I got a chance to buy cheap old lenses ($20-$35) that are PK mount and M42 mount.
Should I get the lenses and adapters or is just better to save money and buy EF mount?

if they are fast lenses and have manual aperture rings, get them cheap and buy a EF mount adapter for each one.

but if its a JCPennys brand f4.5 zoom lens- you may want to pass

This is just some of the lenses:

Minolta 50mm 1.7 (PK Mount)
Canon 50mm 1.8 (FD Mount)
Vivitar 28mm 2.8 (M42 mount)
Rikenon 50mm 2.0 (PK Mount)
Sears 50mm 1.7 (PK Mount)
X-Fujinon 50mm 1.9 (PK Mount)
Yashinon 135mm 2.8 (M42 Mount)
Kalimar 80-200mm 4.5 Zoom (M42 Mount)
Sigma 75-210mm 3.5 (PK Mount)
Tokina 80-200mm f/4 Zoom Zoom (PK Mount)
Tokina 70-210mm f/4 Zoom (PK Mount)

Any advice witch one to get. So far I got only kit lens.

I saw that same list, and had zero interest. Your interests may differ.

Not sure about mounts, but research it before you buy, not all are mountable.
You can always get a nifty-50 for 90$ , so those 50mm might not be worth it, depending on how much you pay, so I would look at these maybe:
Vivitar 28mm 2.8 (M42 mount)
Yashinon 135mm 2.8

This is just some of the lenses:

Minolta 50mm 1.7 (PK Mount)
Canon 50mm 1.8 (FD Mount)
Vivitar 28mm 2.8 (M42 mount)
Rikenon 50mm 2.0 (PK Mount)
Sears 50mm 1.7 (PK Mount)
X-Fujinon 50mm 1.9 (PK Mount)
Yashinon 135mm 2.8 (M42 Mount)
Kalimar 80-200mm 4.5 Zoom (M42 Mount)
Sigma 75-210mm 3.5 (PK Mount)
Tokina 80-200mm f/4 Zoom Zoom (PK Mount)
Tokina 70-210mm f/4 Zoom (PK Mount)

Any advice witch one to get. So far I got only kit lens.

Hi Slavomir,

A friend of mine, Chris Watson, has done a lot of research on vitage lenses and has an article coming out in EventDV magazine. I just checked and the article is not online yet, but it should be available any day. You can watch for it here, EventDV.net: The Event Videographer's Resource (http://www.EventDV.net)

In the mean time, I can tell you that based on info from Chris I have bought several old vintage lenses. I am unfamiliar with several on your list, but one lens that cannot be easily adapted to an EOS mount is the Canon FD lenses. I have lenses with the PK mount, M42 mount, Nikon and Yashica/Contax and they all work great with $10-25 adapter rings from https://www.fotodiox.com/catalog/home.php

You can get faster lenses if you stay with primes, but if you have to have a zoom, there are some great, low cost choices out there. Vivitar made some lenes that were above par for their day. Look for a Vivitar Series 1 70-210 with a constant aperature of 3.5. You can find theses in the Nikon and PK mount all day long on ebay for $50-75. Another nice lens is the Vivitar Series 1 28-105 f/2.5-3.5.

For vintage primes, Nikon and Takumar are great options. Nikons have risen in price, but you can still find 50mm 1.4 Takumars on ebay below $100. A great thing about these old lenses is that they were made to manually focus. The new Canon nifty fifty has a really nasty focus ring. You would be much better off spending $100 on a Takumar 50mm 1.4 than the new Canon nifty fifty.

Another thing to lookup on ebay is a series of Russian made lenses. Chris will go into detail in his article, but until then, Mir24 35mm f2.0, Mir1 37mm f2.8, Helios44 58mm f2.0 are just a few that come in either an M42 (screw mount) Nikon or PK mounts.

This is just some of the lenses:

Vivitar 28mm 2.8 (M42 mount)




This is the only one it might be worth bothering with, and it depends which variant it is, and only if it's cheap.

If it says "MC Close Focus" on the front, there is a chance it is a great lens, but not worth more than £20-£30 depending on condition. I use mine a lot for indoor shots.

You listed a Yashinon 135mm f2.8 in there, which is poor, but if you can get a Pentacon 135mm f2.8, the older model, which has 15 aperture blades and a click free aperture ring, this is also a great cheap lens.

