Hey guys, I need to update my system pronto. I'm looking at this HP system: HP Pavilion Elite HPE-380t series | HP Official Store (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=desktops&series_name=HPE380t_series&a1=Category&v1=High%20performance#)

I would get it with:

Win 7 64 bit
Core i7-930 2.8Ghz Quad Core Processor
12GB DDR3-1066MHz RAM
3TB 7200 3GB/s (two 1.5TB HDD's)
1GB ATI Radeon HD 4850 GFX Card with two DVI outs
Blu-Ray Burner
DVD Drive
Wireless N, Bluetooth
TV Tuner
15-in-1 media card reader

Which comes to about $1800.

I'm currently using Sony Vegas and importing HDV. However, I may want to down the road get Adobe CS5. This particular PC doesn't have the graphics cards available as suggested on the Adobe website, but man, the ones they recommend to handle the mercury engine start at about $1000, which is out of my price range anyway.

My qualms about this setup is no 6GB/s SATA, no usb 3.0 (there is an option for this on the card reader, but with the gfx card I'm looking at it's not compatible apparently), only one firewire port in the back (and one on the card reader up front, though)

Granted, I don't do any heavy graphics editing or compositing as of right now, so perhaps I don't even need all that stuff. However, I'm wondering if the pc's a good deal, if I should look elsewhere, or just take the time and effort to construct a system from scratch. Also, they have an option for a 1TB RAID 0 (2x500GB drives) or a 500GB RAID 1 (2x500GB). Are either of those worth getting? I believe the pc only has two hdd slots, and 500gb isn't going to cut it. I do have an external eSATA hdd around, so I could pull it out, but I'd prefer more internal storage. Thanks!

The setup that you're looking at is less than ideal because it offers only one single drive volume (or more specifically, HP configures all of the hard drives as a single RAID array with no way at all whatsoever to configure that system to have a non-RAID system drive with more than one physical hard drive installed unless you opt for the most expensive option of two 1.5TB hard drives - and if you do get a configuration with two 1.5TB hard drives, the two drives had to be completely separate volumes due to Intel's RAID controller being incapable of booting from a volume that's larger than 2TB). And if anything, a single RAID 0 array for everything (as configured by HP) is even slower than a single HDD for video editing! Using a RAID 0 in a video editing system requires a minimum of three physical hard drives: A single non-RAID drive for your operating system and programs plus the two-drive RAID 0 array for your video work files. However, the HP Pavilion case has only two internal 3.5" drive bays - and if a two-hard-drive configuration is ordered, the case offers only one accessible 5.25" drive bay and no 3.5" bays available for expansion.

So yes, unless you opt for the most expensive hard drive option (two 1.5TB hard drives formatted as JBOD) that HP Pavilion is not recommended for video editing. All of the other options for that system besides the single RAID array or the dual-1.5TB drives are single physical hard drives.

I've looked at the HP Elite series, and decided not to go with them for video editing. Mostly due to the small power supply, and limited expandabiliy.

As you mentioned there is no Sata III support, but they do now offer USB3.0 support via PCIe card.

However, only having 2 hard drives and not being able to fit an GTX 2xx or 4xx, plus sound card, plus additional PCIe for either a Matrox or Grass Valley type board kind of turned me away from them as well.

They may be decent for work in Photoshop or Illustrator with the i7 and 12 GB RAM and 2 1.5TB HDs @ 7200 RPM... or even SD video editing... but not HD I would guess.

Thanks guys, but you didn't give me alternatives. Where is a good place to get a computer that won't break the bank? I really can't spend much more than about $2000.

The problem with the big-name computer companies is that they sometimes charge you too much for too little (hardware-wise). Pre-builts are the most guilty of this: They charge you too much for low-end components. This is so that they can pile on a bunch of software that you might not need or want (including bloatware).

If you want to keep your system lean (software-wise), you might have to build a system yourself using "off-the-shelf" components (motherboard, power supply, case, processor, memory, graphics card, hard drives, optical drive, etc.)

The reason I'm wary of building a system is that the components might not play well together. That seems to be what the benefit of going the mac route is. I can't imagine I can just go to newegg and start picking components. Or can I?

