This is a plea for some guidance in getting my workflow together.

I've been around Adobe and Cineform for a long time, but I am new to AJA cards. I have installed a LHi card with their newly released v.5 software. My computer, a dual Quad core with 20 Gigs of Ram and windows 7 64 bit, works fine with Premiere and Cineform. But where is this great integration with AJA?

I contacted Cineform and they said that would be an AJA function - contact them. I did, asnd AJA says, and I quote " We talked about this at a meeting before we released version 5 and all third party issues will have to be taken up with those vendors." Okay, now this leaves me, the consumer, stuck once again in the crossfire of three companies and I think it is really stupid.

How do you time line monitor Premiere? Where are the presets to accept Cineform or have the Cineform integration with the AJA card? This all seems to unneccasarily complex in set up.

I want to be sure that my HDV is using the Cineform codec. When I choose this in the setup menu, there are no AJA centered playback screens unlocked. Of course these playback screen options are unlocked if you choose an AJA preset, but then there is no Cineform.

If there is someone out there that has this combination of equipment in their workflow, I'd love to get an honest, straight up operating workflow answer.

Thanks

Greg Kubitschek

When AJA releases CS5 support look for native CineForm -- no crossfire, they just hadn't released it yet -- we are working with AJA on this.

I'm sitting in the same boat as you Greg, I await the full support of Cineform/AJA/CS5 before I buy CS5.

Need a Pro system, not one almost "Pro" system like CS4 SAGA!!!

I'm still in CS3 and Prospect HD with AJA support.

Regards
Mikael

Can anyone say "bleeding edge"?

So sorry....I got tired of blood loss and am with Mikael and CS3 for now...

Boy did we all bleed dry with CS4!

So far CS5 Premiere Pro is good. Much more stable, and with all the RAM you can throw at it, it seems to quiet down and obey. The AJA LHi card works good too. Even with the new 5.0 CS5 release of the software they had last week. Time line monitoring works, with the right combination of settings, and using HDV over the HDMI output of my Canon HV30. It is combining the two that is the last real hurdle. Being able to select CIneform output somewhere to monitor the project that is orginally Cineform. The reduced data rates of the CIneform files, the wonderful use of First Light makes CS5 and Cineform a good marriage - Finally. Once a few final updates, like HD link, get accomplished, We will all have solid performance again.

Greg Kubitschek

David, how long will it take until you have the support for the AJA now that their latest software 5.0 supports CS5?

PS AJA has support for the MPE, so sweet:-)

Regards
Mikael

We were running CineForm software on AJA systems in the AJA booth at NAB, both Windows and Mac...the 3d workflow seems like one of the most elegant approaches I've ever seen. It wasn't a complex thing to set up a project at all. Once the drivers are released I think you'll find it works inside the NLE you're using (PPro or FCP) similar to what you're used to from a user-interaction perspective.

It was all prerelease software at the tradeshow of course, but it didn't seem very temperamental to me. I would guess that these drivers are not far out...

(Though I am not privvy to any actual timelines with either AJA or CineForm on a corporate level of course.)

Tim, do you know if Machina and Cineform can coexist, be installed at the same time, it was not possible before?

Thought the driver was released from AJA? the ver.5.0???

Regars
Mikael

I know we had Machina on the PC I was demo'ing on...and I was in CineForm 3d material most of the time...

I have to look at drivers versions and circle back...

(I'm getting ready to get in the studio to do the Class On Demand CS5 training for ProdPrem and PPro and my brain is overflowing with version numbers for various plugins and hardware drivers...)

Thanks Tim

Good luck with your "Class On project". :-)

Regards
Mikael

Thanks Mikael...

I should note that I did not witness anything that was a problem with having Machine and CineForm NEO 3D on the same machine...

There are of course, always scenarios that happen for a first time somewhere... I just know that I ran them both (both AJAs CS5 drivers and I believe the version of CineForm we were running were prerelease)...so they were on the machine.

So...I guess I just don't want to speak for CineForm or AJA on that front and appear to make a specific guarantee of some sort. But I got no indication that there was a problem...I had an LHi AND a KONA 3 in that machine and had Vegas available on there as well...it was a festival.

In PPro, you can toggle back and forth between the two Kona cards within the work session for situations where you need ALL the I/O options...it was fun.

Sweet Tim:-)

I have a similar studio that you have (like the picture you showed in a previous thread) with 2 24 "LCD DELL true colors and a Pro JVC SD monitor with GENELEC 1031A

This is my PC setup:
Intel I7 920
ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 (X58 chipset)
Corsair 1600MHz 12GB of RAM
A dedicated PCIe x 8 raid card Adaptec 3085 with four Seagate 1TB in a external RAID 5 (Almost video 4TB disk space).
One SSD G2 Intel C drive.
AJA KONA LHi.
One RME soundcard HDSPe AIO.
I'm will buy Nvidia Quad 4800 for the MPE (I Have now the AMD/ATI 5870).
I hope it will fly with Cineform/AJA and CS5

Regards
Mikael

I have a 4800 Mac (same board...two DL DVI ports instead of Display port and DL DVI...same drivers on a PC) and I'm changing out my LH card for an LHi (in progress) and I'm using CineForm...

