We where originally going to wait for the next major camera release for an Aspect HD update, yet the addition of Redrock Micro's M2 lens adaptor support has brought this new version out earlier. There are many upgrades, so the update is worth getting for every HDV user.

Aspect HD version 3.2 offers:
* Unique support for Redrock Micro's innovative "M2" Depth of Field lens adapter, through a field dominance aware 180 degree rotation filter that is added during capture.
* Codec upgrades for even high quality awhile LOWERING the bit rate for some video material. Basically some Prospect HD codec upgrades have made their way into Aspect HD.
* Improved 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 upconversion during capture -- color saturated images look even better than before. Increasing the preceived chroma detail.
* Improve scaling algorithms for HD to SD conversion. A must for high quality DVD exports.
* Plus many other minor upgrades from x64 support to non-expiring decoder licenses.

All this over the large feature increase within Aspect HD 3.1.

Please visit www.cineform.com for details.

Already downloaded and playing around with it.

Now I'm curious - if I captured some CF24 stuff and did pull-down removal and everything with AHD 3.1 - will there be a signficant enough improvement in the image quality with the new 4:2:2 upsampling for me to bother re-capturing the footage (I foolishly deleted the *.m2t's to free up disk space for something else - the files were captured "large")?

Other curiousities - is there a link to procedures with Premiere Pro for the software-down-convert to SD resolution options? I looked around through the "export movie" and "media encoder" options, and didn't notice any pre-sets screaming out "USE ME!!" So I imagine it's all built-in and automatic?

In particular, I'm curious if these new down-conversion encoders are capable of outputting properly scaled 4:4:4 SD with all the fields intact and what-not? It's my hope to render all DVDs from uncompressed 4:4:4 SD masters - though admittedly Cineform compressed 4:2:2 masters would be plenty good considering the DVD format itself. I've got a method for doing this via After Effects, but I'd be grinning ear to ear if you guys just simplified the process.

Thanks for the update!

-Steve

Hi Steve,

If you happy with the image quality of AHD 3.1 (which I think you are) then there would be no purpose to recapture. The difference for the new 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 is mostly visible at the edge of deeply saturated objects -- like red on a green background. It is worth the enhancement for future captures.

The new scaler is automatic. It now uses the interlace vs progressive flags stored with the CineForm AVI file and compares that with the current project settings and the desired output format -- choise a scaling algorithm as appropriate. Going from CineForm AVI (4:2:2) to DVD will upconvert to 4:4:4 then scale that to 4:4:4 SD, preserving fields and reversing field dominances as needed (for HDV to SD fields go form top field first to bottom field first.) You should create your own presets for DVD MPEG creation as none of Adobe's are any good. However there is no need to export uncompressed as 4:4:4 internal processing is being used with correct field handling. It is now very simple.

I just tested out the HD -> SD scaling implmentation on a short clip. In my previous experience Premiere Pro didn't handle the fields well at all but this time was different. I got a few unexpected results - which I thought I'd report here.

First off, I thought I'd test a still frame export. File->Export->Frame. I changed the resolution to 720x480 with a PA of 1.2. This exporter didn't give me any field options, so I just thought I'd see what came out. Lo and behold, this wasn't changed from my previous experiences, and the frame came out with blended fields.

This scared, me, until I decided to Export->Movie. This time, I set 720x480 PA 1.2 and rendered out a Windows Bitmap sequence. Importing it into After Effects for a closer look, and hurrah! It was interlaced! Clearly Cineform had worked their magic once again! In order to check the field order, I made a 59.94 fps composition and set AE to deinterlace. The frames were upper-field first. I noted however, the bitmap sequence rendering options in premiere, the "Keyframe and Rendering" menu was disabled, and greyed to "Lower Field First". How odd that the output file was Upper.

