I have seen many short videos ranging from 3-10 minutes. What I haven't seen is Long videos. What is your average length long edited video?

Hi Steven

I'm sure everyone does a full wedding video edit but it's a bit much to put a full DVD onto YT or Vimeo as they have size restrictions.

My brides get a DVD with between 80 and 100 minutes of video (depends on how long the speeches go on for usually) This is essentially a full record of the day from Bridal Prep, Arrival, Ceremony, Photoshoot, Grand Entrance, Speeches, Cake and First Dance, a bit of normal dancing and the farewell at the end of the evening.

Chris

I think this has been discussed in detail before around here somewhere.

It all depends on what they've hired you to cover: Rehearsal, Rehearsal Dinner, Pre-Ceremony, Ceremony, and Reception is the way we break out the events.

If a client goes "all out" and gets all 5 (which includes the -all-day- pre ceremony... we offer shorter pre-ceremony as well), the final video could well be 120 minutes. (out of ~15 hours on-location coverage)

If a client goes "normal" with just the Ceremony and Reception (about 3 hours of on location coverage), then the final video will probably be about 40-60 minutes depending on how long the actual ceremony is and how much is going on at the reception.

So in the end, our final videos can be as short as 40 minutes, or as long as 120 minutes.

Hope that helps.

Most of the long video's sound is music over layed or actual audio from the moment?

My films are between 25-45 mins long and I provide complete day coverage in the price. Since I pick and choose the footage I want to show it enables me to best provide my clients a way to relive their day without having to see every single detail. I go for more of a story telling aspect rather than a documentary aspect.

Steven, like a number of people in this forum we make a creative record of the day in an essentially documentary style. That means reflecting the overall balance of the day. Obviously some elements aren't very filmic and we generally leave most of these to the photographer (signing the register, cutting the cake).

However, the whole subject of overall duration has, in my view, become somewhat irrelevant, with the availability of dual layer DVDs and Blu-ray, providing you chapterise the whole production extensively.

At the same time, this year's weddings, especially, seem to have been loaded with singing waiters, casinos, balloon benders, bands, Chinese lantern launches and fireworks, all of which add to the overall duration. Some this year have approached 120 minutes.

Since we have a policy of not reducing the DVD bitrate much below 8Kb/s (the limit for early Sony players) to extend the effective capacity of the disk, this means a much more frequent use of dual layer DVDs.

We don't regard this as a problem. Audiences in general are becoming much more tolerant of very long programmes (eg collections of broadcast season series) which they watch in sections, hence the importance of intelligent and careful chapterising.

If you make a documentary-type of programme I recommend you give more consideration to the overall dynamic of the programme and the balance between the sections rather than the overall length. Get that and the colour grading and the sound sweetening right and the programme can be as long a it needs to be.

Regarding your additional question Steven we always include as much relevant sync sound as possible mixed with the clients' choice of music. Actually, a really switched on client recently provided me with music that she wanted under her vows and ring exchange. It was film music and not vocals and I was really surprised how much it added to the piece - it was well chosen and made that part of the ceremony very very emotional.

Hi Steven

With me it's 90% ambient sound ..the only overlayed music will be on the photoshoot otherwise it's basically live video capture. We might however put a backtracked music clip behind the live audio on bridal arrival and bridal prep. I do a lot of guest/family interviews to capture the emotion of the day so mine are probably furthest from the Cinematic style where there's lots of slo motion and creativity and the main audio track is the bride's favorite music.

Each to their own..you need to develop a style that you like but more importantly what your clients like!!

Chris

Audio for me is mostly audio from the day... about 90% as well.

The only audio that we include in the final DVD is the vows/ring exchange and the reception speeches...

Kren
www.verticalvideoworks.ca

I pretty much got into wedding films cause I had seen so many boring long 2 hour weddings films. I was bored of the last lord of the rings by the end it was so long and that had a script /plot etc. Now , i produce about a 25- 30 min film with the speeches on the extras section of the DVD. I use a cinematic documentary style and have just started using DLSR. The style i want to achieve simply cannot be used if your goal is to produce a 2 hour long weddings film. I know some are even longer. I take time to set up shots, frame and so on, im not amazing yet but i will be soon. ( ive only been going for 1 year )

Now i leave out all the singing in the church , group shots, anything posed, and all that banter that the vicors go on about, and most of the prayers cause they do it 4 times. I now am in the position to tell clients that if they want a 2 hour long weddings film with the camera just looking around I am not the man to do it.

So far its a winner for me. Long wedding films are out and old, people in these times like a quick fix, we watch adverts and text. we want a fast and intense gratification.

my 2 pence.