The rest...keep walking.

Everything Mark says is spot on. I have the nifty fifty and the Takumar 50mm f1.4, and honestly the difference in colour rendering is huge. The Takumar blows the Canon away.

FD mounts won't work without an adapter that adds another lens element. Those adapters aren't well received.

As to the other lenses, some here may be considering the their value as still glass. Remember you video resolution is lower, so the glass that is being panned by some may be just fine for video.

I have three lenses with Pentax K mounts, that are great. One is a Takumar zoom (28-80) that is great for that service on my 5D. I have shot a lot of footage with it. It also has a macro mode on the telephoto end that allows me to shoot close focus shots. The others are Pentax branded, a 50mm F 1.4 SMC, and a 28mm F2.8. I think the 50mm is better glass than my Nikon F 1.4 for my 5D. I do have a vintage 1970s Nikon mount Vivitar 70-210 that also does a real nice job. I bought most of these on Ebay, or had on hand from my still shooting days.

.

As to the other lenses, some here may be considering the their value as still glass. Remember you video resolution is lower, so the glass that is being panned by some may be just fine for video.



Just fine resolution wise, but what about contrast, colour rendering, vignetting, corner sharpness and CA? That all matters every bit as much in video as in stills.

I mostly use vintage lenses for video, generally fast primes. IMHO almost none of the ones listed are worth buying, not because they are all inadequate for video, but for one or more of the following reasons:

- For the $20 - $30 you can get better on ebay
- They are old, slow zooms with poor IQ, which are a waste of time

Great old lenses really are cheap, and will produce high quality video, but it's worth doing a little reading around each lens, as there are plenty of dogs

thanks for the advice,
ordered Vivitar 28mm 2.8 (M42 mount) $25

Mark Von Lanken looking forward to read the article by Chris Watson on vintage lenses, let us know when is online.

so I purchased the lens and now I need the adapter.
would you guys recommend any place to buy from?

thanks

Hi Slavomir,

I use Fotodiox adapters. Sometimes you can find good deals on them on Ebay or Amazon. To know if you are getting a good deal, just go to their website here, https://www.fotodiox.com/catalog/home.php and compare prices. Sometimes the best prices are on their website but it's free to shop around and compare.

Another thing you want to do is purchase the back lens caps, which will now be a Canon EOS after you have installed the adapter ring. Fotodiox sell those as well.

Here is the article on vintage lenses by Chris Watson. Reading this article will save you hours of research.
EventDV.net: The Event Videographer's Resource (http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/News/Feature/Vintage-Lenses-in-the-DSLR-Age-68120.htm)

Currently I am using a Nikon 28mm with an adapter I got on ebay with my T2i. The only down side to having this lens is that it is constantly at 45mm with the 1.6 sensor size difference. Therefore a zoom lens that starts from about 17 or even 10 mm would be helpful.

Hey Slavomir,

I think you picked out a great lens especially if there's a 22 , 28, or a 37 at the start of the serial number. These numbers are indications of which manufacturer Vivitar contracted to make their lenses at the time. 22 is Kiron, 28 is Komine, and 37 is a brand you should be familiar with-Tokina. Here's some more info on the serial number thing with Vivitar.....

Vivitar 70-210 Series 1 Macro Zoom Lenses - Mark Roberts Photography (http://www.robertstech.com/vivitar.htm)

I have the Kiron made 70-210 3.5, the Tokina made 70-210 3.5 (for the wife's camera), and the Komine made 28-90 2.8-3.5 and they are all amazing lenses with their own special characteristics. For instance, the Kiron made 70-210 3.5 will give you very punchy colors and nice sharpness. Here's part one of a wedding highlight in Cabo I made that really shows off what the Vivitars can do. All the travelogue shots (except for the sea gull) were shot with the 70-210.....

Cabo Wedding Part 1 on Vimeo

A friend of mine from Wisconsin, Phil Hinkle of Frogman Productions, recently picked up the Sears 50mm 1.7 and loves it so if you can get one for a good price, pick it up. The interesting thing about Sears lenses is that in the case of their 50's, they were made by Mamiya and rebranded for the American market under the Sears label. This means you are getting the same great optical quality of a Mamiya Sekor without the Mamiya Sekor prices. Congrats on getting the Vivitar. I think you'll like it alot!

