On YouTube, most tutorials suggest using the trimmer. I get the feeling from most of the posts on this forum that the trimmer is a nuisance. As most of you are pros or very experienced amateurs, I'd like to hear your side before I get too involved one way or the other.


Thanks,
Burt

I have tried using the trimmer and found it awkward, it just didn't work for me. For me it's easier to find my cut points in the clip on the TL, cut, move the clip and move on to the next one but that's just me.

It's all a matter of personal preference.
Most of the time I work like Don does as I just find it easier.
A job I had last week though had me using the trimmer for the first time in a long time.
The producer wanted me to extract clips that met a specific criteria from a 3 hour training session.
I found it easier to watch the material in the trimmer, drop markers at the appropriate spots and then send them to the timeline one after the other.
This way, I didn't have to delete the unwanted segments from the timeline - and there were a lot of them!!

Quite a bit of my work is event-oriented, cutting 1 or more cameras, timeline editing, and sometimes multicamera, works fine.

If I'm cutting dramatic scenes where we've shot cine-style, running the action several times for different shots with one camera, the trimmer seems much more efficient.

I think that as the initial cut becomes more complicated, the trimmer becomes of greater use.

At least, that's how it seems to work for me. I do recommend that you spend a little time with the trimmer to get its basic functionality down...

Some Trimmer tips directly from Sony:

Discovering the Sony Vegas Pro Trimmer window (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/news/article.asp?articleid=48)

Trimmer window enhancements for Vegas Pro 8.0c provide familiar source/results view (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/email/smsnews/website/2008-10.htm#article4)

Typically for a standard project, I'll just drop the clips on the timeline, cut out what I don't want, and then rearrange as needed from there.

Sometimes I end up with a "hole" to fill and often I know what I want in that hole even if I don't know exactly where in which clip it resides. So I'll scan through clips in the trimmer until I find what I need, select that section, and drag it from the trimmer to the timeline to fill that hole. That's almost the only time I use the trimmer - when I have a specific hole to fill.

That's almost the only time I use the trimmer - when I have a specific hole to fill.

Even then, sometimes I find just dropping the clip into the hole, then "slipping" the clip within the hole (I think it's ALT-Drag or somesuch), to be easiest.

I've used a few times just to try it. I found it interesting, but not necesary for my work. I felt I was just adding another step to the edit process when it's not necessary. I can see where it makes sense if you're cutting sections of a long video, but that hasn't been my case.

Even then, sometimes I find just dropping the clip into the hole, then "slipping" the clip within the hole (I think it's ALT-Drag or somesuch), to be easiest.

Bill, thank you. I never realized that option existed. I've only been using Vegas for about 6 years, maybe I should read the manual one of these days.

As far as the trimmer, I never used it much until I started shooting live events. When I have a long bit of footage of something (like dancing at a reception), I run through it in the trimmer using the I/O keyboard shortcuts to mark the good parts, and saving the sub-clips to a new folder. Then I never have to go through the junk again, leaving it on the cutting room floor so to speak.

Over the years I have come to this conclusion: Use the Tool for the Job. (Actually this works for Life in general too!!)

Sometimes I want to assemble on the T/L (Edward) Sometimes I want to Assemble VIA the Trimmer. But I don't use the Ins/Outs options - I just Scrub over the Clip in Trimmer and Drag to T/L - done. I find this both efficient and keeps with that all important viewer experience in keeping the video rolling . . Anything that keeps the narrative seamlessly rolling along from one scene to another is all I ask - that's why I am with VEgas and generally see that SCS are always - ALWAYS - trying out new ways to keep this most, or THE, most important part of editing improving, and that they are willing to engineer-up new ways of doing this.

A] Tool for the Job

and

B] Experiment with different ways with different Projects.

What can I say?

Grazie

Sorry to be late in contributing but I've only just come back from holiday --- which means more editing!

Although it is a "horses for courses" thing it's also a matter of personal preference (i.e. what you are used to). I tend to work from the Trimmer which I use as a form of Edit Decision List (EDL - a hangover from editing with film ---remember the smell of the glue and trying to keep the curly clips of cut film in order? How times have changed!)

I Batch Capture from the camera so that I have a number of shots relating to a particular place, scene or activity in one selection. I then play a single batch on the Trimmer and make frame accurate selections for transfer to the Timeline. It's easy (press A), especially as I sometimes find myself losing my place or, worse, getting the sequence wrong when editing on the Timeline. A big advantage of using this method is that you can use the Tab button to transfer either the video or the audio on its own, so avoiding the need to separately select and edit/delete on the audio track of the Timeline or allowing the audio from one shot to be placed elsewhere in the project.

Hope this helps rather than confuses.

Richard

I agree with you Richard: Trimmer every time (although coming from other NLEs, "trimmer" isn't a term that comes easily...)
- and yes, I do remember film splicers and having to scrape off the emulsion before applying the cement - and hoping the joins would last as they went through telecine...

I agree that everyone should use the method that works for THEM. I did NOT come from a film background so that extra window is generally extraneous to me. For others, it is a vitally important thing to have. Fortunately Vegas let's everyone work with their favorite method.

BTW, many people used to complain that Vegas didn't have the preview/trimmer window but there's always been a trimmer. It's just that from 8.0c forward the trimmer is now in a separate window instead of being docked with the other windows on the left and they've added a few new features to that window.

So, I suggest everyone try both methods, see which one they like best, and have fun editing!

