I'm losing my mind with information overload. And I'm sure people like me really make people like you really angry. I'm not a videographer. I am only a crazy woman who is obsessed with weddings. I loved being a bride and just can't give up the excitement of it all. On top of being crazy obsessed, I also have a real eye for photo and video. THe problem is my technical ability....not so much there. I want in the biz. I know I can produce a wedding vid that will melt brides....because I was one!!! So, I've been crazy with trying to learn everything I can. I have a little audio and basic video knowlege. I'm actually looking for some inputs on what I need. I get the basics of what....it's the specific what that I am struggling with. I know that I want cams, mics, editing software and so on. Just wish I could have someone make my mind up who has some experience. I am looking at the new Panasonic AG HMC80. Any thoughts? I'm crazy about the idea of the merlin steady set up. I want smoooooth work. Need some advice on audio. Should I use a seperate recorder or just go directly into the cam via xlr? I'm thinking I can handle final cut express learning curve but final cut pro scares me. I have a brand new 27" IMAC for editing. Just any thoughts on the tech stuff? I have all kinds of creative ideas and am really excited to use them. I just have to learn the tech stuff. Thanx for any help...Amanda

Hi Amanda, as the saying goes a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. I wish there was a shortcut for success but shooting a wedding as opposed to being a bride who has an eye for video & photography is a world of difference. I am not discouraging you,as we all started as a rookie at one time or another.

I don't even know where to begin but I think your first learning curve will be how to operate the camera, as you mentioned you have very basic knowledge of video and audio. Learn exposure, white balance, manual focusing, framing, movement, etc, etc. It takes practice, lots of it!

Before even considering a stabilizer, get a decent fluid head tripod first.

Work as a 2nd shooter for an established videographer in your area, observe, learn.

Good luck!

Noel makes a great suggestion, if that opportunity exists in your area, grab it !

Otherwise I suggest "baby steps" and start with selecting a cam you can handle and learn it. After that comes editing, then audio etc, etc, etc.

Information overload, yep, know that feeling well !!! There is so much to learn and decisions to be made, doing it all at once, you are bound to regret some of them. Regretting a decision isn't so bad, it's when it's applied to gear, you are either out that money as you replace it or kinda stuck with what you have.

Welcome and good luck !!!!

I would open an account at Software training online-tutorials for Adobe, Microsoft, Apple & more (http://www.lynda.com) and start learning everything you can about photography and post production. Lynda can teach you just about everything you need to know.

Good luck
Evan

I would second Noel's suggestion to 2nd shoot for someone else whose work you admire. The fact that you were a bride is great and gives you a special perspective, but at the end of the day it won't be among the primary factors that help you create an amazing wedding film. There is sooo much more to the process and it all starts with knowing how to shoot.

So I would start there, and get some experience shooting with someone else who already does know what they are doing. You will learn a lot and when you decide to take on your own first wedding shoot it will be a bit less intimidating. Also, by 2nd shooting you can start to gauge if you really want to pursue this career. From the outside, being a photographer or cinematographer can look like a dream job that is nothing but excitement and satisfaction. But in reality these are difficult fields to be in, and this is especially true for the video side. I think you really need to test your 'passion' and make sure you know what you're getting into before you start investing a lot of money into equipment and software and so forth.

Also, it may seem totally unrelated but I would suggest taking some entry level business courses. More than half of your success is going to come from how well you can run a business. Know matter how awesome you can shoot or edit, if your business skills are horrible you're going to have a short and/or limited-success career. There are lots of people in the industry who are still struggling to get by, despite having started their businesses 5 or 6 or 10 years ago. This isn't usually due so much to poor shooting and editing (although that can totally be a factor) as it is to simply have poor business skills.

Anyways, I commend you for your enthusiasm and don't mean to discourage you at all. I just want to make sure you prepare yourself properly for success. Good luck, and keep asking questions.

Hi Amanda,

The advice to second shoot at a wedding is very good advice. Maybe you could rent or borrow a camera to see if you like it before spending lots and lots of $$$$.

Also, Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro are virtually the same program. The learning curve is exactly the same for both of them.

Good luck!
Joe

Has anyone used the Panasonic ag hmc80? I just want to stop reading and make my mind up so I can start learning.

Also, I'm not as ignorant as I came off to be. I'm ok with shooting manual. I do some photography on the fly. I'm also very familiar with the wedding process. I've performed in way to many to count. I knowmy way around editing. I know my mics and audio gear. I'm also good with running a biz. My biggest concern is not white balance but rather vid equip so I can just get started learning. I can talk guitas and pianos all day. I can even tell you why I prefer nikon to canon but I only know what I have read when it comes to vid cams. I just wanna make the right choice before I spend some cash.what is the best way to capture audio? These are thhe things I need to know before I spend the dough. I just wanna make the decision so I can start learning. Xlr to cam or seperate audo recorder? What are your favorite cams in the 2500-3000 range? New/used? Once I make up my mind I can just start filling my brain with other things.

Amanda, I haven't used that camera, but that looks like a great camera to start with. It has everything you need.

How much money do you have? If you tell us $3000 is all you have to spend we can get a better feel for what is in your ball park.

I spent $15K on gear last year, yet I still don't have everything I need. Thou I have 3 Canon 7D's.

For Tripod, DO NOT cheap out... get the most expensive one you can buy so that it will most likely be the last one you buy. I bought 3 tripods before I learned my lesson. Also, get one that holds twice as much weight as your camera.

$500-700 range: Manfrotto 504HD Head w/546B 2-Stage Aluminum 504HD,546BK B&H

$1,500 range (I would highly recommend this one) : Miller DS-20 Aluminum Tripod System 850 B&H Photo Video

Audio: You can go different ways here. My experience is that using something like the Zoom H1 is affordable, lightweight but you will get a hum noise and you can't monitor the sound. I use a Zoom H4N, two wireless receivers(one for groom and one for priest) and one Zoom H1 (for now, for the readings during a ceremony). But since you have inputs on your camera you can buy a system that has two transmitters and one receiver and stick that on your camera.

For speeches we plug into the soundboard with our H4N and have second person monitor the audio. Do not use the mic on the camera to be your main source of audio.

Lighting: Start off with a on board light like the comer 1800. This product is awesome and we use it all the time. The problem with on board lights is that it can look unprofessional lighting wise and folks don't like it in their eyes. It's great for putting on a light stand, raising it up about 10ft and moving it to wherever you need it. We also use lights that connect to a battery that's in a bag and set up 3 of those for the dance floor. The lighting is more even and not annoying.

Once you have that stuff you are pretty much good to go. You will get people who want two cams for the ceremony (a lot) so be prepared to hire someone who has a similar camera or buy a second one.