You might want to take a look at this sponsor provided resource:

Videoguys Blog - Videoguys' System Recommendations for Video Editing (http://www.videoguys.com/Guide/E/Videoguys+System+recommendations+for+Video+Editing/0x4aebb06ba071d2b6a2cd784ce243a6c6.aspx)

Thanks for the links, Bill. I had actually seen those before, which is why I looked at Dell and HP first. Dell's stuff is pretty old tech so I went over to HP, which I had to compromise on a couple of things, and their customer service was useless as they couldn't answer any tech questions. I just added all the components to a whole build on newegg, and it's looking pretty sick. I just need monitors, and I don't think newegg has what I need. I'm going to make a separate thread about it.

Also, is it necessary to buy separate fans for the memory, processor, hard drive, case, etc.? I'm starting to reconsider building. For almost the same specs I'd be spending pretty much the same at newegg without actually having to configure the thing myself, which I've never done.

You will have to do one of three things:

1. Buy a prebuilt from HP or another manufacturer and compromise. Might not get it exactly the way you want it, but that's how it goes.

2. Pay a premium for a custom builder to build it the way you want it.

3. Do it yourself. It's scary, but doable. The question is though... do you have someone available to help you if something does go wrong?

For fans, you don't need them for every little component. The main things to be concerned about are adequate case fan airflow, a killer fan/heatsink combo for the CPU, and of course the video card, which usually has an adequate fan integrated.

For the CPU, look at the Noctua D12 or D14 (if you have the space). You'll thank me (actually, thanks should be transferred to Harm, as I got the advice from something he wrote). The stock Intel cooler is barely adequate when you push the processor hard. Get a full tower case. I usually use CoolerMaster for builds for myself and others, unless they are dead set on another brand. They offer great airflow and are constructed nicely. The case most likely will come with mounting spots for 120mm (or possibly bigger) fans, but won't come with all the fans. Check out the manufacturer's site to see details on how many fans and what size. Then add those to your cart, making sure to look for ones that are quiet if possible. You get what you pay for.

CPU: You don't need to spend $1000. You don't even need to spend half of that. Get a GTX 470 or 480.

This is what I've compiled so far in my wish list on newegg...I mainly went with the top rated items for each unit, unless there was something I didn't like about it, then I dropped down a level or two:

Cooler Master Centurion 534 ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0
EVGA GeForce GTS 250 1GB 256-big DDR3 Video Card
Corsair 750W ATX12V Power Supply
Intel Core i7-930
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series DDR3 Ram, 12GB (6x2)
Samsung Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" 3TB (1TB system, 1TBx2 RAID 0)
LITE-ON 12x Blu-ray Burner SATA
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Scythe SY1225SL12M 120mm Slipstream fan (1x2)

Thoughts?

That case is too small in my opinion. It would be a VERY tight fit (if at all) to get one of the bigger CPU coolers in it. You want one closer to 9" wide, not 8". Also, mid tower just isn't big enough if you want proper airflow when running multiple hard drives (which video editors do). I would suggest the CoolerMaster Cosmos, HAF 932, or ATCS 840.

Maybe bump the PSU to 850W. Corsair is a good brand.

If you are going to spend that money, put in a proper video card. GTX, preferably a 285, 470, or 480.

Some hardware manufacturers that specialize in video products don't recommend (or even support) Windows 7 Home. Pro is only $40 more if you buy it OEM from Newegg.

Add this cooler: Noctua NH-U12DX

RAM: Not sure about GSkill. I don't have much experience with them. I use Corsair and find it works very nicely with Asus boards. I'd look for Corsair XMS3 with a CAS Latency of 7 and a speed of 1600 or higher.

I also run a SSD for my OS drive. It's wonderful.

Patrick

If you are going to be editing with Adobe Premiere CS5, you might want to look at this video card:

Newegg.com - MSI N250GTS TwinFrozr 1G OC GeForce GTS 250 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127445)

It's the MSI GT250 Twin Frozr. It has dual fans to keep the video card cool which is important when using the Mercury Playback Engine in the hardware mode in Premiere CS5.

A standard GT250 will have a fan, but you MAY have cooling problems during playback and rendering.

