Lav Shootout! Sennheiser Me-2 / Tram TR50 / Sanken COS11D / RØDE Lavalier on Vimeo


Hear the different characteristics of these four lavaliere mics and decide for yourself which one is best for you. Also you'll hear how well these lavs cut against the RØDE NTG-3 shotgun microphone.
Thank you to Guy Cochran and DveStore for providing the Rode Lav and an extra Sennheiser G3 wireless system to do the shootout with.

RØDE Lavalier: http://www.dvestore.com/​products/​RODE-Lavalier-Mic.html
Sanken COS11D: http://www.dvestore.com/​products/​Sanken-COS11D-lavalier-for-Sennheiser-Wireless.html
Sennheiser G3 Wireless: http://www.dvestore.com/​products/​Sennheiser-EW-112P-G3-Wireless-System.html
Tram TR-50: http://www.dvestore.com/​search.php?search_query=tram&x=0&y=0
RØDE NTG-3: http://www.dvestore.com/​products/​RODE-NTG%252d3-Shotgun-mic.html

Thanks, Chad! Great piece and very useful information!

Hi Chad,

Hey, I can't help to write a review of review. Just because it is one of the best lavalier test videos I have even seen. Perhaps the best at this current time.

You did a truly fantastic job. Very professional and likable. Those 7 minutes flew by quickly and they felt like 40 seconds because it is very nicely done. You can tell that: you know what you are talking about, you LOVE what you do and that you have plenty of experience.

As an Actor myself, I can tell you I like your charming personality. The camera likes you, you look mellow, humble, cool and NOT full of yourself. The kind of videos you say 'Hey, I'd like to be friends with that cool guy'.

I also like that you go straight to the point. You have a very clear purpose on you video and you deliver by going for it. On the technical side, you can SEE the products very well and HEAR them very clearly as well.

I assume you used your EX1 to shoot it because that is on your signature, but I cannot tell for sure. What aperture and ISO values did you use?

Lighting is very sweet as well. Did you use a 3 lights set up? You can nicely see your hair and shoulders. What did you use for lighting the scene?

Editing was also truly great. I really enjoyed your video, I know you know but you are providing this free service for people who are researching to pick the best quality and value for their buck and that is so nice of you to do; so THANK YOU!!

Bravo! I like your tiger shirt. Cool!

Thanks Chad. I was somewhat impressed with how little difference there was in the mikes. All of them sounded pretty good, but to my ears the new Rode sounded the best (and I love the connector and case). I don't know how much Vimeo impacts the sound of your shootout and I imagine if you had someone singing and projecting their voice the differences would be more substantial.

Thanks for a great job!

Thanks Ben! That's very thoughtful. I did have fun making it, though it was a bit of work to shoot in such a small little studio, which is basically a bedroom. I'm glad you thought I came off as mellow and natural. I was a bit uncomfortable being in front of the camera rather than behind it. I would love to do this for a living, as I spend enough time perusing gear and participating in audio/video forums. Yes I shot it with one of my EX1s, at f.8. -3db gain. I added some minor color correction and some Magic Bullet Looks for a more filmic look. I had a 650 Arri light in a soft box, with an articulating floor lamp from Ikea for a fill, because I was too lazy to set up another "real" light. Then I had this cool stand called a CombiBoom I used for my LED light as a hair light. That thing lets you put a light in odd positions, as you will see in this short clip of the setup, that the stand was out the door.

Room Setup
YouTube - Room Set Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDpxRklITKY)

Combi Boom - great for mics and lights.
YouTube - Manfrotto 420B Combi boom stand for lights or microphones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gvOO9hUvNI)

Roger, I actually think the mics have a big difference between them, and I can hear it clearly on Vimeo too. I'm listening on studio monitors though. The tram is way darker than the others, and the ME-2 has this plasticy high end, and the Cos11, and Rode Lav seem somewhat similar to each other. But I was listening to these things for 2 days. Give it another listen with nice headphones on and see what you think.

Thanks for this. The COS11D and the RODE sound the best to my ears.

Chad,

my first listen was through PC speakers, nice but definitely not studio monitors. I gave another listen through headphones and the ME2 did in fact fall in the rankings! I'm torn between the Sanken and the Rode. The Sanken has the most open sound but is a little overly bright to my ears. I really like the flexibility of the Rode connection.

Chad,
Nice job. I'm really glad you mixed in the NTG-3 as well. I think the Rode-Rode combo is tough to beat. Thanks for putting this together.

Thanks Ben! That's very thoughtful. I did have fun making it, though it was a bit of work to shoot in such a small little studio, which is basically a bedroom. I'm glad you thought I came off as mellow and natural. I was a bit uncomfortable being in front of the camera rather than behind it. I would love to do this for a living, as I spend enough time perusing gear and participating in audio/video forums. Yes I shot it with one of my EX1s, at f.8. -3db gain. I added some minor color correction and some Magic Bullet Looks for a more filmic look. I had a 650 Arri light in a soft box, with an articulating floor lamp from Ikea for a fill, because I was too lazy to set up another "real" light. Then I had this cool stand called a CombiBoom I used for my LED light as a hair light. That thing lets you put a light in odd positions, as you will see in this short clip of the setup, that the stand was out the door.

