison to the XR500) I think it is a matter of setting up the camera as I want it to be. I have experimented a little with the Picture Profiles and will take time to set some up as I want them to be.
It is easy to apply a little sharpening in post if needed but impossible to take away too much edge enhancement.
As to noise the NX5U is a lot cleaner than the FX1 but not as clean as the XR500!!!!
Ron Evans

Hi Ron,

A sony camera that cost one quarter of the NX5U looked better! That is really wierd. When I got the camera it was set on Picture Profile 5. I returned it to no Picture Profile to do the testing. I also ran the HMC150 at Scene File 1, which is the factory default neutral setting.

I tested each camera through it's various Picture Profiles and Scene Files, but nothing made the Sony look anywhere close as sharp as the Panny. It was at that point that I did a reset, just thinking maybe something has been messed up in the setup of the camera. Nothing, it still looked soft.

After nothing looked better with the reset, I thought maybe it's just my eyes. The picture looked very sharp in the LCD using the Peaking and Expanded Focus to obtain manual focus. The focus distance was about 6 feet. I tried focus with the macro on and off. Nothing. Then I adjusted focus between 4.5 feet and 7.5 feet in .1 increments. Nothing.

I do have an FX1, so I could compare the NX5U to the FX1. Here is another thing that I noticed. When I did a comparison with the HMC150 and Z5 last year, they were very close to each other. Nothing like the NX5U.

I just keep thinking there has to be something wrong with me or this particular camera because it doesn't even come close to the Z5 or HMC150. Anyone can make a mental error and I am certainly not perfect, but I do know a little about cameras. I know the Canon XH-A1 does not look good with the factory settings and it takes some tweeking to make it really sing. Maybe that is the case with the NX5U, but it doesn't follow Sony's track record.

I have owned a lot of Sonys, DSR250, PD150, FX1, and Z1. I have shot with the EX1, Z7 and Z5. All of those cameras looked great, straight out of the box. I used Picture Profiles to make them look a little better to my liking, but nothing like what I am seeing with the NX5U.

I double checked all of my manual settings and I have shot with Sony's long enough to know what I am looking for. In the LCD is see gain at 0, shutter at 60, f/stop number, manual focus, no steady shot. I tried some with the steady shot and it did not make a difference. I switched the auto/manual switch over auto and I saw the "A" show up by the manual readouts, which is a cool new feature, but it did not improve the quality of the picture.

I can see that Sony has really dedicated themselves to some really cool features on this camera, so it makes no sense why the footage would look so bad. It came with the 128 Gb Flash Memory drive, which is really cool and light weight. I plugged the Flash Drive into my laptop and grabbed footage from it, just thinking maybe it was my SDHC card, but no. The footage looked exactly the same as the footage from the SDHC card.

If it wasn't the weekend I would contact Sony and I have to return the camera to my local rep Sunday evening, so I would really like to get to the bottom of this before my time is up. Does anyone else have a NX5U and an HMC150 or even another HD Sony cam that they could post some footage of? I am hoping I just got a bum unit.

Mark, as you see here Sony NX5 & EX-1 comparison on Vimeo the NX5 is not as good in low light and in details compared to EX1, but it's not too bad either.
It will be helpful if you can upload a side by side test with NX5 and HMC150.
From what I can see here nx5u.com (http://www.nx5u.com/) the quality looks very good in my subjective point of view.

Here is the comparison footage.
Sony NX5U and Panasonic HMC150 on Vimeo

I think there is a lot of edge enhancement with the 150, and there is something not right with footage from the NX5, they are stretch horizontaly, and when something is stretch from its original aspect ratio it will look soft, make sure your project is the same as what you are recording.

In the comparison the footage from the Sony looks out of focus. Obviously, the camera was in focus. Maybe you just have a bad camera?

I think there is a lot of edge enhancement with the 150, and there is something not right with footage from the NX5, they are stretch horizontaly, and when something is stretch from its original aspect ratio it will look soft, make sure your project is the same as what you are recording.

Hi Khoi,

Both cameras were in 1920x1080 30p. I setup an Edius project in 1920x1080 30p. The Sony was on the right and the Panasonic was on the left, which is why they have a slightly different angle and perspective. Do you have any other ideas? Thanks.