Editing: You can get away with iMovie, but you may outgrow it pretty fast. It will work for you. I used Lynda.com and learned how to use the necessary basics in final cut within a couple of weeks. You also have to learn another important program and that is Compressor and DVD Studio Pro (creates your DVD menu) if you want to have the flexibility with compression of your final movie and how the DVD menu will look. So in my opinion you should just give Final Cut Studio your money.

Try your first video on iMovie so you don't feel overwhelmed.

On a side note, it's all about how you think about "Risk"

Millionaires see risk as an opportunity. Of course it is calculated, "what's the worst and what's the best thing that can happen"

Middle Class: will take very little risk, afraid that they will fail and loss their "comfortableness"

Millionaires, love change and embrace it, no matter if they fail or not.

Middle Class love good change, but are afraid of bad change, so they'd rather not make any big moves.

Take little steps, but also make big decisions about where you see yourself and want to be in 5 and 10 years.


Video or Photography:

Video: Less competition in video than in photography. I make $3K-4K a wedding and I'm booked like crazy only after two years. More work it seems than it would be for photography. You will always be booked after the photographer and even DJ sometimes or last minute. Very rewarding in the end. Brides will brag, brag, brag about their video more than their pictures. Videos can make you cry, photos not so much.

Photography: More competition. Just look at how many photographers advertise on bridal websites compared to videographer. You are in charge of the wedding. Less work than being a videographer. Not as rewarding in the end.

Choose one and be the best you can at it.

Hi Amanda, there is a thread about the camera you have mentioned. Maybe this will help you make-up your mind.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-avccam-camcorders/476695-whos-getting-hmc80-3.html

Hi Amanda

I also second the advice of trying to work with a known videographer at weddings and learn from them. Most are more than happy to have you tag along ...I know I would be happy to do it but I'm a little to far away!! Ask the people in your area..you won't get paid but you will get a lot of experience!!

I have been shooting all my weddings on HMC72's which are the PAL versions of the HMC70 and it's an identical body and weight of the HMC80. They are really great for stable handheld shots but you don't say anything about your stature!!! If you are a 5' 1" lady and weigh 50lbs then you will struggle with a big camera....The cams clock it at around 8lbs so having one on your should gets a little heavy sometimes!!!

Mine have really been amazing!!! Never a problem and great images and audio!!! I chance cams every 18 months or so and my next set willl be HMC80's once we hit Winter here.

Once you have worked with a "pro" then get a few weddings under your belt from friends and family (yeah you will have to do them as freebies!!!) and then you will have some genuine samples to offer brides.

It's hard work but a really great industry to work in!!

Chris

Hi Amanda,

Congratulations on deciding to dive in. My biggest recommendation is what Chris said - work as an assistant for a known videographer on a couple of shoots. Get experience with someone who knows what they are doing. Alternatively, volunteer to shoot a couple of weddings for friends or relatives who otherwise aren't getting video. If they pay you, great, but even if it's free, it's good experience. Renting cameras as opposed to buying them the first few times out also is helpful if you can do it.

Good luck!!

Bill

....and forget everything you know as a bride or a bridesmaid! ;-)

I love the idea of working with someone else for a while. The problem is that there is no one in my area shooting at all. This was part of the reason that I wanted to get in. There just isn't any competition. There is one older man who is doing weddings. He just uses Walmart cameras and he is making a living at it just using Imovie and cheap equipment. I figure if I can get myself knowlegable I will do well, even if it takes a while to polish. If anyone lives within a few hours drive from Mt. Vernon, Illinois and would be willing to let me tag along, I would definitely do the drive.

St. Louis is only an hour and a half from you. I'd start there. Look up companies online and give them a call. Best of all, you won't be in their market, which should make them even more likely to let you tag along and help.

Kelly offers some excellent advice. Also note that you're going to need more than one camera. And I strongly suggest that you refrain from any steadicam work until you have the basics locked down. A good tripod with a fluid head is absolutely essential.

Also, I'm not as ignorant as I came off to be.

Seriously Amanda, there's no reason as long as you are well versed in interchangable lens cameras to not go DSLR. You run into time limitations on the Canons and not sure if the Nikons do or not. Panny has the GH series and those have no overheating issues nor time limitations.

The big thing right now in video is insanely fantastic image quality and shallow depth of field. To gain that you are either going to go through contortions, or go with an interchangeable lens camera. The other thing you can pick up with interchangeable lenses is a low light capability most convention camcorders won't ever have.

The shooting style is different from a conventional camcorder, but in your case, you aren't going to have to be "unlearning" anything, you are going to learn DSLR shooting right from the start.

If you already know your way around this piece of gear, you are way ahead of the ballgame compared to the 80. You will go in with a comfort level already established, which makes a huge difference in learning.

You say you already are comfortable shooting in manual, so with a DSLR that opens up the use of older cheaper legacy glass. If you already have some lenses, all you need are adapters and you are already part of the way home.

What you are going to lose most likely going DSLR is quality audio capture on the cam. This can also be accomplished with external recorders and using Plural Eyes to sync the audio to your video. If you go pocket size Audio Recorders and lav mics, your upfront costs for quality audio are far less, getting you in the game cheaper and maybe quicker.

The hidden benefit of DSLRs is the size and weight aspects of the gear that you are NOT going to drag around. I have Manfrotto 3246 tripods which worked great for my DVXs. Now with the Panny GHs, they are up to the point of being stupidly overkill.

That's just my opinion, of course YMMV.

I looked at the Canon XL2 also because of the interchangeable lenses. That was appealing to me. I don't know. I might try both and see what feels good. I just wish I knew which direction one way or the other. I do know I have every intention on keeping my bride brain though. Someone posted that I should give it up. I know I run the risk of a gender war, but let me tell you that you boys are tech minded doesn't mean you know how to get everything you might think you should get. I know my way around a wedding backwards and forward. I know what women want. I know what women need. And I just have to figure out how to capture and give it to them!!!! I appreciate all the help. I will think about DSLR. Although I'm considering the hmc80, would there be a befefit of spending the same amount of money on used equipment that might be better? Like the XL2...how would it compare? Like the idea of interchangeable lenses and the ability to capture stills.

Hi Amanda, I really can't recommend the Canon XL2
(and I'm the guy who ran the largest, most popular XL2
site on the internet). The problem is that it's only SD
(standard definition). You really want to be shooting
HD these days. It doesn't matter if you're delivering
only SD, you should be shooting HD. The XL2 ain't it.

Someone posted that I should give it up. I know I run the risk of a gender war...
No worries; I've looked through this thread and didn't see
anything like that. Here at DV Info Net we don't do gender
wars -- I'll escort anyone showing a gender bias right off
the site. We have stellar shooters here both male and
female so of course gender makes absolutely no
difference in this business. Hope this helps,

IMHO, what you really need is low light capability. Those Walmart cameras, DSLRs, the 80 and just about every other cam out there is going to shoot nice footage in bright daylight. It's when you take the cams indoors that you really separate the good from the "also rans".

