I have my first SDE coming up and have a question about workflow.

Specifically this same day edit will be with (3) 7D cams video, edited in Final Cut w/MacBook Pro.

I have tested this workflow and it seems to work, but perhaps there's someone out there with some experience willing to offer advice or suggest something that I've overlooked? There is just no room for error and I want to avoid an unforeseen problem.

1. Connect 3 usb card readers with the CF card for each cam
2. Import each CF into the project without ever coping to my hard drive
3. Edit in h264 (FC chooses this when you opt to match sequence settings to clip, no rendering)
4. Output to HD projector, mini-display port to HDMI (I'm comfortable with this part)

Since time is so critical, and a full CF card takes about 20 mins to dump, multiply that time by 3 cards (worst case senario) I plan to use this workflow to eliminate approx 45 min or so of download time.

Anyone use this workflow for their SDE? Anything I may have overlooked?

Comments welcome, thanks for the help.

Craig,

If I understood what you're saying, are you editing off a CF card in h264? Unless I'm outdated, it seems like you might struggle with editing as I'm guessing you will experience a lot of trouble (buffering, loading, etc). I never tried it but that's just my guess.

Have you tried using a firewire card reader? That might save you heaps time dumping each cards files into your HDD.

I usually dump my file and convert progressively during ceremony, that way I can have my file converted and ready to edit in the afternoon.

Johannes is right, trying to edit from the card without any transcoding will mean that you will be faced with a lot of lagging and frustration during editing. I don't see how you can achieve a successful edit with this workflow.

What you need to do is to dump cards and transcode WHILE you are shooting so you don't really lose any time. If you're worried about transcoding too much ceremony part that you don't need, just transcode the bits that you need e.g. bridal walk, vow, wedding kiss.

All the best

Santo

Hi Craig,

If this is something you would like to do more of you may want to invest in a few more cards and dump them into the computer as you're shooting. I transfer only the mov's to labelled folders and batch-transcode them during the entire the day with MPEG Streamclip. When I start the edit I can start cutting the prores lt files right away. Many times Streamclip is still working on the last few dumps as I'm working on the prep. I can see how you may have to work with h264 if time is really tight, but I'd still suggest cutting what you think you may use in the edit in fcp and creating prores files for the actual edit.

Fingers crossed that the expected update to final cut studio includes efficient native h264 editing...



I have my first SDE coming up and have a question about workflow.

Specifically this same day edit will be with (3) 7D cams video, edited in Final Cut w/MacBook Pro.

I have tested this workflow and it seems to work, but perhaps there's someone out there with some experience willing to offer advice or suggest something that I've overlooked? There is just no room for error and I want to avoid an unforeseen problem.

1. Connect 3 usb card readers with the CF card for each cam
2. Import each CF into the project without ever coping to my hard drive
3. Edit in h264 (FC chooses this when you opt to match sequence settings to clip, no rendering)
4. Output to HD projector, mini-display port to HDMI (I'm comfortable with this part)

Since time is so critical, and a full CF card takes about 20 mins to dump, multiply that time by 3 cards (worst case senario) I plan to use this workflow to eliminate approx 45 min or so of download time.

Anyone use this workflow for their SDE? Anything I may have overlooked?

Comments welcome, thanks for the help.

Thx everyone.

I have (8) 32gif CF cards. I just got an express card to CF card reader. I tested it. Using the express card slot on my Macbook Pro, I was able to download a full 32gig CF card in just over 10mins. That's about 1/2 the time. So I now think I can dump everything to the drive fast enough.

BUT.... The transcoding is just too damn slow. Too damn slow!! There's no way. I just can't see planning to have all that time at my disposal to transcode the ceremony video from 3 cams. Yeah I could have the preceremony video done in time but I would be there waiting and waiting on the ceremony video so stressed out I'd want to jump out a window. :) You guys that are selective about what to transcode for each cam, then transcode, then edit, I almost can't believe it. Seems too time consuming and I would inevitably compromise on my initial selections to save time, then regret it.

