I know these two cameras are worlds apart but I have to ask. My application is for very low light situations rather it be SD or HD or $1k, $3K, or whatever I am researching.

I have tried the VX2100 and like how it does but it is behind the times a bit and the HDR-FX1000 closer to the times but is costly.

The VX2100 is known to do well in low light. I am reading the HDR-FX1000 is supposed to perform well in low light also.
Then there is the Lux spec delima and how some mfg's fudge the ratings but Sony lists the specs on the VX2100 @ 1.0 and the HDR-FX1000 @ 1.5. I'm sure how they got the numbers on the cameras is classified.

Talk to me guys. How do they compare?

Having had a VX2000 and a couple of FX1000s, I can say they're awfully close. If the FX can't match the VX in low light, it's only a hair behind. Remarkable, really, and it's HD and does much better widescreen.

Based on your other posts I know HD isn't a priority but with HD you could blow up the frame quite a bit (either in post or with digital zoom/extender) and still have better resolution than regular DV. And the FX has a much longer tele end.

If you're ready to go tapeless the AX2000 is basically the same cam as the FX1000.

Thanks, I need to be tape though.

What about time stamp over the firewire. Have they fixed that yet. I need to be able to record to DVD with time stamp displayed.

It's not "fixed" because it wasn't broken. They decided it was a pro feature and they reserved it for the pro cams as a point of differentiation from the consumer models. If you need a permanent burn in you need the pro models, either the PD or the Z5.

But once again, if you send an analog signal to the DVD burner you'll get the time stamp. Just not digitally.

Thanks,

I see. I'm an old dog trying to learn new tricks.
They do have an optional cable that has S-Video. Will time stamp go over Component? HDMI?

They should.

Interestingly, while the manual for every other Sony I've had specifically says that the date/time data is not output over FW, the FX1000 manual only says that this data may not be output depending upon the device or application. Hm.

I sure would like to know if it is possible. I would hate to take footage shot in HD and have to transfer it over S-Video or composite to get a time stamp displayed. But that will be for Work Footage. My personal footage does not require the time stamp.
Is there any software that would help me?

Let me test it on one of my Z5s. Can you give me a few minutes?

Oh yes! thanks.

Component: Yes.
HDMI: Yes.
Firewire: Sadly, no.

Thanks! HDMI is a very promising surprise.

I have been reading the thread you started "FX1000 has arrived - first impression" and learning a bunch.
I have a VX2100 on a trial basis right now and I may have to opt for the FX1000. The 20X zoom is very attractive and from the low light side by sides posted the difference seems to be very little.

I am a PI and shoot lots of street lighted areas. I think if it is too dark for the FX1000 then its most likely too dark for the VX2100? You think?

While I would never assume Sony has measured the low light ability the same between the two cams, my hunch is that the numbers are fairly accurate -- about a half-stop difference, if that, between the two cams. To my eye they're really close but I haven't shot with my old VX for years -- I donated it to the kids' school in '06.

The specs list the VX2000 (which I had) as 2 lux, while your VX2100 is supposedly 1. That may just be semantics due to some different settings that may be available on the later model. I don't believe the chips are any different.

So I'm guessing they're all imperceptibly close. Maybe you can rent a Z5 for a night and see how it does.

I didn't start that thread but I certainly pontificated a lot in it, and I think most people's overall impressions of the cam are right on. I thought, and still think, it's one of the best cams I've ever owned, and I only got rid of mine to move up to the Z5, its big brother, which has a few more features I needed.

Note that HDMI on most devices other than TV screens is OUT only. I'd be surprised if your DVD recorder supports HDMI IN, but I suppose it's possible.

Darn it!

Thanks

Which DVD Recorder are you using?

A cheap-o RCA that works really well and have looked at the back before posting last. It only has a single HDMI out.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure HDMI is only for display in most cases. There are some very expensive tapeless recorders for video mentioned in the other forums that support HDMI, but they'll be more expensive than the camera.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=711529&Q=&is=REG&A=details#specifications

At that rate you could just get a Z5, which will permanently burn in the date and time on the tape (as would the PD170 mentioned earlier).

Allen, The FX1000 is good in low light, but IMO it doesn't come as close to the VX2100 as I wish it did. I've had three of the old ones, and two of the FX1000s. The VX2100 almost was amazing in low light. The FX1000 is very good, but not amazing. I shoot in lots of old dark churches, which is what I base my personal opinion on.