Withe the prep for training, I have software applications builds and various hardware components going in and out of this machine so frequently, I haven't settled into a set configuration yet...

I have no idea why it wouldn't work, but if I run into an issue, I'll note it.

Cool Tim, I use to have a Mac a long time ago:-)

Just saw this in the new AJA 5.0 manual, although they still mention Prospect HD???

"Note: For users who want to use both the CineForm Premiere Pro plugins for compressed workflow and the KONA Premiere Pro plugins for uncompressed workflow:
Because the CineForm Prospect HD plugins are dependent on older versions of the AJA Hardware drivers, it is necessary to have a dual-boot configuration if both Prospec/Neo and KONA plugins will be used. The KONA plugins must be installed on one bootable partition, and the CineForm plugins installed on the other."

Strange???

Regards
Mikael

I have a PC...it's just that they only make the 4800 with two DL DVI ports labeled as the "For Mac" version.

Same card...PC drivers...Done deal. (i was a Mac user in the 90s as well)

Strange...no, not really. I ran under dual-boot in CS3. CineForm and other OEM developers had a version of the AJA drivers they would develop for...and AJA would keep on modifying/improving the retail drivers, so the retail and OEM drivers often were different and they often did not like each other.

Most users in the past were either CineForm users or uncompressed and I don't know how many of us actually ran this way to keep a foot in both camps, but it really wasn't a big deal...it worked fine and I'd install the CineForm player on the AJA retail side so i could still read any CineForm files I needed to over there...

Howewver, I think that CineForm's approach has changed, and as systems have gotten more powerful David N. tells me that the dual boot approach is no longer an issue as CineForm has modified how it retrieves frames and plays them out. (He'll need to explain it), which means that the two are no longer in conflict.

I suspect that that line may be a bit out of date, but let me follow that up...

Thanks Tim, your like a sea of knowledge:-)

So just to be clear, Machina and Cineform on the same disk and same partition is no more a conflict when it comes to CS5 or CS3 for that matter?

PS Sorry I'm a Swedish dude and sometimes my reading a bit flawed, cool your a PC man:-)

I just confirmed from the AJA side that all should live in the same boot system in harmony with CS5.

-Tim

This is just sweet music to my ear Tim:-) Thanks for all hjälp

Some news from AJA:
AJA Windows Software 5.0 for KONA and Io Express Now Available
Support for Adobe CS5!
AJA is pleased to announce that AJA Windows support for Adobe CS5 is now available for free download from AJA's website.


New Features
• Support for Adobe Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Photoshop CS5 has been added (64 bit)
• Support for the Mercury Playback Engine in Premiere Pro CS5
• Support for CineForm compressed file playback has been added including support for stereoscopic files
Adobe CS5 Support for Mac Coming Soon!
Download Windows software v5.0 and read more about the new features and resolved issues in the release notes.

Will this mean that I can use Cineform wtih my AJA card or do I have to wait until Cineform add AJA?

David, will this work for us that use AVI Cineform files too, I like to have a SDI out monitor view from my timeline from Premiere CS5? (Windows 7 64)

"CineForm QuickTime file playback support in AJA Premiere Pro sequences has been
implemented. For users with any CineForm license, you can place CineForm QuickTime
files in your timelines for editing, monitoring, and output".

Question 2: Should I use the Cineform ASIO still to get perfect sync?

Best Regards
Mikael

If AJA released their Version 5 software for Adobe CS5 compatibility, are they supposed to have another release with Windows Cineform playback options? (The read-me file say sthey have this already for MAC time lines) If this is the case, where will you find the settings so you can monmitor your time line on an external HDMI or SDI Monitor?

Greg, I like to know this too, is Cineform "READY" for program monitor view from the timeline with AJA KONA LHi "PC" SDI and HDMI????

And the upcoming support for P2 AVC-Intra 100/50, what is the status for this????

Help us out here David please, do not leave us out in the darkness on this:-)

Regards
Mikael

CS5 AJA playback modes are supporting CineForm in the latest release from AJA. We believe this will help keep system configuration complexity to a minimum.

Re: P2 AVC-Intra, not yet, we get so few requests for it, we thought we had a workaround, but found it was not suitable for release. It needs to either easy or in high demand, currently it is neither.

So Cineform has nothing to do with AJA and Cineform any more is that right?, Everything depends on what AJA decides to support, Yes/NO????

Could you please tell me if all sound and video support goes through AJA these days with CS5 and please be "precise" and not through Cineform ASIO or Cineform's driver for the card it self as it was in Prospect HD in CS3/CS4????

I don't grasp this "new" AJA and Cineform support at all?????

Should I use the Cineform preset or AJA preset to get program program monitor view from the timeline with AJA KONA LHi "PC" SDI and HDMI????

No AVC-Intra okey now I know at least (not glade but now i know).

Regards
Mikael

AJA is now a licensee of CineForm's codec technology. So you will be seeing increasing CineForm support within AJA presets. This is a good thing. AJA and CineForm are partners in this. Use AJA drivers, and AJA presets, and follow the AJA manual, we will seamlessly work under those project settings.

