I now have MS 10 with DVDA from buying a Sony NEX-VG10.

I want to burn 1080i60 to a DVD-R just like I do with Toast on my Mac. (Contrary to what many folks believe this is not an "AVCHD" disc, but does play on some/most BR players.)

Vegas offers MANY ways of burning a Blu-ray disc. Some ways burn directly others create files and others claim the invoke DVDA. Some use AVC and others MPEG-2. Some use stereo AC-3 and others stereo PCM.

DVDA also offers MANY ways of burning a Blu-ray disc. (The docs claim AC-3 is ONLY supported on DVDs.)

Knowing Sony is very particular about the terms Blu-ray and AVCHD, I note that they never claim they can burn a AVCHD disc. Which might logically mean when they say Blu-ray they mean burn on a BD burrer.

Has anyone actually burned a DVD-R with HD content that plays on a Sony BD player?

Please describe how you do it!

PS: Extra thanks to anyone who get a 5.1 AC-3 track created in MS to go on the DVD-R with the HD video.

Yes Steve, I did this; I mean I burned a few AVCHD dicks with HD video on them that I play (still) on my Sony BD Player (BDP-S350).

Actually, it’s quite simple once you realize that authored AVCHD discs that can use DVD media with simple menus and AVC encoding should have a limit data rate to 18 Mbit/s (but not the 25 Mbit/s rate as it is settled in the Vegas for Blu-ray media). Just bear in mind, a conventional DVD disc (single-layer, 12 cm of the diameter) can store not more than half an hour of HD video recorded at this rate.

The pickle here is this: although it’s possible to create your own rendering template (in order to adjust the bitrate from 25 to 18 Mbit/s), I’ve never succeeded to accomplish this in the Vegas Pro 9.0e.

But with the Sony DVD Architect Pro 5 it’s no-brainer.

Same here -- I've found that keeping to around 17-18 mbits, all is well,,,

Sony Picture Motion Browser software that came with my SR7, SR11 and XR500 will author and burn AVCHD on a DVD-R that will play in a Bluray player. It is slow to assemble but works with simple menus. These cameras all of course have bit rates below 17Mbps.
Have not tried with any of my NLE's as I just now burn to Bluray anyway.

Ron Evans

I have used VMS 9 & 10 to make these disks from the timeline and I have used DVDAS5, the Studio version of Architect, to make these disks with menus. Too high a bitrate will result in playback stutter so I keep them at around 15 Mbps and they look and play fine on a Sony BDP-BX2 and a friend's LG BD player.

Sony support calls these disks "Blu-ray on DVD" because they create the Blu-ray disk folder/file structure but they alter the two control files to fool the BD player into thinking it is looking at an AVCHD disk.

If you have VMS10 then you also have DVDAS5. I don't have DVDA so I don't know the capabilities but I can tell you that the Studio version of Architect only supports PCM stereo on Blu-ray. There is no support for AC-3 nor 5.1 audio on Blu-ray and Blu-ray on DVD.

Yes Steve, I did this; I mean I burned a few AVCHD dicks with HD video on them that I play (still) on my Sony BD Player (BDP-S350).

The pickle here is this: although it’s possible to create your own rendering template (in order to adjust the bitrate from 25 to 18 Mbit/s), I’ve never succeeded to accomplish this in the Vegas Pro 9.0e.

But with the Sony DVD Architect Pro 5 it’s no-brainer.

1) When you say 25Mbps it sounds like you used MPEG-2 not AVC. The AVC template is limited to 16Mbps.

2) I was wrong -- in VMS there is a AVCHD template that creates a .m2ts file. I then mux and burn this and create a perfect BDMV disc that plays fine. (And, yes a can make 2.0, 4.0, or 5.1 AC-3.)

3) What I can't find is anything in MVS or DVDA that will burn an AVCHD disc. The choice is DVD or BD. And, a BD has a slightly different structure than an AVCHD disc. (I just rechecked DVDA 5.0 and although disc properties shows 4.7GB the disc format is called Bluray. Moreover, DVDA doesn't support AC-3 except on DVDs. It seems totally useless.)

Can you give me a step by step from MVS to DVD-R or from DVDA to DVD-R.