That case is too small in my opinion. It would be a VERY tight fit (if at all) to get one of the bigger CPU coolers in it. You want one closer to 9" wide, not 8". Also, mid tower just isn't big enough if you want proper airflow when running multiple hard drives (which video editors do). I would suggest the CoolerMaster Cosmos, HAF 932, or ATCS 840.

Maybe bump the PSU to 850W. Corsair is a good brand.

If you are going to spend that money, put in a proper video card. GTX, preferably a 285, 470, or 480.

Some hardware manufacturers that specialize in video products don't recommend (or even support) Windows 7 Home. Pro is only $40 more if you buy it OEM from Newegg.

Add this cooler: Noctua NH-U12DX

RAM: Not sure about GSkill. I don't have much experience with them. I use Corsair and find it works very nicely with Asus boards. I'd look for Corsair XMS3 with a CAS Latency of 7 and a speed of 1600 or higher.

I also run a SSD for my OS drive. It's wonderful.

A lot of this sounds like overkill for my needs. I don't have an unlimited budget. I mean, an SSD? Those things are a ripoff right now. I use Vegas 9, never heard of an issue with Win7 Home. The graphics cards you mentioned are expensive. As far as the case, I can't imagine needing that many drive bays. I had planned on having 3 1TB drives, which is a lot. The Cooler Master HAF 932 I'm looking at has 6 5.25" bays and 5 3.5" bays. Way way more than I'll ever use. Does that case come with the fans, or do those have to be purchased separately?

This is the problem I run into when shopping for a workstation. I'm currently cutting on a Core 2 Quad Dell Inspiron 518 to an external hdd attached by usb 2.0. It's not the greatest, but it's useable. I need to upgrade my system so it's more stable (I'm on Vista, yuck) and more efficient. Yet, the advice I get is if I get a computer under $20,000 it'll be worthless for my needs, which as of right now amount to at most wedding videos. I work for myself, and don't do any 3D modeling intense graphical type stuff. I just feel like a 6' case with an alien on the front, flashing red strobe lights, and propellers isn't what I really need.

A lot of this sounds like overkill for my needs. I don't have an unlimited budget. I mean, an SSD? Those things are a ripoff right now. I use Vegas 9, never heard of an issue with Win7 Home. The graphics cards you mentioned are expensive. As far as the case, I can't imagine needing that many drive bays. I had planned on having 3 1TB drives, which is a lot. The Cooler Master HAF 932 I'm looking at has 6 5.25" bays and 5 3.5" bays. Way way more than I'll ever use. Does that case come with the fans, or do those have to be purchased separately?

This is the problem I run into when shopping for a workstation. I'm currently cutting on a Core 2 Quad Dell Inspiron 518 to an external hdd attached by usb 2.0. It's not the greatest, but it's useable. I need to upgrade my system so it's more stable (I'm on Vista, yuck) and more efficient. Yet, the advice I get is if I get a computer under $20,000 it'll be worthless for my needs, which as of right now amount to at most wedding videos. I work for myself, and don't do any 3D modeling intense graphical type stuff. I just feel like a 6' case with an alien on the front, flashing red strobe lights, and propellers isn't what I really need.

The HAF 932 comes with fans. And the reason as to why a relatively large case is recommended for a video editing system is that smaller cases either allow the internal components to completely block all airflow (and thus your system would consistently overheat in the middle of your editing) or have very poor cooling capabilities (the worst cases can only accomodate two 80mm fans, which are extremely tiny by modern standards, and all of the 80mm fans on the market are either extremely ineffective or extremely loud and noisy). And that's not to mention that a smaller case cannot accomodate much beyond the freebie boxed CPU cooler for CPU cooling (and that stock CPU cooler is barely adequate for the CPUs at even stock speeds).

For the record, that Centurion 534 that you've been considering can only accomodate two fans (one front and one rear), which is not quite enough for a very hot-running CPU such as the i7. Combine this with the barely-adequate stock CPU cooling, and you may very well end up with a build that might throttle back (downclock) or shut down on you in the middle of an encode or transcode due to thermal issues.

And none of the configurations that we've been recommending cost anywhere close to $20,000. However, depending on where you're going to get the components, the upgrades that we've suggested might push the total cost of your build to just over your firm $2000 maximum budget.