I now went to try this out with video, duplicating the Bitmap Sequence procedure, but this time selecting a Microsoft AVI wrapper and rendering an uncompressed 4:4:4 movie file. This time I had field options... So I changed them and rendered two files: one "Lower Field First" and the other out "Upper Field First". Again importing into AE I noted that the "Lower" file was in fact Upper, while the "Upper" was Lower.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or not - and I firmly believe anyone looking to compress stuff or render things should do these kinds of tests on their own. I'd appreciate it if someone else could test this out and confirm it. At any rate:

THE GOOD NEWS:
Cineform has now implemented a scaler in AspectHD/Premiere that handles HDV fields properly, and is capable of exporting 4:4:4 uncompressed SD from HDV source material painlessly... and it can flip the fields if you so choose. This is the first time I've been able to do this in one step. Awesome.

-Steve

David,

I sent a trouble ticket into Cineform today after I exported an HDV project to DVD, which your team was very quick to respond. Thank you.

Basically, it's works great until you do any kind of transition on the timeline. During the transition, the field dominance is reversed and, unfortunately, makes the process described here useless unless you render the entire thing out to a Cineform AVI, then export the new AVI again.

Normally this isn't a big deal but with something longer than about 15 minutes it takes a lot of time. Hopefully we will see a bug fix soon.

I'm also wondering about the status of fixing the bug with the Z1U that prevents AspectHD and Premiere from batch capturing if the timecode begins with anything other than 00:00:00:00. I've had a lot of contact with your tech support since NAB, they've admitted it's a bug but I've never heard anything back. This bug has made it very difficult to use one of the Z1's extra features: pre-settable timecode.

Thanks for any updates you can give.....

Stacy

It seems there is a bug in the Adobe Media Encoder which we have had some trouble working around. Now that I know the bug exists will do a minor patch to Aspect (hopefully tomorrow) so the upper/lower selection in export movie is the correct way around. Sadly, this Adobe Media Encoder bug will require an Adobe fix. I have reported this to Adobe; hopefully they can offer a technical workaround so we can implement it. Looking into the workflow issue now.

The Z1's non-00:00 start time is technically not a bug; it is a feature that hasn't been implemented. Sony camera doesn't support seeking to a timecode -- it only supports seeking to a track number, so new code has to be developed to account for the missing camera control (AV/C control.) We have a future upgrade planned for this, but in the meantime start your tapes at zero.

Thanks, David.

There is a new Aspect HD 3.2 build now available - Aspect HD v3.2a. The only change effects SD exports directly from an HD timeline within Premiere Pro. If exporting to SD is important to your workflow we recommend you download the new version.

In this v3.2a release, we have fixed the field reversal issue Steve White
discovered when using Export Movie; thank you Steve for finding this so
quickly. The Export Movie feature is now fully working for any field
dominance, both progressive and de-interlaced outputs.

However, there is known bug within Premiere we ran across while doing this
work: when using the Adobe Media Encoder (AME), it does NOT fully work for
interlaced outputs that require a down conversion. This bug does not affect
progressive timelines like 720p30 and 1080p24/25/30 (CineFrame modes). For
interlaced timelines the AME gets the field order incorrect during
transitions. This is not an Aspect bug (same errors can be observed using
VFW modes), although we have spent many hours trying to work around it. So for interlaced timelines that require down scaling, there are a couple
workarounds:

1) use the de-interlace option within the AME. This will allow a high
quality progressive DVD or WM9 outputs, or

2) export to a CineForm AVI at your target resolution using "Export
Movie", then run the new file through the AME or directly in Encore DVD.
This will enable you to create high-quality interlaced DVDs or other export
formats.

We have discussed the bug with Adobe and we will be exploring a fix for
interlaced HD to SD exports in future Adobe updates.

Thanks for the update!

1) use the de-interlace option within the AME. This will allow a high
quality progressive DVD or WM9 outputs, or

I'm curious - is there any literature or tests out there on the quality of this de-interlacing algorithm? I assume a lot of people leave it unchecked, and I've seen a lot of HDV-> 720p30 wmv files on the web that would benefit from its use. It's a little hard to do objective comparisons after something's been de-interlaced, down-rezzed and compressed.