DVDA will certainly make Bluray with either PCM, AC3 stereo or AC3 5.1 with video as MPEG or AVC. All these can be set/changed under 'properties' from the file dropdown menu and certainly when starting a new project , also selected from the file menu. Starting a new project requires one to set these parameters to start the project but they can all be changed and files substituted as needed.

I also thought that to playback AVCHD from a Bluray player any disc type had to be encoded as a Bluray which would apply to a 4.7G DVD. PS3 may be different as it can play selected files from the disc.

It's late now but I will make a disc tomorrow on a 4.7 G DVD from DVDA and report back. I know it all works for Bluray as that is what I do all the time. I often can't squeeze the PCM audio on to the Bluray and substitute the AC3 file instead.

Ron Evans

There is no support for AC-3 nor 5.1 audio on Blu-ray and Blu-ray on DVD.

If you are talking about AVCHD, then AC-3 is supported and so is 5.1. Camcorders burn discs or SD cards.


PS: the DVDA STUDIO docs specifically state AC-3 is only available for DVDs not BD.

Steve:

Regarding your comment that “a BD has a slightly different structure than an AVCHD disc” I can only respond with this:

It strongly depends upon what you classify as “an AVCHD disc“. If you mean the directory structure created on memory card (or any other media storage) by AVCHD video format, then yes, it’s slightly different from the BD specification.

First and foremost, in the AVCHD structure, names of directories and files comply with 8.3 DOS standard (no more than 8 characters for filename, no more than 3 characters for file extension), while Blu-ray standard uses long names for directories and files.

Then, AVCHD directory INDEX.BDM is named index.bdmv in BD; MOVIEOBJ.BDM corresponds to MovieObject.bdmv; all AVCHD files with extensions of MPL become *.mpls files in BD; the extensions of CPI change to *.clpi, MTS to m2ts. Also BACKUP directory does not exist in CERTIFICATE folder of AVCHD but does in BD.

However, in practical terms, a DVD-R disc with HD video (i.e. a Blu-ray project on DVD media), burned with, for example, the DVD Architect Pro 5, does not differ from analogous Blu-ray disc (the Blu-ray project on Blu-ray Disc).

So, to create such disc, you need just to select “Blu-ray Disc” as your project Disc format and 4.7 GB as the Target media size.


I’ve enclosed a screenshot of my own project in DVDA 5 to make the explanations more tangible.

Arkady has provided a much better explanation.

I have just made project from 15 mins of AVCHD from my NX5U, edited in Vegas and exported as Sony AVC at 18Mbps as well as an AC3 file from Vegas of this region. Started a DVDA project using the Bluray preset, AVC 1920x1080-60i 16x9 and AC3 as starting points. As with Arkady's view using properties changed disc size to 4.7, made sure video was AVC and audio AC3. Placed chapter markers and menu. Burned 4.7G disc. All plays fine on my PS3 and Sony Bluray players just like any other Bluray disc.

I only have DVD Pro 5.0 so cannot comment on DVDA Studio but would be very surprised if it was much different since the whole point is for consumers to burn their AVCHD discs edited from Sony AVCHD camcorders!!!!

Ron Evans

"... exported as Sony AVC at 18Mbps as well as an AC3 file from Vegas of this region. Started a DVDA project using the Bluray preset, AVC 1920x1080-60i 16x9 and AC3 as starting points."

OK -- you exported two files rather than one .m2ts file.

Then you added the two files to DVDA. Exactly which button did you set when you burned the BD disc?

Once I finished the authoring and pressed Make Bluray Disc, which opens up a window with choices of Prepare or Burn. I choose Burn. You then get a Select image page and choice of current project or Previously prepared image and the file naming box for the image file.Next window is the Review Message List, which will warn of any re renders etc that may need to be optimized ( coming from Vegas there should be none). Next page is Select Burn Parameters where you can choose burner etc. Click finish and the disc will be burned. Done. An image file will be created but I know for instance that Nero will not burn it on a DVD ( at least my version of Nero) but DVDA will burn again if needed.

Ron Evans

DVDA will take a file directly from my XR500 as m2ts but will ree-encode the audio ( I think it demuxes and changes data rate) The files from Vegas are .AVC and AC3.

PS: the DVDA STUDIO docs specifically state AC-3 is only available for DVDs not BD.

