I am in a fairly small market and don't offer HD video unless the client asks for it. I currently shoot in SD in 16x9 and have had no complaints. And in 3 years no inquiries about HD. i have the equipment to do it but i have yet to have a client ask for it.
i am curious how many of you have clients that actually ask for it and do you charge more for it or the same? etc....
-JS

Hi Jason

I moved over to using HD cameras over a year ago and still have not had one single bride ask for their wedding on BluRay!! I doubt that they even know what a BD disk is!! I would say that in the last 5 years the only enquiry I ever had was "Do you use HD cameras" ...(I didn't at that stage and they were not worried either)
I think one has to figure out whether the bride does has a BD player and also consider the fact that their immediate family are also unlikely to have one either!!! What I do at the moment is offer the wedding on BD as an extra but always tell them that the HD footage is stored on my drive if they decide on a BD copy at a later date.
I will be perfectly honest and say that very, very few couples (in fact the guy above is the only one I remember) ask any sort of technical questions about my gear..they want their wedding covered and are not really worried about cameras and delivery formats at all.

Chris

None of my friends or family own a bluray player.

I know we are a bit behind in Australia but at this point I don't think it's even a concern for most companies here. I COULD do one if they asked for it, but that has never happened so far and I think until bluray becomes far more common it's not going to be a concern.

As far as charging more for it, well you definitely need to cover your own personal costs so that you are making at least the same amount of profit. So you need to factor in extra software, hardware, expendables, and maybe even licensing (not too sure what the deal is with this)? Also if you need to do DVD and Blu-ray versions then this is extra work for you so you need to charge for the extra time as well.

Thing is, upscalling DVD players (and that includes all the HD-DVD and BluRay players) do an excellent job of making DVDs look good when played on a big 1080 set. On top of that the DVD can be played almost universally now, on PCs Macs, laptops, portables, in the car and so on.

BluRay is demonstrably better from a picture quality pov, but if you post it to your mum and she can't play it it's just a pretty shiny disc.

tom.

I shoot all my weddings in HD and so far have only delivered one HD wedding on BD. I have to say, what a waste of money setting up BD this has been. I have not had one BD production since this couple wanted a BluRay version and no corporate clients want BD either.

One good thing in using HD camera in a static position as a 2nd or 3rd cam is you can reframe, zoom or pan in post and simulate a manned camera without reducing resulution on a DVD. Zoom up to 30% is ok.

To be honest I went to HD cameras because I really had no option!! I have always run Panasonic and when I was ready to upgrade they just never had a SD 16:9 shoulder mount camera!!! They had just discontinued the DVC62 model so the only thing I could do was shift up to the HMC series so I could shoot widescreen (shooting a wedding party of 10 in 4:3 isn't easy!!!)

I actually transcode my AVCHD footage down to SD now at edit in SD..easier on the NLE and WAY faster!! That also confirms the already mentioned cost factor. It takes a LOT longer to render a 20 min ceremony in HD compared to SD so you need to charge extra edit time. The BD blanks are more expensive and then you have to buy a BD Burner and ideally a player too to test the disk!! I would suspect that doing a full wedding in HD would add some serious extra time to your post production so also bear that in mind and cost accordingly!!!

Yes, I do agree that you CAN zoom in HD and get away with it. in my last wedding I was using a static cam in the aisle and forgot to check the field of view so I left it on full wide. Shooting with the 2nd cam next to the altar my arm and camera are often in the A-Roll footage so a quick zoom of 10% fixed it...in SD I would have lost a fair amount of resolution!!!

Chris

I was shooting in SD and business was going great. No need to change a thing. Then I purchashed the Canon 7D in November. I've spent $8,706 on the 7D with all the lenses and accessories. I charge $350 extra if the brides wants her video shot in HD (no blu-ray disc included). I show the bride comparative samples of my SD (Canon GL1 and XHA1) and samples of my 7D & (T2i). So far, everybride has upgraded to HD and spent the extra money. They are blown away by the image. I've earned $9,175 by offering HD and this has obviously offset my 7D costs. All the weddings I booked prior to my purchase of the 7D are still upgrading so now the money is all gravy.

One good thing in using HD camera in a static position as a 2nd or 3rd cam is you can reframe, zoom or pan in post and simulate a manned camera without reducing resulution on a DVD. Zoom up to 30% is ok.

thats a great point. gonna remember that.

and Michael Simons, thats great you are making the money back so quickly. i dont have much money for new equipkent right now so will stick with my SD camera(s)i own and just rent some HD ones if a client prefers that. great to hear they like the image so much more tho so i won't be too timid in buying an HD camera in the near future.

