So i went out and bought an 8 foot crane and 7" monitor for a wedding next week. It seemed that the crane was the ONLY thing we were missing since we already have a glidecam, glidetrack, zacuto shoulder rig with follow focus, 3 canon 7d's and a bunch of manfrotto tripods. My question is how PRACTICAL is it to set up this crane and if its worth it? My assumption is that it should be used primarily for the ceremony, in the very back of the room....but I could be wrong? So for all you pro cinematic wedding videographers that utilize a crane/jib for their weddings, what are your thoughts? Do you use them for other stuff other than the actual ceremony, like the first dance? Cake cutting?

Hey Kelly,

I just picked up a crane myself and while I intend to use it more for corporate, and narrative stuff, I also fully intend to try it for weddings as well. Though that wasn't the reason I picked it up.

I was even thinking subtle pre-wedding shots (ext. church, venue etc.), as well as perhaps in the ceremony. Mine extends in stages to a max of 16' horizontal (and roughly 20' vertical) and I can lock it off there, so it would make a high cover shot if nothing else. They are certainly more work to set-up than a GC, or tripod, so it may not be practical to set it up at the reception as well.

Personally, I will try to avoid the temptation to overuse the jib. I've got a wedding in a couple of weeks that I will likely try some stuff out. I think jib shots are great when used in moderation.

I've used one for outside weddings and a reception where there was plenty of room - it was great for the brides entrance, raising up as the guests stood to capture them come in.

the problem is not just setting the thing up and breaking it down but having an operator who can get the best shots from the tool.

I've used a crane for mostly processional shots during the ceremony or any master shots for the ceremony and reception. I also use it for the first dance to add more variety of movement. I've found that you have got to have a dedicated person for the crane during the ceremony as it's hard to be running around trying to get the crane shot then move to the next station. Reception isn't too bad as you have more time to set things up.

We used to use jibs at weddings a lot more a few years back, but they where quite cumbersome and took a lot of time to set up. Sure, they where impressive and yielded great footage, but it just seemed like a lot of hassle and maybe a touch overkill..... wow, I just realized how funny that statement sounds coming from a guy who does helicopter shots at weddings on a regular basis :P

I just bought a Cobra Crane and plan on using it this weekend for the first time. It reaches 8ft high and is portable. Easy to set up. I tested it in my kitchen this past weekend. It seems pretty cool! It was only $300.

Cobra Crane I is the exact model I use. I agree, very quick setup and it isn't too bothersome to lug around.

Sure, they where impressive

Impressive in the sense of a crane at a wedding makes an impression on most people who see it.

But in the sense of "makes a good impression", I am not so sure. It's the one thing that the "weddings are getting too extravagant" brigade always lights upon.

Most envision jib shots as beautiful shots of the camera floating effortlessly above crowds of smiling people, like you see in the movies. The reality is that you need good equipment and very well practiced operators. Using a jib at a wedding is much harder than you think. We used to set up a Jimmy Jib 10 years ago, but it required full attention at all times. In the end we scrapped using a jib because 1. It takes time to set up a perfectly level and balanced jib 2. A newbie can't operate a jib with acceptable results because newbies have jerky starts and stops, can't compose a shot precisely, or follow action accurately with the joystick. 3. A jib or crane is seen as a big insurance liability. 4. It's not worth all the hassle unless you're charging an extra $1000 or so for the crew and insurance that's required at the venue.

Well damn! This shot my whole plan of using my brand new jib at this wedding on saturay :-( My assistant would be there to operate it, and I would hate to have real piss-pore results from someone who is just "winging" it. Im doing the rehearsal the night before, maybe that would be the best time to use it to get some establishing shots of the whole scene BEFOREHAND so I dont have to stress about t during the actual ceremony.

Since you already have the jib and intend to use it, go ahead and try it out at the rehearsal. Do you have a pan/tilt system? Or are you simply booming the camera up and down/left right? Simple moves are pretty easy. Compound moves are much harder and require a lot of practice. With a compound move, you need to tilt the camera down as you're booming up. Or pan the camera left as you're booming right in order to maintain composition. Shoot the rehearsal then review the footage at home. The biggest problem you may see is shaky starts and stops, and maybe a tilting horizon.

I bought a Kesler 8 ft. crane. While I love the crane and the shots it can I quickly discovered that to really use it to anywhere near its potential I need a powered pan / tilt head and they are very expensive.

I used the crane at an outdoor wedding where it got me fantastic shots BUT between those great shots I needed it to essentially serve as the center wide shot cam and though perfectly balanced it was hard to keep it perfectly still. I have since bought the optional brake but have not had a chance to see how easy it is to apply it and then undo it when you want to move again.