On the other hand, the newer Sony is reputed to be better in low light than the FX1000, and I'm seriously considering getting one. The image of the FX1000 goes flat in low light before the VX2100 does, and that to me is still my biggest disappointment in much of the footage I shoot with the FX1000.

Mind you, for the money, there are few if any better options. The FX1000 produces some VERY nice footage after you learn how to operate it.

Thanks,

Hear me out.
I am a different kind of video pro in being a private investigator. Color quality is not a concern of the court or client. I am going from a Panasonic PV-GS500 with a terribly limited nigh mode (MagicPix) to the VX2100 and am happy but would like to have 20X glass which is why I am eye balling the FX1000. HD, SD is no matter.
Light gathering like in the video link below is what I am looking for and if the FX can match it pretty closley I'll swap to it or the likes of it.
If you know of a lower cost camcorder with 20x glass that will match it please tell me.

The first scene is of my front door from 40 feet which is pretty brightly lit but as you can see I start to reveal detail in the black door showing its panels @ a 6dB gain increase out of a possible 18dB. Nice! I put the GS500 to the same test and it could not show the details making the door look like a black hole.
The 2nd scene is 230 yards (measured) away, hand held at 12x zoom. Amazing. I pointed the GS500 at the same scene and it was black but for the street light showing as a single dot on a black screen.
The 3rd scene is 150 yards (measured) away at an even more dimly lit area.

I can work with this because these scenes are the extreme. In real situations I will be much closer than in the 2nd and 3rd scenes.

http://alcphoto.net/vids/vx2100demo.wmv

Talk To Me

Those shots look pretty challenging and without being there to see the actual light it's a little hard to predict how well the FX would do. Jeff's experience notwithstanding, looking at the side by sides in the old thread (around post #80) it sure looks like the FX is every bit as good as the VX.

I really think your best bet is to try to rent a Z5 for a night if you're near a big city with a video rental outfit (they're more likely to have a Z5 than an FX1000 and they're the same camera).

But based on what you posted, I think a solution may be a PD170, and then you'll have all your problems solved (including the time/date issue) for probably less than the cost of an FX.

20x zoom of FX1000 is not as advantageous as it sounds since it starts out wider, it is nice, but the VX2100 loses less light at full zoom so the image is more usable. If your doing PI etc stuff I would absolutely consider the 2100/PD150 or 170. PD150 is a better deal, and I found both of mine to be slightly better in low light than the VX2100/PD170s. Don't ask me why, it was just so. Others have said the same.

Thanks Guys,

The VX2100 that took that footage is on the way back to Adorama. The internal batteries are dead and upon telling them they sent me a shipping label so they can see about replacing them. As a PI I cannot afford the time to have to reset the clock after a battery change during surveillance while the money shot escapes.
So I pondered upgrading but it seems it will make better since to stick with the VX2100.
Those shots were at full zoom and if the FX1000 falls off zoomed out perhaps I should calm down.

It's a day and night improvement over the GS500 that's for sure.

It's not the 20x that matters, as I've pointed out before, it's that the 35mm eq at full zoom in 4:3 mode is about 720mm on the FX, vs about 518mm for the VX/PD. In 16:9 mode the equivalent is only about 590mm as the field of view is naturally wider, but that's still a 14% advantage.

Adam you are correct. However in their is a dramatic loss of at least one f-stop at full zoom, and in many circumstances I personally cannot use images from the cam at full zoom anyway. This same issue is present with the 2100 of course, but not nearly as pronounced. For his work the 2100 is close to perfect.

It's not the 20x that matters, as I've pointed out before, it's that the 35mm eq at full zoom in 4:3 mode is about 720mm on the FX, vs about 518mm for the VX/PD. In 16:9 mode the equivalent is only about 590mm as the field of view is naturally wider, but that's still a 14% advantage.

You Guys Are A Great Help,
When I looked at that test footage I got pretty excited. If it had not needed to be sent back for batteries I may not have looked at another.

You guys are great. And holding on to the additional $1250.00 it would take to move out of the VX1200 is making me feel all warm and fuzzy as I fall back to earth.

For his work the 2100 is close to perfect.

Yes, assuming he can find one in good condition from a reputable vendor. B&H happens to have a couple at the moment. I'd highly recommend purchasing from them; I've bought used gear from them in the past and never had any issues.

