I dont have time to go thru every potential setting (maybe someday soon) but in general, I find that most people that are unhappy or underwhelmed with the XL2 picture can cure their perception with a couple setting tweaks.

In general the XL2 provides EXCELLENT detail in both shadows and highlights, moreso than any other SD 1/3" CCD cam. However, most people are not used to this and to their eye, this image can look flat or milky. If you are one of those people, I suggest you play with the following setting combos...

Knee - HIGH, this will emphasize highlights (you WILL lose detail)

Setup Level - turn it down anywhere from -3 to - 6 (this will darken the picture, essentially crushing the blacks, you WILL lose detail in the shadows)

Master Pedestal - turn it down -3 to -6, (this will darken the shadows even more)

If you are trying to match the XL1s, you might also want to turn down the coring and sharpness a notch or 2 and bump the Color Gain a notch or 2.

I will post my "blue sky" look settings in the next day or two... to all of you who keep your settings a secret, shame on you. Knowledge belongs to people, it is to share. Just because Eddie Van Halen lets his guitar tabs out doesnt mean everyone can play it like him =o)




ash =o)

Thanks for the tips Ash! Please post the other settings to this thread as well.

Do you guys really think people are keeping their settings a secret? I know I tweak mine here and there but have never thought of it as being secretive. increase the color gain 1 or 2......cinegamma, cine-colors and knee low and blacks set to middle.

If I stumbled onto anything great I'd surely share it. As it is I do most "looks" in post using COlor curves and saturation boost.

Has anyone noticed the color gain seems odd? It does not work at all like saturation in your editing software. If I have a guy outside with a green shirt and blue jeans and boost the color gain the skin tones stay flat and the green shirt and blue jeans go all "neon" looking. Very fake and a lot like colorized black and white movies.

The same shot in PRemiere PRo or Vegas and I just increase the saturation from 100 to 130 and the skin tones turn nice and greens start to look real good. If I could make some settings in the XL2 do that in camera I would.

Funny thing is with the XL2 at neutral and a DVX at neutral I find that I have to increase saturation from 100 to 130 on the XL2 and from 100 down to 60-70 on the DVX to get about the same color levels. Weird. The good thing is that the XL2 doesn't bloom or go all freaky if you have some hot reds where the DVX does. On the other hand the XL2 has a fast fall off for colors when the light starts to drop a little and the DVX still gives brilliant colors at these levels.

There is always a tradeoff!

There are many people who have refused to post their settings, silly, I know. When you stay in the cine color world it will generally NOT effect skin tones, the XL2 has seperate settings for that, a really great tool. If your image looks colorized, you might want to turn down the MP and Setup level.

If you want the saturation to act more like your NLE, then shoot in NORMAL mode, not cine mode. As far as the DVX, it has great poppy colors BUT they are not broadcast legal and can be problematic, especially the reds. The DVX also does not have near the detail as the XL2 in shadows and highlights.


ash =o)

Here is a setting good for a saturated, crushed black look...



Gain: -3dB

WB: warm (wb to gray)

Gamma: Cine
Knee: High
Black: Press

Color Matrix: Cine
Color Gain: +3
Color Phase: +2

R Gain: +2
G Gain: 0
B Gain: +3

V Detail: normal (low if in 30P)
Sharpness: +3
Coring: 0

Setup Level: -6
Master Ped: -6
NR: off

Nowadays almost all TV stations broadcast an oversaturated picture, guess for the public like rich colors. Accordingly, many assume camcorders, such as the XL2 or DVX should produce vivid colors or otherwise some start to suspect there is something wrong. Such a tendency puts the engineers designing camcorders in a difficult position for they have to balance with the marketing needs.

Thinking in terms of technical quality, I think what matters in production is that there is as much latency as possible in the signal recorded on tape, for this enables one to maximally adjust the image in postproduction. For example, if the dark or bright end has hardly any tones, it is very difficult to create them in postproduction. The other way around in postprod the amount of black can be increased as much as one wants at will. Consequently, saturation can be easily increased etc.

The dynamics of the DV video signal is rather narrow; there is less than 256 tones of the reds, greens, and blues available. If this dynamics is not properly employed when storing the footage on tape, it's difficult to compensate afterwards.