Chris Watson
Watson Videography
www.dallasweddingfilms.com

Thank Chris,
Cabo looks terrific.
Vivitar 28mm 2.8 serial # starts with 28 and I also got vivitar 200mm 3.5 that starts with 37. Just ordered the adapter last night and I cant wait to try those lenses. Still looking for some zoom lenses that will do good in low light, but not sure which lens to look for yet. Any advice is welcome.

The 28 2.8 is definitely a keeper. I've seen images taken with that lens and they are really striking. As far as zooms go, do you need a standard zoom (starts around 28 and ends around 70mm) or a telephoto zoom (starts at 70 and usually goes to 200)? For a cheap standard zoom that's pretty good in low light, you can get the Vivitar 28-105 2.8-3.8 that Mark Von Lanken has or you can get the Vivitar 28-90 2.8-3.5 that I carry around. The advantage is pretty obvious as they reach further in than most standard zooms do without losing as much speed throughout the focal range. Also the fact that the macro capabilities is unreal on them is a welcome bonus.

If you need a telephoto zoom, then the Vivitar 70-210 3.5 is a great choice as well. It's almost as fast as a modern 2.8 zoom lens for much much less. In fact I saw a listing on Ebay for one in the PK mount for only $49 for a first edition version of the lens. Best of luck and can't wait to see what you do with the Vivitars!

Chris W

I have been offered a Vivitar 28mm-200mm 3.7-5.7f Is that going to be too slow in low light?

.

I can't think of _any_ 28-200 that will be fast enough in low light. I would not go any slower than f2 for low light.

There's a few 35/2's out there, I have a Russian MIR 35/2 in M42 mount and a Soligor 35/2 in Nikon mount. Both were less than $50-.

Also keep an eye out for the Kiron/Vivitar 24/2's in various mounts. They tend to have sticky apertures due to age, but for video and manual focus use, that's not a deal breaker. I have a Vivitar 24/2 in OM mount.

Another possibilty, is Canon EF-S lenses like the 17-55/2.8 and 17-85IS with burnt-out USM motors, rendering the AF un-useable, but the IS often is fine, and you'd only use them in MF mode anyhow. The price also drops significantly.

I have been offered a Vivitar 28mm-200mm 3.7-5.7f Is that going to be too slow in low light?

.

I think you'll probably be disappointed with that lens for low light. 3.5 is really the minimum max aperture for low light situations and that's with a light on already. If you don't want to use light, then you need something at least as fast as f/2 as Kin stated. At receptions, we switch to fast manual primes with one of us doing a wide shot with a 35mm f/2 and the other using an 85mm 1.4 or 55mm 1.4.

It's a different workflow but if you have two shooters at the reception, it's worth doing.

Chris W

Thank you Kin & Chris.

The feedback is appreciated.

Cheers

.

Hi Howard,

It's good to see you over here at DVInfo. The whole lens thing is so different with DSLRs compared to a traditional video camera. I really had to rethink my processes and lens choices.

The first reception that I shot the entire time with a DSLR I was really disappointed. I had the Vivitar Series 1 70-210 f3.5. It was great for close shots of dancing, but it didn't look any brighter than what I would get with my HMC150. If anything it looked darker. The photographer had a Canon L 24-70mm f/2.8 that she let me experiment with. While it was brighter than the 70-210 3.5, I was not impressed with what I saw.

Then at another wedding I had a WOW moment. I was shooting the reception with a Nikon 24mm f/2.8 and it looked okay. Then the photographer let me use his Canon L 50mm f/1.4. Talk about AMAZING. It looked so bright and the DoF looked so incredible. Then I tried out his 80mm f/1.4. Again, incredible imagery! That experience sold me on using fast primes for a lot of the reception, especially in low light conditions.

That night I came home and started my ebay search for 1.4 lenses. I now have a Takumar 50mm f/1.4, Nikon 50mm f/1.4 and I just got the Rokinon 85mm f1/.4 that I will use this weekend. Without fast lenses, f/2.0 and below, you will not be able to take advantage of the low light capabilities of DSLRs

Yes, it is different working with primes over zoom lenses, but it's a matter of selecting the right lens for the right segment of the wedding day. There are times when there is enought light that I can use the Vivitar Series 1 70-210 f/3.5 and 28-105 f/2.8-3.8, but if the reception is really dark, those zoom lenses stay in the bag.