For an SDE, I wouldn't attempt to do too much in the way of effects, filters, color grading, no full on post-production stuff. Lots and lots of straight cuts. The 7D files play in realtime on the timeline in h264. There's no problem seeing the video and choosing in/out points. I can insert clips, then after I feel I have achieved the right timing for all the clips in the timeline, add a filmy filter, a few tweaks, transition or two, and render it. Can that "fail"?

i have the latest mbp 17inch and it cannot play my 7d/5d footage without lagging once in a while. You must have a special mbp :)

Basically the aim of transcoding the footage is to prevent lagging/crashing while editing the footage... so if you're saying that this doesn't happen with you, then i guess there's no point transcoding it first. I'd be interested to hear about your laptop spec.

Macbook Pro 17", Core 2 Duo, 4gig Ram, OS 10.5.8
Final Cut 6.0.6

If I input 7D video into h264 timeline... No lag, no crashes, playback is absolutely flawless, and timeline render manager shows no indication that video needs render (as I would expect if FC has correctly "matched" sequence settings to clip). Only after I apply a filter does it require rendering. When I do my SDE, I'll apply any filters as the last step.

On the other hand, if I input 7D video into non-h264 timeline... Yes, frequent lag

[Susanto] Are you saying that when you put your 7D video in timeline and you're prompted with "match sequence settings to clip" and you click yes, that the video in the timeline doesn't playback perfectly like it does on mine?

Craig, you made me curious.

Last time I tried to drag my native 7D files to FCP, it's almost impossible to edit with unless you're on a 8G ram machine, which is not the case with you either. In fact, my MBP is actually more advanced than yours.

Although, I must admit I have never tried dragging the native h264 into the sequence timeline and let it match the clip settings. Would love to give it a go tonight and see if it works.

[Susanto] Are you saying that when you put your 7D video in timeline and you're prompted with "match sequence settings to clip" and you click yes, that the video in the timeline doesn't playback perfectly like it does on mine?

yes indeed. I have no idea why your machine is cooler than mine. apparently it seems to be cooler than a lot of other machines :P you should take good care of it.

This is interesting, when I use h264 in timeline on my 8-core MacPro, 7D video playback lags very badly. This must be what everyone's experiencing. I don't understand why my Macbook Pro can handle it? hmmm

This is interesting, when I use h264 in timeline on my 8-core MacPro, 7D video playback lags very badly. This must be what everyone's experiencing. I don't understand why my Macbook Pro can handle it? hmmmIs your Mac Pro running Leopard & the old version of FCP? I too am amazed that you can edit native 7D files in FCP smoothly. There is of course a difference between being able to play back smoothly & actually editing.

No I can't edit them smoothly. I can only play them in the timeline smoothly.

If I add any filters, I get a red bar across the top of the timeline indicating render is required.

Tested some other 7D movie files, they all playback on the timeline (without any effects/filters) perfectly. Those same files stutter/lag/pause on my 8-core MacPro (with 16gig of ram).

I haven't tested it yet, but I believe CS5's Premiere can handle the 7d's footage natively... This would/is a Godsend to me, because I'm going to be doing some SDEs this season...

I apologize if some of this ground has already been covered. I just had time to browse some of the responses.

Firstly, I see that some people are saying that they can edit h.264 footage fine on a Macbook Pro, and not so much on a Mac Pro. Same deal here. I find h.264 can be cut natively on a Macbook Pro as long as it's simple cuts and you're not stacking a bunch of effects on the clips. My old workflow was to do a series of short rough cut sequences, then export them to a ProRes file for inclusion on the main timeline. But the operative word is "old."

Secondly, for a SDE I would very much recommend dropping the USB card readers and picking up a Firewire card reader. They are more pricy, but when times an issue you need that speed. Especially if you're editing right off of the card.

I would also recommend that you use the log and transfer tool. It is a very powerful tool that will save you a lot of time.

I connect the card, open up Log & Transfer, and pick the clips I want to import. Then I mark in and outs on every clip and only transcode the footage that I know I'm going to use. In most cases I'm just taking 3 or 4 seconds from each clip. It's entirely possible that for a 3 minute SDE I'm only transcoding 5 or 6 minutes of footage all day.

Not only does it save the time of transcoding everything, but it means I have to consider the edit as I transcode, which greatly speeds up the actual editing time. As I'm browsing the clips, I'm thinking about how they're going to be worked into the sequence.

