Maybe I'm paranoid but I have always thought that sometimes shots from my EX1 look a tad soft. I don't have the benefit of a broadcast monitor and just looking on my monitor I sometimes just think the picture should be sharper.

I know FCP is no way to judge and any dvd projects I do are always delivered SD. I don't know if these stills will even help.

What do you guys think?

The first pic is zoomed right in, peaking used to focus.

Te second is full wide.

I had no picture profile on and know about the aperture range for the lens so focus is maintained.

Thanks

Important. What F stop were these shots taken at - is it in the sweet spot for the lens?

Hi Andy,

Between 1.9 and 4 if I remember correctly

Good. That'll do - so that's that one eliminated. Can you post full res (1920x1080) frame grabs? - I don't think these are as when I just opened them they only filled the middle of my monitor.

I normally try to shoot between 1.9 and 5.6. is that ok? Will try and post stills

Well, those shots filled 3/4 of my 1920x1080 monitor, and compared to my own EX-1 stills shot at 1920x1080, they look DECIDEDLY soft - but again, as noted, the aperature is absolutely critical for the sharpest shots! There are plenty of targets around for resetting back focus - and it can be a pain, but have you tried a reset on back focus. Of course the gold standard to test back focus as far as this sometimes ignorant editor is aware, is to zoom all the way out at a far object with the sweet spot aperature setting and obtain the very sharpest focus using the great aids on this camera, then pull back to the widest zoom on the same scene, obtain the sharpest focus, and then zoom all the way in and see if the focus holds up! If it doesn't, then your back focus is defective.

When I first obtained my EX-1. it looked really soft, and I performed the foregoing proceedure - oooops! The backfocus was TERRIBLE. Using target cards, I reset the backfocus, and it was still
really defective, so I sent it back to Sony under warranty, and they repaired it. After I received it
back, I again tested the backfocus using the aforementioned procedure, and it was as perfect (and as sharp as could be. That was over a year ago - I haven't retested it since, but just eyeballing my
productions (1920x1080 30p) on my largest test screen (109 inches), EVERYTHING looks great,
unless I either go to one extreme or the other on aperature, or in run and gun don't have the time to first zoom all the way in for sharpest manual focus, and then pull back to compose the shot.

Your query is soooooo relevant - good luck on the eventual outcome. In its price range, as everyone
knows, when this camera is properly st up, sharpness is just awesome and can't be beat!

Hi William,

Yeah I did try a back focus but still looks the same. I have attached these images from a focus chart.

I may not be far enough away but see what you think? I thought I would easily see if I had a problem. I zoomed all the way in focussed and then out as seen in the shots.

Here are my settings...

1080 25p
1/33 shutter
F4 stop
No picture profile

Dear Darrin:

Well, I don't know what to say at this point, so I'm bowing out! That f stop of 4.0 is obviously ideal, and you used the same (very popular) back focus chart which I did - the only varience in my procedure was
that I used 12 full charts to totally fill the frame, etc.. Your wide angle shot with your equipment rack, etc., just looks decidedly soft to me.

At this point, I'll leave it to brighter editors than I, hopefully, to comment on your situation. Again, best wishes for a successful resolution (pun intended).

Thanks for your input William.

I may try back focussing again. I followed the procedure as stated here...


Adjusting Back Focus On An XDCAM EX Camera on Vimeo

I'm going to go for a few tries and if not then it looks like a Sony service is need. Camera well out of warranty!!!!!!!!! Yikes......that aint cheap!

hi Darren,
If you are following the video tutorial, you are doing everything right!
The only thing that comes to mind is that you would need a lot more light to do the proper BF. Try again before you run to Sony...
Cheers

Hi Luben,

The pictures I uploaded were for focus purposes. When I did the back focus adjust I used a blank wall and had room lights on and a red head set up. I would of thought enough light and I thought over exposing might ruin the adjustment! I am a bit confused as with that much light the camera complains. Perhaps I should do it outside, what are your thoughts??

I may even move the camera slightly closer to the chart. I will definitely give it another go.

I always thought there may have been issues, at the moment I feel pretty low about the prospect of having to shell out lots to Sony.

Many thanks guys, much appreciated.

