Hi, I have a customer who signed the contract 3 days ago with a $200 deposit. Today, she just called me to cancell it. It states in my contract that the deposit is not refundable, do I have to honor my contract or just go ahead refund her money back?

Jun

I wouldn't refund the money unless there is a death in the family. That deposit is to lock down your service and you won't accept other inquiry on the same day.

btw, I charged $800 deposit. =)

Thanks. That's what I thought. I e-mailed my customer and will wait for her reply.

Jun

If it was only 3 days ago and, probably, you did not refuse any other offers for that date, I would refund the deposit. It's just me though...

Anyway, I'd ask for the reason nevertheless...

It is of course totally up to your discretion.

I came across the same situation when I first started in the business. I asked a wedding planner how would she handle it. She told me the same thing, except one time the groom died. She returned the deposit. I asked how would she know if the groom really died or it's a lie. She assured it is real as she attended the funeral.

If it was only 3 days ago and, probably, you did not refuse any other offers for that date, I would refund the deposit. It's just me though...

Anyway, I'd ask for the reason nevertheless...

I agree. Find out the reason, if she hints of a better deal or a different videographer, etc, then keep the money however if the whole wedding is cancelled, then perhaps try to get a sale out of her and tell her that whenever her wedding is back on, she can use this as the deposit if she decides to book you and you are available on the date. At the end as Taky said, it is at your discretion.

Let us know what happens.

Hi Jun

Some countries have an automatic "cooling off period" Here it's 30 days. If it's only $200 then check it such a proviso is enforced in the USA.
You also have to think about bad publicity if the client "bad mouths" you. It's really a small amount of money we are talking about so refunding it may get you more points than refusing!!

As long as the bride has a valid reason then I would do a refund rather than get into an arguement!!

Chris

in the USA the 'cooling off" period only applies to sales made in the home by a solicitor, IE; encyclopedias (for those to young-the info from the internet used to be in these books that had all the sutff you wanted to know in alphabetical order and people really had these books at home) aluminum siding, carpet, etc etc. IOW, if the person in the house bought something that was unsolicited there would be a 3 day cooling off period.
I work from home and almost all sales are made from my home-but there is no cooling off period.
As for the OP s question of returning the deposit (retainer), I would ask the bride why she cancelled and then make a decision based on that but honestly, 3 days? The check hasn't even cleared the bank yet so...it just sounds "off". Ask her why before doing anything.

3 days? Return it. $200 isn't going to make or break you. Unless you truly lost money by telling another potential client you were booked.

She'll never say "Jun is so great for returning my money, I'd recommend him". What you will get is her not telling her friends of about how she lost money booking with you.

in NJ, there is a 3 day cooling off period for contracts .. not sure if same applies in WA

A "customer" who changes her mind like that isn't one you want anyway (imagine the bridezilla when under full stress) - unless this was a short term booking and you lost another job because of it, return the money once it's cleared (make sure it's not being "kited", i.e. bad check), back away slowly and forget about it. Book another job if you can, hopefully it's a far enough out date that you can just find a GOOD customer.

Stuff happens, the "economy" is a wreck, she may have a "good" reason or none at all, and it's certainly an inconvenience for you, but better to be done and move on, IMO.

Jun, I haven't heard of anything here in WA about a cooling off period for this type of scenario. I with everyone in asking why... if the wedding is off, then I personally would be a sport and either refund it or rip up the check if you haven't cashed it yet. If she found someone else, well, easiest $200 you ever made =)

Hi, I have a customer who signed the contract 3 days ago with a $200 deposit. Today, she just called me to cancell it. It states in my contract that the deposit is not refundable, do I have to honor my contract or just go ahead refund her money back?

Jun

My first thought is that it seems like your deposit amount is too low. It's just too easy to walk away from $200. I'd consider increasing it to $500 or more, depending on your package pricing.

As for whether or not to return the deposit (which by the way, you should call a 'retainer' for legal reasons), I would say 'no'. I would let the bride know that retainers are non-refundable per the contract, but also let her know that you will apply the retainer forward when she decides to re-book.

I know it's hard to enforce your policy since it has only been 3 days, but if you start returning retainers then there is no point in having a retainer in the first place. People need to understand that if they sign and contract and put money down, it is binding. They can't just change their mind later.

Since it's only been 3 days and you probably haven't lost any other clients over it, I would say return it all, but wait!! Think about all the time you spend obtaining this client. (emails, phone calls, contract, driving, meeting w client) Add all those up and if it's under an hour take half and give the other half back. If it's more than take $150 or more.

She knows how a contract works. Is she asking or demanding it back? Most clients will ask JUST TO SEE WHAT THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH! She is probably afraid of you and that you won't give it back.

So I would go from there. If you keep any of it explain why to them.

I take 50% down and 50% due on the wedding. I've never had a issues with deposit or payment. If a client is going to give me $1000 down payment, I bet the are going to make extra sure they are willing to sign a contract. Asking for only $200 then you will attract the flakes or what I call Flies.

Good luck.