The nice thing about XL2 --in my view-- is that it yields many tools to adjust the image when shooting. For instance, if there is high contrast, setting black to stretch and knee to low does help avoiding completely black and overexposured parts in the image. Evidently, when I'm shooting white swans on white snow or a brown hawk in a dark forest I need different kinds of settings.

When comparing the images of XL2 and XL1, in my eyes the difference is indeed less saturation in colors and more tones in the dark end. But I've found this an advantage, for I get less footages to which I can do nothing in edit. Looking backwards I nowadays also feel the dark end of XL1 is too black.

So, for me there is no one settings of the XL2 which I found the right one. Instead, there seem to be a need for most of the adjustments depending on the situation, and I tend to change the settings on fly all the time.

There are many people who have refused to post their settings, silly, I know. When you stay in the cine color world it will generally NOT effect skin tones, the XL2 has seperate settings for that, a really great tool. If your image looks colorized, you might want to turn down the MP and Setup level.

If you want the saturation to act more like your NLE, then shoot in NORMAL mode, not cine mode. As far as the DVX, it has great poppy colors BUT they are not broadcast legal and can be problematic, especially the reds. The DVX also does not have near the detail as the XL2 in shadows and highlights.



Ash,
How about a little more detail on what tool ( I assume skin tones detail) to get better skin tones (people tend to look washed out...I want to bring more color to them). And how do you figure the MP and setup are affecting the overall saturation? Also......how do you figure that shooting in normal vs. cine will get a look like my non-linear editor? The truth is I use the editor to get a better Cine look. I can very easily get a DVX style gamma curve that is much more pleasing to the eyes.

I am not being sarcastic. I really want to here the logic behind your statements. Because I have not been able to get anything that I really like colorwise direct from the camera. I have to tweak in post. If you can enlighten me or others and how you feel these settings affect image it would be appreciated greatly.

Post a grab of what you want it to look like and I will tell you the settings. Skin tones on the XL2 are superior because of the detail. Have you tried the skin detail settings? Once you lock it in you can choose the level of detail, low gives you a great soft look, while high emphasizes wrinkles, wiskers, etc. If people are looking washed out, you may be overexposing or what you may be seeing is increased detail due to a low knee/stretched black setting. Try pressing the blacks and turning down the Master Pedestal and/or setup level.

Master Pedestal and Setup level effect perceived saturation because they bring out detail in the default settings, more saturation in DV world = less detail. If you have a highlight or shadow that retains the detail information, that can look flat to some people.

When you start to adjust saturation in camera, the cine curve is not as effected as the normal DV video curve, at least for most colors in my experience.

The DVX, as noted has a more saturated and crushed look in camera, this is at the expense of loss of detail. If you want to match that in camera with an XL2, you can get very close.

My biggest tip for the XL2 users who are after more of the DVX look is to use a warm white balance and adjust not just the gamma curve, color matrix and color gain. The real key to more poppy video is adjusting the knee higher, the master pedestal lower, pressing the blacks and lowering the set-up level. You might also want to reduce the sharpness.

As stated by Lauri, each situation is different and should be set up accordingling. In general, I find it best to get the most detailed image that I can then tweak in post. The low knee, stretched black setting is the best for that, the DVX cannot come close to achieving that image quality with any setting.


ash =o)

Should I up the saturation in camera or during post? Which will give me better quality colors while retaining as much detail as possible?

The XL2 records the color information, you can bump it in post easy. If you record it saturated in camera, you will lose detail if you try to desaturate a bit...



ash =o)

How are you using a "warm" white balance? Are you using warm cards? If so, which ones?

Thanks!

Matt

Warm is pretty easy... if you are inside, the easy way is to choose the outside preset, this can be TOO warm sometimes. Find something grey ot light blue and balance to it, you can use cards but I usually just play around until I am happy. I will post some more settings in a minute...



ash =o)

Matt, Where ya been? Look here (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=46082) at what your "Matt Cherry's Most Excellent Setup Card" has grown into.

How about posting a setup? I know you've documented a few! ; ) Thanks

What have you guys been doing????

Incredible....

I've been busy with work and traveling and having my heart put into a blender... But I'm back!!

Matty

More settings....

In a narrow DOF environment or ANY time you are having issue with focus, try this setting. I use this JUST for getting focus, then I got back to another preset for shooting.


