I have four weddings booked at a local church that I have worked in without a problem for many years.
The next one is in two weeks. Last night the bride called to say that the church is no longer allowing weddings to be recorded. She, along with the other three bride's, booked me having seen samples of weddings in that church so this appears to be a new ruling; the last one I did there was in May this year.

I contacted the priest (it's RC) this morning explaining that I have bookings based on the inclusion of

the wedding ceremony, this is his reply.

"Dear George,

Because I have an issue with Videos during Weddings and Masses etc, we
now make it very clear that we do not allow video or other electronic recording of the service. However, we do will allow video recording of the bride arriving and leaving the church with one camera only, but nothing more than that.

I hope that clarifies things.

Best wishes,

Fr Philip"

I will now have to contact all of the couples and advise them of this.

What would you do?

Hi George, I had a similar experience, but I guess mine was more "lenient". After the Bridal procession, if I am not participating in the mass, I have to stay in the lobby and can come back for the vows. Step out again and come back for the signing.

I have a clause in my agreement that it is no fault of ours for coverage lost because of restrictions.

I told my client what they can expect with the kind of restrictions imposed on us. They were not actually cool with it but what can we do?

In the back of mind, this is cool I only shoot 12 minutes of footage but I feel somehow I am short changing the client even though it is no fault of ours.

I sure hope this trend does not catch on.

George, can you surreptitiously find out if the church is looking for a fee or donation to the new building program .. if so it might not be to steep.

And you might be able to work around the ban with extra footage of the couple cavorting in the park to their favorite music etc. Good luck etc.
Cheers.

Perhaps a VERY polite and respectful phone call inquiring as to what sort of "issues" caused the change or heart resulting in vidoegraphers being demonized as agents of the devil and being banned from the sanctuary(you've read the threads, right here, so you prolly already KNOW).

Since you've shot there before, any chance you made a personal enough connection to appeal to who might plead on your behalf (presuming it wasn't your behavior that resulted in the ban).

If you can rest on your prior good behavior and swear on your life that you won't violate any sanctity of the ceremony or be obtrusive, perhaps you'd get a sympathetic ear... or not.

Not trying guarantees a "no", so if it were me I'd pay a visit, take the church officials to coffee and do-nuts, do lunch, something that would perhaps re-open that closed door, maybe even gain you exclusive access?

I think we here know how to shoot in "ninja style", and I'd say generally that's what is preferred, but I'm willing to be that a lot of other "vidiots" and "paparagraphers" are "working" weddings and don't show the same professionalism.

I can't blame a church for feeling violated by that sort of behavior, should it have happened (and clearly something DID), but to throw out ALL media is terribly extreme, and perhaps the right approach would gain "forgiveness" for a penitent and appropriately venerate professional?

If it does work out, keep it VERY "hush hush", best of luck.

""Dear George,

Because I have an issue with Videos during Weddings and Masses etc"

You know what? Customs and ethics may differ from country to country but when I will hear a priest telling something like that in Greece, I could translate it as:

"Dear George,

because church in the last few years, has a decline in both aspects of people's respect and financial terms, and because I am tired not taking my share of extra profit for all the events I am doing just for the basic salaries, I hope that you will understand that any financial support from you or the couple (I don't care who gives the green), will be the only way to get into the church and shoot your stuff.

Truly yours
The servant of God".


You think I'm over the top? Since we are talking about personal experiences, I think I'm being modest. I don't know how things work elsewhere, but here it's unthinkable to go to a church for something (christening, wedding, even a funeral) and not give the priest some money under the table. I am not talking about church's requirements (if any). Try not to communicate in this department, and your event is in serious trouble. Lately in Greece there is another trend. Priests (especially in Athens) ask for 10 Euros from the videographers or they will not be allowed to setup lights!!! 10 Euros for half an hour is pretty expensive electrical current. This is a pair of lights, not a Jean-Michel Jarre concert!

Anyway, I really hope that the time will come (someday) that people won't need God and his representatives on Earth in order to do a romantic and unforgettable wedding. These guys offer only trouble for the last 2000 years.

This rule is going into affect for brides who had booked the church when having a video was okay?

That's not fair at all for the bride and groom.

I would contact the priest again and I would see what I can do to get clearance.

Since this thread was created to offer a possible solution, I say, pay him and he will let you in, even with multicam etc. Pay him more and you will also setup a crane into the church. Seen that happening, everything is possible. :-)

George,

I am a Catholic myself, and I've seen some pretty strict priests, but this is pretty extreme. I would contact the priest (not by email, but by phone or in-person) and kindly say you received his email, and try to propose a workaround that will satisfy everyone. Perhaps recording mounted on a tripod so not to be a distraction to anyone. Then hopefully it's okay with the priest, then it's okay with the bride and groom, then you've got something better than nothing!