But Adorama has a PD150 for less than a VX2100. Why don't you see if they can get you that plus a couple accessories (like new batts) for what you paid? Costs less and you'll have your time/date issue solved.

I'll sell you my PD-170

Heh! Thanks,

I guess I'll stick with the VX2100 that Adorama is going to service or have serviced. The Pd-170 is not listed in the used section anymore either.

Rob, if Adorama keeps it I may get in touch.

I'm not pushing Adorama, as I'm a B&H guy and while they say they're advertisers here I haven't seen any ads from them. But as they have your money, and the PD150 I mentioned is indeed still on the site you should consider checking it out.

DSRPD150 Sony Dsr-pd150 Mini Dvcam Camcorder (http://www.adorama.com/US%20%20%20%20375514.html)

Thanks, I got the 50 and 70 mixed up.

I have used B&H, Beach Camera, Calumet and Adorama over the years as a DSLR shooter and all of them have always been great to work with. I cruise them all for the best price.

I got the VX2100 for almost the same price as that PD150. They will haggle a bit with the used stuff. They also gave me a 30 day trial period.

Being the VX2100 is newer than the PD-150 I guess I'll hang with it for now.

I still have and use my 15- that's 10 years old. Granted it's been to Sony and had the transport and heads replaced one and has more hours than I care to mention and now I only use it for my 2 cam but it has been and is a solid performer over the years. I have never had a problem with it, never. The PDs are about as solid as you can get.
The only thing I would want to know about the one you're talking about is the hours. All of them. The fact is the heads on those cams are generally pretty well worn out by about 1100 to 1200 hours of tape run. Hours of operation aren't as important since the camera might have been on but not recording, I've done that many times for seminars either using it for IMag or going back to a deck. Drum run is important as well of course. Might be worth looking at.

I guess you don't know how green a rookie I am. How can I check the run times?

Thanks.

Allan,
On the VX series you can't check times, that's strictly a function of an authorized Sony repair shop with the proper tool to do so. On the PD series though after turning the camera ON open the LCD and on the camera body there are a bunch of buttons one of them is the MENU button. Press it and use the SCROLL WHEEL to scroll to the bottom icon. Then PRESS the scroll wheel to highlight the icon, scroll to the bottom, it says HOURS, press the scroll wheel and there you are. The top number is OPERATION, the next is TAPE RUN, then DRUM RUN then THREADING OPERATIONS. All number except threading operations is multiplied by 10 so for instance if the OPERATION number read 70 then it has 700 hours of ON time. DRUM RUN reads 45 then it has 450 hours of drum run time. If say THREADING OPERATIONS read 513 then thats what it is meaning it threaded tape 513 time which really doesn't mean much to me. Operation, Drum run and Tape run to me are the most valuable and telling numbers.
HTHs

Thanks, So I guess a 2 year MACK warranty is called for.

No, the cams are SO inexpensive and so reliable...I can't see getting a warranty. I've seen PD150s for $750. I've bought two off of the classifieds here. I paid $850 for one two years ago that had barely been used. I turned around and sold it for after using it for two years. It was still in top notch condition, and the guy that bought it called me earlier this year to tell me how happy he is with it.

Not if you have my luck. Heh!

Thanks

Hi Guys,

I got my PD170 today and am very pleased. It seems to have low hours. Operation 51, Drum 28, Tape 19, Threading 41, all x 10 of course.
The kit is tailored to a PI's needs. A pelican case to protect it, one small and one largest sized "Sony" battery, a cigarette lighter charger, and the memory stick.
I now have the Date & Time no matter what the transfer method. I no longer have to S-Video out to a set top DVD-RW burner to have the code on the video. I just firewire to the PC and pull it off to Windows movie maker. OoooRah!
You can toss a blanket over the camera or close the iris and the code is still shown!

Moving through manual adjustments from iris, shutter speed, and gain has more freedom and cares less which one I picked 1st.
No color view finder but that's OK with me.

The tad bit lower LUX rating is a tad noticeable.

My old Sony CCD TRV-52 remote control works with it.

I took it out and this thing in the hands of a PI is deadly at night. My available shooting light conditions have doubled.

As a raw rookie video shooter if it were not for this group of folks here I would still be lost in the woods.

This is a class A group. there are no "Use the SEARCH" police here it seems. You guys have been great.

Oh..... the internal batteries are working to hold the settings during a battery change. For now.


Thanks.

Congrats! This is a great forum, I completely agree with you!