On the Panny side, the HMC150 is the killer low light performer. That one now is being reduced from it's original list price, indicating it is nearing an end of life for Panny. Those I have sen that were used, were not much less than the cheapest new one out there. Panny gives a 3 year warranty with a new cam (I beleive) so consider that as well if you look used.

I don't know Sonys or Canons, maybe someone else can describe which works well there.

Chris,

I am so impressed with this site. It's off the charts. I am far from a stellar shooter. At this point, I simply have stars in my eyes!!! I am just in info overload. What would you suggest as far as a good cam goes? I'm not opposed to buying used but would like to be in the 2500 range{ish}.

Your love of photography/video is shared by many here, including myself...
But realize, that this is a business, and holding the record button, and the thrill of getting the great shots are a small part of something bigger...

Booking clients, knowing the locations, dealing with people, deadlines, hardware issues, and the enormous responsibility can put a lot of stress on you...
And once it does become a business, then sometimes the love of what you chased for ends up dying..

I'm not trying to deter you, but trying to suggest to shoot with an established company. See what it's like being on your feet from beginning to end...Find your strength, weaknesses, likes and dislikes...Take it from there.

My 2 cents....

It's not that I am not hearing what you are saying. But, if there is anything I know, it's weddings. Not just because I had my own. I've been around the wedding block since I was a teenager. I'm turning 35 in Feb. I know weddings in and out. I just have to figure out how the camera plays into all of it. It's already exhausting!! I know the "on your feet" drill. And, this has gone through much adult thought for several months. My husband and I have done our homework for sure. It's worth a shot. And weddings aren't the only thing I'm interested in. In fact, I have some other projects in mind that I think will be more fun in the long run. I just have to get started so I can kick the learning curve. I am not afraid of the biz aspect at all. What I am afraid of it the technical piece of it. I just don't have the knowlege or the practice. I am pretty aware of the fact that I need some really good practice and I'm cool with taking the time to do that. I have even thought about some film courses. Another thing you have to know is that I really don't need to be detered. I work with abused children all day long. At this point, cleaning sewer systems would be an awesome profession. No matter what could go wrong in a days work of film can't possibly measure up to coming home with the amount of emotional stress that I do. I just want to try and any help that I can get is one step closer to emotional peace. If videography isn't the way to go, I'll chop up my degree in the kitchen as a fry cook!!! But until then, I at least want to try. I have a supportive husband and I know we can do it. There is NO ONE in our immediate area. I wish you guys were closer. I wouldn't mind paying for some tutoring!! And, I know it's more than "pushing the record button". I just need the time to learn.

Just wish I could have someone make my mind up who has some experience. I am looking at the new Panasonic AG HMC80. Any thoughts? I'm crazy about the idea of the merlin steady set up. I want smoooooth work. Need some advice on audio. Should I use a seperate recorder or just go directly into the cam via xlr?...

Hi Amanda,

You have already been given some good advice. I will add this. Since you are considering the HMC80, I would allow just a little more money and get the HMC150. I have seen used HMC150s sell for $2200-2500 and since it is NOT a tape based camera, I would not hesitate buying used. The HMC150 is better in low light and since you mentioned wanting to do steady cam work, you can fly the HMC150 much easier and cheaper than the HMC80. I do not have any experience with the HMC80, just the HMC150 and HMC40. I am not sure, but I think the low light performance of the HMC40 and HMC80 are similar. You can read reviews I did on each camera here.
EventDV.net: The Event Videographer's Resource (http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/Editorial/EventDV-TV/Mark-Von-Lanken-In-the-Field-with-the-Panasonic-AG-HMC150-52653.htm)

EventDV.net: The Event Videographer's Resource (http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/News/Feature/In-the-Field-Panasonic-AG-HMC40-66352.htm)

For now, I would not spend time or money are a steady cam type of device. I know the shots look cool, but you need to get the basics down, capture the moments and tell the story. Content trumps eye candy every time.

Before we go on to audio, let me throw this out there. Since it sounds like you are familiar with DSLRs, you will probably end up shooting some video with one at some point in the future. Maybe a little, maybe a lot. We are currently shooting a lot of Prep and Reception with DSLRs and Ceremonies with the HMC150s. You can do great work with either or both. Don't limit yourself to one or the other until you have some experience under your belt. They each have their own advantages and disadvantages. A lot of it comes down to personal preference, and only you can decide what is right for you. Many of our recent vimeo clips have a combination of both and some are all DSLR. You can check them out here.
Mark & Trisha Von Lanken on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/vonweddingfilms)

For audio, it's a toss up. If you go wireless, you can record straight to the HMC150 or HMC80. If you end up going DSLR, you will need an auxilary recorder, but you can send the wireless feeds to the auxilary recorder. When I'm shooting with the HMC150 I send the two wireless feeds to the cam. When I'm shooting DSLR, I send the wireless feeds to the H4n. I also have four H2s with lav mics, so I can record audio with those or go the wireless route (Sennheiser G2s). Good audio also trumps steady cam shots, so spend your time and money getting the audio squared away.

I highly recommend shooting 2nd or 3rd camera with an experienced company. Since you are right between St. Louis and Evansville, you have a couple of larger metro areas to look to. Additionally, I am familiar with your part of IL. I grew up around Decatur and my parents live DuQuoin. I currently live in Tulsa, OK, but have driven through Mt. Vernon dozens of times. I also know a few companies in smaller towns in your area. I will send you a private message with their information.

Lastly...being a woman can be a big advantage. I know there are several companies that only have male shooters, but if I had to shoot and edit without my wife, I would be very limited and not nearly as good.

Thanx for that. I researched the HMC-150. I just knew that I couldn't afford to buy new. I am trying to start with a couple of cameras and just don't have the budget for super high end stuff. If I could get two cams for 5k, I'd be happy.

The audio is the part that isn't so intimidating to me. I have spent a lot of years around a mixing board. Just need to catch up with technology. I looked at the pocket recorders. Pretty impressive. I'd like to see them up close and personal. They are way smaller than the older style and pretty cool looking. Is the audio sync to video a heavy process? Are you using outboard mixing or simply running everything to computer and using software?

You are welcome Amanda. You are very smart to watch your startup costs. I don't know how much you can get for a wedding in Central IL, so it is very important to watch your costs. If you cannot get enough money to make it worth your while, at least you have a couple of larger markets, that is if you are willing to drive a couple of hours.

You can use a program called Plural Eyes to sync aux audio to the cam audio. No, I do not use outboard mixing. For a typical ceremony I have a mic on the minister, groom, podium and strings. When possible, I use the two wireless mics, one each on the minister & groom and use Zoom H2s on the podium and strings. I just sync in post.