Hi George

That is really sad that a Church would take that attitude... for me it would raise the hair on my neck and I would try to convince the couple to go elsewhere. I wonder if the couples affected just assumed they would be allowed video and photos. Surely the Church should have mentioned that before booking them.

I guess sadly the only REAL solution is to change venues ... which is not your problem of course ... I think even with something as drastic as an under-table "donation" it will be a hard job to complete and the Church will be watching you like a hawk anyway!!

Probably best to put the ball in the couple's court and ask them what they want to do!! I can't imagine any sort of wedding without any of the ceremony being recorded at all!!! Gosh, the most important bit are the vows and ring exchange!! Just for interest I usually tell Catholic Churches that I don't record the mass (if they have one) out of respect and that goes down well!!

Chris

Perhaps the saddest aspect of this thread which seems to have not a few endorsements is that one reads regularly that most religions are suffering falling attendances and adherents. Are they so convinced of their own righteousness that they don't t even wonder if there's a link between their attitudes and their membership?

It's not as if they do the wedding for free. A father of the bride almost exploded when the vicar made a request to the guests for money on leaving the church after he'd paid over £1000 for the service which was very restricted.

I had a meeting with a minister of a local church which is notoriously difficult and attended the spoken midweek service before to make sure I didn't miss him or interrupt his service - it happened to be my own religion. I noticed that the handful of worshippers didn't even invite me to have a prayer book - the implication was that if you need the words, we don't need you.

Ironically, in the UK the Church of England often buys stands at the big wedding fairs encouraging couples to get married in church. Still as one of the country's richest landowners they can probably afford it. Also, fortunately, these instances are relatively few.

In 10 years I've never heard of anything that strict.

We have encountered many times 1-camera only in the back sitations.

In your situation, I believe it would be prudent to open a dialogue with the church and see what can be done to go back to letting at least you, film.

I guess their stance also means No Photographers as well? What bride is going to like that aspect?

Side note, we also have in our contract that Bride needs to verify what is allowed in the venue and that we will not be held responsible for "odd" angles etc due to venue rules and restrictions. I'm thinking in particular of one instance where it was a 1-camera in the balcony, in the center. The balcony extended out so far into the sanctuary, that it was impossible to see the Bride and wedding party enter from the rear, and they were only visible for just a couple seconds as they were walking out. (Yeah I know, crazy balcony design). Those things happen.

Anyways, treat the pertinent staff to lunch and see what happens.

Kyle

George I feel sorry for both you and the couples and about all anyone can say is "that really sucks".

Having been a Catholic all my life, I have experienced more than a few priests and how they have run their own private domains, their parishes.

To have this new policy come down at a place where you have worked well before, says something happened that really went all wrong and pissed this pastor off immensely. I'd put my money on it was some clod who either didn't know or didn't care about the sanctity of the church and most likely, the sanctuary area. In my church and in this area in general, that is just the area specifically around the altar. It is, or at least was, considered the most holy of areas in the church.

It wouldn't hurt to talk to the priest, but I wouldn't get my hopes up at all. It sure sounds like one or some bad apples really spoiled the barrel for every one.

Is this now a trend that is going to expand worldwide????

On our Aussie National news tonight the Catholic Church refused to conduct a funeral because the the deceased requested his coffin to be draped in his favorite AFL club flag!! They also refused to play a slideshow of his life as the music wasn't to their liking!!!

I'm pretty sure that unless it is mentioned, brides just assume that video and photography is allowed so they could be in for a rude awaking if the Church does take this line in countries other than the UK.

With our latest shock on funerals will it now encompass music played in the Church for bridal entrances???? In that case, the bride can no longer walk up the aisle to her special song????

With dwindling Church attendances here one would really think that they wouldn't do any more to deter people!!! So far every Catholic ceremony last season has been very laid back with the bride choosing her own music and they even allowed me at one to shoot the candle ceremony behind the altar...it will be a shame if we lose all that!! Civil ceremonies here are already a lot more popular than Church ones and we have a lot of purpose built "reception centres" that have everything in one spot ...including a ceremony gazebo!!

Chris

Wow, I forgot what I was missing.

I haven't done a wedding in almost 15years, and not much has changed.
I've been in the balcony, in and out the door, had free run, and allowed into the Sanctuary.

I always went to the rehersal, introduced myself, and always asked the house rules, and worked from them.
Never had any issues, that would stop me from going back, so what happened to this particular church is interesting.

I have even been allowed to film my daughters Christening in a United Church, in the UK, where the other half of the family is from, using the same methods I used when shooting Weddings. I know, it was my daughters Christening, but rules are rules- I worked with them, but not to have any video at all- not acceptable, and I was ready to make that point clear to the Vicar, if I was told I couldn't.