Thanks Mark

It is good to hear from you.

At this stage, I have the kit lens, which came with the camera. I am told that it is not too bad when it is at its widest angle.

Following advice from Chris Watson, I was lucky enough to buy a Russian Zenit with a Helios Lens.44M-4, 1:2/58mm.

Our situation is different to most. We still have two Canon XM-2 (GL-2) cameras. One is 12 months old and the other is 18 months old. We edit in SD on Adobe Premiere Pro 2. The new Canon EOS 550D (T2i) is mainly going to be used as a static camera during the service and speeches.

The two lenses which we have will suffice, for the time being but if I can pick up some old but fast prime lenses on the second hand market, I will do so.

You might ask why I didn't just buy another video camera, instead of the Canon EOS 550D? I feel that it can play a part for a short corporate video, where the client requires HD

Cheers

.

Howard good to see you here as well.

Yeah, I just ordered the Rokinon 85mm 1.4 the other day and am looking forward to checking it out, especially in low light.

I already have the nifty 50 Canon 1.8 and love the glass. but hate the focus ring.
I also have a MIR1b 37mm 2.8 Russian lens that is tiny but sweet.

However I have been only looking only into fast primes as was suggested here.
With video and a DSLR I don't see the need to use a zoom, as I am easily able to simply move myself closer tot he subject if needed, at a reception.

With the 1.6x cop factor on the 550D, the only hiccup might be not having enough room to move back if need at a venue. But then I woudl simply change lenses if this is required.

But having fast primes in the 1.4-2.0 range should cover this for low light shooting.

I already have a 50mm, but am looking for a more robust one and have my eye on a couple Super Taks, but am also planning to pickup either a Canon 28mm 1.8 EF lens or a Sigma 30mm 1.4 to cover the wide shots.

While I like the vintage lens route, I also would like a mix of auto lenses to mix in when needed as well.
If I can find a good affordable 1.4-2.0 28-30mm lens then I will jump on this first.

But as suggested fast glass is the way to go.
Cameras might not hold their value, but good fast glass always will. So it's easy to sell and upgrade later on if desired.

Thanks Michael

It is good to hear from people we know from way back.

Cheers

.

I find it strange that it is so hard to find a fast wide angle lens, while with zooms the problem of a large aperture always lies on the long end.. You can easily find old 50mm 1.4, but the best 28mm are all f/2.8. Then there's hardly any benefit compared to my Tamron 17-50 f2.8.. although the contrast and saturation will perhaps be better, I'd choose for the AF (for stills) and zoom of the Tamron.

Also, do you know an old really wide-angle lens which is comparable to the Tokina 11-16? Preferably with a K-mount

I believe that I saw a Zeiss lens that might be comparable for old manual lenses. But it will cost ya more than the Tokina.

BTW, while I assume that Pentax K adapters will work with the EOS mount, I haven't had great success with this mounts, as they seem to come lose rather easily. I prefer M42, Nikon, and MD mounts myself, as they seem to be much more reliable in my experiences.

Shame, since I have seen lots of god deals on Pentax K mount lenses, but have passed due to my lack of c=success with those adapters.

I find it strange that it is so hard to find a fast wide angle lens, while with zooms the problem of a large aperture always lies on the long end.. You can easily find old 50mm 1.4, but the best 28mm are all f/2.8. Then there's hardly any benefit compared to my Tamron 17-50 f2.8.. although the contrast and saturation will perhaps be better, I'd choose for the AF (for stills) and zoom of the Tamron.

Also, do you know an old really wide-angle lens which is comparable to the Tokina 11-16? Preferably with a K-mount

I found a Vivitar Series 1 28mm f/1.9 at a market stall in Spitalfields, London. I couldn't believe my luck when the guy let me have it for £25. I later looked on ebay and found the same lense going for £80 plus.

The only problem is, compared to my Vivitar close focus MC 28mm f/2.8, it is not great. It has a washed out look, and clearly lacks contrast and saturation.

In a pinch, still a good option if I need fast and wide indoors. For the money, not bad.

Regarding the Tokina, I think there is a general lack of vintage lenses in this range primarily because 24mm was pretty much wide enough before the days of the crop factor.

I picked up a Contax Yashica 28mm f2.8 on eBay for pretty cheap.