A lot of this sounds like overkill for my needs. I don't have an unlimited budget. I mean, an SSD? Those things are a ripoff right now. I use Vegas 9, never heard of an issue with Win7 Home. The graphics cards you mentioned are expensive. As far as the case, I can't imagine needing that many drive bays. I had planned on having 3 1TB drives, which is a lot. The Cooler Master HAF 932 I'm looking at has 6 5.25" bays and 5 3.5" bays. Way way more than I'll ever use. Does that case come with the fans, or do those have to be purchased separately?

This is the problem I run into when shopping for a workstation. I'm currently cutting on a Core 2 Quad Dell Inspiron 518 to an external hdd attached by usb 2.0. It's not the greatest, but it's useable. I need to upgrade my system so it's more stable (I'm on Vista, yuck) and more efficient. Yet, the advice I get is if I get a computer under $20,000 it'll be worthless for my needs, which as of right now amount to at most wedding videos. I work for myself, and don't do any 3D modeling intense graphical type stuff. I just feel like a 6' case with an alien on the front, flashing red strobe lights, and propellers isn't what I really need.

I apologize... I was just trying to give you real world experience from someone who has built a fair share of NLE editing systems and wanted to maximize the balance of value per dollar with editing system performance. Proceed with the way you were wanting to build it... it's not my machine =)

I just feel like a 6' case with an alien on the front, flashing red strobe lights, and propellers isn't what I really need.
Now you are just being ridiculous. I suggested 3 different options for cases, knowing that each had it's own "look" to it. You can't possibly tell me the ATCS 840 has an alien and flashing strobes and such.
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/upload/product/2870/intro01.jpg
And even then, if it did, I would take a big case with an alien on it and working components than a small case with a bunch of fried components from overheating. It's a lot easier to disable a LED in a fan than it is to enable a dead CPU or hard drive.

I mean, an SSD? Those things are a ripoff right now.
All in the eye of the beholder. As an OS drive they can't be beat. I have an 80GB Intel, which now costs $215. While you may initially think "dang, that's expensive!", you have to realize what you are gaining from that.

First and foremost is performance. They absolutely SMOKE a standard hard drive. Windows loads in seconds, programs pop up responsively when launching them, instead of waiting a half minute to load (Premiere in particular).

Next comes reliability. SSDs don't have moving mechanical parts that can break. It really sucks when you lose your OS drive and have to spend all day reinstalling everything and tweaking program settings when you are in the middle of a deadline for a client.

Other factors to figure are that SSDs generate much less heat and are smaller, allowing more airflow around them (important) to get to the other components of the system.

Randall is right on with what he said as well. In the end, we are just trying to help you build a system with the capacity of running CS5 comfortably, one of your requests.

I didn't catch that all you are doing is wedding videos. If you don't need the options that CS5 offers, then you don't need to build a system capable of running it. Buy a stock i5 system from Dell or HP or what not and buy Edius 5 for your NLE. Problem solved.

I was exaggerating about the $20,000, although if you go to Apple's website and fully max out a Mac Pro it's over $20,000...and that's still without a monitor!

With the mobo I'm looking at is the RAID built-in, or would I need to get a separate RAID controller?

I'd also like a wireless n LAN card and bluetooth built in, what do you recommend?

btw, Craig, I didn't mean to jump on you, I'm just getting frustrated. I also didn't just mean you, but anytime you ask an enthusiast for advice they usually go way overboard. I'm just running Vegas now, but said I may want to in the future go to CS5. Most of my editing projects are minor, but am trying to get into other stuff like short film, commercials, etc., so I definitely am looking for a machine that would be able to handle all of that. I don't plan on doing anything anywhere near Hollywood level, though, so I don't need the absolute fastest system that money can buy.

In any event, I do appreciate all the help =)

Understood. You may call me an enthusiast, I call me someone who's been around the block with building computers and knows what works and what doesn't. I've also been down the road of spending more money than I would have liked because the stuff I bought 6 months ago doesn't play nice (not powerful enough) for the new software or new camera's codec. Just trying to help you out there, I wish you could understand that. Premiere is a different beast, and you have to build to accomodate it.