I have e-mailed the customer and never got a response yet. The reason they cancell is the husband don't want it anymore, but I guess they found a new one or a better deal. They didn't say that the wedding was cancelled. They even send me an invitation already. It also states that the $200 deposit is transferrable as stated in my contract, so if they have a relative that needs my service, they can use it. Thanks all.

Jun

If contract states, deposits are non refundable, they are non refundable. Unless it's a death in family which she should prove, my guess is that the reason is simply she found someone with a better price. Otherwise 3 days are too short for something to happen unless a death.

Plus if you do it for this person, you will get one more person in few months doing exact same thing. Don't be scared to turn her down. There is nothing she can do other than say few things.

Hope this helps

$200 worth the amount of bad press it is going to buy you? that amount is so negligible I'd
give it back. a couple years back, i had a bride who booked me for photo. Fiance up and split
town! her deposit was $800. Her mom hounded me for it back, I said no, because I actually
did turn down 2 other brides for her date. the girl got married, she hired another photog.
I just wonder if all the other vendors gave her back her deposits? find out why your bride is cancelling,
but for $200, return it.

I'm with Travis. She signed a contract and agreed to the terms. She understands that the deposit is non-refundable.

And now people tell you to refund the $ so you can be the nice guy? What's it gonna hurt?

Is it worth the 'bad mouthing' that you follow thru on the agreed terms?

What it would hurt is YOUR POLICY. Either the terms of the contract mean something or they don't.

Are you really trying to sell brides on the terms of the contract?

You: 'And although the deposit is non-refundable, if you change your mind in a couple days I'll refund it anyways!'
Bride: 'Great! I'll sign with you!'

That's like saying although they book you for 5 hours... what's it gonna hurt to stay an extra hour or two at no charge?

What you will get is her not telling her friends of about how she lost money booking with you.

I disagree. She didn't lose money. She booked someone's services... paid a deposit and then chose to cancel. That's not losing money. That's declining a service after paying for it and that's part of doing business.

I'm with Travis. She signed a contract and agreed to the terms. She understands that the deposit is non-refundable...

You: 'And although the deposit is non-refundable, if you change your mind in a couple days I'll refund it anyways!'
Bride: 'Great! I'll sign with you!'

What if there are extenuating circumstances? I agree, if she just changed her mind, then she should be SOL. But perhaps something bad happened... like the groom ran off with a waitress from the Emerald Queen Casino (the OP will get the reference) or died or something. I would get the reason and go from there. If you haven't lost any bookings over this and there truly was some sort of extenuating circumstances like death or the groom suddenly dumped her, that act of kindness in returning your (way too small) deposit might pay off farther down the road. But don't do it just to avoid a bad reputation. Do it to get a good reputation.

Of course, if she just decided to get another videographer then too bad, she shouldn't have signed the contract in the first place.

Let's switch it the other way.

What if you as the videographer had to or chose to cancel after only 3 days? Do you still get to keep her money because your contract says deposits are non-refundable? Do you have to pay her the cost difference between what you charged and what her new videographer charges?

The right thing to do is return her money and not make her give you an acceptable answer for cancelling.

Forcing her to forfeit her deposit or forcing her to use your services could end up being the most costly $200 you ever made. She could very well turn on you and make it difficult to do your job, like pestering you with petty demands, not cooperating with your need for their assistance in getting shots or recording good audio. Then after you deliver what she deems to be inferior results, she can take you to small claims court and sue you for damages. Even if she loses, she'll ruin your day.

You haven't lost anything yet. Give her back the money and move on. It's $200. That's chump change.

Jeff

What if you as the videographer had to or chose to cancel after only 3 days? Do you still get to keep her money because your contract says deposits are non-refundable?

No. That would be breach of contract & even after returning her $200 she still might be able to sue you for it. Doubt she'd go thru that hassle but I'm sure your rep could suffer (Angieslist, referrals etc)

I agree with you that she could become a total bridezilla though & complain constantly just to hassle you for what you did. It's really a judgement call on the OP's part either way. Not sure you're reputation will suffer much either way, I guess it depends on the odds you think she'll say either of the following to friends "I almost used Jun Galinato but didn't. But don't use him cause he didn't return my $200" or "I found someone for cheap/free on Craigslist but they were bad & it sucked. However, I almost used Jun Galinato but didn't. I wish I did, he was cool enough to return my $200 deposit so myb you should try him for yours".

Dave,
Without seeing the contract, it is impossible to say what would constitute breach of contract. If the contract stated there will be no refunds under any circumstances and the customer signs it, wouldn't they be agreeing to those terms?

I doubt it would stand up in court because it seems like an unreasonable condition. The OP is seeking opinions from people who have nothing to gain or lose by taking one position or another. I gave mine.

Should the bride have ever entered into the contract? No. She sounds a bit on the flaky side to me, which sounds to me like even more reason to give back the deposit and wash your hands of what could very well become one headache after another.

Jeff

Without seeing the contract, it is impossible to say what would constitute breach of contract. If the contract stated there will be no refunds under any circumstances and the customer signs it, wouldn't they be agreeing to those terms?