I looked at the Canon XL2 also because of the interchangeable lenses. That was appealing to me. I don't know. I might try both and see what feels good.

Just like Chris said, this camera is not recommended at all.

I do know I have every intention on keeping my bride brain though. Someone posted that I should give it up. I know I run the risk of a gender war, but let me tell you that you boys are tech minded doesn't mean you know how to get everything you might think you should get. I know my way around a wedding backwards and forward. I know what women want. I know what women need. And I just have to figure out how to capture and give it to them!!!! I appreciate all the help.

I think that's great! Keep your bride brain, it's the right decision, just add to it the buisiness brain.

BTW since you know what the brides want you can share it with us. We will give you our knowledge on tech stuff you can give us your insights about what brides want, isn't that fair?

I will think about DSLR.

You should.

Just as Chip said sinse you are just starting now you will not have to adjust to a new way of working so it will be much easier.

A couple Panasonic GH2s and 3-4 lenses would be my choice.

Amanda, you've got a continuum of good advice here, note how many people agree you should work as second string.

However, two things scream at me from this thread.

First is the guy who you rather dismiss as making a living using Walmart camera and iMovie. From what you say he's got the market too and you're going to be going head to head with him with nothing on your plus side except you're married and you love weddings. He's got history, experience, reputation and price. Against that you've got higher costs, no experience, no reputation and possibly a higher price if you have to fund your capital investment.

Second, I'm not sure you've fully appreciated how important it is to know your craft. I know I bang on about knowing your craft but it's the element which gets you out of scrapes and unforeseen calamities. Right now you should compare yourself with the actor who wants to direct. Many of them do, many of them try but most of them fail.

I share the view that the business of the wedding business is at least if not more than knowing your business. You can have the greatest talent and technical skill in the world but unless you can market and sell it (and they're two completely different things) no-one will ever know.

Good luck - the tougher it is to succeed, the sweeter is your success.

Hi Amanda

Good advice from Philip too as he runs a very successful UK operation and has good marketing experience. If you are doing it alone then unfortunately you do need some marketing skills and even selling skills. My selling skills are no good at all but I do tell the couple I'm seeing that "I'm a videographer not a salesman" and they appreciate the honesty and also know that they haven't got a "hard sell" salesman in the house with them. You will also need a decent website and some online directories with your details (also more money to spend!!!) You can be the best videographer ever but if brides cannot find you there won't be any work!!! Marketing is an essential part of the operation. Being a woman you do have a distinct advantage talking "girl to girl" as most brides are the ones that decide who to book!!

Mark's info on the HMC150 is worth looking at..it's lighter than the 80. I was "weaned" on shoulder mount cameras so I have always owned one!! I guess there is nothing wrong with a 150 with a shoulder-mount rig???? I must admit I like the stability of the 70 and 80. I use a stedicam BUT only for the photoshoot..it's cool I know but really too space restrictive in a Church and there is seldom enough time to get into the rig when things are happening at lightning speed around you!!!

Keep asking questions !!! You will learn a lot!!

Chris

Great points Philip.

First is the guy who you rather dismiss as making a living using Walmart camera and iMovie.

I knew several production houses like this when I was starting wedding video in the 90's (except back then they were all still shooting/linear editing on SVHS). While we "professionals" scoff at their choice of equipment, the truth is that these people know their markets -- that's why they stick around so long. It's a good idea to take them seriously and learn from them.

Second, I'm not sure you've fully appreciated how important it is to know your craft.

Amen again. There are certain skills, habits, and ways of thinking that can only be cultivated through hours and hours and hours behind the camera and in the editing suite. You'll be able to predict problems, and deal with unforeseen circumstances (which are the norm at weddings) without them ruining your production.

Amanda, if no one in your area offers wedding video, then just start doing it!! Do a few for free or charge something, this will give you demos to show. All you need are 2 or 3 demos to really get started and soon your phone will be ringing off the hook. Just do it!!

If no one in my area sold hamburgers, no matter how bad of a cook i am, people would still buy my burgers and I'd only get better and better at making them...it's probably how Ray Kroc started McDonalds.

Amanda,

Perseverance is your number one success tool. If you want it, and stick with it, and don't lose faith.... you'll make it.

More than anything, the reason I'm in the film business is because I absolutely love the process of capturing those magic moments.

This forum is an incredible resource. You can study the work of, and ask questions to, many of the best wedding shooters on the planet.

Have fun and good luck!

If no one in my area sold hamburgers, no matter how bad of a cook i am, people would still buy my burgers and I'd only get better and better at making them...it's probably how Ray Kroc started McDonalds.I think this is rather like encouraging someone to leap off a cliff because they think they can fly. I think it's maybe even a little bit irresponsible and not genuinely helpful to the OP. If you make lousy hamburgers, not only will no one come back, but they'll tell their friends to avoid you, in every form of social media available -- and every bad experience with a bad videographer gets extended to all videographers and hurts everyone in that business. So I think this kind of leap before you look advice hurts everyone in the long run.

(And Ray Kroc didn't start McDonald's. He was a milkshake-machine salesman who bought the already-successful chain from the McDonald Brothers and introduced the concept of franchising it. He didn't cook but he knew the hamburger business very well.)

True Story: For the past 20 years or so, everyone I know has been urging me to open a restaurant, because I'm a pretty accomplished cook and it's always been a dream of mine. So for the past year I've spent quite a lot of time on forums much like this one, but for the restaurant biz, and I spent four months preparing a seventy-page business plan outlining every single aspect of the venture. And you know what? After doing all that due diligence, I decided it isn't for me at this point in my life because I wasn't prepared to do what it takes to run a successful restaurant business. If I'd followed the advice of all my well-meaning friends to "go for it" because they wanted to make me feel good, I'd have lost my shirt and probably my house as well, because the realities of the business mean I was going to spend no time cooking and schmoozing, and all my time on the phone making deals, doing marketing and managing payroll. In other words, what I thought it was, and what had been appealing to me, it wasn't. And if I'd gone out and leased a space and bought kitchen equipment before doing all my research, I'd have been out a fortune before I realized it wasn't going to work.

But back to the real point: Amanda, your enthusiasm is to be commended, and I don't think anyone here is trying to discourage you. But the advice from the many professionals around here is to take things in the logical order and learn a bit more about what you want to do before you dive in headfirst without a helmet. That you are focused on which cam to buy is evidence that you haven't done enough homework yet; that decision comes last, not first. And the dirty little secret is: It doesn't matter. All cams are fine if you know what you're doing, even an old and outdated SD cam like the XL2 (but the fact that you didn't seem to know it isn't HD means you still have a bit more studying to do).

