Hi All

For some reason the first Saturday of the month during our busy season is always the most popular and I often book those days 12 months or more in advance. However, that doesn't stop people posting a booking enquiry on my website (despite the fact I have an up to date calendar for them to see with booked days in bright red!!)

I just turned away the 4th bride wanting the 2nd October and the 5th one who wanted the 6th November 2010!! I always feel bad that I have to turn away business but seriously I have no one that I can truly refer extra booking to that I am 100% happy with!!! If they totally mess up a wedding I have referred to them it might just come back in my face!!! (It actually did happen once too where the videographer managed to lose not only the ceremony footage but most of the speeches too!!... if that bride ever remembered that I was the "referrer" it could have done a lot of damage!!)

What do you do when you get all these brides wanting a day you have already booked?????

Chris

You might create a short list of those you feel are competent, and let the customer choose somone else on their own. You could make it clear that these companies don't have your personal endorsement, and that placement on your 'list' only means that their reputation in the industry is such that they might be worth consideration. In my case, I usually also tell them that I've not seen the finished product of each of these companies, so I can't judge the quality...anyway, it's just an idea!

Chris, sorry my friend this is a no-brainer. Accept that you can only do one a day the way you want to and let those who come late accept second best. Unless you want to create a studio and can successfully employ freelancers who'll work your way and not try to steal your business and reputation, just be grateful that you've got one each day

It's hard to earn a good reputation and yet so easy to lose one even by association.

The fact they've not properly understood or bothered to check your availability is down to them, not you.

If there's any lesson to be learned maybe it's that you are under pricing yourself. It's a decision that takes resilience and guts (which is why few ever take it) but most established wedding photogs and video people could benefit from putting up their prices by 40% year-on-year.

They'd have to lose 40% of last year's business before they failed to be ahead, doing less work for more pay.

Ours are going up by almost 30% in 2011 - my guess is that it's going to be a tough year so if we're going to be doing less work at least we'll be earning more per job, even after we've costed in the bunch of extra value things we've planned..

Thanks Guys

In fact while I was reading your responses I had another bride wanting to book the 6th November (which I originally booked in 2008!!!!)
I guess the standard "regret" email is about all one can do. I am loathe to even suggest a videographer and since the bride found me she should certainly be able to find other operators just as easy!! That way I am not involved and if the shoot goes badly the refferal never came from me!!

Philip, wow 40% is quite a jump!! Is that normal?? I went up a mere 10% in August as September here is the start of the season. I must admit I admire your courage!! Photogs here charge a lot more than we do but over here just a simple coffee table book costs the same as my entire video shoot so they have a lot heavier expenses.

I guess I should be pleased that I'm "in demand" even if I cannot help them find a videographer!!

Chris

Chris, my 40% suggestion came about when J my photographer friend was complaining how, since the demise of film, his workload had increased exponentially without any increase in income.

Working in a large centre like Manchester which in those days had at least three professional processing houses, he would drop the exposed rolls off on Saturday evening, on Sunday or first thing on Monday morning and pickup the proofs a few hours later.

Once the clients had selected their pictures, he'd give the frame numbers and print sizes to the lab. All the grading, colour balancing, retouching and tweaking was done by the boys in the labs. These exceptionally gifted men (and women) were masters at dodging and burning, masters of getting things right first time borne of years of practice - the typesetters of the photo image world.

The cost of the labs (which often worked a 24-hour shift pattern to meet the demands of the other big photographic print producers, the catalogues many of which - including the biggest - were based in Manchester) came nowhere close to the cost of the time the photographer now has to put in himself.

With a young family come to him late in life, time was critical for him. He was already established in his business, had a good reputation and hence my suggestion that he take the plunge and put up his prices by 40% - not a magic figure, merely a significant one.

It wasn't so large that it would push him out of contention so the gamble that he'd not lose more than 40% of his custom (in other words his income would remain the same which would satisfy him) was a reasonable one.

I'm not presenting myself as any sort of economic guru (you know well that I'm a guru of nothing!) but as long as the business in which we work has an element of conspicuous consumption above it (and don't we all envy those who've found the way to be there?), then I truly believe it is perfectly possible and reasonable that we should seek to improve our lot, year on year. After all, every union seeks to negotiate above-inflation annual increases for its members and in the industrialised world, unionised labour only has to even consider inflation-only increases at times of crisis.

But in reality, how many photographers and video/film people not working for a salary regularly enjoy that sort of increase?