Luckily HDV really isn't that much of a burden on newer software programs. You can get by on what you spec'd if you plan on sticking with HDV and Vegas.

You said you have an 80GB SSD, but in the videoguys tutorial for building a pc they say to get at least a 1TB for your OS/program files. Are you putting software and whatnot on other drives?

Here's my two cents worth.

For background: I mostly do multi-cam weddings & events and single cam legal video. PPro CS5 is my editor of choice. (I have the Production Premium Suite). I sourced my system from NewEgg with an I7/920, 12gB Corsair RAM, GTX260 video card, Hitachi 7200 rpm drives (1 system drive and 2 in an on-board Raid 0), PC Power & Cooling 750 w power supply, Pioneer BR 205, Win 7/64. My problems with PPro are with longer multi-cam projects where I may be running 5 streams of HDV and AVCHD. Because I may have three or four projects going at a time, I got an external GSpeed 4TB Raid that runs off a PCI Raid Card. I have a large and plain Antec case for which bought 2 extra 120mm fans.

Based on experience with my set up, here's what I think I have learned about building a good basic system for Adobe CS4/5.

1. Assembling your own system is not hard. If you follow a proven recipe like the VIdoguys DIY recipe and you understand how to install Win7 to a new system, it will work right away and be far more useful to you than an HP or Dell.

2. NewEgg is a good source for builders because you can read a lot of reviews before you buy a component. Buy only components with lots of very positive reviews.

3. For the CS5 Mercury Playback Engine, you do not need a $1000+ video card but you will need at least an multi-GPU nVidia card with more than 700 mb of VRAM. It is very easy to make them work with CS5 and the MPE even when they aren't on the list. See the thread on this in the Adobe Forums for how easy it is to do this and the discussions of which nVidia cards will and will not work. How to make Premiere CS5 work with GTX 295 and possibly all 200 GPUs As a practical matter, a suitable video card will probably cost somewhere around $200. Additionally, such cards will allow you to run two monitors. Some people (me, for instance) find a two monitor set-up makes it much easier to work with Premiere and Vegas.

4. You do not need a solid state drive but you do need to get at least three hard drives: one for a system drive and two for a RAID 0 which will be where you put and keep your a/v files. A 1TB system drive may seem like overkill but: (a) they are cheap (NewEgg was recently selling the 1TB Hitachis deskstars for $60) and (b) you want to keep have a relatively large proportion of open space on the system drive (drives slow down as they fill up. I started with a 300gB system drive when using CS4, but after few upgrades and some new software, it suddenly was 75% full and CS5 was slowing down. Plus the bigger drive gives you someplace to park things when you might want to render something to a different drive than the one with your editing files. (Say, for example, you wanted to make a DVD disk image for burning; you have the image saved to the system drive so you are not trying to write the file to the same disk you are reading from).

5. Do get a full size case. Regardless of whether you want to fill up all the hard drive bays, you definitely want the airflow and space around the components. Videocards are getting long and huge and the fit can be a problem with many mid-size cases. Even with a big case you may find that the back end of your video card will be butting up close to your hard drives. I don't have a specific recommendation as my Antec case model is no longer available.

6. Do get at least a 750w power supply. You'll need the power and the larger fan also helps with cooling the case.

7. After-market CPU cooling kits are nice and many are better than the stock ones that come with your CPU. However, you can get by without one if you do not overclock your CPU and if you use something like Arctic Silver compound. It is cheap and even Radio Shack carries it. Apply a coating between the cooling fins/fan set up and the top of the CPU.

8. Do buy at least a couple of 120mm case fans if they do not come with your case. Read the reviews on NewEgg to find ones that most people find to be good ones.


All that being said, I want to ask why you are planning on going to CS5? If you think it has tools that you need, have you tried working with it to see if those tools will do what you think you want to do and how hard or easy it is for you to use them? I happen to like PPRo a lot but it works easily for me and I find Vegas difficult. If you are happy with Vegas, the machine requirements are less stringent and your equipment choices are broader. With your budget range, I also have to ask if you are upgrading from earlier Adobe products? If not, a CS5 package can be nearly as expensive as the computer you will be building. If you are looking for something other than Vegas that works well with, say AVCHD and also does multi-cam work and could be used for the kinds of projects you were thinking about, you might want to consider Edius as another poster suggested. It will be a less expensive package and, again, the equipment requirements are less stringent. Try downloading a trial version and see how it works for you.