As you've no doubt seen, there are as many opinions as there are posters here. The good news is that all your questions have already been asked and answered right here at DVInfo many times -- just look back in the posts for about six months and you'll find spirited discussions on just about ever topic imaginable, along with very specific opinions about very specific pieces of equipment. Everyone obsesses over which cam to buy, and the real answer is always: there is no best camera, only what's best for you. Everyone is going to advise you to buy the cam they have, use and like.

If you live in the desert and you are the only one with hamburgers, no matter how bad they taste, people will want them. Amanda has stated that no one around her offers video. She's been to enough weddings to know the format. She's adept at photography. If she can hold the camera steady, she can shoot video. It's not rocket science.

Actually, she said there is no one in her area doing it and then in the same breath mentioned that there is one 'old guy' doing it. So she's not completely in the desert. d;-)

I think Adam, myself, and many others on here have already given her great information on how to get started in this business. No one is telling her to NOT get into the business, we're just trying to help her get into it with the least pain possible. But she seems pretty set on just picking cameras and jumping right in, and that's fine. She's more than welcome to do things her way and not take the advice given to her by professionals who are already successful in doing what she wants to do.

I did the same thing when I first started .. and learned plenty of stuff the hard way. d;-)

Well, had I known this would be the feeling I would have after posting, I wouldn't have posted at all, or maybe just asked more specific questions. Let me remind everyone that my first post prefaced that I am not a videographer. I also said I have a lot of learning to do. I'm not opening a restaurant that could sink me house and home. I'm paying cash for my venture, not that I should have to go there, but this isn't something I'm going in debt for, quitting my job for, moving to the big city for or any other thing that wouldn't fly with my current financial plan for myself. Also, you have turned my posts into the irresponsible Amanda infant who is jumping off some cliff without a helmet, going into debt, running backwards all while eating crappy deset hamburgers post. It's not my way or the highway. I never even came close to presenting myself that way. All I said was that I had alove for weddings and wanted to learn how to navigate a camera through them. I live in a small town where the one video guy makes 800 bucks off of raw footage. What I meant when I said no one is around??? I meant there are no professional production companies. Not much of anything at all. I'm not lookin to go to hollywood. I'm not lookin to aquire an award. I just wanted to give the bride something to remember. All I needed from you was a few starting points because I was confident enough to say that I know weddings and smart enough to admit to ignorance right away. I sure learned one good lesson here....and I will just keep it to myself and thank those who took the time to help. P.S. Michael, I would eat your cheeseburgers.

Hi Amanda

Don't allow any negative comments to influence you at all. We all have to start somewhere and you will improve as you shoot more and more weddings. If I was in your shoes I would certainly just go for it!!

You are not trying to start a multi-national empire !! All you have is a love of weddings and a desire to shoot them AND you importantly have a market!!

Grab yourself a camera that you like and jump in!! You will learn as you go (I did and I started with just one Panasonic GS500 camera!!) As you get more bookings you can upgrade your gear.

You have something that I have that a lot of videographers don't have...a passion for weddings!! Just for interest Panny have released the MH1 camera which is a lighter shoulder mount that shoots HD ..I used to use the older MD10000 (DVC20 is the USA) and it's around $1000 ...great to start with!!!

Tell us how you get on!!

Chris

And just for the record.....my husband and I built a drive in theater screen in our backyard, designed an outbuilding for home theater, built a screen in our bedroom, none of them under 8 feet. imagine a nursery with surround sound....we have about 30 feet of screen alltogether and over 2000 dvd titles.....I couldn't have the passion to recess a wall to house a tv in my kitchen (that I did all by myself, thank you) if I didn't know the friggin difference between HD and SD!!! I just liked the idea of interchangeable lenses. Sheesh!

Sorry for all the frustrating responses, Amanda. Take a little breather and come on back--it'll get easier. :)

If you truly are fed up with us as a collective for the time-being shoot me an email and we'll chat. I've been here for quite a few years and find most of the folks to be both knowledgeable and kind...it looks like you just got off to a rough start.

Hey Amanda,

It sounds like you've already made up you mind and what you really need is a little push start. So here's a different perspective and a way to go about starting. As the famous footwear tag goes "Just Do It". If you don't have anyone locally to help you along, I'd suggest just getting a not too expensive used camera and a good tripod and start shooting. Shoot for free, shoot for friends, shoot for whatever people are willing to pay you. What you need to do is develop camera technique which is not so much dependent on the specific camera you're using, but more about how you use it. You need to develop your style of shooting. What types of shots you find aesthetically pleasing and how to move the camera so that you don't make people want to run for the sink (or toilet).

Pay attention to how you frame each shot. Have a reason for every shot beyond capturing a picture for a memory. As you said, you love weddings. Ask yourself why. What is it that makes you love them. Is it the moments when the bride and groom are together, is it about the family and friends who gathered, or is it because it's a great big party. Figure out how to capture and convey that message through your video.

Yes, some cameras will be better at certain tasks than others. But at this point you don't know what you want from a camera. Everyone has a different style of shooting and has different demands on their equipment. By starting to shoot you'll discover the shortcomings of the equipment you are using and you'll discover what things you like. After that you can start to narrow down what camera you ultimately would want to invest in. For now, look for something that is a good deal so that when you're ready to sell it you will not take too big a hit and whatever it does cost you will, be more than worth it in the knowledge that you will have gained.

This site is full of a lot of great, very knowledgeable people who are willing to help, and that's what they are trying to do. Read some of the other posts about different cameras and equipment and that might give you an idea of what some of the differences are in each camera. There's a thread for just about every camera you'd probably be considering. There even a thread about what camera to buy:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-discussion/29995-gigantic-camera-should-i-buy-thread.html

Jump towards the end as that thread started in 2001 and most of those cameras are not even in existence anymore.

After reading your posts and how this this thread is going, that would be my advice for you. And as with advice, you can take it or leave. Good luck in your journey.

-Garrett

Amanda, while your passion about weddings was obvious from your first post, your skills, knowledge, awareness of the subject was not.
That explains the negaiveness of some of the responses.

Now, going back to my other reply to you, are you going to give us some tips about what the brides want? I would really love to hear a woman's (who had being a bride recently) point of view.

Have you seen the work of some of the best wedding cinematographers around? Would you take a different approach? If so why?

Your answers might help some of us produce better wedding videos and (to your benefit) will definately help us recommend you the best tools for the job.

Cheers

And just for the record.....my husband and I built a drive in theater screen in our backyard, designed an outbuilding for home theater, built a screen in our bedroom, none of them under 8 feet. imagine a nursery with surround sound....we have about 30 feet of screen alltogether and over 2000 dvd titles.....I couldn't have the passion to recess a wall to house a tv in my kitchen (that I did all by myself, thank you) if I didn't know the friggin difference between HD and SD!!! I just liked the idea of interchangeable lenses. Sheesh!