I'll be rendering a friend's wedding to DVD within the next week or so, and want to throw a WM9 version on the ROM portion of the disk and retain as much quality as possible. Thankfully, the new Aspect release will make the SD DVD rendering much easier... but after compressing to an anamorphic 1440x1080i WMV file (12 minute video, 6 hours compressing) I noticed that media player didn't exactly handle the interlace well (i.e., it was supposed to be interlaced, but played it back at 30p - I think).

-Steve

David,

Can you make some recommendations for MPEG DVD preset settings, considering the Adobe ones you mentioned weren't very good? A good start would be high and low quality recommendations or general rules of thumb for short (0-15min), medium (15min-1hr), and long (1-2hr) video clips.

And if we haven't taken too much of your time already, our music composer (who is 1000miles away) works on a G5 and requires that we send Quicktime video. We just installed QT7Pro, and our initial run with the Sorensen3 encoder resulted in terrible quality. Do have any recommendations for encoding AHD to FTP-able Quicktime files using Sorensen and H.264?

Thanks,

Will

For DVD settings I nothing run at 8Mbit/s for anything less than 1hour. Longer projects may require a reduced bit-rate for a single layer DVD. CBR is fine for the high bit-rates (speeds up encoding.) Use VBR for lower bit-rates (don't go below 5Mb/s if you can help it.)

For QT settings maybe others can comment, I don't have much experience with exchanging video data with Macs.

David,

First experience with direct export from PPro with AHD 3.1 to DVD; problem as follows.

I exported from PPro's timeline to MPEG-2 DVD file using Adobe's NTSC DV 16:9 setting, and the video came out squished vertically. When viewed, it's like 1.8 Academy instead of 16:9. There's horizontal black bars on top and bottom, and the video itself is looks stretched horizontally.

Do I have to choose 4:3 DVD output instead, or what's the correct setting?

Thanks.

Firstly you should upgrade to Aspect HD 3.2 when you can as that improves DVD output quality. Unfortunately it doesn't fix all the bugs in the Adobe Media Encoder (AME) -- for those we need Adobe to do a new release. The best way to work around the AME bugs is use "export movie" to create a DVD sized 720x480 (16x9) CineForm HD AVI file. Then use that file to convert to MPEG2 via the AME. Using this technique all the scale and field ordering is handled (correctly) by the CineForm components, so all the AME needs to is MPEG encoding. Creating your own presets will also help (just in case there is something wrong with the preset you used.)

create a DVD sized 720x480 (16x9) CineForm HD AVI file.

I only see a greyed-out "1440x1080 v 16:9" frame size on PPro Movie Export for Cineform HD 1.2.

How do you change the frame size to 720x480?

In the File menu select "Export Movie" then click on settings and change the "File Type" to "CineForm HD Export". In that mode you can set the output to 720x480 and 16:9.

David I tried those settings and it will not export it as widescreen, even though I mad that choice, it still ends up with a file that is 0.9 aspect, the settings are there, but won't produce the file. I am using cineform, not HDV cineform (adobe one)


Mike

same thing on another system, just to make sure, same problem. I have an HDV project,export movie,settings,file type=Cineform HD export, go to video, Cineform HD codec, 720x480 (says 16:9 aspect), 29.97, pixel aspect ratio is D1/DV widescreen (1.2), keyframe progressive or lower (both yield the same results, gives me a 0.9 aspect ratio. Hope this was clear.


Mike

Where do you see 0.9 aspect ratio? Are you saying it letterboxes? Or the way the 720x480 plays back on your desktop? I know this works as I just did it on a personal project a few days ago and made a very nice anamorphic DVD.

Hi David, If I look at the files properties in premiere, it says 0.9 and it visually is not correct, now if I export using microsoft dv avi, widescreen, it appears fine, no matter what setting (even using adobe HDV, or microsft avi with Cineform 2.0 codec, they all , except when I use microsoft dv avi, come out with 0.9 aspect, I verified this on 2 systems, maybe you could try a 3 second work area export real quick to see?