Sweet David, just one last question they only tell about the quicktime support will "AVI" be supported too (Cineform AVI)???

Regards
Mikael

Yes AVI is in the works. Just as we have MOV in the works for CS5 under the CineForm playback. AJA released cross platform CS5 support so MOV was a priority, we focused Windows first so AVI was priority -- both will so both in time.

Do you have some sort of time schedule David for AVI Cineform for AJA?

I don't have details on AJA schedule, but we will ask on our next call.

Thanks David your the man:-)

AJA is now a licensee of CineForm's codec technology. So you will be seeing increasing CineForm support within AJA presets. This is a good thing. AJA and CineForm are partners in this. Use AJA drivers, and AJA presets, and follow the AJA manual, we will seamlessly work under those project settings.

So, I set up a new project with the AJA presets, import my HDV Canon 24 F as 1920 x 1080 Progressive and edit. This gives me the use of time line monitoring through the AJA card. In doing this, I am using the Cineform codec in the project? If this is correct, is it because of Cineform is being installed with AJA that places the codec to work internally under the AJA settings?

The way I would normally think to do this is pick the Cineform Preset option - like I've done in the past, choose the 1440x1080 24F 1:33 setting and edit. I would normally think that under "Sequence playback" settings, there should be a "Cineform setting."

Then the confusing part to me is what is the difference from what I werote above and this:

[Yes AVI is in the works. Just as we have MOV in the works for CS5 under the CineForm playback. AJA released cross platform CS5 support so MOV was a priority, we focused Windows first so AVI was priority -- both will so both in time. - David Newman]

What about HD link CIneform material that has already been captured - DO I just bring it into to an AJA preset project and edit it?

Because this sounds like the use of AVIs isn't incorporated with AJA yet?

David - Thanks for your patientce in getting us to understand this.

Mikael - Thank to yo for continuing this conversation thread!

Greg Kubitschek

Some of the acceleration is not complete for AVI yet. There are so many features to support and add, it can be confusing yet we are discussing. Yes, CineForm adds an AVI importer which all work in all editing modes including AJA.

Thanks David and Greg lets get this "confusing" setup for Cineform and AJA strait!!!

1.I pick one of the "AJA" preset to work with Cineform, question number one is should I use uncompressed or compressed preset?

2. I use to convert my P2 files to a Cineform 1280x720 25p (PAL) AVI file inside the HDLink into the "HIGH" compression mode in the option mode of picking the one I liked most. Now is this like uncompressed or is it compressed when it comes to AJA’s preset?

3. Now if you guys are working on the mov support and AJA is working on the AVI support thats fine, but how on earth are you gonna get this to work. Bring in a AVI file in to a AJA preset when they not get support it and the other way a round like P2 to mov not supported in Cineform "how". It's a merry-go-round don't you see!!??

4. I just "LOVE" to work with Cineform files and FL so to me this is critical to me to make this work David with my AJA KONA LHi (PC), perfect sync with audio and picture through SDI timeline program monitor view!!!! I work for the biggest Broadcast industry here in Sweden so it's not just me that is depended on these you know:-)

Help us out here David:-)

Regards
Mikael

This is not that complex.

1 & 2) use uncomrpessed, although I don't think is matters.

3) No merry-go-round just adding more support -- not removing formats.

4) Yes, and you should be talking to AJA also let them know adding CineForm is important to you also.

Basically you can drop an AVI on the timeline and play through HDSDI today. We are hope AJA will add some acceration. There is nothing more to it and FirstLight works automatically with all CineForm sources. If AVI is an issue today for your AJA setup, you can convert to MOV as a default within HDLink, drop those on the timeline and play out through AJA. So there is no issue, and support is only going to get better.

I have HD Link captured HDV footage. High Resolution setting, AVI with no converstion. Files are 1440x1080.

These Cineform files play great in the Windows Media Player, and if you edit in CS5 with Cineform time line presets, no problem.

I can't choose an AJA preset (Compressed 1440x1080) and have anything but green screens in the source, timeline playback or HDMI out through the AJA card. When I choose a 1920x1080 preset, I get a Green screen on the source window, and a wrong PAR on the playback and HDMI output.

This is why I cannot get Cineform files to play nicely with the AJA card. I am trying to work with a Service tech at AJA but what I get is "We don't support the Cineform Codec" or, "this is all new to us, but it should work."

I have several drives full of CIneform footage, and this is becomming a problem. If I capture from HDMI from my Canon HV30, the AJA card seems to work okay, but all my previous footage is the problem.

Greg Kubitschek

That sounds simply like a AJA bug not support 1.33:1 HD files. Do submit a bug report to AJA. You could up convert them to 1920x1080 in HDLink (AVI to AVI conversion is supported.)

Thanks for keeping up on this thread David. I sent a file to AJA, and they confirmed.

[Thanks for sending the file. QA sees the same problem with your file. It seems to be related to the type of file which wasn't tested. My QA guy is filing a bug so it can be addressed in an update. But as of right now there isn't a way to play that particular file type through the Kona.]

I have since tested a full 1920 x 1080 and that works great!

Greg Kubitschek