Hello,

in case this has been answered before if somebody could point me to that threat that would be great; using the search in this forum I could not find anything similar.

Why we are using the nanoFlash as playout is not so much the point I want to discuss here. I do use purpose designed playout equipment often and I do know that the nanoFlash is not intended to be used primarily as a playout device in a live event.
If the budget does not allow for a proper playback system (or two of them) then nano is still better than playing no videos or having no backup at all ;-)

What I have tried so far:

Approach 1:
- Recording the main formats I'm playing back with the nanoFlash (525i59.54, 625i50, 720p50, 1080i50), then importing these files into Final Cut Pro 6 / 7 and let FCP match the sequence settings.
- Remove the test clip and put the desired output file in the timeline
- Export Quicktime Movie at "Current settings"
- Move the resulting .mov file with the finder on the CF card, stick it into the nF, Playback the file in the nF menu
- Output stays black, the output format on the nF display is displayed as 480p59 (no matter what the format actually is, e.g. different frame rate or different resolution always = 480p59), but it is still black. There is no sync on the devices connected to the output like an AJA Converter (green light for discovered, valid (HD-)SDI-Signal) or the ImagePro HD ("no input")

Approach 2:
- Dragging the files generated in Approach 1 into Compressor 3.5 which is supposed to have a "compression recognition engine" to build presets by encoded files > it crashed, no matter what format I use..

Approach 3:
- Generate .mov files with Episode Encoder Pro with the according XDCAM HD422 * (50 Mbit/s) format with the * being the framerate / resolution required (525i59.54, 625i50, 720p50, 1080i50)
- Same results than in Approach 1.

Approach 4: Taking the HD files from Approach 1 and using the FileConverter tool from CD.
> Worked! But only with HD files and I need to rewrite the files after exporting them from FCP..

Other comments:
- Tried to find the differences between the files with MediaInfo. I would always have several differences between the files I create and the file the tool from CD creates.
- I played with the audio and made it 2x 24bit as this was what came off the nF. No difference in the result..
- SD mov files with the right codec (XDCAM HD422) would give an error in the tool from CD. What I end up using is an HD file with the framerate I need (e.g. 1080i59.94) and then connecting an AJA HD-SD converter (to create 525i59.94).


What I would like to do:
Generate the files using either Final Cut Export Quicktime Movie / Export Quicktime Conversion / Export Compressor. After the rendering is done there is no further step required, just dragging the files with the finder to the flash card and inserting the card into the nanoFlash.
I'm willing to use a tool / plugin like MXF4Mac etc. if that is what it takes.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Hello Tobias,
This is Andy with Convergent Design, I think your overall simplest way to accomplish what you need is if you had a Black Magic Video Card, or any Video Card that you could play out SDI from your Mac. This would allow you to Rerecord your finished Timeline from Final Cut Pro, in the format you desire, and then playback would be solid.

We suggestion to use the CD converter tool available on our website for copying files back onto a CF Card, using the "non-fragment copy" due to Mac OS can fragment files during the copy process.

Downloads | Convergent Design | Professional Video Recorders and Converters (http://www.convergent-design.com/Downloads/tabid/1650/Default.aspx)

Either way, It should work seamlessly with the nano Flash, as well as there shouldn't too much re-compression. with this method.

I think your overall simplest way to accomplish what you need is if you had a Black Magic Video Card, or any Video Card that you could play out SDI from your Mac. This would allow you to Rerecord your finished Timeline from Final Cut Pro, in the format you desire, and then playback would be solid. .


I'd second that. It's what those of us on PC do when we have to get back to a KiPro...

AJA makes the IO Express, which is a smaller box...

I don't know enough about Matrox or BM's product lines to know which product you should be looking at...

Hello Tobias,
This is Andy with Convergent Design, I think your overall simplest way to accomplish what you need is if you had a Black Magic Video Card, or any Video Card that you could play out SDI from your Mac. This would allow you to Rerecord your finished Timeline from Final Cut Pro, in the format you desire, and then playback would be solid.

We suggestion to use the CD converter tool available on our website for copying files back onto a CF Card, using the "non-fragment copy" due to Mac OS can fragment files during the copy process.

Downloads | Convergent Design | Professional Video Recorders and Converters (http://www.convergent-design.com/Downloads/tabid/1650/Default.aspx)

Either way, It should work seamlessly with the nano Flash, as well as there shouldn't too much re-compression. with this method.

Which particular Download Andy?