...So, I suggest everyone try both methods, see which one they like best, and have fun editing!
Quite right, Edward! Some of us who've contributed to this thread use either or both timeline and trimmer editing, depending on which method works better/faster for a particular project.

One thing that hasn't come up in this thread is the theory of 3-point editing, a classic workflow that almost always necessitates the use of the trimmer, but yields big rewards.

In this technique, 3 points fully define any edit decision. Most often, the points are an In on the timeline (cursor location), an In on the (trimmer) source, and an Out on the source. If you visualize this, you'll realize that once you've defined these 3 points, the edit is done, and you're ready to move on to the next.

However, it doesn't need to be In/timeline and In/Out source. It can be In/Out timeline, and In/ or out from the source.

Editors cutting interaction that was shot in film-style (multiple runs of the action shot by a single camera) use this workflow, and for good reason. Like working on a flat-bed film editor, or with multiple VTR sources, it supports concepts of Bins and Reels. In particular, a Reel for us is a Clip. If our Clip is several minutes long, and we want a series of short timeline Events from it, checkerboarded with Events from other Clips, the trimmer will allow us to easily grab a short piece, move to a different clip, grab a short piece of it, then back to the first. Repeat to end...

Hmm... this is harder to write about than to demonstrate. If productivity matters, then workflow is king, and the trimmer supports a very robust workflow for some types of projects.

PS. We're all doing 3 point editing, even when dragging clips to the timeline or double-clicking to load to timeline at cursor. The cursor position is In/timeline, the clip start is the In/source, and the clip end is Out/source. From there, as we drag and trim on the timeline, we're adjusting those same points...

Hmm... this is harder to write about than to demonstrate.

Perhaps you could make a video illustrating it?

Maybe this will help.
Sony Creative Software - Training - Les Stroud: Trimmer As Source Window (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/video/video.asp?file=training/stroud/TrimmerAsSourceWindow&title=Training+-+Les+Stroud%3A+Trimmer+As+Source+Window&VideoPref=medwm)

Maybe this will help.
Sony Creative Software - Training - Les Stroud: Trimmer As Source Window (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/video/video.asp?file=training/stroud/TrimmerAsSourceWindow&title=Training+-+Les+Stroud%3A+Trimmer+As+Source+Window&VideoPref=medwm)
Thanks for that link, Mike.

Starting at 4:45, that tutorial is a good example of using cursor position and selections to define the 3 points.

(prior to 4:45 is good info on layout options for the V8c-V9 trimmer)

As Stroud points out towards the end of the clip, there's even a 4-point option "Fit to selection" that automagically adjusts playback rate of a source clip to match up In/source, Out/source into a timeline selection area.

Editors interested in the utmost speed in defining 3-point edits should also look at the keyboard shortcuts of i, o, a, and tab; that is - in, out, add to timeline, and toggle video/audio/both. Window focus gets a little tricky, but there are keyboard shortcuts for focus, too...

(edit: and beware of the "collapse loop region" setting in options, as Edward points out below you want this unchecked to work with the i and o keyboard shortcuts)

Maybe this will help.
Sony Creative Software - Training - Les Stroud: Trimmer As Source Window (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/video/video.asp?file=training/stroud/TrimmerAsSourceWindow&title=Training+-+Les+Stroud%3A+Trimmer+As+Source+Window&VideoPref=medwm)

Thanks, Mike. I had to download it and watch it offline because it required a plug-in to watch in the browser. But it is interesting and informative. I will have to watch it a couple more times to digest it fully.

Please note that unless things have changed (I haven't checked in 9 so they may have changed) that the "i" and "o" keys will not work if you've changed the option to "Collapse Loop Region" which is my preferred setting.


Ok, just tested it. the "i" key works fine with that setting but the "o" key does not work at all.

Quite right, Edward. I've added a note to my post above, since it was still editable.

The "Collapse loop region" setting is one that I'd like to have on a toolbar button...

I do a lot of narrative stuff, and I will regularly use the trimmer window.... depending on the length of the clip and what I will use from it. In some shooting situations, we might continuously roll as we capture three or four takes of a scene. In those situations, I can throw that clip in the trimmer, and select out the parts of each take I want to use to be intercut with other shots from different angles.

Another method that works great is to lay your master shot on the time line, which gives you a structure to cut to your closeups and overshoulder shots, etc, by laying those shots on a video track above the master as they are selected and pulled from the trimmer. You then can adjust lengths further and even split those shots as necessary.

One of the hardest things I had to learn about Vegas is there are 3 or more ways to do the same thing, and time and practice get you to a point were it all becomes second nature to look for the easiest track in a particular situation.

I think (as many have already mentionned) that it really depends on what works best for you.

Personally, I tend to do whatever feels most comfortable at that moment. One downside about editing directly on the timeline though, is that if you are working with a lot of clips at the same time, it can get quite cluttered. I like using the trimmer for this reason, but at times I also just dedicate a track as my "work area" and mute it, so that I have a space where I can rearange my clips without having to worry about where I put them. Don't know how much sense that makes, but it works for me lol :P.

Another thing I find helpful is using the trimmer to create subclips from longer clips, so that I never really have to go back and waste time searching for something in those clips. It can be a time consuming process, but when you're working on a long project with a lot of long clips, this technique can save you a load of time in the long run.

Another thing to consider is whether you could be using the space where the trimmer window is for something more useful. Often when I work on projects where there's a lot of audio work, I like to put the mixer in the place where the trimmer would usually go. Or when color correcting, I replace it with the scopes (vectorscope, histogram, etc.).

Again, it's all personal preference. Just one more reason why Vegas rocks!