In the comparison the footage from the Sony looks out of focus. Obviously, the camera was in focus. Maybe you just have a bad camera?

Hi Jordan,

That's what I thought to, so I went back and rechecked my focus. I used both the expanded focus and peaking to manually focus the Sony. Both cameras showed about 6 feet, so then I took the Sony from 4.5ft to 7.5 ft in .1 increments to see if I could find the spot where it looked in focus, but no luck.

The image on the LCD as well as an external monitor looked very sharp, so I was really suprized to see the image look so soft when I brought the AVCHD files into Edius.

Hi Khoi,

Both cameras were in 1920x1080 30p. I setup an Edius project in 1920x1080 30p. The Sony was on the right and the Panasonic was on the left, which is why they have a slightly different angle and perspective. Do you have any other ideas? Thanks.

Just pause vimeo and compare the first 2 pict by clicking between the 2 cam on the first comparison, even if they are side by side and have different perspectite, it wouldn't stretch that much, I'm thinking you accidently recorded the Sony on HDV 1440X1080 and so that is why it stretch on the 1920X1080 timeline and make it soft, another reason they look so much different is that the Pany has so a lot of edge enhancement, look at the white dvd cover at the edge againts the black background, do you see a black halo?
Do you see a black halo around the outer edge of the letter F? and white halo on the inside edge of the letter F? that black&white halo is not supposed to be there, it is only there because of edge enhancement to enhance the contrast of the edge so that people think that it is sharper image, back to the Sony, Adam Wilt has tested it and it has 800lines+, and so 800+ camera for sure don't look like that unless it is defective or user error, I'm thinking the later because at 9db gain it is so noisy and I know that it is not that noisy at 9db, I see that noise on my edius also when I put my HDV clip on a 1920X1080 timeline.

Just a word of caution. Check your footage with BOTH stabilizers set to OFF.

Yes, I have been receiving a few e-mails in regards to a softer NXCAM picture than my Z5U and past Canon XHA-1S.

However, I am wondering if it is a CODEC issue and not so much a hardware situation.

Class 10 cards for downloading compared to Class 6?

Any input?

Also a possibility of a poor back focus factory adjustment.

QUOTE=Jordan Berry;1492026]In the comparison the footage from the Sony looks out of focus. Obviously, the camera was in focus. Maybe you just have a bad camera?[/QUOTE]

Mark, as you see here Sony NX5 & EX-1 comparison on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/9674570) the NX5 is not as good in low light and in details compared to EX1, but it's not too bad either.
It will be helpful if you can upload a side by side test with NX5 and HMC150.
From what I can see here nx5u.com (http://www.nx5u.com/) the quality looks very good in my subjective point of view.

This is how NX5 should look, there is something not right with Mark's NX5 footage.

Hi Khoi,

Thanks for the input. Do you have the NX5U? If so, do you know where to select 1920 versus 1440?

In the Recording Format Menu I selected the third one from the top which is 1080/30p FX, which is the highest quality of 30p. Maybe it's 1440 and not 1920? Maybe the top two choices, 1080/60i, HQ and LP are 1920? I don't know, just guessing and hoping someone has the answer.

Hi Lou,

Yes I turned off the steady shot on both cameras. I used class 6 cards in both cameras and just in case I had a bad SDHC card, I grabbed footage from the Flash Memory drive, but it looked just like the footage from the SDHC card.

Thanks for your suggestions and if you have any more, keep them coming.

Hi Khoi,

Thanks for the input. Do you have the NX5U? If so, do you know where to select 1920 versus 1440?

In the Recording Format Menu I selected the third one from the top which is 1080/30p FX, which is the highest quality of 30p. Maybe it's 1440 and not 1920? Maybe the top two choices, 1080/60i, HQ and LP are 1920? I don't know, just guessing and hoping someone has the answer.

No I don't have one and don't plan to get one anytime soon, but make sure that you recorded it in FX or FH mode, if you recorded it in HQ or LP mode then it will auto go to 1440X1080. Look at Cristian footage, it is nothing like yours, there is something wrong with the camera or your project timeline, but do like I ask? pause between the two camera, there is NO WAY perspective can be that different when both camera are side by side, your footage was stretch.