Gamma: Normal
Knee: Low
Black: Stretch

Color Matrix: Normal
Color Gain: -6
Color Phase: 0

R Gain: 0
G Gain: 0
B Gain: 0

V Detail: normal
Sharpness: +3
Coring: +3

Setup Level: 0
Master Ped: 0
NR: off


Here is one for a grainy, contrasty B&W look. Best in 24P, use the aperture and/or ND filter to control the light as the gain setting will make the picture hot.


Here is a setting good for a grainy B&W contrasty look:

Gain: +18dB

Frame rate: 24P

Gamma: Normal
Knee: High
Black: Press

Color Matrix: Normal
Color Gain: -6
Color Phase: 0

R Gain: 0
G Gain: 0
B Gain: 0

V Detail: normal
Sharpness: -6
Coring: -6

Setup Level: -6
Master Ped: -6
NR: off

Hey Ash, have you seen the Mel Gibson movie "Payback"? I'd be interested in seeing what you would do for that look.

Post a grab and I will see if I can get close...




ash =o)

Ash, around here you have become the Master of custom presets.

Here is a setting good for a grainy B&W contrasty look:

Gain: +18dB

Frame rate: 24POops, actually the XL2 is limited to +12db in 24P and 30P frame rates. See the bottom of page 61 in the operator's manual. Great setting, though! Thanks for sharing it,

Yeah, sorry, in 24P mode it will flash +18dB and then switch to +12db



ash =o)

I am sometime reminded that "NTSC" is short for Never The Same Color twice;)

Could someone please post the settings for this? I use a Mac and am unable to download it.

TIA

Hi Javier,

Although you can't use the software, you can still download the preset file and open it with any old text editor (it is possible to open a .txt file on a Mac, isn't it)? If you can open it with a text editor, the conventional settings are in there and properly identified and you should be able to read them.

Thank you Chris, got it.

Anyone have an idea why I can't get the Bluebarn presets to load into my XL2? I have installed the program and have the presets on my computer. I plug in my camera and turn the controls to the Ext Control position. Once plugged in I get the usual "found AV/C device." I've tried both letting it go to the Internet and not allowed it to go to the Internet. Once I open the program and try to go to Preset 1, or 2 or three, the program hangs for a couple of seconds and then comes back with an error message and then completely crashes and closes. I've tried this on three XP computers...same results. I normally capture all my video through a Sony deck, not the camera and this is the first time I've plugged the camera into the computer. Could it have something to do with the necessary drivers for the camera? If so, what am I missing?
Thanks,
Dave M.

Does the Presets manager work on a PAL XL2 or is it only for the NTSC version?

David

It's O.K. I got it working.

David

David how did you get it working because I have the same crashing problem? Im using the PAL version of the XL2

Steven,
I'm not sure which David your question was directed at, but I'll field you question. I got it working after realized I wasn't allowing the driver for the Blue Barn presets to install on the XL2. After I allowed them to install, it worked as advertised.
Dave Merrell

Thank you all, presets and Bluebarn software are working fine...

Hello all.. this is my first post.

I have recently bought the canon xl2 and great acc.. I have been using the preset manager (really cool) and I have got these presets

Amelie.bbp (347 Bytes, 491 views)
ContrastB&W.bbp (357 Bytes, 388 views)
Documentary.bbp (344 Bytes, 437 views)
FocusAssist.bbp (350 Bytes, 376 views)
Routine.bbp (316 Bytes, 386 views)
Saturated.bbp (320 Bytes, 386 views)
Sports.bbp (323 Bytes, 394 views)
Technicolor.bbp (304 Bytes, 413 views)
Wedding.bbp (258 Bytes, 424 views)

My question is... Where can you get some more???? I have been searching but no luck... any help would be apreciated..
Also any one had any problems perfectly balancing the xl2 on the glidecam 4000??? grrrrrrrr

I also have the same question as Travis. Where can I find, or download more custom presets? I think it's great I'm able to this, and would just like to be able to find more.

Thanks,
D.C. Joseph.

Doug and Travis,

Hey, guys, we're all waiting for you to invent and post more presets! ;-)

(The ones you listed are the only ones I'm aware of that have been posted).

Hey, man, I'm workin' on it; been experimenting everyday for the most part. It won't be long...