Bright day is a great idea. The distance should be no more then 3 meters or in North American terms less then 10 feet and no closer then 2 meters/ ~7 feet. Light is the key and don't forget the auto focus on the camera must be on. I am sure you've done it right the first time, but try again. I found different BF performances with different light, that why I suggested more light for better adjustment. Good luck and post results.
Cheers

Thanks Luben,

Nice to get some positive feedback. I hate the feeling something is up with my camera!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, Darrin, despite my bowing out, here I am again....reminds me of the old song, "The Cat Came Back...He Just Couldn't Stay Away".

Great tutorial, and it wasn't even around when I backfocused my EX-1 - thanks for the reference.

I followed a backfocus procedure that was quite similar to that on the Vimeo presentation. To be more precise (if my memory serves me well, since it was 1 1/2 years ago, when my EX-1 was 1 month old and of course well within warranty - and since we all remember traumatic experiences better than bland ones, and since this was traumatic I think I remember it well [I'm professionally qualified to make the last statement, because I'm not only an event videographer, but a licensed clinical psychologist with extensive reading in the field of neurological psychology over the last four years}) here is the procedure I followed:

Camera set up outdoors, on very stable tripod, approximately 9 feet from a very highly textured brick wall, with lens absolutely perpendicular to the wall, in mid-late morning bright sunlight shining directly on the wall. Camera auto focus set up as outlined in the Vimeo presentation. I believe, but couldn't swear that ND filter in some position was on, with aperature set to f4.0. The reason I ended up using 12 of the charts similar to the ones you exhibited above was so that the high contrast target not only filled the viewfinder when zoomed all the way in, but also a very substantial area, when zoomed out; this probably reflected my OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, of which, like most OCDs, I'm very proud, despite the dismay of all my friends), but by golly, I did it right!

Now, having followed that procedure because of the apparant soft focus of my brand new EX-1, I was chagrined that the results were negative. So I ran them twice more with the same results - and it was at this point that I decided to send the camera to Sony (good grief, even though under warranty, well over $200 shipping including insurance, for a brand new camera). After weeks at their West Coast facility, they repaired it - I ran the test again, and it was perfect! What a shame that this superb camera had so many defects straight out of the box - flaking finish, disappearing lables, etc., etc.. And from their Broadcast Division - I've never had another camera from Sony Broadcast, let alone ANY of their consumer cameras with so many defects. But then I've never had such a great camera as this! Since two trips to Sony Service under warranty, it has continued to produce absolutely stunningly positive results!

Finally, I have three concluding thoughts:

1) Unfortunately for me, the first relates to my camera, and in particular results from the comment of one of the fellows above - to wit, given that it had been over 18 months since I've run a back focus reset, and despite the fact that I think my results are sharp, its time for another traumatic test.

2) As the Vimeo presentation suggested, if your first backfocus run didn't produce the results expected, it might be worth it to run a couple more, and see if you have an improvement.

3) Most importantly: I gave my subjective opinion above about your illustrated test shots - it was just an opinion (although an informed one). But what I, and particularly you should be most interested in:

WHAT IS THE OPINION OF ALL YOU OTHER SHOOTERS OUT THERE ABOUT THE ADEQUACY AND SHARPNESS OF DARRIN'S SHOTS?????????????

Excuse the shouting, but given my as usual overwritten comments, I needed this to stand out above the static! I depend upon this forum for expert response more than any other, just because of the superb and sometimes high volume responses I've had to my queries. What do others of you see?

Hi William,


A truly adorable post! Many thanks.

What a wonderful jump from clinical psychologist to videographer. I think back focus adjustment is something OCD would actually be a benefit in! The adjustment seems an acutely inaccurate science but I shall give it another try!

Just one question....when I did the adjustment I pushed the focus ring forward but does the auto focus switch have to be set to AUTO?? It isn't mentioned in the above video. Could be a major duh moment on my part!!!!!

Quote: -
does the auto focus switch have to be set to AUTO?? It isn't mentioned in the above video. Could be a major duh moment on my part!!!!!

It may not be mentioned in the video but it is mentioned on page 33 of the manual (see above). According to the manual it should be on.

What I have not seen mentioned is what aperture one should aim for. I would guess the camera's task would be easier if the adjustment could be undertaken at full aperture and thus minimum depth of field.

Hi Alistair,

Ah, thanks for that conformation. That shall be included in my next attempt this weekend.