Amanda -

I'll be a bit of the heretic here and once again say it's not the camera it's the "nut" behind it that counts! If you've truly been gifted with "the eye", all the rest you can learn... and if you have "the eye" you could shoot with a cheap camera and probably get good results... I have to "work" to get good shots, my wife just instinctively "nails" them....guess who has "the eye"? Just wish I could get her to shoot video, but she likes the "stills" side, no matter how nice the video capabilities are in the cameras I get along the way!

All of us have to learn the "tech side" to some extent, but the basics are fairly easy to learn, and you've got to have some "hands on" time with whatever camera you use to get the most out of it. The camera is a tool, and as you use it it becomes an extension of yourself, you learn what it can and can't do, and if you need "more" you know what to look for when it's time to "upgrade". To be quite blunt, the high end "consumer" cameras from the "big three" (Sony Canon Panasonic) have become very highly developed to where the auto functions often can adapt far faster than I can on a "manual" camera... you can take some pretty decent footage with 'em, and if you just know when and how to override the "auto", you are probably OK for most shoots! If you go towards the HDSLR side of things, again there's some pretty decent and relatively inexpensive choices out there, but you'll need to be more on top of the actual "running" of the camera. Depending on your market, you may not really "need" a "big", "professional" camera - it could be overkill and kill the budget unnecessarily!


You want to spend your equipment budget wisely, so if you're able to take some time, you can get professional evaluations of just about any camera in existence from perusing other setions of DVi, plus you'll run across links to other resources.

In the end, there are so many different styles of shooting and personal preferences, you can drive yourself nuts, and at some point I'd just say pick a camera, preferably find a used one in good shape, get it in hand and start shooting every chance you get - even just getting a small point and shoot camera that shoots video and taking it EVERYWHERE will start to fine tune your "shooting sense" - the more you shoot and edit, the more you'll figure out what it is you want. THEN you can more easily figure out what other "tools" you'll need to build your vision. The more you shoot with whatever you can get your hands on, the more the rest will "come into focus"!

Clearly you've got a love for video/cinema - that will help you, as you watch specific shots/movies start to think about what it is that makes those images "work" - things like color correction or post effects, how the camera moves or does not move, how the director frames and focuses the shots, etc. If you haven't already (and I'll bet you HAVE) watch any "making of" type extras on the discs you've got - you'll probably start to see all sorts of levels of gear (including some pretty cheap consumer grade cameras) floating around the sets! You use the tool that does the job...


As you run your budget, don't forget to include sufficient funding for extra/backup gear, including a second (or even third or fourth, depending on shooting style) camera, sufficient batteries and memory (all that little piddly stuff can add up fast!). Those are the things that will save you when "stuff happens".

Also be sure to budget for "grip" gear - meaning tripods, monopods, clamp pods, perhaps a shoulder mount, and maybe sometime along the way a steadicam or a slider. Again, much will depend on your shooting style, but keep in mind these are all TOOLS. With some practice/experience, you might decide that the allure of a steadicam or a particular expensive new "toy" really isn't all it's cracked up to be. I can "fake" quite a few motion shots with my shoulder rig or a monopod... with little or no "setup" time.

Frankly I'm a proponent of relatively cheap cameras, and several of them, strategically placed to get angles you need to cut to, relatively cheap but sturdy tripods and assorted other "fixed" camera mounts, and ONE camera/rig that you can move to get whatever shot you need. For audio I have a mix of wireless and small digital recorders/lav mics I can again strategically place as needed. With multicam, I can have several audio sources when I go to mix down. This hodgepodge of gear fits my shooting style, it might drive someone else completely crazy...

Ultimately you will need to develop your own shooting/editing/production/business "style", as have those here who have offered their viewpoints, don't take offense at any of it, we've all got "opinions" and you know the old saying about that!


As I look at your first post, I think what you really were after was a basic "kit" list, let me try that and see if it helps....

1. A minimum of two (preferably identical for redundancy) cameras - get the best low light and image stabilization performance you can find, make sure you're comfortable with how the camera "feels" to YOU, and that it has at least some access to controls to adjust image quality. Lots of good choices out there, if you stick to cameras released within the last 2-3 years, it'd be pretty hard to go too far "wrong"... Get batteries and memory sufficient to cover 2-3x the entire day.

2. At least one stable, TALL tripod that can be locked down, or if you will be using it to shoot from, has a good smooth pan/tilt action. I'd suggest you consider the Bogen 561 monopod (or at least the 560) with the fluid cartridge - very handy device and adds mobility/stability on the run, most people who have one swear by it, I finally got one of each, and they are a good investment. Alternatively a DV Multirig shoulder mount is worth considering, again they come highly recommended - there are less expensive alternatives too. You want to take the load off your back/feet/legs - lugging even a small camera around all day will beat you up pretty good otherwise! Hard to keep a camera steady when fatigue sets in you you're wobbly!

3. At least 2 digital audio recorders with lav mics - need to be small to fit on the groom or officiant. IRivers have been popular, Travis uses some Olympus models, there are various ones out there. Zoom H2 and H4/H4n are popular, but aren't particularly "pocketable", but handy for "ambient".

4. Some form of on camera light, with diffusion, because sometimes it's just too dark to shoot at receptions!

Well, had I known this would be the feeling I would have after posting, I wouldn't have posted at all, or maybe just asked more specific questions. Let me remind everyone that my first post prefaced that I am not a videographer. I also said I have a lot of learning to do. I'm not opening a restaurant that could sink me house and home. I'm paying cash for my venture, not that I should have to go there, but this isn't something I'm going in debt for, quitting my job for, moving to the big city for or any other thing that wouldn't fly with my current financial plan for myself. Also, you have turned my posts into the irresponsible Amanda infant who is jumping off some cliff without a helmet, going into debt, running backwards all while eating crappy deset hamburgers post. It's not my way or the highway. I never even came close to presenting myself that way. All I said was that I had alove for weddings and wanted to learn how to navigate a camera through them. I live in a small town where the one video guy makes 800 bucks off of raw footage. What I meant when I said no one is around??? I meant there are no professional production companies. Not much of anything at all. I'm not lookin to go to hollywood. I'm not lookin to aquire an award. I just wanted to give the bride something to remember. All I needed from you was a few starting points because I was confident enough to say that I know weddings and smart enough to admit to ignorance right away. I sure learned one good lesson here....and I will just keep it to myself and thank those who took the time to help. P.S. Michael, I would eat your cheeseburgers.

Why are you so defensive towards people that are trying to help you? You're on a awesome forum with people that have been in this business for 5, 10 and 20 years or more, and when they willingly and freely give you advice to help you with getting started you get your feelings hurt and lash out at them? That makes no sense.