-JS

We did our first Bridal Show in January, and brides were asking about HD. It's just starting to really catch. Because I just started my business about a year ago I decided to invest in HD from the beginning, although I could have gone either way. When HD delivery becomes the norm (and it will) I'm already preparing everything in HD first and can just give them a Blu-Ray version of their wedding when they want it... and get another sale off that. ;)

I charge $350 extra if the brides wants her video shot in HD (no blu-ray disc included).

How are you providing the video? Do they get a DVD or do you give them a HD file they can play on their computer or TV via one of those media drives?

Currently I shoot everything in HD and edit HDV material on the timeline, but my output is always DVD for weddings. As others have said, this means I can zoom or crop a little if I need to (like when the photographer jumps in the side of the shot).

While HD has been slow to enter the mainstream in Australia, 3d is getting a lot more attention, no doubt thanks to Avatar. Last night they broadcast one of our major Rugby matches in 3d for the first time, though I didn't see it as I don't have a 3d set. Even my dad, who doesn't care for HD and is happy with his Standard def 16:9 LCD flatscreen recently asked me about 3d TV's. I sincerely hope that people don't start expecting 3d for weddings because it's gonna add a whole new level of complexity - not to mention a whole new set of gear!

Here in the UK you never see a non-HD set advertised, they're all either HD (1080p) or HD-Ready (720p).

People say the World Cup will be the point at which people will start switching to HD storage as wellas viewing, but although we shot everything in HD almost all our clients take their programmes on DVDs. As Tom said, upscaled DVDs are so much better than DVDs. My guess is that the move to Blu-ray will take longer.

However, I believe professionals should be ahead of the game and should be prepared for the first Blu-ray request, not panic buy and panic learn the technology.

[QUOTE=John Wiley;1531980]How are you providing the video? Do they get a DVD or do you give them a HD file they can play on their computer or TV via one of those media drives?

The bride gets the same DVD that she would get if I shot in SD.

Here's the best advice I can give you. I'm not gonna get into a boat load of details so you figure out the workflow.

Shoot HD and archive the footage. When HD smacks them in the face in a few more years you can always contact them and let them know you'd be able to master to BR. As for me, once I have given a final SD copy I make a BD and store it when the time is right. The longer they wait the price will increase.

Ivan, when I re-read Jason's original question it seems to me that he wasn't requesting workflows or any particular load of details, so no doubt he'll find the brevity of your response enlightening.

What I would question are the economics of your suggestion.

If you don't have authoring software like Premiere which will allow you to use the same menus in your BD version as in your DVD version there's the time and cost of producing a BD version on spec.

The BD version you offer for sale when the client's have had their faces smacked will incorporate only today's authoring options - any variants which have emerged during the period won't be available, unless, of course, you also archive the HD programme files and re-authors in the future.

That will mean additional storage, and backup storage too if you're wise.

Then there's the question of whether you're still making money and if so how much. That will depend on a) the value of your currency at the future date when you sell the product and b) the cumulative cost of production and/or storage which you will have paid for with a less devalued currency.

Finally, there's the risk that it won't be BD that smacks your clients' faces but something else like Ultra High Definition for example - I'm sure you don't assume that progress has stopped with BD.

The reason I mention this in detail is because it's precisely what we do, but I do wonder if the costs of extending customer service in this way will be justified.

My experience - almost nobody is interested in BR, so I deliver my product on DVD. It still looks great thx to HD cams and progressive scan. I also give the customer a copy in HD saved as MP4 file. A little bonus I don't have to put extra work to but makes them happy :-)

I just started in on weddings. Been shooting everything else for years. Have never had a client of any type ask for a BD.

So.. I am shooting weddings with HD and sometimes zoom in on the HD footage in post to reframe or to provide some motion on a static camera (like the 3mos tm700 we tried out last wedding shooting from the back).
Had a buddy help me out with his DVX100B. (Wedding was actually a 1 cam shoot but I hate 1 cam shoots and I had a volunteer and access to that third 1080 60P 3mos.)

I ask the client how they want the finished product. And if they want it in SD, then I have the options stated above.

I'll buy a BD burner when the first customer asks me to deliver one and pay for the burner... lol

I shoot in HD all the time so that I have the extra pixels to play with in case I deshake it or zoom in, etc.