Ron

Hi Guys,
I use the Nanoflash as a feeder and recorder to my Tricaster for live events. I have used FCP to output the finished timeline to the Nanoflash using FileConverter it works well. I dual record my presentations to the Tricaster and the Nanoflash so should I have a hardware failure I am able to still complete the presentation. I have now found it's just as quick and easy to record to the Nanoflash and Tricaster via SDI with little to no quality loss in vision.

Which particular Download Andy?

Ron

Hey Ron,

Sorry if I did not specify

File Converter 1.5 (Mac), XDCAM EX / XDCAM 422, Quicktime MOV to MXF[.zip, 200 K] [posted 12-Apr-10]

Found on our Downloads Page

Downloads | Convergent Design | Professional Video Recorders and Converters (http://www.convergent-design.com/Downloads/tabid/1650/Default.aspx)

would be the link that you are looking for

-Andy

Hello,

- Output stays black, the output format on the nF display is displayed as 480p59 (no matter what the format actually is, e.g. different frame rate or different resolution always = 480p59), but it is still black.

What I do is exporting my timeline in FCP with Quicktime as a XDCAM 422 file. The size of the file is much smaller than the elsewhere stated 30GB. I copy it to a CF card using the CD file converter. As far as I can see this is the procedure to follow. However, I also get the 480p59 indication in the NF display and no picture on the screen. Where do I go wrong?

Dear Cees,

Are you attempting to use our File Converter for an HD or SD file?

At this time, late Sunday night, I think that our File Converter only supports HD files.

I can check in the morning.

dear Dan,

It is a HD file, 1920 x 1080.

Cees

Dear Cees,

Are you using our latest version of the File Converter, version 1.6?

I will have our Support Department contact you.

Dear Dan,

I downloaded the file converter this weekend, so it will be the latets version. I will just wait for your Support Department. There is no real pressure, just want to get it working.

Cees

Hi,

if you have originally recorded nanoFlash material that you wish to copy to a CF card for playing on the nanoFlash:
> you can use the "non-fragmented copy" option out to a formatted CF card.

If you have material edited in Final Cut Pro:
> in FCP, export the footage File->Export->as Quicktime movie, with an XDCAM profile (preferably XDCAM 4:2:2)
(do not export as 720p24, 25, or 30 - nanoFlash can not play these formats)
> using our FileConverter, use the "Convert" option, choose the formatted card as the destination (for edited footage, this step must be taken or we will not be able to play the footage) (HD only, SD not supported)
> then it should play out of nanoFlash


Tommy

Dear Tommy,

I think I see where I went wrong. I used the "non fragmented copy" option for edited material, whereas I should have used the "Convert" option. Will give it a try again.

Thanks for the prompt replies from your side again.

Cees

Dear Dan and Tommy,

It works perfectly. Please be aware that the text in the boxes (when choosing the "convert" or "non-fragmented copy" options) is quite confusing.

Cees

I encountered similar problems when trying to use NF as a player for files rendered in Adobe Premiere Pro. Here is what I did. According to the manual, my work-flow should have been OK. I have the latest NF update installed. Any suggestions?

I rendered Premiere's (latest CS5 version) timeline (about 6 minutes) using "MPEG2 MXF" format (preset: XDCAMHD 50 PAL 25p, output 1920x1080 25fps progressive). These specs correspond to the settings of my shot video (except the bit rate). Copied the MXF file to NF formatted CF card's }CLP{ folder using Windows Explorer. The card was otherwise empty. Set Trigger to "Remote Play". Pressed Play button while the file was selected.

NF bar displays 480p59. Nothing seems to come out of the HDMI out. Timecode stays at 00:00:00.

VLC plays this MXF file without problems and confirms that the Premiere's output parameters are correct.

Dear Jyrki,

Our File Converter works with Final Cut Pro files only at this time.

On other systems, playing out via HD-SDI, or even SD-SDI, to the nanoFlash is one way of accomplishing the task.

Of course, this requires your NLE to be equipped with a HD-SDI output port.

Dear Dan

Thank you for the quick reply.
Please add an option for Premiere Pro to your File Converter, then.
Premiere has a long list of outputs to choose from, some of which should be suitable for conversion.

Hi,

if you have originally recorded nanoFlash material that you wish to copy to a CF card for playing on the nanoFlash:
> you can use the "non-fragmented copy" option out to a formatted CF card.