Luke

Luke

Luke, if that's what your market is happy with, good for you. I must admit I find it odd to compare a wedding video with Lord of the Rings but I'm sure we've all seen terrible wedding videos, 20 minutes and 2 hours long. In fact the main benefit of the 20 minute programmes was that they're over sooner.

All I'd take exception to is the implication that because people like me don't make your sort of programmes, we don't "frame and so on". I want to assure you that I do, but perhaps because I've been doing it so long, I do it very quickly and almost without thinking.

Hi Luke

That's neat if you can get a bride who is looking for a short form wedding ceremony!! Most of mine want everything included, especially in the ceremony and when we meet I very carefully discuss the ceremony with them. At Catholic weddings I usually suggest that we don't film the homily if it's too long as some priests talk for ages!! I also suggest that if they have a full mass, we leave that out too. However if the bride wants the hymns/singing/gospel choir then it's my job to film it!! A normal Church wedding, keeping the basic important bits is quite often at least 20 minutes on it's own and I find with my brides that's what they want. I don't think I have ever done a sub 30 minute wedding DVD (even if the speeches are on their own) Surely that would leave out important bits????

Our Civil ceremonies are quite quick here...my record one was 6.5 minutes from bride arriving to finishing the register signing...(the bride was actually pretty upset with the officiant!!!) but even civil ceremonies are close to 20 minutes.

It's hard to imagine how one could trim an event that lasts up to 12 hours into 20 minutes unless you cut an awful lot out!! For me 20 minutes would be a Highlight DVD only.

Chris

When talking to a couple thinking about making a booking I would find myself telling them that the service and speeches were chaptered allowing them to skip through if they thought necessary.

I thought about it and realised that all the service and speeches did for my films was slow or interrupt the flow of the film.
Of course the bride and groom want the service and speeches in there entirety so these are added as extras on the DVD.
But for the film itself I found cutting these down made the film flow and made for a much more watchable film.

I haven't produced a film over 30 minutes in a long time.
I find that even with 2 or more cameras a good solid 25-30 minute film is more than enough to capture the day in such a way that it's not a chore to watch it over and over and my couples are proud to show it to their friends and family.

I haven't watched a proper long form wedding in a while but it would be interesting to see exactly what footage makes up the extra time.
If you take out the entire ceremony and speeches how much footage are you left with?

www.memoriesonfilm.co.uk

Yes , I suppose it is a highlights film, 5 mins prep, 10- 20 mins church - 5 mins reception- 5 mins dance. It still adds up to around an hour I suppose with the speeches but they are on the extras as they drag the pace of the film. At the meetings i explain Im keeping it fresh and fun, that you can watch it with all your friends and have a Premier with drinks . Sit down for half hour, and all love it. Most of brides say at the meetings " oh yeah i dont want the singing or all the babble" and why would you, church songs suck apart from Jerusalem is pretty epic. Fair enough singing or an amazing choir ill add in, but what can you film when people are singing a bible hyme, its just boring to watch on film. Readings also go on the DVD menu .

Basically they can watch the film with everyone and everyone will love it and not get bored. If there close family and friends want to watch the speeches they can , if they want to watch the readings they can. But everything in one sitting in 2 hours. zzzzzzzzzzzz. I recently got sent a wedding film from a couple who chose someone else because they were on a budget. Its 2 and a half hours long, the lady said they have not even watched it all the way through yet and asked me to freshen it up. I couldnt touch it cause it was just people standing aournd, filming everyone walking in to the church, the whole service, the whole reception. Thats not fun to watch and even the Bride thought so.

But im only 26 so perhaps I just have different taste. I know older clients might prefer a longer film but people my ages want it short with a lot of punch and emotion. I know I would if i was to ever marry.

Different taste for different people i suppose :)

Luke

I actually think it easier to make longer films as well. Ive done when i first started. Now its a real challenge to keep it all solid, if there is one shot out of place ill cut it my a fraction to make it fit. Filming the whole service is easy. Cut it into 10-15 mins and then your test your creativity

Luke

Hi Andrew and Luke

In the old days of VHS tape, yes, a long form wedding would have been terrible!!! a BIG yawn but with DVD menus the bride can essential watch whatever she wants!! I edit into maybe up to 20 clips and most are less than 5 minutes except for the speeches (no control over that) but each speech is a clip. The ceremony can be anything from 10 minutes to 40 minutes if the bride wants everthing included (some Catholic ceremonies have 6 or more readings!!!!)