Mike

Right click on the 720x480 clip and select "Interpret Footage..." to select 16x9 -- sorry I forgot to tell you that step. I will look into why SD is assumed to be 4x3.

Hi David, here is another observation I noticed. When I export to SD and check the properties of the file it says 8bit 4:2:2 (exporting as you stated) isn't it supposed to be 4:4:4?, anyway, if I export using microsoft avi and cineform HD 2.0, choosing millions+, I end up with a 10bit 4:2:2 file, if I take the two identical tracks (different compressors), stack them on top of eachother in a Premiere timeline, click the "eyeball" to switch back and forth between the clips, there is a considerable detail difference between the two, with the 10bit clip looking noticeably better (more shadow detail), so from that observation, that would seem to be the best export at this time (cineform HD 2.0), I also did an uncompressed version (microsoft avi) the aspect ratio is fine that route. I took both the uncompressed and the cineform HD 2.0 compressed clip and checked them on the timeline and they looked identical, both good quality (of course your compressor made the file 1/10 the size. Hope this helps.

Mike

David probably can't say it but the Adobe Media Encoder that comes with Ppro is a lightweight and gives you very few options. In this case it cannot take the fields as they are handed off during transitions. Even without that problem the variables for making Dvds that you can access are too limited. I have tried tried a couple exports from a CFHD timeline to Procoder 2 and I am not seeing any change in field dominance problems during transitions. Canopus offers Procoder Express which also plugs into Ppro and costs 60 bucks....as far as DVD making is concerned the only difference between the full version and express is you do not have master quality....it still does 2 pass and you can play all you want with the bitrates and if you like AME you will be amazed at what you are missing and can get for 60 bucks. The render engine in Express is the same as the full version....you may want to consider this option. The only question I have is whether 4:4:4 is being handed off from the TL to Procoder...the quality is great that I can see and I am looking at it on an external.

Update to post....I have played with the AME some more and I can find places where it must see CFHD as lower at the first of a clip(shaky playback of mpeg at first) then in the middle of playback it gets it right(upper) and the playback is smooth. I have an mpeg it made that I can change the playback field order and 1/2 plays fine and the other is wrong....when I change it from upper to lower the right and wrong switch.There is a transition a few seconds down the TL from it but the problem is there before the T starts. Get a real encoder is my suggestion

Hi David, does anything check out with my post?

Thanks
Mike

There are a couple of items that need my attention (like the false reporting 10-bit, that is confusing). The shadow detail is not what you think you are seeing. If you switch off Video Systems RGB you will get the same "shadow detail" as the standard export. The problem is the old Video For Window interface can't handle vsRGB so it will boost the black level (make you think you have more detail -- more related to your monitor's response.) Use the CineForm HD Export does have the higher quality for many reasons.

The CineForm HD codec is 4:2:2 not 4:4:4 (yet.) When you do the downscale to SD you do have 4:4:4 precision in image data before compression. As compressed deliverables are 4:2:2 or lower we use 4:2:2 on export.

Hi David, this was not a a computer monitor thing, I output it to the television through firewire and there is a big difference. I clicked back and forth and the details were definately noticeable especially around the eyes of the subject

Mike

It is still for the reason I said. Aspect HD stores a higher dynamic range for video than standard RGB. Standard RGB black or 0,0,0 maps to 16 in Luma (and 0-15 luma are unused.) In most camera source 0-15 (sub-blacks) do contain useful information, yet Adobe typically chops these off. When you have Video Standard RGB switched on we map tradition 0,0,0 black to 16,16,16 (allowing access to sub-black data.) This is of course very cool and a great feature of Aspect HD (unfornately one that is hard for many to understand.) However you aren't using that feature correctly with the way you are doing your export (due to the limitation of the VfW interface.) You would get the same (well better) results with CineForm HD Export and applying a contrast adjustment to bring up the sub-blacks. i.e. a color correction phase. At the moment you are just applying a -15% contrast adjustment to your whole image. You will get even better results is you active control this feature, allowing you to get at quality image data.