Right now I'm using up 61GB on this drive. I have Win 7 Pro 64 bit, CS5 Production Premium suite, and software for web development as well as a few odds and ends (Google Earth, Quicktime, etc).

As long as you are using the machine for video editing and you don't need to install a bunch of crap like games and what not, you'll be fine. Don't store documents and photos and music in your user profile (my documents/my pictures/desktop/etc), keep them on a separate drive (not your video drive). I keep all mine on a mirrored array (2x1.5TB). You don't need to be so robust, I just do that to keep my data a bit more safe. It also helps that all my drives except for my OS are in an external rackmounted 12 bay chassis.

Oh... and your raid question. That board will be able to push the drives you desire. Any reason why you went for the Premium version instead of the -E version? That could save you a bit of money.

And lastly, my suggestion on SSD was just that. I wasn't saying it was a requirement, I was just saying I find it very useful in my system.

I have already posted this in another thread, but I will repeat it here. Here is the system I built last month with a Core i7 930:

Case: Antec 1200
Power Supply: BFG 1200 watts
Processor: Core i7 930
Mobo: Gigabyte: EX58 UD-5
HD: Four (4) WD Caviar Black 1 TB 64mb cache
Lite-On DVD/CD Drive (dual layer
Ram: Corsair 12 GB DDR3 PC3-12800 1600Mhz
Video: Zotac nVidia GTX 285
Cooling: Noctua NH D14

Total cost: Just a little over $2,000.00

I easily overclocked it to to 3.85, and it is running stable on Windows 7 Pro and Snow Leopard with low temps.

Now, certain of these parts were chosen because I wanted to try Premiere Pro CS5 and at the same time have a box running Final Cut Pro under Snow Leopard (basically a dual boot / dual OS system ... MAC + Windows.)

The GTX 285 (now discontinued) was on Adobe's approved Cuda list and it also works with Snow Leopard. The Gigabyte EX58 UD5 is a board that works extremely well in both MAC and Windows systems.

So, for a little over $2,000.00 I have a 3.85GHz octocore monster that runs Premiere Pro and FCP with ease. Will it be obsolete in a year or two? Probably not totally obsolete ... but certainly surpassed. However, it doesn't have to cost you $20,000.00 to get serious performance.

Bill,

Did you run into any issues getting Snow Leopard on the system? I was thinking of doing this soon.

No. None whatsoever. However, with that said, a considerable amount of time and research went into the project beforehand to make sure the build and installation were as painless as possible. Getting OSX to run on a home-made, non MAC machine can be an exercise in frustration. Suffice it say, that it is a very hardware specific undertaking. You have to decide in advance which OSX installation program you will use and then follow the supported hardware list for that program. Also, it is slightly more complicated when you also want to have a dual boot machine. However, at the end of the day, it certainly can be done with relatively few headaches, if you take the time and do your homework in advance. There are some very good resources out there to help you. If you need more info send me a PM.

Craig said: "As long as you are using the machine for video editing and you don't need to install a bunch of crap like games and what not, you'll be fine. Don't store documents and photos and music in your user profile (my documents/my pictures/desktop/etc), keep them on a separate drive (not your video drive)."

Since the OP is looking at PPro CS5, I think that this is an excellent point that bears re-emphasizing and also points up a good reason to have an extra hard drive or two in your system. (So maybe you do wind up using more of that big case than you might have thought.) Keeping stuff out of your Windows "user profile" files is especially important when working with Adobe products because. Adobe's default location for media cache files is in your user folders (in Win 7 it will be something like c:\users\AccountName\appdata\roaming\Adobe\Common ...).

Stuff builds up in there very quickly and eats hard drive space and system performance like you would not believe.

So if you get PPro (that is if you buy it or get a trial download instead), you should immediately go into its Preferences menu (under the drop down "edit" menu. Select "Media" and check the box for "save media cache files next to originals when possible" and put your Media Cache Data Base elsewhere, too.