Once again, NO ONE is telling you not to get into the business. The point you keep missing is that all of us here HAVE gotten into the business and we've all learned many things the hard way along the way. So when we see someone show up on the forum who wants to get into the business and has 'stars in her eyes' and 'just knows she'll do a great job because she was a bride once' and has admitted she is not a videographer and yet seems to think that the first logical step is deciding on what camera to buy ... well, most of us here know that this is not the best move. So we're simply giving you suggestions to help you get started in a way that is more logical and beneficial. If you're not a videographer then hands down the best way to get started in this business is to assistant someone else. You can be frustrated with that advice all you want but that doesn't make it bad advice.

Also, I don't think anyone here has been negative towards you. On the other hand, your approach of asking for advice and then showing frustration towards anyone who gives you advice you don't want to hear IS negative. I've been on this forum for a long time now and I make it a point to try and help everyone I can. You certainly don't have to take my advice (I mentioned that in my last post), but there's no need to get frustrated with me for giving it. That's not fair to me and it's disrespectful.

I wish you the best in your new venture and hope you can eventually see that we were all just trying to help you here. Good luck.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but on what often is a very stressful chaotic day (often with lots of stressed PEOPLE, some possibly drunk and behaving badly...), the camera is the LEAST of the things you'll have to deal with...

This isn't a business to dive into with "stars in your eyes", although a positive attitude will definitely help on the first "bridezilla" or just general "day that doesn't go as (un)planned", and you'll have to deal with "one of those days" eventually, sooner or later.

To become offended on one of the most professional forums available over a bit of "advice" seems a little hasty (maybe some of it came off as "negative"... actually more sarcastic, and with an added "wink" so it was meant in good intent... but that's the nature of open forum communication). To take offense here, I can't imagine what will happen on the first "MOB attack" at a wedding. Diplomacy skills and a calm cool demeanor when the world is falling apart rank REAL high on the "needed" tools/skills list if you shoot weddings...

I think every shooter here has learned from the school of "hard knocks", been offended, had disasters (some even posted here for sharing the misery!), dealt with difficult or awkward situations, and so on. Our choice of tools is pretty low down on the list of "worries", if I had to guess.

Obviously if you can frame, compose and properly expose a shot while shooting with a handheld rig of some sort while your locked down cam rolls, you're likely ahead of the guy with one cam and a tripod charging $800... But do you know if your market would even consider paying more than what is being charged (find out as cheaply as possible, just in case it doesn't), and until you've shot and edited one, you really have NO idea what's involved (unless of course you dig into the forums here, which will give you at least a good run of "tales from the front line"). Everyone else's "experience", while helpful, won't substitute for actual "live fire" experience and what you're shooting with won't matter...

Again, my advice is to pick up a used camera or two (even a couple cheap handycams of current manufacture will get passable results, the technology moves really fast, but it's how I started, and it worked out OK - todays' cameras are light years ahead of what I started on) and shoot a couple weddings for cheap or free. If after your first run or two you decide it's actually FUN (it takes a certain personality to actually DO wedding video), you can upgrade and collect all the other gear along the way as needed.


It's not the gear, it's the "nut" that runs it that matters... stop stressing over equipment, there's lots of options, as many as there are shooters here (I guarantee there are almost as many "kit" variations as there are posters!!). EVERY piece of equipment has it's plusses and minuses, limitations and places where it excells. If you asked "have you shot with Panasonic, Canon, or Sony", I'd venture to say most here would answer "yes, yes, and yes". If you ask "which camera should I buy" (the ginormous thread linked earlier), you'll get LOTS of people piping in with what they use and are happy with... Will it be the "right" camera or set of gear for you? Maybe yes, maybe not so much... and when next year brings new toys to market, the answer might be different.


If I tell you to go buy my rig, it might or might not suit you, Travis's setup might not "work" for me . "Down and dirty" Don Bloom has lots of experience, and he shoots a different setup quite successfully... Mark's advice is top notch, and he's regarded as a "guru" in the WV field, and I think he changes cameras almost as often as I do! OTOH, having read what these guys shoot, and having spent more than a day or two on DVi, I could probably walk in and pull off a wedding shoot with their kit, or they with mine, albeit with a bit more stress!

I think everyone is trying to help you here (even the sarcastic ones <wink>), and you won't find a better resource anywhere. Your initial post asked for: "Just wish I could have someone make my mind up who has some experience". You won't find ANY more experience anywhere else, and while we can make suggestions, take them for what they are worth, and give them time to digest, so when you decide, you'll feel you got the right kit for YOU. And if you later decide it wasn't, then you can trade up down or sideways - we ALL do it... I'd say "boys and our toys", but I'm guessing you like your toys TOO from your posts, so it's all good...


If you think you've narrowed down your field of possible candidates/kit purchases, you can post for "opinions", but frankly it was a bit odd to see a relatively aged SD camera (XL) on the same list with a current HD one... It struck me right away too, but it's probably just you're overwhelmed by all the "stuff" out there - that's where DVi comes in, you'll get the straight out, raw, honest opinions. Sometimes we "disagree", but that's OK too. Take some time to wander around DVi, it'll all fall into place.

Travis, I came here for a reason. I needed help from the big boys. I knew I was stepping into your world and said in my post that people likke you hate people like me. I knew to expect some freshman senior crap. But, admittinly, I did get frustrated. I took paper pencil notes from everyone's posts and was really appreciating the feedback. I ended up somehow getting portrayed as having my mind up to do things my own way and dismissing advice. I responded to the posts about observing for a while by stating that I would love to do that and even went as far to say I would drive far and pay if someone was close. Then I got portrayed as the cute little bride who wants to pick up a camera and be in the big league. Yes, I was a bride once, but what I tried conveying was that I know weddings in and out. Not because I was a bride, but because I had been performing in them since the age of twelve! So I am backwards to the people here. All of you who might have started with a cam and knew nothing about wedding ettiquette had to learn it. Well, I have the wedding ettiquette and need the video knowlege. But somehow I lost the little credibility I did have. Also, I'm not a teenager or a just out of college kid. We have done extensive work to getting business ready. I said we have been getting ready for months. But still I was portrayed as irresposible and jumping in. Just not accurate at all. I am not claiming to being close to ready. I just wanted some equipment advice. And I am thankful for the good stuff. Daves last post was what I was looking for as well as several others. I have a lot of stuff to consider and I'm going to. I'm sorry if you felt disrespected, but I'm not sorry for feeling misrepresented.

Glad I was of at least some help Amanda - we all started somewhere, and while we do chide each other a bit, there's no particular pecking order or anything like that. There's a lot to learn here, all different sorts of weddings (I still would like to just once do an Indian one, although I'll probably regret it, i just love the color and traditions), various styles and techniques, and we all make some mistakes and get confused and come here for help when needed.