In terms of the black and white presets...I'm using 30 instead of 24 and wonder if there would be any change in your settings Ash because of this.

Lucinda

No change... if you want the grain effect you can boost the gain more in 30P mode. You may also want to adjust the coring if the noise is too digital looking... you can even get it on the + side to smooth it out more.


ash =o)

Hey folks,

I'm a Mac user so I've been picking apart the posted presets and have a quick question. For settings which have clearly defined ranges, such as Coring (-6 to +6), the settings are obvious. However, for settings such as Gamma, does 1=Normal or Cine? Below are the ones I'm having trouble decoding;

Gamma (Video/Cine)
Knee (H/M/L)
Black (Stretch/Normal/Press)
Vertical Detail (Normal/Low)
Noise Reduction (OFF/H/N/L)

Thanks for any help.

Kevin

Any mac version of software for settings upload yet??

I have just downloaded all the presets except for 'Amelie" and 'Saturated'. For some reason, when I try to download these 2 it takes me to the Log-in screen instead. Anyone else experiencing this? I'm on a Mac.

This forum has been a wonderful source of information for me, but this is my first post. I just recently purchased an XL2, and was wondering if anyone could recommend a preset to optimize video for a fireworks display?

There is very little information about this subject to be found online, other than a general consensus that fireworks "present quite a challenge" to even the most experienced videographer.

I have been doing these videos for quite some time (I work for a large fireworks chain) but never with an XL2. My other camera is the GL2, and it does an "adequate" job, but I was certain the XL2 could out preform it. So far, I haven't managed to figure out the best settings.

The problem with fireworks video is the ultra high contrast and the thousands of tiny points of bright fast moving light against a black sky. Most video cameras will over expose the bright light, losing most (if not all) of the color and fine detail in the display. Another problem is that it's very difficult to get a good focus on fireworks, as you have no steady image to focus on while there is a burst in the air (and of course just black sky at all other times). The tiny LCD/EVF in the XL2 certainly doesn't help with this.

What I need is a preset that will retain most of the color while goiveing me razor sharp clarity and brightness.

With regard to the focus issue, has anyone tried plugging in an external battery powered LCD monitor (maybe a portable DVD player) to use as a more econmical field monitor?

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide.

-jb-

This forum has been a wonderful source of information for me, but this is my first post. I just recently purchased an XL2, and was wondering if anyone could recommend a preset to optimize video for a fireworks display?

There is very little information about this subject to be found online, other than a general consensus that fireworks "present quite a challenge" to even the most experienced videographer.

I have been doing these videos for quite some time (I work for a large fireworks chain) but never with an XL2. My other camera is the GL2, and it does an "adequate" job, but I was certain the XL2 could out preform it. So far, I haven't managed to figure out the best settings.

The problem with fireworks video is the ultra high contrast and the thousands of tiny points of bright fast moving light against a black sky. Most video cameras will over expose the bright light, losing most (if not all) of the color and fine detail in the display. Another problem is that it's very difficult to get a good focus on fireworks, as you have no steady image to focus on while there is a burst in the air (and of course just black sky at all other times). The tiny LCD/EVF in the XL2 certainly doesn't help with this.

What I need is a preset that will retain most of the color while goiveing me razor sharp clarity and brightness.

With regard to the focus issue, has anyone tried plugging in an external battery powered LCD monitor (maybe a portable DVD player) to use as a more econmical field monitor?

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can provide.

-jb-

I have shot some fireworks. I typically stay full wide and focus to infinity. You are correct about the contrast ratio and you have to pick proper exposure for the fireworks and let the rest of the sky be black. This is one instance where you don't reallly care about exposure latitude as long as the lights of the fireworks are properly exposed. If you are able, get them to send up one item before the show to let you get a focus lock if you choose to go that route. Keep your iris stopped down as far as you can which will help deepen depth of field and relieve some of the focus work.

-gb-

I have shot some fireworks. I typically stay full wide and focus to infinity. You are correct about the contrast ratio and you have to pick proper exposure for the fireworks and let the rest of the sky be black. This is one instance where you don't reallly care about exposure latitude as long as the lights of the fireworks are properly exposed. If you are able, get them to send up one item before the show to let you get a focus lock if you choose to go that route. Keep your iris stopped down as far as you can which will help deepen depth of field and relieve some of the focus work.