That same buried menu has a button for cleaning out your media cache files. It is a good idea to use it periodically.

With PPro, you also will find it very helpful to have your "scratch disk" locations on the same drive/raid with your project files unless you've got another fast non-system disk or two. I didn't mention it above, but I do have a non-system drive dedicated to scratch files, and find that it helps with editing responsiveness on longer projects. In no event do you do want PPro putting scratch disks in your user profile files on your system disk.

Do get a full size case. Regardless of whether you want to fill up all the hard drive bays, you definitely want the airflow and space around the components. Videocards are getting long and huge and the fit can be a problem with many mid-size cases. Even with a big case you may find that the back end of your video card will be butting up close to your hard drives. I don't have a specific recommendation as my Antec case model is no longer available.

This is important. In fact, I can no longer recommend most of the Antec-branded gaming cases because they are cramped on the inside even though they look big on the outside (specifically, the permanently-integrated drive cage gets in the way in those cases, and the cases can barely fit a typical X58 motherboard as a result). With my Nine Hundred, I had to completely remove the motherboard just to connect additional internal SATA hard drives to the front-edge-mounted ports. And it offers barely enough room (length-wise) to comfortably fit my current HD 5770 in there without having the cables and connectors bent or pinched by the card and case.

Antec seems to have good quality in their cases, but their design/functionality I don't care for. I find the CoolerMaster to be a right combination of price, quality, and ease of use. I really like their higher end cases that have the slight out motherboard tray. Makes life a lot easier if you need access to something. And they have great airflow and plenty of fan mounting options. My last 5 builds for video editors have been with them. If I ran a tower I would have used them too, but I'm running a 4U rackmount. My case is stuffed, but I don't have any hard drives other than an SSD and the Noctua 14 really knocks out serious cooling for the CPU/RAM area.

So, I was going to get this same PC for CS5 and I don't understand why this isn't a good rig for editing.

I work with the Stanford film program and we edit 1080p footage with Final Cut Pro on 21.5 Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM iMacs.and they run perfectly.

This HP seems like quite the upgrade from that...

So, I was going to get this same PC for CS5 and I don't understand why this isn't a good rig for editing.

I work with the Stanford film program and we edit 1080p footage with Final Cut Pro on 21.5 Core 2 Duo
4GB RAM iMacs.and they run perfectly.

This HP seems like quite the upgrade from that...

The problem that I see is that unless you opt for the most expensive drive option (two 1.5TB SATA hard drives), HP will only format all of the hard drives as one single volume (in other words, you cannot get the HDDs as separate volumes from HP even with two HDDs installed except as described above). What's more, the HP's case cannot accommodate more than two physical HDDs. That forces you to use external hard drives if you want more than two drives in that system - but unless you opt to add in a SATA RAID controller card yourself, you're stuck with USB for the external hard drives because HP does not offer eSATA ports at all on that system even at extra cost. And using a single hard drive volume for absolutely everything (as HP configures its systems) is worst for video editing no matter the system: At worst, you could end up with an i7 that performs much slower than even a single-core Celeron with the proper three-or-more-HDD setup because the hard drive itself will sit and wait. (In fact, my first PPBM4 test under CS4 with everything on a single drive performed almost as glacially slow as the very slowest systems with far older and slower CPUs in the PPBM4 list.)

In addition, like another member stated the HP case is not deep enough to accommodate any higher-end graphics cards. Even an HD 5770 is a tight squeeze in that case.

In other words, it's not the core components that's the problem; it's the available hard drive configurations and the extremely cramped case that are the weak points in this particular HP "build-to-order" home system.

Alright, but why do the iMacs run so well while editing?

While the iMacs can be great computers, I have to ask, "run so well editing what with what on which iMac?" Editing on an iMac strikes me as similar to editing on a laptop (albeit one with an amazing display screen.)

So, if you are talking about using iMacs with single hard drives for editing single tracks of video with iMovie, not a problem. You can do similar things with Windows and Mac laptops, too. But are you working with FCP or PPro or Avid? That can be a big problem without lots of add-ons, which kind of negates the simplicity of the iMac concept. If you know somebody who is using either of FCP or PPro with an iMac and is happy with it, get some time with him or her to see how things work and see if the workflow would be acceptable to you. There are people who happily edit on a limited laptops while many others of us would go crazy trying to do our work with that kind of computer.