I have no idea of your business model but I bet 10% barely covers your total increase in business costs taking into account equipment depreciation, maintenance, insurance, fuel etc. In many ways your 10% needs more guts than the 40% in my model because in your model you cannot afford to lose anything from your your business.

Hi Philip

Thanks for all that info.
Has my work load increased in 2010?? I doubt it but I can see where photogs might have extra expenses or huge amounts of unpaid time.

Seriously my overheads haven't increased in 2010..fuel still costs the same and my other expenses have actually dropped a bit due to no having to buy bucketloads of MiniDV tapes.

My enquiry rate has increased quite a lot but so far overall I have roughly the same amount of bookings as I had last start of season...it's just that the 2011 dates have found different months to prove popular. Feb was quiet last season and virtually full this coming season!!

Just got another bride wanting 6th November..it would be nice to have 12 hands and 6 cameras in our busy months!!

Chris

If this was happening for more than just a few select days, I would say your pricing would not be in line with your reputation or the market. But as you state Chris, it's just a couple of days so far. It's frustrating to see lost opportunities, but hardly worth looking to capture those lost opportunities with additional people/gear.

Something to possibly consider, a tiered pricing for prime season, and off prime or some such arrangement. Hotels have been doing it for years, might be time to consider that for your business as well.

Chris, why not hire freelancers? Charge less for your freelancers because their work is not as good as yours. The bride is going to end up hiring someone not as good as you anyway. Put that money in your own pocket.

Thanks Guys

The problem with freelancers is are they reliable??? can they produce decent footage??? Chip is already tearing his hair out with an assistant who is obviously not producing the results he expects.

At least I KNOW that I will turn up for a job even if I have flu!! A freelancer could quite easily say "Sorry I'm ill!!!" Guess if I can find someone with the same passion as me for weddings it's certainly worth looking at!!

Maybe an online ad to see if I can spot any freelancers that are worth looking at and working with ??

The advice is much appreciated

Chris

Chris, you know me well enough to know that I would regard Michael's suggestion as absolutely wrong. You've already pointed up some of the negatives, add to those the fact that if they are any good they'll be wanting to steal your business anyway.

The only way basis on which to employ people is with a clear, enforceable contract with a clause which prevents them from working on your turf for a period of time after leaving you.

I'm very pleased with the number of people who started in our company over the past 30 years and who have gone on to much greater things, but what they took from us and often developed were our techniques, our ethos and our attitudes, never our clients.

Chris, I have to say that your pricing is one of the cheapest I've seen in our area (and you still throw some promo specials too!). With that much skill and experience under your belts, I think you deserve to be paid more IMHO.

If I'm getting married in Perth I'll probably won't say this, but since I'm getting married overseas; I think you are truly entitled to increase your price quite drastically and even then I'm confident you won't lose clients. :)

During my first years I was fortunate to be able to draw on students from my college to assist and my idea (hope) was to get one or some of them to be able to cover weddings on their own but that never came to be for various reasons.
By my third year in weddings I was in this situation where I would be getting calls for dates already booked. From a business point of view as well as being the sort of person who like to help where I can I felt unhappy having to turn people away. So I scoured the area (word of mouth and wanted ads) to find interested people with suitable kit to shoot on my behalf and I would do the editing. That turned out to be a disaster both with commitment and with ability. One returned with no sound (battery in his mic had gone and he hadn't monitored), one seemed to have a tripod with one short leg (almost every shot was on a 15 degree slope).
Others would be non-committal when the booking was a year or more in advance and they hadn't booked their holiday; one was working with a competitor and playing us off against each other, as well as making his own approaches to guests on the day touting for future work for himself. I did consider asking friends (none volunteered) but thought that might be a quick way of loosing them as friends if things went wrong.
I realised that I was going to quickly loose the reputation for good work that I had built up.

After that I would just turn away enquiries and when asked if I could recommend anyone I would truthfully tell enquirers that I hadn't seen any of my competitors work so I would suggest that they ask to see some and make their own mind up. This wasn't such a problem for new cold enquiries but those I did feel unhappy about were the ones from family or friends of previous clients, I would have liked to be a bit more helpful for them.

I then decided that I would make efforts to find out what others in the area we offering so started to contact those that I knew about. Most either didn't respond or wondered what my angle was until I was fortunate enough to meet someone in a nearby city (one I didn't actively promote in). We had very similar approach, level of equipment and quality of outcome and customer service. We hit it off straight away both as we both had the same concern over turning away enquires originating from previous work. We spent some time at each others studio so we were both comfortable with the products each was producing so we agreed that rather than work on either's behalf, or charge each other for referrals (as many photographers and other wedding service suppliers would do). We would pass the enquirer directly on.