Denny, you're shooting weddings in HD which are 16:9 by default - yet your backup cam (the DVX) is most definitely a 4:3 cam. How did you manage to intercut the shots without one screaming at the other?

DVX100 can shoot in 16x9 letterbox or squeezed (anamorphic). I prefer squeezed to LB as you have to zoom in by 1.33x in order to get the right aspect if you use LB.

Really, isn't an issue for an SD output, if the cams are setup correctly. I use edius so multi format on the timeline isn't a problem. (Set up an SD project, and you RT preview will be SD).

I shoot flat so I set up the DVX as flat as possible. Some minor CC should settle things.

I use the Panasonic DVX-100B camcorder, and in 16:9 30P, 30/shutter mode, the video is really impressive. And to be honest, on an HDTV and a DVD player that upscales to 1080i, it's kinda hard to not think it's HD-quality. So at this point, I may purchase a third one, and may purchase an HMC-150 near the end of the year.

Well, before you do that Christopher, might I implore you to borrow a 150 and shoot some test footage alongside the DVX, which you can have set to any of its 16:9 modes?. If you do an A/B A/B cut on the timeline the increased resolution of the 150 will make you gasp, really it will. And you'll buy the 150 and forget about having another DVX

If you use Panasonic's 1.33:1 anamorphic on the DVX the fight is far more even, but I'm guessing you haven't got one of those.

tom.

I shoot a mix of weddings, direct to web commercials, educational staff development, and documentaries for non-profits and local historical groups, and for a couple of local independent film (direct to DVD) directors.

The only inquiry about HD was from an independent film director, "hey it would be cool to shoot in HD" , but his distribution is SD DVD, so the extra cost made this a non-issue. Plus, his editor's equipment could not handle hours of HD footage.

So for me, really 0 requests for HD. My new cameras will be HD but for the most part capture will still be SD for now.

I video every wedding in HD (Sony V1U cameras) but deliver on regular DVD. We offer a package that delivers Blu-ray discs but so far out of our handful of weddings (we are newbies) no one has even asked about that option. I have been waiting for Blu-ray burner prices to come down or for someone to actually choose this option for me to get one!

I do like the idea of starting out with the highest quality I can possibly acquire and then rendering to SD for DVD from it. I also like the idea of having the edit and tapes archived in HD as in a few years there may be a few brides who come back and want to pay good money for Blu-ray copies.

I shoot in HD and by default every single one of my customers receive a Blu-ray HD version of their wedding as standard,

I make a very big point of telling the potential client when they first enquire that they will receive a blu-ray version on top of the SD DVDs. It has helped me trounce the local opposition to a degree that I am the videographer of choice in the area. My bookings have increased to pushing 40 weddings this season and next year is getting very busy already.

Many wedding videographers are completely missing the point if they are waiting for clients to ask for the blu-ray version of their wedding. Storing a copy away in the hope that the client will come back and ask for a blu-ray version in years to come is a waste of a blu-ray DVD. It will never happen. Once you have received the "thanks the wedding film was fantastic" email or phone call you will not see or hear from them again unless you bump into them at the supermarket.

Use blu-ray as one of the major reasons why they should use you as the videographer. Tel them they get a blu-ray DVD as part of the package and that their wedding film is future proofed so when their children watch it in years to come they will see mummy and daddy in the best possible quality.

It has absolutely worked for me ( as well as everything else I do) and put me way ahead of the opposition,

Those not offering it as standard are missing out.

I always love it when this question comes up. There are always those who tell you that there is no
demand for HD. Then there are always those telling you that you don't wait for your customers, you
just go to HD no matter what the client wants, and that if you don't do HD you are missing out and
losing business. The truth, (as usual) is somewhere between the two.

First, HD is the future, I don't think anyone disputes that. The question is when exactly? In some
markets, it is already here. In others, not for some time. And THAT is the real issue here. NO ONE
on the internet can tell you about your market!!! You as the business owner, should be the one to
know your market and you should already know the answer to this question!!!

For example, those who think you 'need' to have HD NOW or you are losing out.....all I can say is
that I am still in business in my market and the 'start ups' that were offering HD are not! I have tried
and tried to sell clients on HD, but NONE of them want it! My two most recent projects were big
(for me) projects.....around $10 thousand dollar budget. I offered HD and a Blu Ray.
The clients said no, after they figured out what Blu Ray was and that it wouldn't play in their
DVD player! So I figure I offset Steve who is beating his competition by offering HD, as I
do NOT have the extra expense of HD, but can continue to use my old gear that has already
paid it's way many times over. I'm an admitted tech junky and really, really, really WANT to
buy a couple HD cams. But I am also a business owner, and it just does NOT make
solid business sense FOR MY MARKET! For other markets, it makes no sense to stay
SD! You, and you alone are going to be able to judge that. Because a business owner, the
first thing you have to do, is to KNOW YOUR MARKET!!!!