Seriously guys if you take out the usual 4 or 5 speeches at around 6 minutes each and a 20 minute ceremony that's 50 minutes gone out of the 80 mins so I would say that the "rest" of the wedding is maybe a max of 20 minutes as most speeches are even longer than 6 minutes!!!

If you split the remaining 20 minutes (or less) over bridal prep, congrats outside the Church, photoshoot, guest interviews during pre-dinner drinks and then the cake, first dance and bouquet...each clip is pretty short and easy to watch. No where on my DVD's is the bride subjected to more than 20 minutes of footage, in fact ceremony and speeches aside, my average clip length is often well under 6 minutes!!! What my brides absolutely love are things like the congrats outside the Church and the Guest interviews..these are live and spontaneous and that's where the emotion of the day is revealed. There is no way I could provide that in a 20 minute film!!!

Just for interest what is actually covered in a 20 -30 minute film???? If the ceremony is chopped right down to vows, ring exchange and register it's still going to occupy 10 minutes of your 20 minute film. How on earth would you fit bridal prep, photoshoot, cake and first dance etc etc into 10 minutes or are these simply covered very quickly as part of the wedding day flow and not done in real-time???

Yes, I agree it takes exceptional talent to compress 12 hours into 20 minutes. I commend you both for being able to achieve it!!

Chris

Hi Luke

Although this film had no brides prep as such this is a pretty standard edit for us.
http://www.vimeo.com/13009254

Included on the DVD as extras will be the complete service, the complete speeches, a 1 song highlight clip (charlotte & noah – 31.11.09 Memories On Film (http://www.memoriesonfilmblog.co.uk/?p=513)) and if we made one the coming soon trailer.
This couple also went for our Big Brother style diary room, so they also get a montage of messages as well as all the messages unedited.

They certainly didn't go short of footage, but what I like about this film is that it seems to flow as one continuos film (others may disagree).

Be good to hear your thoughts.

www.memoriesonfilm.co.uk

Thanks for sharing. Now it is clear to me, the complete speeches & ceremony is still part of the DVD but not part of the featured Cinematic edit. I have always wondered why the couple would agree on not seeing the speeches but now I know.

Great work andy , you work solo?

Love the sexy super 8 , was that the 7d coming in as well later on. Just one myself, love it.

Luke

Andrew, thank you very much for sharing that. I have been working on the long video for a recent wedding that I did, and that gave me some great ideas. Highlights are a dime a dozen, but the longer videos are hard to come by. I think you did a great job.

Cut it into 10-15 mins and then your test your creativity

Luke With respect Luke, I think cutting out the "boring bits" regardless of what the client wants is the easy way.

On the other hand, making a long form programme and keeping it fresh, watchable and compelling - that's real creativity. But it's onl;y a view; Peter Jackson obviously didn't do it for you though clearly others were enchanted.

Of course chaptering helps; our programmes have 20 or more chapters, but that's really to make navigation easy. And of course a long form programme is watched in its entirety on fewer occasions but that's what our Dream programme (which we also include in our product) is there for - the whole day in the length of one of the couple's favourite songs.

And I hate to disappoint your theory, but the vast majority of our clients are young people - the iPad generation, in fact as if to prove the point, earlier in the summer we had a groom deliver his speech from an iPad.

But be absolutely clear, if you're delivering what your market wants then you're doing it right and good luck to you, but don't assume that other markets and business/product models are wrong.

I think different markets require different approaches, although there is the theory that wedding videographers are able to manipulate the market demands. In a perfect world, wedding videographer's personal approach would be 100% accepted by the couple (as long as the overrall quality is present) but this is not always the case. A good idea (at least for us) is the creation of a double feature. So, besides highlights video, there is the short feature which is the wedding as we wanted to edit it, no questions asked, and the documentary edit of the ceremony and the reception. So, everybody's happy (at least that's the response till now).

"So, besides highlights video, there is the short feature which is the wedding as we wanted to edit it, no questions asked."

I appreciate that this may never have happened to you but what do/would you do it there were questions asked when the couple see your final cut and for some reason don't like it and ask you to make some changes?

Don't take this as being provocative but in my experience there are couples lurking out there who are with you all the way until they want their way.

George, this is a good question. No problem has been occured though, maybe we are just lucky or maybe there are a couple of reasons for it. One is that we let them know from the beginning that the editing style is something that's up to us, completely. If there is some editing mistake or something really serious we forgot about, then, well, we'll have to apologise and fix it. It hasn't happened but we are always prepared for everything. Second is that we generally book expensive weddings. And -our- experience shows that the more expensive the wedding, the more high-class the couple, and that means more allowance for our creative freedom. Third posibillity is, that whatever doesn't fit the short form, will fit the documentary. Now, if they insist in what material should go where, then I'd happily lend them the editing suite to do it (I repeat, it hasn't happened yet).