If you have material edited in Final Cut Pro:
> in FCP, export the footage File->Export->as Quicktime movie, with an XDCAM profile (preferably XDCAM 4:2:2)
(do not export as 720p24, 25, or 30 - nanoFlash can not play these formats)
> using our FileConverter, use the "Convert" option, choose the formatted card as the destination (for edited footage, this step must be taken or we will not be able to play the footage) (HD only, SD not supported)
> then it should play out of nanoFlash


Tommy

Any changes to this since the advent of FCP-X?

Ron

ps Merry Christmas to all

Dear Ron,

Not that I know of.

Are you having problems?

Merry Christmas Ron!

Cheers Dan,


No problems 'cos haven't tried yet but anticipating a few, not least operator ones,


Ron

I had a look on the CD Downloads page and "File Convertor" seems to have disappeared unless I'm looking in the wrong place,


Ron

I also note from elsewhere that this good only for 50Mbps recordings, whereas mine are 100Mbps,


Ron

Dear Ron,

Here is the link to the file converter:

Downloads | nanoFlash, nano3D, FlashXDR (http://www.convergent-design.com/Products/nanoFlash/Downloads.aspx)

Thanks Dan,


Ron

I've installed the File Converter, converted my movie into XDCAM 4:2:2 format, connected a blank formatted CF card to my Desktop.

I have added my XDCAM movie as the source folder and added "/volumes/No Name/CLP" as the destination.

When I click "Convert" I get the message " Check the Logs in the destination folder".

I must be doing something wrong but what?

Ron

Dear Ron,

I will ask our support team to assist.

Hello Ron,

Are you exporting out of Final Cut Pro 7 or Final Cut Pro X?

Also have you check the error Log to see what the Error is?

Or could you forward the error to me, and I can try to replicate the issue.

Support | Convergent Design (http://convergent-design.com/Support.aspx)

Andy thanks,

Video out of FCP X, and I don't know how to find the "Error Log", let alone forward it. Your further advice will be welcome.

Another thing I noticed is that my 100Mbps .Mov video, when converted to XDCAM 4:2:2 was about half the file size. Is this because of some 50Mbps limiter on your File Converter?


At the end of the day I'm looking to be able to project ,via my 1080p projector, edited video as near as possible to the quality I get when connecting my nanoFlash, with unedited footage, to my 1080p monitor.

Investigating both Blu Ray and Flash devices via a Western Digital Media Player. Hope C.D. can come up trumps as potentially a very elegant solution,

Ron

Andy,
Under "CLP" on the CF card I see "FileConvertorLog.txt" when I open this I see **NEXT LOG** and then a string, 6 , of "Unknown error : - 11

** NEXT LOG**


and so on, Ron

Re-formatted the card and tried again . Seems the six messages I referred to above each correspond to a click on the "CONVERT" button,


Ron

Hello Ron,

Unfortunately our Software Engineer who designed the file converter is on Vacation till Tuesday, I will try to track down the -11 Error between now and then.

As for the File being 1/2 the Size unless it has changed from the latest update, all nanoFlash Files when exported out of Final Cut Pro X are rendered as 50Mb XDCAM regardless of the Original bit rate,

We are working with Apple to hopefully have this fixed in the future. since this was not an issue with Final Cut 7,

Also this may be something going on with how Final Cut X Exports files, I will try to do a test in our lab within the next week.

Best Regards

Thanks Andy,

My deadline was to have been Wednesday but I've been able to postpone it a week. Hope your man can fix the problem.

A bit deflating to say the least to hear that FCP X only exports at 50Mbps, rather defeats the object of owning a nanoFlash, particularly if used with say a Canon XF 305 which already has native 50Mbps.

I have noticed though that my initial export out of FCP X, a QT .mov sequence, did mirror the size of the original files derived from the nano, which were 100Mbps. Whereas the XDCAM 4:2:2 export was half the size. Does this mean that perhaps 100Mbps has been preserved?

Playing both files size by size on this admittedly small screen 24 inch iMac shows no discernible difference in picture quality.

IF, a big IF, there is this .mov scope for maintaining the original bit rate then can it be made possible to playout .mov on the nanoFlash?

Ron

Apologies for currently hogging this forum but I am mistaken in saying that a QT.mov sequence out of FCP X mirrors that on the nanoflash. In fact the exported QT file is larger.
I checked this with a 235 MB clip off the nano which became 129 Mb when exported as XDCAM 4:2:2 but 277 MB when exported as a QT.mov.

Ron

ps a safe and healthy New Year to one and all

Hello Ron,

That is very interesting, I will try to do a test or find a work around for you in our lab today.

If you check Movie inspector Properties on the exported file what does it list?