I too have wondered about the aperture. If conducting the adjustment outside surely ND filtering is needed so the whole thing isn't blown out and the sweet spot for F stop can be obtained. As far as I know the adjustment should be done with no ND's in.

Hi Darren,

Placing a filter behind the lens effectively shortens the light path and changes the focal point. However when neither ND filter is used there is a clear "filter" in place, at least in my EX3. I would assume that this is to ensure the same apparent length of optical pathway whether there is an ND in place or not meaning that filter selection is unimportant.

However I suspect aperture selection could well have an effect. Any comments?

Hey Darren,
Please, just be sure that your camera is on full auto focus and let the camera do the job. I said that in my previous post. Full auto focus is the only thing that is required from you, plus light on the card. No ND filter at all. Plane, clean lens with/out clear filter (UV or IR like 486 Digital UV/IR), thats all. Good luck with it. Post how did go please.
Cheers

Cheers fella's,

All good input. Will be testing again tomorrow hopefully (friends birthday this evening so I may be somewhat delicate tomorrow!)

I will follow all your advice. Something I totally forgot was to remove my T1 filter. Wonder if it makes a difference??

Will try and post results forthwith!

Keep the aperture as wide as possible to avoid depth of field sharpness.

Not sure why the Andy in the video recommends using 1080 60i, I can't see what difference that will make, especially if you normally shoot 24, 25 or 30p.

Any suggestions?

Hi guys,

Attached are the latest stills after back focus adjustment.

This time I removed my T1 filter and had the focus switched to the AUTO position! Also had ah F stop of 4.

I think the shots look a little better but still not sure.


Let me know what you guys think.

Much appreciated

Yep, better lit and sharper. Look OK to me.

Cheers Andy,


I can definitely see an improvement. I think sometimes you look at something so much you can get lost!

This does seem better though!

Hey, stop pixel peeping and spend the time to make some nice films/have fun with your camera!

Great advice for us all Andy!!

I sympathize with your problems trusting backfocus for the camera to the cameras electronics.You can still get a chart to see if there are any problems which show up.
I know the procedure I use for lenses with manual backfocus is critical to getting the right result. I use a backfocus chart from Arri, expose the chart with the f Stop wide open (either decrease the amount of light on the chart if it is too bright or use ND if the ND is built in) focus zoomed all the way in and then pull out full wide. Adjust to maximum sharpness. If you use a smaller F Stop then your results will not be correct when the lens is wide open. You have to be close enough to the chart so the pattern on the chart shows up clearly so depending on the size of the chart you may have to move closer to it but on zoom lenses you still should be farther than minimum focus but not necessarily ten feet away.
For Lenses with extenders do the back focus with out the extender. Check the result with the extender in to see if your lenses extender has problems or needs adjustment as the extender can give you a different result if it is not correctly aligned.

Anyone knows where I can download a Siemens Star to print?
The guy who had it last time I checked backfocus lives far from me..

Hi Pietro,


I got my charts from here..

Free Charts (http://www.dsclabs.com/free_charts.htm)

I coloured mine in after printing just to give them more contrast

Darren

thank you very much.

pietro

Darren -- very good thread. l just got an EX1R recently and haven't tested back focus yet. Will be printing out a chart. Going to do some reference shots and frame grabs so I have something to compare to in the future.
The attached JPEG is the before & after shots you posted - put into a single 1920x1080 image. I desaturated it to make it a little easier to concentrate on the focus.
To me the 2nd one has a lot more contrast which might make it seem like it has better focus. When I zoom in they look pretty close to me. The candelabra and the text on the CD spine labels seem about the same.... the jaggies on the test pattern seem about the same. I didn't adjust the image in any way other than desaturating it.

Hi Keith,

Desaturating looks a good move to help test the focus. I think I have it as close as I can to being a good adjustment. What did you think of the stills? When you do get some grabs post them up, I'd love a look at what you have got.

The thing is I have nothing to really compare mine too.

Darin

I am an EX1 owner of over a year, My back focus has gone out a couple of times and I have fixed it using the auto back focus adjustment successfully. One thing I notice about your environment is there is an awful lot of clutter behind your chart. I always go out of my way to do the test on a smooth white wall. I use three Fuji chart which they gave to me for free. One in the middle and two off to the sides. I tech the camera at 7' because that is an actual number on the lens.