Arrogant? Eccentric? Wrong business plan? I just know that we work too heavily with the footage, and the choice we make are always (we'd like to think so) for the best. Any recommendations are always welcome, but involvement in editing procedure (yes, we've been asked for it some times) simply is not acceptable.

But everything about that is always explained in a civilized and friendly manner, so until now, everything goes smooth.

Our terms and conditions mention in more than one place that the film is "our interpretation of the day."
The couples are made fully aware of the kind of films we like to make and they leave it up to us.

I think with us because they also get the full service and speeches as extras on the DVD you really are hitting 2 birds with 1 stone.

Hi Guys

My old contract (going back several years) allowed an end result that the couple wanted. All went fine until I met a nightmare bride who didn't like the first edit and demanded all the raw footage and after viewing it for probably many many hours arrived to announced "we" were going to re-edit the video to her specifications. Her notes were around 10 A4 pages and we ended up spending 3 DAYS (at 8 hours each) changing this and changing that including ridiculous things like "my husband has his hand on his cheek..cut it out" I cost me pretty close on 24 hours of my time without any payment and my "full editorial control" clause was added to the contract rather fast!!

I think I would rather lose a job that have to put up with a bride who wanted to be part of the editing procedure !! I always make sure they have seen a samples DVD (which has a bunch of different weddings on it) so they know roughly what they are getting and there are no nasy surprises after the wedding and phrases like "but we expected ........."

We are running a business and to do so efficiently we do need to set boundaries. The bride that's looking for the ultimate wedding video perfection is best left to another videographer unless you are prepared to factor in 3 or 4 days of your time for extra editing!!

Chris

Chris that sounds like a nightmare bride, as I mentioned above they are lurking out there.

Like you I've got a few years worth of weddings under my belt and have had very few negative comments about the end product that I present. Like most people here I do lay out both verbally and in writing that what I offer is my overview of the day encapsulated in an entertaining presentation. And of course I show them examples so they are aware of the style, approach and quality of my work.

My comment above was in the spirit of enquiry to those who are so confident of their approach that they will not entertain any request to make changes after the event. My position is that of course I do this work to make money, as much as is possible for as little possible hassle, why work for myself if I have to put up with hassle, but I also do it because I enjoy making something that gives people pleasure. So it really grieves me to have an unhappy bride so I always, hide my annoyance and disappointment - especially when I feel I've made a wonderful film - and make the changes they ask for, within reason. I only give them a week after they receive it to make any request and tell them that it may be sometime before I can get round to it, especially during the busy season when I am giving priority to fresh work as it come up. Quite often that is enough for them to say "We'll keep it as it is then". Anything substantial I charge for.

I have on one occasion had the 'list' but unlike you I have never allowed anyone to sit in on the editing, it's bad enough with business clients who know what they want and will pay by the hour, but wedding clients never.
I've also had the ridiculous requests, The bride's parents were divorced and the father brought his new girlfriend. The bride's mother asked if I could cut her out as much as possible but "just in her copy", and not tell her daughter.
Bride's sister arguing with her boyfriend on the dance floor during the couple's first dance, could I cut them out but keep their dance.
Cut out the best man's speech. Whilst they were on honeymoon he stole from their house so they wanted him off the video but realised it would be a bit much to ask for him to be completely removed (that was considerate of them).
Bride and father dancing to a song, could I change the song as that was one she had specifically asked the DJ not to play

The list goes on. I think that anyone who has done, or will be doing, weddings for 20 years has had or is going to have these sort of post-edit requests.

Maybe I should be more business like and point them to my terms and conditions as I show them the door.

Hi George

Unfortunately sometimes you have to be tough and say, enough is enough...better to have Saturday night off than to spend the next 3 weeks fighting crazy requests from a bride who probably hired your services initially for less than you are truly worth anyway!! I would rather spend an entire weekend with no work than work at a loss!!!

Sometimes I gag at Wedding Pros who talk about spending 60 hours and more editing. I'm sure the resulting edit is outstanding BUT it wouldn't make good business sense to get totally carried away to the point where your nett profit becomes peanuts and having brides that want ridiculous edits will soon eat away at the profits.

I'm sure we would all like to be booked every Friday, Saturday and Sunday of the month throughout the year but not at the expense of our business!! I do have a few tough rules in my terms and conditions but they are there so it runs as a business and not a charity!!

Stay tough

Chris