Best Regards

May not have time today for a look as my FCP X crashed on me yesterday mid editing and will have to re-do the project via FCP X which appears to be okay, though of course minus that all important edited timeline, if I access it via the "other user" of this iMac.

It is easy enough to replicate what I did, starting off with recording a clip from an XLH1 to a nanoFlash at 1080/25psf (If your H1 has PAL) then importing this to FCP X "Video Properties Set Automatically based on first video clip"

Ron

Any progress Andy? Even more of an issue when one realises that it is impossible to burn a 1080/25p Blu -Ray disc and the Western Digital Media Player similarly will only handle a 1080/24p signal.

About time the powers that be, Sony and the like, were reminded of the relative size of the PAL and NTSC markets. A bit like comparing football (association) with baseball,


Ron

Hi Ronald,
Just wondering what you mean when you say no 25p bluray output (don't you usually select 50i as the format and it will still show as progressive)?

Not so sure I understand your query Simon. The settings on my XLHI are 25f, and on my nanoFlash , 1080/25psf.

I bring this into FCP X "natively" and FCP X "converts" to Apple Pro-Res 4:2:2 1080/25p.

In the absence of suitable Mac software I bring this footage into Toast Titanium 11. When I then Burn a BD via Toast this results in 720/50p, not quite what I want, to say the least.

Are you saying that I should shoot 1080/50i and that if I do I can burn a BD off this?

The gist of this thread of course is that I, and presumably others, cannot currently use our nanoFlashes to playback edited footage. There is also the ancillary difficulty that FCP X apparently will only output edited footage at 50Mbps maximum, negating, on the face of it, a lot of the reasons to use a nanoFlash.

Ron

Not so sure I understand your query Simon. The settings on my XLHI are 25f, and on my nanoFlash , 1080/25psf.

I bring this into FCP X "natively" and FCP X "converts" to Apple Pro-Res 4:2:2 1080/25p.



Sorry, I meant that when shooting in 1080 25f I was under the impression that the normal workflow for BluRay delivery would be to export it as 1080 50i (which would essentially be 25p in a 50i wrapper). Leastways that was my understanding when I worked on a project a couple of years back and this was the workflow used by the editor.

Dear Ron,

I believe you are experiencing the differences between Final Pro Pro and Final Cut Pro X.

With Final Cut Pro you have multiple options.

1. You can edit our nanoFlash files in XDCam 422 CBR 50 Mbps.

Our files will be the bit rate you recorded, which could be greater than 50 Mbps, up until you render them.

If the files are just cut, but not color corrected, cropped or filters applied, then the full-bit rate will be sent out to the rendered file.

2. You can edit our nanoFlash files, in Final Cut Pro 6.0.3 or higher (6 or 7, but not X).

The same condition as I outlined above apply.

You just need to drop our files into the FCP timeline.

3. You can, using FCP 6 or 7 use a HD-SDI or HDMI Interface and record the edited file sequence on your nanoFlash at any bit-rate.

But, Apple did not give advance notice to any of the HD-SDI or HDMI Interface companies when they released FCP X.

Thus, if you are using FCP X, you may have to wait for the hardware to be developed to obtain a HD-SDI or HDMI interface.

Ron, were you using FCP 6 or 7 before?

At this time, I feel that FCP X is very limiting for professional applications.

Note: I am not a full-fledged FCP or FCP X expert. I welcome corrections to any of my above statements.

Also, I have been working with Andy, our Lab Manager, and he is going to run some tests for you.

Hello Ronald,

Sorry for the Delayed response,

I was able to run a test today, and with nanoFlash 100Mb footage when exported as XDCAM it is re compressed down to 50Mb,

Granted you can export the same Footage as Pro Res, or DVC PRO, but Final Cut Pro X does not have an to Export without re compression, at this time,

Also it still does not support Capture Cards, as well as other tools that where present in Final Cut Pro 7

Hope That Helps

Thanks Dan and Andy. I do have FCP 7, found it rather user hostile which is why I got FCP X. Will have to have a go at getting into 7. X is a doddle to use but then short on so many features including, as you say, for those who are after being able to export in the highest quality, to say nothing of being able to conform 25p into 24p via "Cinema Tools".

Seems Apple have gone off half cock on this one, maybe the control freakery which appeared such a characteristic of Apple Corp in its attitude to its customers will take a back seat now. Their current advertising guff does not inspire a lot of confidence, in me anyway, that their perceived market is other than kids who like to gurn into their iPhones and bods who have just discovered that their DSLR has a video button.


Ron