The outdoor wedding I shot with the crane had the bride arriving with her father in a horse drawn carriage and then at the end of the wedding the bride & groom left in it. The coolest thing was that as the carriage came around the venue I slowly craned up and panned left to follow it and just as the carriage was going to go out of frame one of the many bubbles that had been blown drifted up and across the frame at an angle. I swear it looks like a CG effect! LOL.

For this wedding season I hope to acquire a motorized pan / tilt head and utilize the crane more.

I bought a Kesler 8 ft. crane. While I love the crane and the shots it can I quickly discovered that to really use it to anywhere near its potential I need a powered pan / tilt head and they are very expensive.

I was looking at one of these. Seem to be pretty reasonable. Though I'm not sure about the added weight on the Kessler. The Spectrum 7000 http://www.imagewest.tv/servlet/the-203/Spectrum-7000--dsh--Professional/Detail weighs eight pounds.

So I am curious how much you guys charges couples for using a crane?

I can imagine a few shots where a crane would be awesome, but I wouldn't ever want to use one for a wedding. The only exception I would make to that is maybe some cool outdoor shots of the church if you arrive super early.

Then again, I work alone for weddings so anything which requires a lot of setting up, let alone a dedicated operator, is out of the question for me.

Hiring an experienced operator, set up, breakdown, expense of the crane alone... I would also like to know how you charge for this. I just cannot imagine that many brides adding this as an extra "add on" type option, considering what you need to charge to make the whole thing worth it to begin with. I know it looks great from our point of view but do you think a normal client sees this as a valuable enhancement worth spending x amount of dollars on? Maybe a certain tier of clients would just because they can afford it, but I would think most would not.

While I love the crane and the shots it can I quickly discovered that to really use it to anywhere near its potential I need a powered pan / tilt head

I totally agree with your statement. But this is where it will take time to set up and test, and where a newbie falters fighting the controls of trying to coordinate booming, tilting, and panning all at the same time. It really takes a lot of practice as there are tons of things to think about. Focus? Iris? Framing? Booming? Tilting too slow? Panning too fast? Am I going to hit someone on the head if I swing right? You need to always think ahead and be on top of the situation, never behind it. Above all, don't forget to press record. Everyone will be watching you because you'll be the center of attention...lol

It is pretty popular in the Indian/Southeast Asian market. I have seen crane set-ups & can't imagine myself going to the hassle. I do agree, you need an experienced crane operator, the last thing you need is a rookie hitting a chandelier or even worst toppling the Wedding cake.

The more I read here the more I realise that there must be a parallel universe where the sun always shines at weddings, all churches are the size of a hangar, the principals are all trained actors, the clients have TV size budgets and the main aim of the job is to win acclaim and plaudits.

Seriously though this business has as many different clients as there are operators, from the 'one man and his horse' to the fully fledged Hollywood style crews. I could only dream of using a crane at a wedding (and I'd wake up in a sweat).
Having used cranes on corporate work I know that the rigging and balancing and then the practice needed to use it, let alone in a live situation without a safety zone and intrigued members of the public below the jib, would probably make it the very last piece of equipment I'd take to a wedding.

I can only marvel at the knowledge that those who do use this sort of equipment create some truly breathtaking shots that lift their work high above the general standard.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone in UK that is regularly allowed to set up a crane in churches.

For me the danger of using a crane/jib (other than the obvious safety issues) at a wedding is that you would be too tempted to use it for a lot of shots. A single crane shot in a wedding film can generate an amazing cinematic feeling, but if you incorporate several you can lose the impact very quickly. It's just like when people started using steadicam rigs at weddings .. or sliders. Suddenly you have these films that look like they are really promos for the steadicam or slider product. Besides, you can use a steadicam to fake a basic crane shot for nearly the same effect with much less time and effort in setup (and again, safer).

So the key, just as with the steadicam or the slider, is to use them sparingly but with great impact. And the problem for me with that is the time and effort it takes to set up a crane. Steadicam and slider tools are relatively quick and easy to set up, but a crane isn't. So if you invest that time and energy into setting up the crane you're going to be tempted to overuse it.

The other issue I see with cranes is that they are about as unobtrusive as you can get. Steadicams and sliders are pretty benign, but there's nothing benign about a crane. I was at a wedding as a guest once (which really helps change your perspective) where a crane was in action. Although it was very well-operated, it was a colossal eyesore and distraction too. As much as we all want to create the most amazing films for our couples, sometimes we have to remember that this is THEIR wedding day and not OUR feature film shoot.

I was looking at one of these. Seem to be pretty reasonable. Though I'm not sure about the added weight on the Kessler. The Spectrum 7000 Spectrum 7000 - Professional Pan And Tilt System w/ Joystick Controller (http://www.imagewest.tv/servlet/the-203/Spectrum-7000--dsh--Professional/Detail) weighs eight pounds.