You can't write a contract saying "If I have to cancel I still keep your deposit". That'd be like renting an apartment and asking for the first & last months security deposit, then saying 'Oh, I chose to rent it to my nephew" but trying to keep the deposit.

"No refunds" applies to the customer canceling, not the merchant.

Thank you all. I am still waiting for the customer for her response. Here's a partial copy of the contract:

The Date-Reservation Fee is due with submission of a signed copy of this Agreement.
100% of The Balance is due one month before the event. Please make check payable to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Terms and Conditions:
1. Date-Reservation Fee: Upon signature and submission of the Date-Reservation Fee, PHV will reserve the time and date agreed upon, and will not make other reservations for this time and date. This fee is non-refundable but transferable.

4. It is understood that even if a shot is taken, PHV at its sole discretion may decide not to use the shot in the finished product for aesthetic or other editorial reasons. (Videotaping and photographing outdoors in inclement weather is at the sole discretion of PHV.)

5. PHV will take the utmost care to produce a video and photo of good quality. However, PHV will not be responsible for circumstances beyond its control, including but not limited to power failure, equipment failure or malfunction, and defective tape stock and memory storage. If videotaping/photographing of the entire event is prevented due to such occurrences, there will be no charge and all advance amounts paid will be refunded.

6. PHV is under no obligation to retain copies of the videotape/photograph, in either raw or edited versions. However, as a courtesy, PHV will attempt to retain a master of the final version for one year.

7. PHV reserves the right to use portions of the videotape/photograph for promotional or other reasons. PHV retains all copyrights and reproduction rights for each production, raw footage, original videotapes, photographs, edited masters and all sub-masters of each production, whether in whole or in part.

8. Under any and all circumstances, PHV’s maximum liability is limited to a full refund.

9. The videotape is for the private home use of the Client. Any public showing of any part of the videotape is at the sole responsibility and risk of the Client.

10. PHV is not obligated to perform agreed-upon services if the Client fails to meet the financial terms of this agreement

11. This agreement as written represents the entire agreement between PHV and the client. All changes must be in writing and accepted by both parties to be binding.

Hi, I have a customer who signed the contract 3 days ago with a $200 deposit. Today, she just called me to cancell it. It states in my contract that the deposit is not refundable, do I have to honor my contract or just go ahead refund her money back?

Jun

Jun,
You've gotten comments from some focusing on the legal viewpoint of the issue and some looking at it from a moral viewpoint.

If you want a legal answer to your question, you should consult a lawyer in your area because no one here so far claims to be a lawyer, so what you've gotten is laymen's law, which means nothing legally.

If you are asking for opinion based on the morality viewpoint, you've gotten those too. And, those are just emotional feelings from regular people, again which mean nothing.

It really comes down to what you think is the right thing to do. No one here has to live with you. But you do have to live with yourself. Do what you think is right and pay no real attention to my opinion or anyone else's.

Good luck with it.

Jeff

Thank you for all the good responses. My customer called me today and told me just to not cancell the coverage anymore. I think i'ts just a misunderstanding between the bride and the groom. Actually they already have fully paid me but the full payment was post dated one week before the wedding. Gladly I didn't throw the check. I hope I don't have any problem with this coverage.

Jun

it sounds like a lot of miscommunication between the B&G and yourself, since obviously the information you were given was to cancel but they really didn't. As for the check, this is just me, but I NEVER and I mean NEVER take a post-dated check. My attorney told me as did the managers of 2 bracnhes of 2 of the largest banks left, that writing a post dated check is technically illeagle. Now I am not going to argue whether it is or not but what I do is I have them date the check for the day it is written and put it in an envelope with a deposit date on it and deposit it on that date. Again whethter it is illeagle or not, well, that's what I've been told, who knows but the way I do it should their check bounce, they can't say I depositied before the date written on the check. Just a little thing.
Anyway I'm glad that you got it all straightened out with them and glad you got paid in full.

Technically a post dated check is a check written on non-existent (at the time) funds, thus technically illegal.

That said, I don't think it's unreasonable for a one man outfit to take such an instrument with a friendly understanding as to when the funds WILL be available, and when the check will be OK to deposit. Notice I said a "one man" operation, where there won't be any "accidents" like an early deposit... I used to do it all the time for my customers, never ever had a problem, but there's no mistaking where the buck stops.

Depending on how far in advance you're talking, you should keep in mind that there may be a limit on how "old" a check will be honored by the bank, I don't know offhand what the rules are on that, but I wouldn't want to take a check for next year and have trouble when presenting it...

The customer ask me if she can post date the full payment and I agreed. It's only one week post dated, not a big deal to me.

Thanks,
Jun

you need to give her the money back and cancel her. post dating a check? is this for before or
after the wedding? she can easily put a stop on it. bad business.

I don't know how there would be bad mouthing or bad publicity from the bride... Would she be telling others "I cancel my contract but the vendor won't return my deposit"

I once had a bride cancel her wedding because they broke up. I told her I will keep her deposit as credit in the future. Then 5 years later, I found out from others she is married to another guy. So I think she's embarrassed to come back to me, or she think hiring me is a curse =)