For anybody who feels sensitive about the Mac vs. PC thing, I'm not commenting on that, at all. We're talking about workstation design here.

My observation of the Mac video editing is a bit limited --- I'm in rural area where there aren't many people at all, let alone folks who edit video --- but both of the Mac editors whom I know have systems with the kinds of large cases, good ventilation, multiple hard drives, nVidia graphics cards, etc. that Randall was talking about for Windows systems. Whether we work on a Mac or PC, we need that kind of system to edit effectively.

We use Core 2 Duo's with 4 GB Ram. 1080p Footage on multiple tracks in Final Cut Pro.

Is the one Hard drive thing just a matter of space? If so, I have an external hard drive as well I can use.

But the HP seems like a great deal for a very powerful pc capable of running cs5 without a problem.

The one hard drive thing is not a matter of space.

To be sure, it is a good thing to keep lots of open space on your system drive because your apps run faster and better when you do. At least with Windows-based systems.

Having a separate media drive is a performance issue. When you've got everything on the same drive, you are reading and writing huge amounts of data at the same time you are trying to use the drive for system functions. This often results in your video looking choppy and audio stuttering as the system tries to do everything from a single hard drive. Kind of like trying to use the same pipe to supply and drain water from a sink. There's a ton written on this, both here and elsewhere. You might start with the honorable Harm Millard's "generic guideline for disk setup" at http://forums/adobe.com/thread/662972.

Alright, I get it. Thanks.

Does anyone have a suggestion for a computer that is already made? HP, Dell, whatever.

Thanks!

Does anyone have a suggestion for a computer that is already made? HP, Dell, whatever.

AFAIK none of the pre-builts that I've looked at come with more than one single HDD standard. And often their cases cannot accommodate more than two HDDs - nor can their cases accommodate even some mid-range graphics cards, let alone the extra-long high-end graphics cards. A high-end graphics card and three or more HDDs configured as two or more volumes are necessary for effective video editing.

Moreover, the cases of the pre-builts have little to no cooling capability due to the OEM's desire to both cut costs (to themselves) and reduce noise. (To use as an example, a pre-built sold at a big-box superstore that I looked at recently has a hood which redirects the air coming into the tower to the CPU, with no other intake fan or vents whatsoever, and then tries to exhaust all of the hot air building up inside the case through the PSU (which I have already known that the PSU fan is only good for keeping the inside of the PSU itself from becoming overly hot)!) Unfortunately, this results in a greatly increased potential for overheating due to the lack of air circulation. In addition, most of the pre-builts are housed in cases that are extremely cramped on the inside that their innards have almost no room for the air inside to circulate (the ones in mini-tower cases are especially notorious for this). As a result, don't be surprised that the pre-built slows down greatly in performance or shuts down completely in the middle of an HD transcode.

Alright, I get it. Thanks.

Does anyone have a suggestion for a computer that is already made? HP, Dell, whatever.

Thanks!


As far as I can tell, all of the Dell and HP machines in the iMac budget range are ones that have the downsides that Randall listed. You've got to spend a lot more money with Dell or HP to solve those problems.

An iMac is not un-usable, but you would definitely need to get some large capacity external firewire 800 drives and be careful in picking your editing program and source material and probably would need to work with intermediates like Cineform. Factor those things into your budget and plans.

I'm now recalling reading some recent posts by a DVinfo member who described the plus and minuses of doing professional work including commercials with an iMac using external firewire drives. I think it was Shaun Roemisch (sp??) and you might do a search for those posts. I don't know how well that kind of set-up would work when you go to edit AVCHD without intermediates. Also, I'm guessing that the iMacs at your college are using some kind of high-speed networked media storage rather than their internal hard drives. So read Shaun's posting about how he put his system together.

The reason we encourage the DIY approach is that: (a) it is not difficult; (b) you get a lot more usable machine; (c) and it fits the limited budgets that many of us have. With a budget in the iMac range, I think a build-your-own PC is about the only way to go and you wind up with a lot more usable capacity in the machine than you can get by buying an HP or Dell in that price range.