Those not offering it as standard are missing out.

Kind of a moot point Steve when your customers not only do not own a Bluray payer, but have no intention of ever buying one.

I've asked around. Blueray player sales have been dismal at best.

I state right in my packages that HD on blueray or on SDHD card can be arranged but know one wants it. (at least in my market).

Sorry I disagree. I would say 80-90% of my customers own a blu-ray player be it a PS3 or standalone. Those who don't own one are going to buy one to see their wedding film in all its glory.

When you consider two years ago what the price of a Blu-ray player is compared to today, youo as the videographer could afford to incude it in a package for the B&G as a wedding present. And why not. Cost you £75 ( $120) and might even generate further jobs as you are talked about.

My clienets are mostly higher end, educated couples with money spare. I am in the south of the UK and its an affluent area. The majority have the iPhone, will own an iPad as well as a PS3, XBox etc. I never get asked "What is blu-ray"?

Blu-ray is a fantastic selling point. It has given my business a massive boost. Sell it as a "must have" and tell them its free and included in the package. They WILL want it.

And in a couple of years time when Blu-ray is the norm, I could be offering 3D weddings as standard!

Stay ahead of the opposition. Don't get lost in a sea of mediocrity which blights the wedding video business. Many wedding videographers are great, but don't stand out because they don't offer that bit extra and don't sell themselves properly to the client.

So what do you do if your clients not only have no Blu Ray player, but also have no HD screen?
Do you buy one of those for them along with the Blu Ray player? Do NOT make the mistake of
thinking that because your market has 80-90% of people who have a Blu Ray player and HD set,
that ALL markets are like that. There are plenty of places that are NOT that way. Just cause it
works for you, does NOT mean it will work for everyone. The economy in the US is utter crap
right now, and many people I know do NOT have either Blu Ray OR HD sets, and have no
plans to buy one in the near future as they feel that what they have is 'good enough'.....especially
given the economy.

Obviously, if your market has 80-90% penetration of HD sets and Blu Ray players, you would
be foolish NOT to upgrade your video business to HD!!! But you would be equally as foolish
to spend a bunch of money on upgrading your business to HD if you can NOT get anyone to
actually PAY YOU for it!!

For me, the real problem here is those that are now including Blu-ray with everything, but didn't raise their prices to compensate. Of course they will do better than their competition who is charging extra for Blu-ray, in the short term, but in the long term they are yet again cutting our industry off at the knees. This is one of the reasons that video professionals are so underpaid. Too many of them are willing to invest in new technology or techniques and keep their pricing the same so that they can beat their competition. They don't realize that they are just ensuring that video professionals (themselves included) can't increase their profit margins.

We currently charge an upgrade fee for any couple that wants Blu-ray. Why? Currently there just isn't enough demand to justify raising our pricing across the board and start including Blu-ray. The current demand seems to be at around 10-20% for us. When that number approaches 40-50% we will likely begin including Blu-ray and raise our prices accordingly.

Also, I'd like to address the idea that if you serve high end clients then they will all be wanting or expecting Blu-ray. Nothing could be further from the truth. We've served plenty of high-end clients who have ZERO interest in Blu-ray at this time. Sure, if we included it for free (aka - at our own cost) then they aren't going to complain, but Blu-ray hasn't been a priority for them. I know for a fact that one very well-known studio, that serves only high end wedding clients, doesn't even offer Blu-ray. They are charging $5k, $10k even $20k and are not including OR even offering Blu-ray. I'm not saying I agree with that approach, but it's working very well for them.

Whether or not any one studio decides to start including Blu-ray needs to depend on the demand among their clients for it. If the demand is not there yet, charge extra and make it an upgrade. If the demand is there, raise your prices and include Blu-ray.

It seems to me that this thread is as much about similarities between us as differences between our markets. I haven't been to Alaska or BC for 25 years but I have people I regard as family spread through the lower 48 so I understand why the various contributors have such different views. The fact is that HD (which in Europe means 1080p - 720p is known as HD-ready and practically given away with cornflakes these days) has achieved a significant penetration of the European market. Municipal dumps have special areas where you can leave your 4:3 tubes.