This also means that DVDA Studio 5.0 can only do BDs or any high-definition discs with LPCM audio. And DVDA Studio's PCM audio on HD exports to disc is limited to stereo, 16-bit and 48 kHz. If you want AC-3 on a high-definition disc with Vegas, you'll have to spend the extra dough for the Pro.

I find it difficult to believe that Sony would create a consumer authoring program that could not burn output from its own AVCHD camcorders which are all AC3. I can believe that DVDA Studio will not encode to AC3 for a Bluray disc, maybe there is a licensing issue. If it is like DVDA 5.0 then its possible to create a single movie disc by just dragging a file to the menu screen and then burning the disc. If this file is an AVCHD file from a Camcorder it will ( if its like DVDA 5.0) demux the AC3 audio file and then burn. Would someone with DVDA Studio try this? I may just try the demo tomorrow.

Ron Evans

Update
Just downloaded DVDA Studio and indeed it does NOT support AC3 on Bluray. PCM is the only choice on the properties . Honestly don't know why anyone would buy this.

...Just downloaded DVDA Studio and indeed it does NOT support AC3 on Bluray. PCM is the only choice on the properties . Honestly don't know why anyone would buy this.
Don't know anything about camcorders that record AC3 or NLE decoders for same...

But, as to the question above... Money. IIRC, Studio versions of Vegas/DVDA cost somewhere less than $100US, and sometimes are freely bundled with camcorders. To include an AC3 encoder would require Sony to purchase a license from Dolby Labs. I suspect they think a hobbiest doesn't care, or, if they do care, they'll pony up for Pro.

Why would someone buy Studio versions? Inexpensive and good enough for many uses.

Just downloaded DVDA Studio and indeed it does NOT support AC3 on Bluray. PCM is the only choice on the properties .

And if that AVCHD footage has AC3 audio instead of LPCM audio, DVDA Studio will re-convert AC3 to LPCM upon authoring to Blu-ray.

What is a little silly is the Movie Studio HD Platinum does encode AC3 and will make Bluray from timeline. So the editing program will encode but the authoring program will not !!! How confusing for consumers.

Ron Evans

I just checked my VMS10 under Tools/Burn Disk/Burn Blu-ray Disk.... only PCM stereo audio is available - which is fine for this consumer - the price is right. Isn't PCM audio supposed to be superior to AC-3?

Isn't PCM audio supposed to be superior to AC-3?

It is indeed superior.
PCM is uncompressed audio while AC-3 is compressed similar to MP3 (approx. 10:1).

I just checked my VMS10 under Tools/Burn Disk/Burn Blu-ray Disk.... only PCM stereo audio is available - which is fine for this consumer - the price is right. Isn't PCM audio supposed to be superior to AC-3?

Yes as Mike says PCM is superior but takes up a lot more space on the disc. If the source is AVCHD camcorder( with AC3 audio) it has already lost any quality advantage PCM might have had so re-encoding to PCM does not gain any advantage over AC3 of the original. The Platinum version of VMS does encode AC3 Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10 Product Comparisons (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/moviestudiope/compare) though it is not clear if this applies to a Bluray from the timeline.



Ron Evans

No. In fact the lack of clarity has hacked off some people. You can't tell what audio is supported on the particular target media. In VMS 5.1 audio and AC-3 audio is only supported on DVD. Blu-ray media only supports PCM stereo audio in VMS. Hope that's clear enough.

I used DVDA5 to burn a 10-minute video, 1920 x 1080 30, using a Bluray burner, media is DVD-R. My Panasonic BD35 standalone Bluray player says "Format not supported". On my computer, Arcsoft Total Media Theater 2 couldn't play it either (Format not supported). However, VLC and Nero both were able to play the DVD.

IF you meant 1920x1080 30P then it is not a supported Bluray format. Only 1920x1080 60i, 1280x720 60P and 1920 x1080 24p are supported for NTSC. What encoding did you use?

Ron Evans

IF you meant 1920x1080 30P then it is not a supported Bluray format. Only 1920x1080 60i, 1280x720 60P and 1920 x1080 24p are supported for NTSC.

By extension, 30P at any resolution is not a supported frame rate for discs to be played back on any standalone video player. 30P video must be manually converted to 60i before authoring onto disc.