Hi Bob,

The pictures I posted were not where I actually did the test. They were just shots to try and get an idea of the focus after the test. The procedure was carried out on a blank wall.

Got a job on next week so hoping my back focus is ok for that.

I want to propose a new method.. This is for the Ex1. Not tried on any other.

All previous attempts have failed for me. They seem to work, but only with approx 90% sharpness.

First perform a test where you place your star chart (or some object) 5 feet away. Zoom all the way in. Focus. Then zoom all the way out. Now move your focus wheel up to infinite. If you experience a sharpness gain, Then your BF is not 100% in place. (this may be hard to see on the camera LCD)

Therefore I did a new attempt. And here is what I did.

Put this chart on a computer LCD monitor: http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/star-chart-bars-full-600dpi.png

Make sure the lcd is located close up against a wall. Turn down the brightness so it dosnt over expose compared to the background wall.
Place your camera exactly 5 feet away, target it on the lcd, and turn your manual focus marker to 5 feet(focus ring to Full Manual setting). Zoomed in focus should be optimal.
Run the auto BF adjustment. Using an LCD as a backfocus target, seems to work perfect. Not only does the chart itself help, but so does the aliasing and CA from the monitor. You wont be in doubt when the backfocus is spot on.

How do you test?

After the auto BF adjust.. Zoom in.. Focus. Take notice of the area of confusion (the area that looks blurred in the ceter). While zooming out look on your camera lcd. The area of confusion may not change size. (meaning may not change size compared to the camera screen size, not the chart)

Then you can run another test by moving your focus ring back and forth while zoomed out.. If you end up with the sharpest image (smallest area of confusion) at 5 feet. You have a perfect backfocus.

Hi Dominik,

Sounds interesting. May give it a go.

What do the rest of you guys think??

I haven't looked over this whole thread so I don't know if it was mentioned earlier but I was having trouble with the auto-back focus until someone explained to me the extremely important caveat that:

All settings on the camera must be on auto
auto focus
auto iris etc
maybe even auto white

Doesn't work otherwise - God knows why.

Lenny Levy

Which infact is wrong since the camera takes control of these no matter what your settings are. Only Servo Zoom is nessessary.

Dominik, were you responding to me? If so, I have no idea what you're talking about - don't understand what you mean about servo zoom.

Looking back over this thread I see that it was explained that you had to be in auto focus - missing from the Abel Cine video .

I was told by a sony repairman in LA and another tech at a shop I use that the camera had to be in all auto functions for the auto back focus to work. When I did that that the process worked fine. Don't have any idea why. It may be that only autofcus is important but why not just go full auto. I did it at 24P and it worked fine but it makes sense to go 60i as the autofunctions just work better in 60i as it samples more often.

Yes Leonard I was replying to you. The servo zoom is the only switch that cant be overridden electronically (and the ND filters ofcoruse). Thats why its the only one that counts..

If you don't believe me, take your camera and perform some tests. Close down the iris, put your focus to infinite, change your shutterspeed to something rediculous, go full manual on all functions and then perform the Auto FB.

I can assure you that what instantly will happend is for the Iris to go wide open. Your focus to go macro, your shutter go to something that wont over or underexpose, and if the setting is to dim, it will add some gain. The only function that will NOT let you perform the FB is if your zoom is set to manual.

Please do not reply to this untill you have tried it out. (there is a slight chance that an older firmware requires you to go full auto, but if you have updated it to the latest, then my argument holds up).

There seems to be a lot more stipulations, with regards to completing a successful back focus adjustment, every time I read something on this thread.

Would probably help if Sony actually issued some definitive information!

Dominik, Yeah you might be right. I'm not planning to try it again though as its working.

I don't remember how I was set up when the procedure didn't work but its possible that I didn't even have the focus barrel pushed into place for auto. I usually leave the servo on and the focus barrel disconnected for manual. I'm just passing on what I was told by the Sony repair department though and when I tried all Auto it worked. I'm not really sure what I changed after talking to him.

Dominik has it right here. The only prerequisite is sliding the zoom switch on (with it at off position, the Flange Adjust will be grayed out in the Maintenance Menu, and thus inactive).

All the other settings will be taken care of by the procedure itself.

While we're at it: does anyone know what prerequisites are necessary for the Auto Black procedure to become active?