Well I am still having trouble capturing since I upgraded to 3.2, but that is another issue...

Could I frameserve from premiere to cce sp mpeg2 encode for example and keep all the colorspace intact? I am using debugmode for frameserving. Debug mode had RGB24 and YUV options.

"cce sp mpeg2" ??

Frameserve to an external encoder. Like to Vegas 6 for instance which does a great conversion to 24p mpeg2 with pulldown in its internal mainconcept encoder.
I do this alot with SD DV work, and I'm just wondering if anybody knows how frameserving works in HDV? I will be testing this soon, but wanted to see if anyone else had tried.

Using frameserve keeps me from have to export a copy of large projects to save space and preserve an extra generation on HDV rendering.

CCE SP is custom technologies mpeg encoder, but it does not work well for me in Prem Pro so I have export to use it.

Hi David, please forgive my ignorance, but I exported both clips with the vsRGB setting on, one was video for windows with the aspect HD 2.0 compressor, the other was Cineform HD export, first was fine the second was dark, I have to go through an extra step with contrast adjustment for the other (Cineform HD export) sorry if I am missing something here. Both are being exported with it on (vsRGB).

Mike

Yes this extremely confusing. The problem is the VfW can't support VSRGB so what you are seeing is a bug. When exporting to VfW Aspect was supposed to turn the VSRGB mode off. The point is you are supposed to get an identical output to what you see on the timeline and when you combine VFRGB and VFW you don't, you just happen to like the look. :) I'm clearly going to have to create a white paper on this. The point is you seeing an enhancement that is not on the timeline, which is bad and will be fixed very shortly -- we want WYSIWYG. You can have the same enhancement through color correction so there is no loss of features.

Thanks David, two questions, how do I make the vsRGB change? and at this point, your saying to export to cineform HD export and adjust contrast, is that after or before the vsRGB change you mentioned that needs to be made. I promise I won't beat this horse any longer after this :)

Thanks
Mike

There is no change you need to make. This bug only applies to work-flow we didn't intend anyone to use (which is the VfW export over the CineForm exporter.) If you wish to use VFW export (like uncompressed) simply turn the "Use Video Systems RGB" off from within the "Playback Setting" window. To see the extra headroom for vsRGB you should color correct using the scopes. As you adjust the control and brighten you will see more detail coming out of the blacks (and whites.) Note: If vsRGB is off no more detail comes out of the extremes. Once you have achieved the look you are after simply export using "CineForm HD Export."

Thanks David!


Mike

The CineForm HD codec is 4:2:2 not 4:4:4 (yet.) When you do the downscale to SD you do have 4:4:4 precision in image data before compression. As compressed deliverables are 4:2:2 or lower we use 4:2:2 on export. David I am confused about the 4:4:4 claim made with the 3.2 release....are you simply referring to the fact that once the Cineform engine hands off 4:2:2 to the Premiere Pro engine that the Premiere Pro engine is internally processing it at 4:4:4 RGB? If so then how is that different than before?

Not making any new claims. The original discussion that brought this up was about creating uncompressed 4:4:4 AVIs for DVD mastering, I was pointing out that was unnessary as the action of the down scale will give you a 4:4:4 chroma density before it goes to it DVD target (which is 4:2:0.) Aspect HD 3.2 doesn't add 4:4:4 on output, and yes it has always used 4:4:4 internal processing. The new feature was superior scaling algorithms that made uncompressed export and After Effects processing redundant for DVD creation.

Thanks, just was a bit confused. If I understand what you are saying is basically true for any app that scales HDV... there is enough chroma info certainly to support 4:2:2 and a tad more than enough to support 4:4:4.
I really think this is why many are geting great results using software downscaled HDV to make SD DVDs.