Hi Khoi,

Now that I scroll up I see there are 4 1080i choices. I'll do the top 1080i and the top 1080p. It would be really helpful if it listed 1920 or 1440, assuming not all are 1920.

Do 1080 30p at "FX" quality, this will make it 1920X1080 at the highest bitrate, if you do HQ or LP it will be 1440X1080 and at very low bitrate and that could contribute to the softness.
Or you can right mouse click on your clip in Edius and chose property and see what size it is that your recorded those clip at before.

Hi Khoi,

1080/30p only has FX and FH mode. 1080/60i has LP, HQ, FH and FX. Thanks for the explantion of LP and HQ being 1440.

I checked on the Edius timeline and the clips are 1920x1080, which I guess makes sense because 1920 is the only mode for 1080/30p.

Oh well that was my guess as to why your clips look so soft, I guess I'm wrong, maybe you have a defective camera for real.

I think I may have just discovered the problem. Lou mentioned a back focus issue. I am encoding the clip now, but when I zoom in for focus and then zoom back out and reframe the shot it looks really soft. Then when I hit infinity, it becomes really sharp. Zoom in and it is really out of focus.

I will post the clip as soon as it comes on line. If it is a back focus issue, is there anything I can do to correct it, or does it need to be sent back to Sony? I only have the camera on loan for the weekend and I was going to go to a wedding tonight to get some footage. It's not a wedding gig, just a vendor that said we could show up and shoot some test footage with the camera.

You must send it back to Sony. On the Z5 topic (in this forum i think) you can read about the back focus problem.
If I remember correctly when you'll leave it in auto focus, the problem will not appear.

I have never experienced a backfocus problem, but this sure looks like what I have seen others describe. Take a look and see what you think.

This camera is just on loan for the weekend, but if I would have just put out $9000 plus on a couple of these, I would be very upset and disappointed.

I am going to shoot some footage tonight at a wedding reception and I guess I will have to use auto focus. I have never shot a reception in all auto focus, so we will see how it goes.

Sony NX5U Back Focus Issue on Vimeo

If I am not mistaken, one must turn MACRO FOCUS>OFF


I am having reservations about upgrading from the Z5U right now. I really like the appearance of my HDv picture. Shot shot a train show and I used tape as a backup to the SONY FLASH DRIVE unit with the CF CARD-best of both worlds. Considering both the current camera and the future NXCAM have the same chip etc., I will have to give much thought about upgrading especially since I prefer the rapid rendering of HDV over my AVCHD camera. But that is my opinion as of now.

ALSO......you can use the camera in AUTO-FOCUS and at the same time, overide the focus manually. This is great feature found on the CANON cameras such as the XH-A1S

BTW: MARK- Nice meeting you at LIVA last time. Hope you enjoyed my video lecture as I did your outstanding seminar.


The Panasonic looks awesome!!

Mark that doesn't just look soft it doesn't look in focus. My comments between the XR500 and NX5U are miniscule in comparison. On the vectorscope the XR500 image was right up on the targets whereas the NX5U was only about 80% of the way. That's the correction I made to give the images the same punch. In full auto the Sony consumer cams have very saturated colour so as with the comparison to the FX1 the more pro cameras in the Sony range always look a little dull until they are tweeked a little. However the XR500 is a very good camera and produces very clean sharp video without the edge enhancement I see in the Canon's for example.
You should maybe shoot both NX5U and the 150 in 720P60 and see how they compare so that the 150 would not have to be enhanced as much.
Just noted the backfocus comments while I was writing this. That could be the issue . I haven't checked mine for back focus since i always use push to focus( spot focus on the XR500) at the zoom I intend to use so I never do the zoom in focus and then frame. Comes from working with consumer cams for a long time that ALL have backfocus problems!!!!!
Ron Evans

Did a quick check of my NX5U backfocus and it seems OK. Will do more tomorrow in better light. Peaking stays locked all the way through the zoom range in either direction. Will post again after more tests tomorrow.