-gb-

Thanks for the tips, Greg. One problem I was having on the focus is that I had the iris wide open. I didn't think about the shallow DOF this created.

Now I hope this isn't a horribly stupid question, but when you say "focus lock", is this just an expression, or is there a way that I'm not aware of to actually set the focus and "lock it" on the XL2?

Here's another stupid question: Regarding focusing on "infinity", I typically look for anything I can set focus on (any distant illuminated object), zoom all the way in (20x) get a sharp focus on that, then zoom all they way back out again. Is there a better way?

Thanks again...jb

Thanks for the tips, Greg. One problem I was having on the focus is that I had the iris wide open. I didn't think about the shallow DOF this created.

Now I hope this isn't a horribly stupid question, but when you say "focus lock", is this just an expression, or is there a way that I'm not aware of to actually set the focus and "lock it" on the XL2?

Here's another stupid question: Regarding focusing on "infinity", I typically look for anything I can set focus on (any distant illuminated object), zoom all the way in (20x) get a sharp focus on that, then zoom all they way back out again. Is there a better way?

Thanks again...jb

Focus lock was actually a figure of speech. If you are not in auto-focus mode, you actually lock the focus as soon as you stop manually focusing. (grin)

Another thing I did was slip a wide angle adapter on the lens to get more real estate in the shot and to help with DOF. Keep the iris closed and slow down the shutter speed to compensate. Remember, the lights you are taping are pretty intense so it's not as big a problem to achieve good exposure as you might think.

I will try to find some time to upload a clip for you to look at. The fireworks are not commercial, just the most powerful stuff we mere mortals can get our hands on.

-gb-

p.s. which chain do you work for?

Here are some things to try...

Gain: -3db
Knee: LOW
Blacks: PRESS
SetUp Level: down 3 notches
Master Pedestal: down 3-5 notches


As far as color, I would use normal video gamma, not cinegamma and cheat it toward red on the color phase a notch or two. Might want to boost the color gain a notch or two as well. Also, try out some high and low shutters, those can have a nice effect, either causing the lights to flare crisply (high shutter) ot trail off (low shutter). If you do low shutter, make sure you are locked down on a tripod.


ash =o)

OK... So here's the preset that Ash recommended for shooting fireworks video. Please let me know if I have failed to translate these correctly:

[Presets]
Preset Name = FIREWORK
Gamma = 0
Knee = 2
Black = 2
NR = 0
VDetail = 0
Color Matrix = 0
Color Gain = 2
Color Phase = 2
Red = 0
Green = 0
Blue = 0
SetupLevel = -3
Sharpness = 0
Coring = 0
MasterPed = -4
Description = (Ash Greyson) Recommended settings for shooting fireworks video

Thanks for the help!
jb

Does anybody know what settings to use on the XL2 to recreate the look of 8mm film? I want to try and get the same kind of look that is used in the PBS TV show Globetrekker. They use this look for cutaways. Any pointers? Do I need to do it in post? I use FCE so any settings I need for post would need to be available in that.

TIA

Colin

For anyone interested, here are my most used settings for wildlife outdoor/nature type work:

'Globetrotter' XL2 settings:

Gamma - Cine
Knee - Middle
Black - Press
Color Matrix - Cine
Color Gain +3
Color phase 0
R Gain +2
G Gain - Middle
B Gain - Middle
Sharpen +2
Coring - Middle
Set up Level - middle
Master Ped -middle
NR - Off

Last week I shot my first project with my new XL2 (after using XL1 for 6 years): a holy communion. I used the standard setting and notice that the picture is indeed a bit flat. Next weekend I have to shoot another one and I am not confident enough to play with the custom settings. Shall I use the "wedding" preset? Or can I just change only a few settings?

Post a grab on the look you want and I will post the pre-set to get that look... The main things that make the picture milky are the setup level and master pedestal, try turning those down a bit.


ash =o)

ash what is the best way to post a grab on this forum. Can we just paste it in a post or do we have to link it??

Ash:

Do you have a good custom preset when shooting in 30P at night or in very low light? My main interest is as little to no noise as possible in the blacks (dark areas).

Would love to see your settings. Thanks!