Interesting but what concerns me with this unit is the following;

1. Does not say if the joystick is proportional control
2. Does not say anything about speed variability
3. Does not say if can pan and tilt simultaneously

The design is more like that for remote security cameras, etc than for live pan / tilt in video production. In the same price range I am looking at the Proaim Jr on ebay from one of those Indian companies that do knockoffs of name brand pan tilt heads. The Jr. handles cameras up to 15 lbs, has proportional control, simultaneous pan and tilt, and with freight is $545.00 I really wish I could get their "Gold" heavier duty model but it is around $940 or so with freight. These are probably not as durable as the name brand ones but I will only be using it a dozen times a year or so at most. I have had good luck with the Indian version of a steadicam arm and hoping for the same with this.

...I'd be interested to hear from anyone in UK that is regularly allowed to set up a crane in churches.

And I'd be interested to hear how long it takes to do the Risk Assessment.

:)

I have had a crane operator come in with the Kessler model. He is not a pro and has only had practice with this one crane. He got shots of the bride coming down during the ceremony at a winery and a shot of the cake which looks SICK!!! A lot of the shots can go out of focus so he only uses a wide angle lens. One issue is the tilt is off. I don't know if its the operators fault or it is not a good crane. I paid him $450 for the day and he also shot some of the ceremony with the slider and the first dance on a monopod. For me, it is worth it. The highlight video is in process but I know it is going to drum up a lot of business even thou I won't bring it to every wedding. Some weddings it works well for and others it's not possible. I like they way Mayad uses theirs and that's how I use it too.

Worth every penny to hire someone to do it.

Here is another highlight video we did using the same crane and operator: Ro & Cem's Wedding Highlight Video : Ritz Carlton, Half Moon Bay, CA on Vimeo

I forgot to mention that in addition to the one outdoor wedding I used the Kessler crane at to great success there was a strange venue where it saved my butt.

The venue was an old mill or some such building converted to some kind of upscale shopping area (think antique shops, etc). I don't think it is really up and going yet so farily deserted.

They have a large area in front of a pretty staircase going to the second level for seating. The staircase has an initial flight of stairs from both sides going to a platform the perfect size for a bride, groom, and officient. The groomsmen and bridesmaids are positioned on the stairs on each side going up to this platform (more stairs contnue up from this platform to the second story)

Here is the nightmare kicker for a wedding videographer. The way the stairs, platform, and open beamed ceiling above most of the first floor are positioned there is no place to place a center camera.

However the second floor, the reception area, had a solid floor around the open center area where there were large wooden beams across to the other side.

To make a long story short we were able to set up the Kessler crane on the second floor as far back as we could get before the large wooden beams obstructed the view. I then extended the crane as far out towards the middle as it would go with the camera turned left facing the front. I locked it down there and had the center wide shot that was not possible any other way.

It worked great so I see the crane as another tool in my arsenal. At this point I only use it in situations where it is clear it will work to my advantage. As mentioned they are one more thing to have to deal with and even as simple as the kessler is to assemble you still need to allow for at least 45 minutes to assemble the crane, balance it, hook up the camera, LANC control & cables, Monitor & cables, etc. When you are a small two man crew also trying to cover the bride and groom getting ready AND setting up / balancing a steadicam, it becomes a huge burden.

I am excited about the Indian knockoff motorized pan tilt head I am getting next month and look forward to practcing then using it in some weddings this season. Probably only the outdoor ones though.

After a few years of renting, I finally bit the bullet and got a 12' Kessler with all the goodies. While I don't do weddings, I do other types of live events. I've used it for two separate shoots in the last 3 weeks and it has really made some gorgeous video. The tendency to overuse the sweeping moves a crane is known for tends to overshadow the fact that with a remote head, it can be used to simply place the camera where you couldnt with a tripod. My next crane shoot is in two weeks at a live event. We are shooting two camera and the one on the crane will allow me to get much closer to the stage and at a proper height to catch the action. Rather than trying to set a tripod on a platform which always seems to take up a ton of room and is impossible to keep from wobbling.
As for setup/teardown, yeah it's a 30 min job by myself or 20 with help who knows how to do it, but it is one of my favorite tools to shoot with as there's so many things you can do with it.

Robert, are you using a remote pan tilt head with your 12' Kessler? If so which one and what was the learning curve for controlling the crane and pan /tilt controls simultaneously?

My idea is also to use the crane a lot of the time as a standard "locked down" shot but perhaps a bit higher than my tripod allows so to clear an audiences heads.