That was over 12 years ago and we have worked this way every since, as well as co-operating on large commissions together. During that time we have found a few others who have fitted into our ethos which has enlarged our pool for referral and also given us some sense of security in the event of one not being able to attend an event (this has happened just twice)

I think if you are in the position where you have a full and constant work supply (weddings can have a very patchy demand - some weeks with none others with two or three) and not all with multiple enquires it may be possible to contract someone on an exclusive basis, not many people are happy to give you their full commitment if you only require them on an ad-hoc basis.

........Chip is already tearing his hair out with an assistant who is obviously not producing the results he expects........
Chris

But Chris.... you forgot to mention how CUTE she is !!!!

I completely agree though. Michella tries really hard and has a ton of promise. But not being behind the cam on a regular basis, and knowing each other perfectly yet, as you would want from someone you are sending out solo, it's a crap shoot as to what is coming back.

The days you mention Chris, as busy as they must be, even the mediocre freelancers are going to be booked for that day as brides scramble to find someone.

I still think a tiered pricing structure might be in order. If you come here on the weekend of a Green Bay Packer home NFL game, every hotel in town is going to nail you for two nights at their highest rate, or you aren't getting a room. There are no single night bookings those weekends, and every hotel is full.

I don't think that wedding DVD pricing compares with that of hotel rooms. A wedding DVD is still a discretionary spend whereas if you have to overnight in a city away from home on an event day you need a room and will have little choice in what you'll be asked to pay.

Most wedding enquiries arrive via one of three route:
directly from a previous client, family or friend.
from a professional referral such as a photographer or other wedding service provider
cold from advertising, promotional event or website.

In the first instance your work is already sold and price is not usually an issue, you could almost ask what you want. If all of our work was from this source life would be wonderful and you could increase year on year without a problem.
The second is maybe not quite so certain. A professional recommendation will carry weight and an expectation of a price level, depending on the referrer. With this type they may still be in the "looking around" stage so will be looking for best value (note I say value not price) so you may have a good chance to progress beyond the enquiry and show them your work.
The third almost always will lead with a price enquiry, you may never even get a chance to show them any work. Almost every cold enquiry I've had this year starts with "How much do you charge for a DVD?" or "We don't have much to spend on DVD, how much do you charge?". Trying to get further may not be possible if you are just one on a list they are contacting.

Add to this the very uncertainty of how your enquiries will fall. I too have dates that repeat but I also have dates, even high season dates, that I never get a call on.

Finding the correct pricing model may be the most difficult part of the business. Advice is useful but in the end we have to operate on the basis of what our own particular market will bear. Too high and you'll loose to many, too low and you won't last long or will feel exploited and undervalued. Especially when they want to pay less for the DVD than they do for a cake, or balloons.

Hi Guys

The advice is always appreciated ...just remember that I'm not looking for bookings at all..in fact it just saddens me to have to turn away brides (but then again it's their fault for not booking early!!!)

I should really be happy (pricing aside) that I have to turn away clients!!! Freelancers would more than likely be more trouble than they are worth and as already mentioned could quite easily end up taking away your business!!

Pricing will increase later..at the moment I'm new in the Perth market as the majority of my weddings shot over the last 20 years were not here...this is only my 3rd season coming up and as I get established so will my prices. Thanks Philip ..your advice to always respected ...but you know that already!!

Finally yes what Chip's assistant loses in camera skills she makes up for in looks...I received a glamour photo of her draped over a vehicle with Chip's comment ...this is my new camera assistant!!!

Chris

Chris, you know me well enough to know that I would regard Michael's suggestion as absolutely wrong. You've already pointed up some of the negatives, add to those the fact that if they are any good they'll be wanting to steal your business anyway.

The only way basis on which to employ people is with a clear, enforceable contract with a clause which prevents them from working on your turf for a period of time after leaving you.

I'm very pleased with the number of people who started in our company over the past 30 years and who have gone on to much greater things, but what they took from us and often developed were our techniques, our ethos and our attitudes, never our clients.

Michael's suggestion is ABSOLUTELY correct. I've had the same 4 freelancers working for me the past 10 years. I pay them well, they show up and care about what they do. They have families to feed. My freelancers are in their 30s and 40s. I'm not hiring kids out of high school. They definitely don't steal my business but help me build it.

Chris, you know me well enough to know that I would regard Michael's suggestion as absolutely wrong. You've already pointed up some of the negatives, add to those the fact that if they are any good they'll be wanting to steal your business anyway.