I have four weddings booked at a local church that I have worked in without a problem for many years.
The next one is in two weeks. Last night the bride called to say that the church is no longer allowing weddings to be recorded. She, along with the other three bride's, booked me having seen samples of weddings in that church so this appears to be a new ruling; the last one I did there was in May this year.

I contacted the priest (it's RC) this morning explaining that I have bookings based on the inclusion of

the wedding ceremony, this is his reply.

"Dear George,

Because I have an issue with Videos during Weddings and Masses etc, we
now make it very clear that we do not allow video or other electronic recording of the service. However, we do will allow video recording of the bride arriving and leaving the church with one camera only, but nothing more than that.

I hope that clarifies things.

Best wishes,

Fr Philip"

I will now have to contact all of the couples and advise them of this.

What would you do?

I have a clause in my Terms & Conditions stating that before booking the B & G need to make sure they have "permission to record" at the location.

Sad as it is, I think more and more churches are acquiring bad experiences of past events and choosing to say no. Agree with Philip concerning the fees paid, you would think the church would start to think more strategically, but no.

As regards how "rich" a religion may be generally, many churches are totally costed centres responsible for their own profit and loss - hence the reason why the "begging bowl" comes out on many occasions.

:)

On my booking agreement the clients do have to tick and sign a line that they have permission to record in the church and that they have paid any fees and are aware of any restriction that my be imposed. I do not normally get in negotiations with the church minister until the rehearsal where we are face to face. I find then that personality can have a great bearing on negotiations.

The concern I had with this one is that the rules were changed after booking had been made at a time when permission had been granted, or at least hadn't been denied. I did a wedding there earlier this year with the same priest with no problem.

Anyway the update is that I tried phoning without being able to reach him so I sent a follow up email pointing out that he had allowed me to record a wedding there at the end of May and this is his reply:

Nothing personal, George. Absolutely not.

No, it's all to do with the Sacredness of celebrations (and me feeling
terribly uncomfortable being video-ed).

Maximum allowance = Video in and Video out.

Keep up the good work - I enjoy working with you.

Fr Philip

So no relenting or explanation of his recent conversion. I've now got one distraught bride (her wedding is next week) and three potential upset ones when I contact them to tell them of this, unless he has already told them.

Hmmm, this thread upset me. I think it's really an outrageous matter for the clergy to do this to the brides and grooms that have already made arrangements to have the service covered. The very least they could have done was set a date so that the couples that had already contracted and paid for the video could have it and the couples coming to their churches would know upfront that they couldn't have video in the church. Changing the rules midstream smacks of the kind of thinking that only small minded people do to gain control over their minions.
I've worked in churches that are very restrictive and that's bad enough but to be cut out almost comletely like that especially in the way it was done and leaving so many B&Gs out in the cold so to speak is really a sign, to me at least, of why, in my area of the world, more and more couples are getting married outside of the church. I'm not dissing any religion I'm just saying that a lot of churches and officiants set such ridiculous and extreme rules about video/photo that a lot of couples lately are going elsewhere.

Good luck with whatever you do.

A study of the marriage statistics in the UK is very interesting National Statistics Online - Product (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=14275)

The total number of marriages in the UK has declined enormously over the last 30 years. There were about 370,000 in 1980 & only 232,000 in 2008 (most recent year that stats are available). Of those marriages the proportion of religious ceremonies has decreased even faster so back in 1991 it was about 50:50 between civil & religious ceremonies but now about is 70:30.

The one big growth area since the mid-1990s has been marriage ceremonies in 'approved premises' i.e. hotels, stately homes and historic buildings. Until the legislation was introduced at that time the only options were a religious ceremony or a civil ceremony in a Registry Office which is frankly a bit dowdy & unromantic (I speak as someone who was married in a Registry Office). In 2008 there were just 76,000 religious ceremonies but there were 105,000 ceremonies in 'approved premises' which of course would not be hired as venues if they provided the customer service that many churches seem to offer.

If I was in that situation I would act as a guest and use an hv30 or something and give the groom a DVR "to at least get the audio even if we cant have the video" I'd also get a go pro or something and give it to the groomsmen. I would do my best to secretively pull it off.

David I think this is the sort of behaviour that may have caused this. Going against the express wishes of the vicar is the quickest way to get all videographers banned from a church.

In all the time that I've been doing weddings I've tried to cultivate a professional relationship with everyone involved in the wedding. That means not going against agreements, even if I disagree with them or the other person is not acting professionally. My clients know that. The very last thing I want is a scene in the church.