Room Setup
YouTube - Room Set Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDpxRklITKY)

Combi Boom - great for mics and lights.
YouTube - Manfrotto 420B Combi boom stand for lights or microphones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gvOO9hUvNI)

Hey Chad,

Well, you might well do this for a living. This video was a proof you have the knowledge and experience necessary to do it. And you are good because you truly have passion for it and you see it on your video. Audiences are very smart and we can feel how you feel. It came out really well, once again you did a wonderful job. Always fun to watch. I have to say again I love that desk you have.
I checked Guy's video about the Manfrotto 420B. I added to my wish list.

I've recently got the following C stand:

Avenger A2030D Turtle Base Century C Stand Grip Arm A2030DKIT -


I am very happy with it, but the Manfrotto will propably become my second stand.


Any recomendations for lighting kits?

I currently have no lights and never owned one before but I am trying to get a nice set. Budget is limited but flexible. Like the best bang for you buck indie standard kind of deal...

I found this one as an example:

Lowel DV Creator 1 Kit, GO-85 Case DV-901Z - B&H Photo Video


Guy's videos are super cool and yours are too!!

Actually I do video/audio stuff for a living. I just don't get in front of the camera and present stuff. It was a fun job and hope to do more.

The lights I used were not my own. They are one of my employers. I have been looking at light kits, and I really want at least one soft box. That Arri that I used was a 650, and with the box on, it's not as bright as I would expect, That kit has 2x 650s and 2x 350s, a soft box, stands and gels. They go for 2,500.00 or so new. We got it in trade. Same for the desk! This video guy was getting rid of his stuff and we did him a web page for the lights, a lectrosonics wireless unit with the Tram TR50 I reviewed, and the desk, a custom made thing valued at a couple of grand. My boss couldn't fit it in his place so I got it, and am keeping it as trade for me having to buy all my own cameras and gear. So for the rent of my EX1 I'm never letting go of that desk!

Here's a light Kit I have my eyes on: Lowel DVcreator Kit 44 (with soft case and lamps) - DVeStore (http://www.dvestore.com/products/Lowel-DVcreator-Kit-44-%28with-soft-case-and-lamps%29.html)

It's just a little more extensive than your link. Also DVeStore has it for 137.00 cheaper than B&H.

I've considered looking at Britek lights because they are inexpensive, but I don't know. That goes against my "buy quality and be happy" policy.

Chad,

Outstanding tests!

I wanted to throw the Audio Technica AT803 into the mix. It's not for everybody, since it's not a sub-mini and too big to try and hide on talent. But, if all you are looking for is decent sound for a XLR lav at a very reasonable price, then it's definetly something to consider.

Here's an audio clip comparison between the Audio Technica AT803 and Tram TR50:
http://www.juicedlink.com/downloaddata/TramTR50.wav
http://www.juicedlink.com/downloaddata/AudioTechnicaAT803.wav

The AT803 also has a low-cut filter, which was not engaged for this test.


-R

Hi Robert. Thanks!

The AT, surprisingly, sounds more bass heavy than the Tram. I'd be interested to hear the AT with the low cut engaged. In my big JBL LSR monitors I could just feel low end, not necessarily in the voice so much as in the ambiance. That might be a good mic for someone with a higher register voice? The tram in my shootout seemed dull, but I just recorded a Yoga class with it, and it sounded great. Once you acclimate to a mic it's much more palatable than hearing them compared. Hey I'll see if I can get that R-4 Pro test going tomorrow by the way...

Chad,

Here's what I think is going on ...

Specs:
AT803 Sens: -46 dB
TR50 Sens: -57dB
AT803 SNR: 66 dB
TR50 Self Noise: 26 dB

Manufacturers never make things easy, with consistent specs. Assuming everything is A-weighted, I'm assuming the AT803 self noise is 94 - 66 = 28dB

So, the TR50 has a 2dB advantage in noise, but the AT803 has a 11 dB advantage in sensitivity.

I made the recordings through a juicedLink CX231 at max gain, going into a H4n.

The more sensitive AT803 allowed me to throttle back the amp in the H4n further.

I beleive that the H4n at reduced gain produced much more than a 2dB improvement in SNR.


So, the TR50 system noise level was masking the room ambient sound. And with the lower AT803 system noise level, you could hear more of the room ambient tone, (during the quite periods when I wasn't speaking ... which sounds more bass-y than the hiss of the noise with the TR50).


Later, I'll try another clip using the AT803 low-cut filter, for comparison.


-R

Chad,

Here are the full set of clips, including the AT803 with the low-cut filter engaged:
- Tram TR50: http://www.juicedlink.com/downloaddata/TramTR50.wav
- Audio Technica AT803: http://www.juicedlink.com/downloaddata/AudioTechnicaAT803.wav
- Audio Technica AT803 with low-cut filter engaged: http://www.juicedlink.com/downloaddata/AudioTechnicaAT803_wLoCut.wav

I feel that the low-cut filter works well on the AT803 to remove some of the low frequency room tone.