Chris runs a tight ship, no hating allowed, and if we get too "spirited" on certain topics of contention, the "conversation" is put on notice and then locked down if it gets out of hand. It's not like most of the rest of the Internet where flaming is a sport. Sometimes we get a little sarcastic or silly, but it's pretty much family safe and once you catch the vibe, hopefully you'll be just one of "the crew", and you'll find what answers you need.

Many topics have already been "covered" ad nauseam, so you might want to play with the search function a bit, but don't be afraid to ask questions. While some of us might nibble at times, no one here bites, except when discussing copyright (that's a slugfest, so don't ask about THAT topic <wink>!), and then we all have a virtual drink of choice and toast our differences after Chris comes along and slaps us if needed.

I think what you mistook for negativity was a simple realism - Wedding Video shooting isn't for everybody, it's sometimes a tough gig, and it's usually not because of camera inadequacies or failures. "One shot" events are exactly that - if you've been behind the mixing board, you know what that means - you've got exactly ONE shot at the event as it unfolds, you've got to be thinking three steps ahead of everything (guitar solo!!). And however carefully everything was planned out, it usually goes completely off track at least somewhere during the day...

Whatever equipment you decide is right for your shooting style, you learn it inside and out and it's not even on the radar when you're "on the job", you just show up, set your gear, take your cues and camera moves, capture everything as best as possible, pack it up and take it home and check the "dailies". Keep the good footage, chuck the bad and hope there's more good than bad, but not so much it won't fit on the DVD...

There's a reason my kit has shrunk and doesn't have too much fancy stuff - and also a reason I went HD and tapeless early on... I don't want too much to drag along or keep track of, and I want to dump the footage and be in edit ASAP, so I go by the "travel as light as practically possible" philosophy. I also want to fiddle with as little as possible, I'll gladly let my camera run auto when I know it's got the shot right, intervening only as needed. But then again I shoot multicam with 4 small cams rolling... and I'm 100% certain that I'm adding a couple HDSLR's into the mix ASAP (I WILL get my wife to shoot video, dang it!). I've been planning that addition for a couple years, and think I'm finally ready to take the jump... it can be difficult making equipment choices!

Amanda, you wrote recently "I knew I was stepping into your world and said in my post that people likke (sic) you hate people like me."

I'm not going to describe that as paranoia because you'll probably react negatively but honestly, it categorically is not true.

If by "big boys" (a term you don't define) you mean people with a lot of experience, I think it would not be too sweeping a statement to say that in this well-ordered and polite forum you'll find that the more experience people have, the more ready they are to share it with people aspiring to come into the business. There may be exceptions but I think it's generally true throughout the forum, not just in Weddings and Events.

But that's not all. It's equally important to consider the advice and tales of people with less experience because often their problems will be ones you'll share.

Finally, I think you're probably asking questions that are impossible to answer. I've just changed from Z1s to EX1Rs. I can tell you why I made the change but it certainly doesn't mean that you should or shouldn't buy either model. Equally, I have no cogent reasons why you shouldn't buy a specific Panasonic model that suits Chris very well. I'll endorse what Dave patiently said, buy what suits you, your purse, your physique, your eye for design, even what suits the length (ie the reach) of your fingers, the best.

Good luck.

Gonna take a different tack, as it seems this thread took a serious swerve into the scenery for reasons I still can't work out.

So, how about some serious, no BS, advice from someone who started from scratch, no help, no nothing, but an in depth experience of stills?

Oh, and BTW, yep I'm a male, chauvanist (don't think the missus would throw that one in), big mouthed (oh, yeah!), pig (oh, she would most definately throw that one in!). So be warned, this could be toxic.

Get a camera, make your own mind up, but get one.

Every opinion here is just that, an opinion, so make your own mind up and go for it.

THEN, go shoot.

You need to make at least five (yep, 5) 3 minute features on video, with audio, correct lighting, story, the whole works.

They MUST have a story, beginning, middle and end.

Sit down with your husband and analyse every single second of each video.

Where did you screw up? Where did you get it right?

They must make sense, be watchable on a reasonable wide screen telly and be audible.

You got 15 minutes of screen time under your belt?

Now, make a 15 minute one.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to make a 15 minute video?

The first time it's like pulling teeth, believe me, but you MUST do it.

A wedding video will run for what, 60 minutes?

See my point?

Find out what you don't know, don't have, woulld like to have because you can see it will make you money, what you don't need 'cos it won't, but just plain shoot and watch.

It's amazing what you will teach yourself.

Ask the right questions here and you will get Gold, ask the wrong ones and you will get total BS.

(I hasten to add that I do not for one minute think anyone here has gone into BS mode, and if you believe that......)

Regards,


CS

PS:

Bugger, I forgot this in the CV intro - arrogant bastard, yeah that rings a bell.

Pretty well makes me your average male anywhere on the planet then?

Nope, I'm nothing like the "average" male, as there isn't any such creature, just like there isn't any such thing as the "average" female.

Lady, you ain't average! Go for it!

OK I TRUCE!!!! I really did come here with excitement about talking with the big boys, yes the pros, and trying to get some perspective outside of my months of reading, youtubing, web-surfing and all the rest of the ings that I did. I was serious when I said I took notes with paper and pencil. Maybe my questions need to be a little more specific and appropriately placed in the right areas of this forum. I appreciate all of the good advice. I could cry when I watch clips likes Travis'. Thinking how long it will take to get to that level, if ever, is mind boggling. But I'm gonna try like hell. I'm ok with being the freshman. And I'm ok that I have a lot to learn. And I'm ok with being a girl and getting my feathers ruffled. I'm good. So, just give me my little pms moment. I have bigger fish to fry. I've been asked to video a piano recital in April. There are no real expectations other than just getting it. So, maybe we can start over and let me see if you might have some recital advice. This is just a little project for a little recital at a little church. Might be a nice little first project. Thanx again for all your help.

though I wasn't actually part of the war, think Switzerland, and you'll be cool.

It's not like this isn't hard enough without that running rampant round a shoot.

Recital.

Off camera mikes, two.

Cabled or wireless, first preferable, second if you must, but better than "on cam" by a country mile.

Lights, possibly just three, if you can scrape them up.

Check out the venue well before WITH camera. Check light levels, espacially at the same time/ light level expected at the time of the event.

Check acoustics, sound systems, feeds, availability of shooting spaces.

In short, leave nostone unturned before you front up for the gig.

Oh, Amanda, one very small thing:

No one here is, would or will belittle you because you're female, black, green, male, Martian, gay, unemployed, Rupert Murdoch (choke), un gay, a Ninja turtle or anything else.

If you feel so belittled by any post, click on the triangular button to the left of every post box and complain.

Tho' if your Rupert...........


CS