Faced with that it's easy to understand why Steve, luxuriating in the affluent South (as opposed to we introvert, self-pitying, black pudding scoffers struggling to get by amongst the wretched squalor of the industrial North - we have to say that to discourage people moving north to God's country) feels as he does.

Travis has it 100% right when he insists that we don't give technology advances away, but on the other hand we regard improving the value of our package by adding elements that cost us little to provide, a good way of remaining competitive. This, of course, assumes that like us, everyone is increasing their prices each year and if you're not, well you should be.

We've replaced tape with CF card recorders which save us a day's work on every job. But that doesn't mean we can pass on the saving of 10-12 tapes - the CF readers have to be paid for and written off.

The fact is that although, thanks to the Internet, we are able to discuss business as if we really lived in a global village, in reality our clients live in many different villages.

Some really good points raised here amongst us filmmakers, and I reckon the best line expressed is 'know your market'. I'm of the opinion that very high picture quality is sure nice to have, but certainly not if it comes at the expense of artistry. Not that I'm saying that it does, but at the moment I'm concentrating on getting the best wedding edit done on DVD, knowing that everyone and his dog will be able to play it and appreciate it.

Here's a very small example. At the end of the wedding edit I finished yesterday I had the B & G come gently to a complete stop (using the excellent Canopus Speed Control) as the fade out started at the edges of the frame and homed in on them. This all synced with the end of the dance track which was itself the crisp CD audio that had gradually overtaken the recorded disco audio so that the film would finish cleanly.

I sure didn't need to do this. It would have been almost as good to keep the disco noise and simply apply a pic and sound fade. Full stop. All done and dusted in 2 mins instead of half an hour. So what I'm saying is this: All's well and dandy to go offering Blu-ray incentives, but in reality a DVD with your valuable time input is a better way to impress the client I'll wager.

Of course you could offer your time and your high def, but in that case your costs are higher, your audience is smaller and your prices must be higher (or your profits are lower).

tom.

I fully agree that prices need to be raised every year. My prices have increase significantly in the last three years and there's another £295 rise coming into play in September when the wedding fayre season starts.

From starting out 5 years ago at a cheap £795, my 2011 prices will be £1395 + VAT. (£1640 inc VAT)

Double the price of many of my competitors, yet they are lowering prices to try an entice bookings while I should hit 40+ weddings in 2011. Brides are not fools. They worry that a £800 videographer is not up to the job and would happily pay the extra for my services sfe in the knowledge they will get a great job.

I include the blu-ray DVD in the package. To charge an extra £100-150 is not good business to me and I want the bride to feel they are getting value for their hard earned money.

One thing I did notice of Phils site is that anyone can order a DVD of a wedding for £15. A great idea. Phil, how many people do you get taking up this offer? If done properly with advertising leaflets at the reception, it could add a further £200 profit in the value of each wedding.

Steve, unless I've made a big error on our site, I think you must be confusing me with another Phil in respect of the extra copies for £15.

Although I can appreciate the desirability of selling extra copies, when you've taken the actual costs of duplicate production, copyright licence, postage, packing and tax etc into account there's not a huge profit in £15 per item. We actually sell additional copies to our clients at £10 - and make it clear that we don't regard selling duplicates as a profit centre but as a client service.

Additionally it's something else to think about on the shoot day.

One small point, I find it interesting that you are able to quote exclusive of VAT (sales tax). We've always regarded wedding video production as a retail business we have always quoted a tax inclusive price. I guess it depends how many amateurs and part-timers are in your market and who don't have to charge VAT anyway. Of course, we should be charging more than them for the same price because in reality we're almost 20% cheaper than they are in terms of the money coming in to the business..

Sorry Phil I got you confused with FXfilms who offer that service. I think it's a god idea and takes the extra effort the bride has to make by people contacting her asking for a copy. She can just guide them to the website and they click on a button and pay via Paypal. £15 plus a couple of quid postage seems a fair price to pay for a copy.

I am the only guy in the area who charges VAT. The rest are not VAT registered so have an instant 17.5% advantage over me. But then again it shows I am a proper business and not a here today gone tomorrow business.

I won't include it in the price as it will look like I am much more expensive than the opposition. By stating my price ( which is a lot more) plus the VAT ( which clients look at as not money for me) I don't seem quite so pricey.

They get issued with a full VAT invoice and some can obvioously claim it back if they are VAT registered.

And I would recommend becoming VAT registered because I am certainly better of by being so. There's a lot of VAT to claim on equipment and I have certanly benefitted.