Again, the AT803 is not for everybody. It's not a sub-mini, so it can't be hidden easliy. But, for a budget lav with decent sound, it's something to consider.

-R

I have to say that the AT803 with the low cut engaged sound the best out of the three. The Tram track had a lot more noise. The Lo-Cut engaged 803 got rid of all the unnecessary low rumble, yet preserved the low register of the voice. Not bad for a 130.00 mic!

I'll be doing a demo of my new Rode PinMic as soon as I got over my flu. It's really a cool little mic.

OK I just went and found some shots I did with the Rode PinMic. No music or post processing. Just pure Pin. At the very beginning there is a quick take of one lady using the AT4053b to give you a reference point to compare to. I think the PinMic sounds pretty good here. Proximity seems to be pretty important judging from these tests. The Lady in the black jacket had the mic on the collar of her jacket, and it was closer to where the other two ladies had their mics. So the best place is on the collar, but then there is the issue of if they turn their heads toward the opposite collar. Anyway, I think the mic sounds pretty dang decent.

PS: I still plan on making a full PinMic Demo video, but I'm just getting over the flu, and it's a crazy week this week with Thanksgiving coming fast...

RØDE PinMic Test 1 on Vimeo

Based on your earlier Lav shootout video, Chad, I really like the sound coming out of the Tram Tr-50. It has the right bass, pitch and you're right, warm tone. The test was done in a studio environment so I'm not sure how good it fares on the noise level if used outside or in a crowd setting.

For an initial buy though, since I'm fairly new to audio field, I'm thinking of investing in a Zoom H1 and an AT3350 wired lav. Some reviews have given it a decent score and can be a good alternative to the more expensive wireless lav + system like Sennheiser EW series (which is slightly pricey for me at this point in time).

If I move up eventually, I'd love to try out the Tram TR-50 personally :)

Hi Jimmy

In this test I fond the tram too dark compared to the other mics, but that being said, I have used it on a male yoga teacher while filming his class for his certification, and I fond it to be a rich sounding mic. These days I'm partial to the Rode Lav sound, as it is a nice balance between clarity and fullness. And the fact that I can switch connectors is big. Usually you have to buy a new lav that is wired for a new purpose, but the Rode has connectors for Sennheiser, XLR, 3.5mm Mini Jack, ATwireless etc. Their XLR is like 30.00, and normally to get something like an XLR adapter that converts phantom down to 1v for the mic is around 130.00.

If I had to lav a few people, I would probably put the tram on a woman so her higher register wouldn't be accentuated by a brighter mic like the COS11D.

Thanks for the info, Chad. You’re probably right, I gotta take a listen to a few more samples from Tram in order to draw a more solid opinion on it. Just that when listening to the video, the Tram left a deeper impression on me. It also seems to produce this vintage radio sound to it, albeit richer and cleaner :)

The Rode sounds like a really good option too, especially with the multiple connectors like you mentioned - a cost-saving measure for the long run. I listened to your reviews on Rode Pin mic, and since the sound quality is very close to Rode lav, it seems to boil down to a choice of aesthetic and purpose, don’t you think? They’re both priced the same. Pin mic is great for camouflage while the lav is meant to be completely hidden.

Jimmy, I would say that a regular lav would be the first thing to get, then a PinMic later. I consider a PinMic more of a specialty item. It does point outward, rather than upward like a lav. Also the lav's furry is nicer and more functional. I don't know. I just find I want a traditional style lave more often. You can hide a lav under a shirt where a pinmic, though able to hide in the open, can't go under a shirt unless you have an under shirt, then you are dealing with fabric rubbing. They both sound vrtually the same, with maybe a bit more bass in the lav due to the way it's pointing.

Just my opinion. You like what you like. I'm glad to have both.

Chad, what sort of transmitter were you using on the Røde lav? Your link to the DVeStore didn't work for me, and B&H just sells the mic without a transmitter.

Alex I was using the Sennheiser G3 wireless with the Rode Lav. The Rode Lav is only sold by itself, not with any wireless system. With the Sennheiser G3 system you get the ME-2 for free.

I'll fix that DVeStore link now. When something doesn't work, try the search function on the site.

For some reason I don't have the ability to edit that first post. Here is the link:

RODE Lavalier Microphone (http://www.dvestore.com/products/RODE-Lavalier-Mic.html)

Here's an interview I just conducted where the subject was a male, and I used the Rode Lav, with the included furry. It sounds pretty good! You can barely see the furry at the top right of the zipper, near the collar.

YouTube - LID (Low Impact Development) Miles Slattery Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLxEyndIa88)

Hi, Chad! Boy, Rode mics are really gaining ground and the new lav kit with all the connectors is truly slick! I have two Senni G2 kits and have been using the ME2's that come with the systems, but I may upgrade to the Rodes.

Guys like me really appreciate the tests guys like you and Guy (lots of "guys" in this sentence!) Cochrane do. Yes there are other lav mics to choose from, but you've picked a good cross section of gear. I'm a part timer, so I don't see Sankens in my future.

Thanks again!
Terry

Cheers Terry!

Glad to have helped.