Ron Evans

Mark is exactly right, he has a backfocus issue. The EX1 had this problem in some of the early units, which were corrected by going into the service menu, where there is an automatic "flangeback calibration" procedure. You basically point the camera at a star chart 10 ft away, and it maps the correct focus distances into a lookup table. Thereafter, you can zoom in to focus, zoom back out to have it stay in focus. This is because the lens has a servo controlled, rear focusing element, making the lens varifocal. By building corrections into the lookup table, it behaves thereafter like a parfocal lens, with the additional benefit of no focus breathing, a characteristic of rear focus designs.

I don't know why they put this in the service menu on the EX1, but it is on the regular menu in the PMW350.

Pushing the auto refocus button while zoomed out in manual, while I haven't tried that, might be expecting a bit too much for perfect focus when zooming back in tight, even after the flangeback calibration, but it would be close.

There's more going on there... it may be "backfocus", but how the range registered a different distance practically every time makes me suspect there's more to it than that.

Unless you were on one super dolly (I'm presuming tripod <wink>), the variance in distance readouts was extreme... and probably indicative of camera error of some sort.

I too have been pretty surprised by the XR500, they seem to have really gotten that particular cam "right" in the low light/low noise quality image department. Even the CX500 which is using the same sensor/imaging block (and I presume lens?) is noisier (but it seems to have an extra stop or two in real dark conditions...).

There are so many variables to deal with in these complex cameras, I guess it's hard to get them as close to perfect as possible, not to mention manufacturing variances!

Mark's sample footage looks pretty much identical to the back-focus problems I had with BOTH the Sony HVR-V1U and the HVR-Z7U.

I had huge issues trying to find a resolution to back-focus flaws. It took Sony over a year to replace my cameras, since they kept returning them no better than before, after they were serviced.

My two Z7U's, which have removable lenses, could not properly attain focus with the stock lens - even when doing the back flange adjustment to achieve proper focus throughout the entire zoom range. A really good,on-the-ball tech found a design flaw in the model and he was able to "tweak" both cameras to work beautifully. The issue only related to the stock lens and the dedicated wide angle Sony lens for the Z7U. When a broadcast lens, allowing for the back glass element to be adjusted, back focus wasn't an issue.

If you do a search for back focus issues in the Z7U forum, you can see some of my postings about this issue there.

I truly hope that Sony doesn't have a back focus issue with another camera of this class, especially since Sony has had experience with this problem BIG TIME before. For those who have this issue, do not let any service adviser tell you, like they did me, that this is to be considered "in spec" because it certainly is not.

Ian

Hey, Ian, long time no see! I finally got one of these cameras in the other day and will be testing it on Sunday. I'm planning on using this one, and three more, for a sitcom shoot on Monday, so I hope I don't run into any issues.

It reminds me of the Z7U issues that many folks had with focusing issues and everything else.

I'll post any findings on my unit.

NX5U Test Clip Squirrel on rocks on Vimeo

Did a test with my NX5U down at teh beach just watching some Squirrels play on the rocks. It was honestly more fun to watch the squirrels than shoot with the camera :-)
One more clip coming after this.
Enjoy

Squirrel Test Clip # 2 on Vimeo

One more. better detail shots

i have studied this camera for over a month....its defective, for sure...

Hey, Ian, long time no see! I finally got one of these cameras in the other day and will be testing it on Sunday. I'm planning on using this one, and three more, for a sitcom shoot on Monday, so I hope I don't run into any issues.

It reminds me of the Z7U issues that many folks had with focusing issues and everything else.

I'll post any findings on my unit.

Hey, Marshall . . .

I will be interested in your findings with the new Sony offering. If you have again the same issues you had before, I'd try and bail on the new camera ASAP if Sony doesn't admit they have a handle on the problem at this point. As you know, soft footage doesn't make an image HD -- blurry images just can't hold the information the camera claims it can capture. So, if the new Sony codec is robust and has the potential to
make great pictures, so what. Without a lens that can focus as it should, it's useless.

I would be interested to know how Sony solves the issue.

Ian

Repeated some focusing test this morning on my NX5U and maintains focus throughout the zoom range just fine. So I think I can confirm I do not have a backfocus issue and mine will record quite happily to both FMU and either Memorystick or SDHC.

Ron Evans

My question about the pedigree of the camera is this: who did you get it from and how was it treated before you got it?