Hmmm, this thread upset me. I think it's really an outrageous matter for the clergy to do this to the brides and grooms that have already made arrangements to have the service covered. The very least they could have done was set a date so that the couples that had already contracted and paid for the video could have it and the couples coming to their churches would know upfront that they couldn't have video in the church. Changing the rules midstream smacks of the kind of thinking that only small minded people do to gain control over their minions.

I agree and that's why Fr. Philip suddenly decided he doesn't like being videod now .. after all these years, along with inconveniencing you and upsetting his next booking in a week. And what a liberty to add .. 'I enjoy working with you' that's just being rude. He doesn't realise he's about to lose future bookings.

George I think you've got valid reasons to take just ONE more shot at it .. and in person. Wear a tie and good luck from all of us. Let's know the outcome.

Cheers.

I've a feeling that someone has either done as someone has suggested and tried to do it surreptitiously or have blatantly gone against his directions or argued with him over the coverage. He had always made it clear to me that he didn't want to have his readings and personal words to the couple recorded and I always respected that, maybe others didn't. Anyway he will not allow anything further so I will now wash my hands of it.

The bride for next weekend wants to cancel as she only really wanted the ceremony filmed because her mother can't be there and it was that priest who suggested me in the first place. She was only having the rest of the day covered because I won't do part days.

I have just sent letters to the other three brides who are booked for next year to advise them. I hope that they won't look for someone who will offer to do it "undercover".

The bride for next weekend wants to cancel as she only really wanted the ceremony filmed because her mother can't be there and it was that priest who suggested me in the first place.If this is the same priest that is now forbidding video then his actions beggar belief.

The very same one, and if you see his reply to me that I posted above his new ruling is nothing to do with me, but I think that someone has upset him.

I do feel peeved at having to accept the cancellation, (she did make it clear when booking that the ceremony was the only part she really wanted recording) but also sorry that the bride's mother won't now be able to share in the moment. The bride won't visit the priest with me as she feels she'll say something she'll later regret (Catholic priests seem to have a supernatural hold over their believers).

I won't contact him again as any negotiations we have are tangential to my agreement with my clients. In the end it's up to them to accept his ruling.

..The bride won't visit the priest with me as she feels she'll say something she'll later regret ...

That could be... but someone should, perhaps the parents of the bride and groom, no point in you talking to the priest Goroge,he wont listen to you.

Anyway good luck.

David I think this is the sort of behaviour that may have caused this. Going against the express wishes of the vicar is the quickest way to get all videographers banned from a church

George, why would the officiant ban videographers if a guest is filming the wedding from a pew? I am assuming there is a major distinction with this guy between a professional videographer walking around filming the ceremony and a guest getting some shots with his new handycam.

Sorry George disregard my comment as I didn't realize that you and the officiant know eachother therefore you are most certainly not a guest no matter where you're sitting. However, in the instance where you and he don't know eachother I would still proceed as a guest.

Are they letting the photographer still shoot? If so act like a photographer and use a dslr to shoot video.

Dan
Forever Moments Video Productions (http://www.forevermomentsvideo.com)

George this is a tough situation. First and foremost make sure you have in your contract that you aren't liable for any loss of production quality or lack thereof due to restrictions at the Church. Secondly you can contact the Priest/Pastor (preferably in person) and explain your plight. Explain that you've shot there several times before and have never caused an issue because you make an effort to NOT be obtrusive. Go on by explaining how what occurs during the service is essentially the most important part of the day. It's the entire reason for the wedding "celebration" in the first place.

In other words show that not only will you not be a threat in regards to disturbing the service- but additionally garnish personal respect for the Holy Sacrament that the service, indeed, is. This has helped me disarm many Priests/Pastors that were originally objectionable to wearing a wireless mic.

I get the feeling that the priest is a bit self conscious and this is the source of some of the discomfort with videotaping. Not sure if there's anything you can really do about that!

I do think the idea of shooting with a DSLR or even a small P&S with video, while being sure to omit any of the officiants speeches (sometimes they are great, sometimes better eliminated ANYWAY!), is worth consideration, but you'd risk being sent to purgatory indefinitely!

This is what the photographer said about the wedding that Father Philip would not allow to be videoed, the original subject of this post.

"Hi George
This priest could not have been more helpful, he actually encouraged me to take photographs, weird or what?
What I can't under stand is why he recommends you if he has not allowed you to do a video. I can't understand what he has against video but on the evidence of Saturday his attitude to photographs is the opposite, UNLESS he just fancied me!!!!!!!!!
Any way thanks for the job, I'll try and send you some but its diabolical for next year at the moment.
See you for lunch some time
John"

Something funny going on stay well clear of him stop .. or you're likely to be a party in the case stop.

Cheers.