I'm looking for old wide angle lenses however, anything below 20mm. Any ideas? Low f number would be nice as well. ;)

Yesterday I took the Helios.44M-4, 1:2/58mm into the garden for a test run. I had a tendency to overexpose. Our next two weddings will be outdoors. By then, the new Hoodman should have arrived. That will solve the problem.

Very nice pics! They have a nice retro look to them. That's a great lens you have there. By far one of my favorites.

Chris W

Thank you, Chris. You told me about the lens and I was fortunate enough to buy one.

Cheers

.

I'll second the vote for old Contax/Zeiss glass. There are still some real bargains to be had out there. Look for cheap versions of the 35mm f2.8, 28mm f2.8, 50mm f1.7, 50mm f1.4 and 135mm f2.8 - all can be had for $100-200 each if you are lucky. Fotodiox adapters work great with these. Old 85mm f1.4 and 25mm f2.8 can be had for around $400-500.

If you want real bargain bucket then try the Kiron and Vivitar lenses as others again have suggested. Old Tamron Adaptall2 is another great option, especially their 28mm and 90mm lenses.

Howard nice pics and retro feel to them.

I don't know if you have one, but pickup a polarizing or ND filter for your lens.

This should help dramatically when shooting outdoors. The Fader ND filters are excellent. They are expensive but enable yo to use 3-4 ND filters in one filter. So you only need one ND filter to cover any lighting situation.

Thanks Michael. Good idea. Why didn't I think of an ND filter? I bought the Zenit camera, with Helios lens, on the local equivalent of EBay. I collected it at a hardware store of all places. I think that I might have a right sized ND filter lying around.

Cheers


.

Funny the things that we take for granted with our video cameras, and forget about on DSLRs, built in ND filters being one of them.

I prefer the old Vivitar lenses to Kirons. I got a 28mm f/2.8 Vivitar with a Nikon mount for about $35 a year and a half ago. It's not a great lens, but it helped get me going. It feels a lot like a Nikon AI lens.

I also have an old Kiron zoom in a Canon EF mount from the 1980s. It's a piece of junk. It's very plastic and the aperture control is broken. The glass is poor. The aperture is way overspec'd - the corners were absolutely horrible when near wide open. Kiron would just open the aperture wider than the lens can handle in order to print aggressive marketing numbers.

I wouldn't buy an old Kiron, unless I could test it myself - and if it was really cheap. The Vivitar, on the other hand, delivered value without any false promises.

That's pretty surprising given that Kiron manufactured so many of Vivitar's best lenses. In fact there's a good chance one of your Vivitars is a Kiron made lens if the serial number starts with "22". I don't know enough about Kiron after they broke off into their own company but back when they were making Series 1 lenses for Vivitar, they were great quality.

Chris W

I prefer the old Vivitar lenses to Kirons.

I wouldn't buy an old Kiron, unless I could test it myself - and if it was really cheap. The Vivitar, on the other hand, delivered value without any false promises.

I've never seen a plastic Kiron. I have several and they're all very solid.

If you have a Vivitar with a serial number that starts with 22, then it's made by Kiron. Vivitar never made any of their own lenses, everything was subbed out. See Vivitar Lens Manufactuers (http://www.cameraquest.com/VivLensManuf.htm)

Clearly, my sample size of one lens is limited. :)

I bought it under duress - I was traveling in Germany in the late '80s (or was it the early '90s?) and the one lens that I had brought with me failed. I needed something that I could afford with cash on hand.

My first day out testing vivitar 28mm f2.8. I didn't have my loupe so most of the shots are overexposed. It was very windy late afternoon on florida beach. There is some weird dark flickering going on. I'm not sure why is it happening.

Vivitar 28mm f2.8 on Vimeo

I'm looking for an old lens under 20mm. Any particular ones to look out for?

Not many in the ultra wide range and none of them are particularily cheap. Still there are a few. There's the Mir 47 (20mm 2.5) or the Mir 20 (20mm 3.5) Both will run you about $200. You can also get a Zenitar 16mm 2.8 for $200. It's a fisheye but alot of the distortion is cropped out on a 1.6 crop sensor camera like the Canon 550D. They are easy to find on Ebay and some even come in the Canon EOS mount already so no need for adapters. I don't have any personal experience with any of these lenses but I hear good things about them.