You still have not answered the simple question: Was it dropped? This could result in all sorts of focusing chaos. If there was a back focus issue I suspect that would show up on the LCD flip-out screen.

My (replacement) NX5U seems very sharp. The lens is not a Leica or a Zeiss, granted --Minolta lenses, as this one is, aren't the very best -- but aside from some chromatic abberation near the edges ('purple fringing') there seems very little wrong with mine.

I've yet to compare the footage to any other cams, but as for being 'soft', I suspect a drop or a mix-up in processing the AVCHD.

Cheers!

Adam

If I am not mistaken, one must turn MACRO FOCUS>OFF


I am having reservations about upgrading from the Z5U right now. I really like the appearance of my HDv picture...

...BTW: MARK- Nice meeting you at LIVA last time. Hope you enjoyed my video lecture as I did your outstanding seminar.


The Panasonic looks awesome!!

Hi Lou,

You are correct, Macro Focus should be off when not shooting close to the subject.

Aside from the back focus problem, the NX5U has some nice advancements over the Z5 and there are also a few thing missing on the NX5U that I wish they would have carried over from the Z5. I greatly prefer AVCHD over HDV. It holds up better and with Edius Neo, I do not have to transcode the footage, so it is much faster than spending all of those hours capturing tape.

It was great seeing you at LIVA and I did enjoy your lecture. Thanks for the kind words.

...You should maybe shoot both NX5U and the 150 in 720P60 and see how they compare so that the 150 would not have to be enhanced as much.


The first test I did was in 720/60p. I shoot about 90% of my projects in that mode, so that is what I naturally went with. After I previewed some of the 720 footage and it looked so bad, I thought maybe the Sony is weak in 720 so I switched over to 1080 and just left both cameras at 1080/30p for the rest of the testing, having no idea the back focus problem was going to consume so much of my time.

My question about the pedigree of the camera is this: who did you get it from and how was it treated before you got it?

You still have not answered the simple question: Was it dropped? This could result in all sorts of focusing chaos. If there was a back focus issue I suspect that would show up on the LCD flip-out screen.

My (replacement) NX5U seems very sharp. The lens is not a Leica or a Zeiss, granted --Minolta lenses, as this one is, aren't the very best -- but aside from some chromatic abberation near the edges ('purple fringing') there seems very little wrong with mine.

I've yet to compare the footage to any other cams, but as for being 'soft', I suspect a drop or a mix-up in processing the AVCHD.

Cheers!

Adam

Hi Adam,

The camera came from Sony's Demo pool out of San Jose, CA. It was shipped to Tulsa in a Sony hard shell case. Was it ever dropped? I don't know. When I picked up the camera Friday afternoon the hour meter showed 1x10

Hi Mark,

I remember a Sony EX1 customer (I do Sony XDCAM trainings here in germany) who found "bad sharpness when going wide" - it was definetely a backfocus problem: There was simply NO WAY to get in focus when shooting in wide position.

I dont know how to access service menus on the NX5, but I am absolutely sure that your unit has a problem with the lens or BF adjustment.

I´ve seen very nice NX5 files - so please check your cam.


Regarding sensitivity: Yes, its mainly a Z5 with a different codec, Z5, Z7 and NX5 use clearvid cmos sensors that are not as sensitive as the ex1 but hold up quite well.

Best regards

ULI

I reshot the comparison footage, both good lighting and bad lighting with the NX5U in auto focus. I will post the footage when I get a chance.

keep your Panasonics. they work.

Have you resolved this? My NX5 is sharp at all focal lengths, macro and otherwise.

Adam

Hi Adam,

No, Sony has not responded to my phone calls. It is very disappointing to see such a low level of service coming from Sony, especially from a brand new camera.

I know the back focus problem I experienced is not an isolated case. Just tonight I received an email from a videographer in Wisconsin who is having back focus problems with his brand new NX5U.

We received a phone call from a Sony Representative today. He wanted to assure me the NX5U should not have a back focus issue and we had a faulty camera. He said they currently would not have a camera available for us to review until after NAB. We will follow up with the Sony Rep after NAB to more accurately review the NX5U.

Mark, has the issue been resolved?

I am looking to add a second camera to my EX1r, right now I am between the HMC150 and the NX5U.