The only way basis on which to employ people is with a clear, enforceable contract with a clause which prevents them from working on your turf for a period of time after leaving you.

I'm very pleased with the number of people who started in our company over the past 30 years and who have gone on to much greater things, but what they took from us and often developed were our techniques, our ethos and our attitudes, never our clients.

Hi Guys

The advice is always appreciated ...just remember that I'm not looking for bookings at all..in fact it just saddens me to have to turn away brides (but then again it's their fault for not booking early!!!)

I should really be happy (pricing aside) that I have to turn away clients!!! Freelancers would more than likely be more trouble than they are worth and as already mentioned could quite easily end up taking away your business!!

Pricing will increase later..at the moment I'm new in the Perth market as the majority of my weddings shot over the last 20 years were not here...this is only my 3rd season coming up and as I get established so will my prices. Thanks Philip ..your advice to always respected ...but you know that already!!

Finally yes what Chip's assistant loses in camera skills she makes up for in looks...I received a glamour photo of her draped over a vehicle with Chip's comment ...this is my new camera assistant!!!

Chris

Chris, I've been employing the same 4 freelancers for 10 years. Just pay and treat them well. Don't try to make them shoot they way you do. Sell them as them, not you. My freelancers shoot 35-40 wedding a year for me. That is money in my pocket and not work my competitors are getting. Pay them well and they won't stab you in the back. I guarantee anyone that complains about freelancers is because they were cheap and didn't pay them.

Micheal, I apologise; although I wrote that it was my opinion, my statement was clearly too sweeping and I haven't met your excellent freelancers so I'm not going to argue with your experience. However, aren't you a little disappointed that. having recorded 350-400 weddings for you, they're still not as good as you? I know from the positions they hold in the industry that some of the young people who began their careers with my company are considerably better than me.

Clearly we're offering a different product - and neither is right nor wrong. There's a part of me in every programme I make - OK I'm in a situation where I can choose that model but merely churning out programmes wouldn't suit me or my temperament. I am happy to sell me, I wouldn't be happy selling someone else, but if doing so suits you, I'll be the last to argue against it.

If I could find a decent freelancer I could more than likely get away with it as our packages are very non-cinematic and basically a documentary of the day rather than a filmic masterpiece as Philip produces.

Getting the right guy (or girl) with the necessary passion and dedication is probably the hardest problem to solve...I don't want someone who will think "If I screw this shot up I don't really care ..I'm only the freelance shooter" .... Unfortunately you only need one of those to trnish your image and telling the freelancer that they will not get any more work from you isn't going to help your now blemished image when the bride tells her mates about her bad wedding video!!

The real answer is the one Philip has and that's his second camera person is his wife so he obviously will share his passion!!

How did you find your guys Michael??? old friends, shooting buddies or did you advertise???? My best mate shoots video but I would want him to do any of my weddings...he's a great guy but a lousy videographer!!

Chris

I don't think that wedding DVD pricing compares with that of hotel rooms.

Hi George... I used the analogy as it is a finite supply that demand outstrips for those weekends. Very similar to what Chris is experiencing, demand for him and his services outstripping his ability to supply all of those brides with video.

One or two requests for a previously booked date is a nice compliment and of course an ego boost that you must be doing it right. When you get 5 or 6 as Chris states, that is a loud and clear signal there is a huge reason for them that should be investigated as to if there is a pattern there and that maybe a possibility exists they can be capitalized upon.

A couple other analogies of supply and demand here, booking a band to perform on New Years Eve will cost you double the normal rate, regardless of who you are. The other, a dinner reservation on Valentine's Day.... near impossible to pull off at the "nice" places.

That is here, your market I am sure could be very different.

I guess this has to do with what business model you want to evolve in. There's a company in Toronto who mass produces weddings, quality of work is of course not consistent but money is flowing.

I only take double bookings if the freelance videographer I have worked before is available. I make it a point to show the client his gallery and make sure they get introduced before the wedding day.

There is no right or wrong here. I am sure Still Motion will not get someone to shoot their weddings for them, but in the case of the company I mentioned they don't care as long as money comes in.

My 2 cents plus HST.

If I could find a decent freelancer I could more than likely get away with it as our packages are very non-cinematic and basically a documentary of the day rather than a filmic masterpiece as Philip produces.

Getting the right guy (or girl) with the necessary passion and dedication is probably the hardest problem to solve...I don't want someone who will think "If I screw this shot up I don't really care ..I'm only the freelance shooter" .... Unfortunately you only need one of those to trnish your image and telling the freelancer that they will not get any more work from you isn't going to help your now blemished image when the bride tells her mates about her bad wedding video!!