My first day out testing vivitar 28mm f2.8. I didn't have my loupe so most of the shots are overexposed. It was very windy late afternoon on florida beach. There is some weird dark flickering going on. I'm not sure why is it happening.

Vivitar 28mm f2.8 on Vimeo (http://www.vimeo.com/13295889)

Nice clip. Cute kid :). It might be that aperture problem that's supposed to have been fixed with the new firmware update from Canon. I don't know how that could happen with a fully manual lens though. Weird. As far as exposure goes, try using the light meter on the camera. Outside, it'll look underexposed but that's just because of the glare. The exposure meter is right on most of the time. Looking forward to seeing more of your stuff!

I'm looking for an old lens under 20mm. Any particular ones to look out for?

I have the Zenitar-K 16mm f/2.8. It comes out to be about 25mm. I like it, especially at less than $200 compared to $600 plus for other wide lenses.

We did a Same Day Edit last weekend I have some shots with the Zenitar-K. We are going to polish it up and make a full blown Highlight out of the edit and once we get it online, I'll post the link.

Here's a link for one that has the EOS mount.
FishEye Zenitar-K f/2.8/16 Canon EOS New. - eBay (item 350313664309 end time Aug-04-10 12:01:00 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/FishEye-Zenitar-K-f-2-8-16-Canon-EOS-New-/350313664309?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item5190524f35)

You're probably better off to get the EF-S 18-55/IS which gives you IS as well for an affordable wide.

There aren't many good wider than 20mm lens out there that are affordable. There are the Tokina and Tamron 17/3.5's, a a few 19/3.8 or similar models by Vivitar, Spiratone, and a few other off-brands.

Other than that, most of the rest like the Nikon, Zeiss and Leica fast wide primes are more expensive than a Sigma 20/1.8 .

Yeah the EF-S 18-55 gives you IS, but it doesn't have constant aperture and isn't good in low light.

The Tokina 11-16mm and Sigma 20mm 1.8 are good suggestions, as they will be great in low light, as woudl be the Canon EF 28mm 1.8.

But as pointed out the Zenitar-K 16mm f/2.8 might be a good option as well.

Personally speaking I'm leaning myself towards the Canon EF28mm or the 24mm 1.8 SIGMA EX DG, both are similar but of course the Sigma is a little cheaper in price.

None of these have IS, but really most of these wide angle primes don't need IS as they are fixed lenses and being wide angle don't show nearly as much vibration as zoomed lenses do. Hense the IS necessity on the ES-S 18-55 which is zoomable.

I don't own the Canon 28mm f/1.8, but my second shooter does. I shot with that lens Saturday night at the reception. In addition to the Zenitar 16mm, I have a Nikon 24mm f/2.8, but since I had his Canon 28mm f/1.8 I used it instead for a lot of the party dancing.

It's a good lens, but at $450 it should be. I realize $450 is not much compared to many lenses, but it is a lot compared to what I have paid for all of my vintage lenses.

Thanks again Chris for saving me a boatload of money and introducing me to some great vintage glass.

Not a problem! You've helped me out over the years so I'm glad to give back. Can't wait to see your SDE shot with the Zenitar 16mm 2.8. I wish I had more time to play with it in Tulsa but from the little I shot with it, it seems like a pretty decent wide angle lens. And I know what you mean by how inflated the prices seem for AF lenses after collecting vintage glass for a while. I get the same kind of sticker shock.

Hi Robin,

I find it strange that it is so hard to find a fast wide angle lens, while with zooms the problem of a large aperture always lies on the long end.. You can easily find old 50mm 1.4, but the best 28mm are all f/2.8. Then there's hardly any benefit compared to my Tamron 17-50 f2.8.. although the contrast and saturation will perhaps be better, I'd choose for the AF (for stills) and zoom of the Tamron. Also, do you know an old really wide-angle lens which is comparable to the Tokina 11-16? Preferably with a K-mount

There's a need for a fast super wide - something in the 14-15mm range and f1.4, but it doesn't exist. There must be something about lens physics that doesn't allow that to be designed. The fastest wide angle I've come across is the Sigma 20mm f1.8 which doesn't get good marks for sharpness and is rarely under $300-400 used. I'm currently using a Vivitar 24mm f2.0 when I need a semi-wide angle that is faster than the 11-16 f2.8 Tokina.