It is pretty popular in the Indian/Southeast Asian market. I have seen crane set-ups & can't imagine myself going to the hassle. I do agree, you need an experienced crane operator, the last thing you need is a rookie hitting a chandelier or even worst toppling the Wedding cake.

Yeah, we are use a jib quite a few times and I think they are AMAZING at weddings! We hire a Jib op and he provides we provide the cam. He brings an assistant. We just have the couple pay the Jib op directly, so it doesn't come through us. I love editing the Job footage and I don't charge any extra for the edit because the footage is so amazing it's a joy to edit.

Here is a wedding where we use a 27 foot Jib and a real helicopter for shots. It was epic and yes, it was an Indian Wedding..

Ricky + Sonal / Helicopter / Terranea Resort / Feature Film / Wedding Poster / Wedding Trailer / Palos Verdes Wedding Cinematography impressivecreations.com (http://impressivecreations.com/blog/?p=556)

Hope that helps!

Well I ended up using that 8" crane with a 7' lilliput monitor and Canon 7d. The guests absolutely LOVED it! We only used it for the dance portion (Bride and groom first dance, Daddy Daughter dance, drunken bridesmaid dancing) I must say it is a real pain in the #%*! to setup and break down but it was worth it for the nice cinematic shots we got.
Jen and Josh's Wedding Day on Vimeo

My first wedding with a crane. It's the Cobra Crane, straight out of the box. No pan/swivel head and no weights. Takes about 30 seconds to set up. Let me know what you think:

Alison + Alex: SDE January 22, 2011 on Vimeo

Michael,
That's pretty damn good for no weights and a rapid set-up. What length is the jib? I'm assuming that with no weights that it can't be more than 8'. Nice work.

Michael,
That's pretty damn good for no weights and a rapid set-up. What length is the jib? I'm assuming that with no weights that it can't be more than 8'. Nice work.

hey Ken. Thanks. It's 8ft. That's a SDE so I had my editor operate it. He saw the crane for the first time that day.

My first wedding with a crane. It's the Cobra Crane, straight out of the box. No pan/swivel head and no weights. Takes about 30 seconds to set up. Let me know what you think:


Level the jib and camera before shooting...,.

Level the jib and camera before shooting...,.

thanks......

Level the jib and camera before shooting...,.

Warren, I don't mean this as a joke..but where do your brides go on their honeymoon? Here in NJ many of my brides go to Hawaii. I'm curious to where Hawaiin brides go, I'm pretty sure they don't come to New Jersey. ;-)

Hi Mike
Brides here like to go:
1. Neighboring Islands in Hawaii
2. Las Vegas (LV has a nickname of being the 9th Island of Hawaii)
3. Snowboarding in Colorado or Utah
4. Sightseeing in Europe
5. Shopping in NYC or Asia

I saw a bit of American Idol last night, and they were using a jib arm for the auditions. It wasn't set up right. I was shocked to see tilting horizons on national television!

I saw a bit of American Idol last night, and they were using a jib arm for the auditions. It wasn't set up right. I was shocked to see tilting horizons on national television!Many shows go for a deliberately amateurish look (at least I think that it's deliberate:-) in an attempt to appear more 'authentic'. Wobbly handheld shots, bad exposure, white balance & extreme vignetting are all common on TV nowadays.

Many shows go for a deliberately amateurish look (at least I think that it's deliberate:-) in an attempt to appear more 'authentic'. Wobbly handheld shots, bad exposure, white balance & extreme vignetting are all common on TV nowadays.

..or they just use college kids that will work for free so they can add "American Idol" to their resume.

Most envision jib shots as beautiful shots of the camera floating effortlessly above crowds of smiling people, like you see in the movies. The reality is that you need good equipment and very well practiced operators. Using a jib at a wedding is much harder than you think. We used to set up a Jimmy Jib 10 years ago, but it required full attention at all times. In the end we scrapped using a jib because 1. It takes time to set up a perfectly level and balanced jib 2. A newbie can't operate a jib with acceptable results because newbies have jerky starts and stops, can't compose a shot precisely, or follow action accurately with the joystick. 3. A jib or crane is seen as a big insurance liability. 4. It's not worth all the hassle unless you're charging an extra $1000 or so for the crew and insurance that's required at the venue.

Spot on Warren totally agree. The thing is on the day all the venue stuff can change. Huge plants on tall stands, some chandeliers, a bar, anything can suddenly turn up that wasn't there before. So just the paranoia of using a crane over a room full of civilians can be awful.
Saying that we have used them but only on large scale Indian weddings with huge budgets. Because there is so much going on, normally in good sized venues you do get good value from the crane as there are often multipul occurrences of dancing, eating and ceremonies.