The real answer is the one Philip has and that's his second camera person is his wife so he obviously will share his passion!!

How did you find your guys Michael??? old friends, shooting buddies or did you advertise???? My best mate shoots video but I would want him to do any of my weddings...he's a great guy but a lousy videographer!!

Chris

hey Chris. I simply found my freelancers from working in the industry. I did have one freelancer recently that did pursue his own work while working for me and stole my ideas and incorporated them into his videos. So of course that does happen. I just found people that I can trust. There are trustworthy people out there and they do care about their job. I found freelancers that aren't interested in the business side of wedding videos. They like to shoot, hand over the tapes and get paid.

If I could find a decent freelancer I could more than likely get away with it as our packages are very non-cinematic and basically a documentary of the day rather than a filmic masterpiece as Philip produces.

Getting the right guy (or girl) with the necessary passion and dedication is probably the hardest problem to solve...I don't want someone who will think "If I screw this shot up I don't really care ..I'm only the freelance shooter" .... Unfortunately you only need one of those to trnish your image and telling the freelancer that they will not get any more work from you isn't going to help your now blemished image when the bride tells her mates about her bad wedding video!!

The real answer is the one Philip has and that's his second camera person is his wife so he obviously will share his passion!!

How did you find your guys Michael??? old friends, shooting buddies or did you advertise???? My best mate shoots video but I would want him to do any of my weddings...he's a great guy but a lousy videographer!!

Chris

Micheal, I apologise; although I wrote that it was my opinion, my statement was clearly too sweeping and I haven't met your excellent freelancers so I'm not going to argue with your experience. However, aren't you a little disappointed that. having recorded 350-400 weddings for you, they're still not as good as you? I know from the positions they hold in the industry that some of the young people who began their careers with my company are considerably better than me.

Clearly we're offering a different product - and neither is right nor wrong. There's a part of me in every programme I make - OK I'm in a situation where I can choose that model but merely churning out programmes wouldn't suit me or my temperament. I am happy to sell me, I wouldn't be happy selling someone else, but if doing so suits you, I'll be the last to argue against it.

hey Philip. My freelance videographers work is not at the level of mine (not even close). But the bride knows this and if she hires another company, she is still not going to get me.. When the bride books my freelancers, it's usually because I'm already booked. Also, the rate for one of my freelancers is much lower than my own. I've yet to have anyone that works for me leave and become better. I just happened to find people that aren't interested in the business side of wedding videos. As I mentioned in a previous post, they like to shoot, hand over the tapes and get paid.

Chris you make a good point about referring someone puts your name on the line. Of course you never want to refer a company you don't trust. As for us- first we'll try to assemble a team of shooters to cover it. If I don't have the coverage I will refer them to a handful of businesses I both trust and know they would do the same for me (refer me back).

I'm at a pivotal point with my own business- I've been getting several duplicate inquiries for 2011 dates. I either have to make the decision to stay relatively small (safe choice), or try to expand a bit and be able to take on the extra bookings by hiring more staff both in production and post. The latter is more dangerous and time consuming (training new shooters/editors) but it also yields the biggest rewards. Isn't that how most things are in life?

Hi Glen

Very true!! Decisions, decisions!!!

The real answer to expand "gently" is to discretely dump the current wife and find a expert female videographer looking for matrimony!!!! At least that way, you have a partner with the same passion and the same goals.

With someone who you can genuinely trust and works to your standard but is freelance, you also have the problem that they might just take over your business and your clients!!

It's sad to have to turn away brides each month but I guess I should be glad that I'm getting work while poor Charlie seems to be hunting for jobs. Over here the market seems to be constantly changing and one year you will have a busy Winter period and the next is dead!!!

Chris

This really hit home with me as my wife, literally, will be turning in her letter of resignation to her job tomorrow. So in 30 days she'll be working with me full time on the video business. I'm very blessed to have a wife so enthusiastic about being a part of it- especially considering she has a good career of her own, she's an RN.

I can't tell you how nerve-racking it is to give up that income and our health insurance. God willing, her working for me will help allow the business to grow. She'll work on things like getting an active blog up, networking, and logging/keeping track of our books. In addition she's becoming quite an accomplished shooter. I hope to have her at a level where she can be a lead shooter in the 2011 year. That way I'll hire two part-time 2nd shooters and be able to book two weddings on any given date regularly.

Best of luck with your endeavors- and remember too much work is never a "problem". It puts you in a unique position to either build up a healthy referral relationship with fellow colleagues and or continue to grow your business.