For example, we go into every SDE with an outline. Our outline may call for 15 seconds of makeup clips, which would be maybe 7 or 8 clips. As I'm going through the bride prep card I'm literally simply transcoding 3 or 4 seconds from 7 or 8 clips. Since I know what I'm looking for, when everything is transcoded it's just a matter of dragging everything to the timeline and re-ordering.

Hi Craig,
I do couple times of SDE, and in my workflow it need minimum 3 people (1 videographer, 1 editor, and 1 runner) I use alot of CF cards (8pcs 16Gb for each cam) I separate the ceremony into many CFs (i.e when I done with bride walk, till a moment before vow, I switched with a new CF, and my runner will give it to my editor, and I can continue shooting without have to worry about transcoding and tight timing.. because it all run parallel) yeah it quite push the runner to do 'little sport' for back and forth between me and my editor..:D and when the ceremony finish, my editor ready to edit the last CF from ceremony part, and two hours later the video is ready to watch during cocktail or dinner..:)
ow, yeah when doing SDE, I cannot use my MBP, because it often made my editor (and me) looks like hell with the lag, transcoding, and rendering time, and it affect the final result.. so I always bring my iMac..:D yeah i know maybe it sounds silly, but it works, I can cut lots of time..:)

Secondly, for a SDE I would very much recommend dropping the USB card readers and picking up a Firewire card reader.

Yeah, I abandon the USB reader concept. But for your edification, the express card to CF reader is faster than firewire.

As I'm going through the bride prep card I'm literally simply transcoding 3 or 4 seconds from 7 or 8 clips. Since I know what I'm looking for, when everything is transcoded it's just a matter of dragging everything to the timeline and re-ordering.

Question: for final output to projector, do you play the pro-res file? Because the data rate is so high with pro res I would be worried about playback. The larger the bitrate, the harder it is for the hard drive to keep up.

I've tested my own method for playback. Mini-display port to HDMI converter cable, use projector as 2nd monitor, and view full screen. I don't think I can get away with playing a monster pro-res file, though I haven't tested yet.

I know the title specifically mentioned an FCP workflow. But given your parameters, the 7Ds and H.264 are given, maybe try Premiere CS5 for a spin?

I'm quite successful with editing the MOV files from dslr using CS5 on 2.66 i7 MBP. I can even put in Mojo, which adds approximately 15 minutes to render.

I export to the Vimeo HD preset and play via the DVI out.

I just recently upgraded to an SSD drive and the cost is truly worth it with the speed gained and stress lessened.

Question: for final output to projector, do you play the pro-res file? Because the data rate is so high with pro res I would be worried about playback. The larger the bitrate, the harder it is for the hard drive to keep up.

Nope, I too would be worried about playing back a ProRes file. I export using Compressor and the Apple TV codec

I know the title specifically mentioned an FCP workflow. But given your parameters, the 7Ds and H.264 are given, maybe try Premiere CS5 for a spin?


It's logical. I bought CS4 last year (to author Bluray) and set out with the intent to switch to Premier then. I was quickly frustrated with Premier's Multi-clip editing (very laggy performance and lots of commands). Yuk. I gained perspective that day, for all the short-comings of Final Cut, the Multicam editing isn't one of them. Since I do so much multiclip stuff, just couldn't let go of Final Cut.

I'm quite successful with editing the MOV files from dslr using CS5 on 2.66 i7 MBP. I can even put in Mojo, which adds approximately 15 minutes to render.


I have two feelings at the same time, I'm jealous, and I'm angry at Apple for not supporting their pros.

I just recently upgraded to an SSD drive and the cost is truly worth it with the speed gained and stress lessened.

Awesome idea. I will upgrade mine to gain some speed.

Nope, I too would be worried about playing back a ProRes file. I export using Compressor and the Apple TV codec

With 1920x1080 output from my projector, I want the presentation to scream HD (as well as it can with a projector). The Apple TV codec is 720p and some fairly aggressive compression to accommodate LAN streaming.

I would also recommend that you use the log and transfer tool. It is a very powerful tool that will save you a lot of time.

I connect the card, open up Log & Transfer, and pick the clips I want to import.

Thanks Matthew, but what am I missing? I just tested this and I can't get Log and Transfer to mount a CF card or folder in the CF card.

I get this error message "Warning [my CF card] contains unsupported media or has an invalid directory structure. Please choose a folder whose directory structure matches the supported media."

UPDATE: ok i see I need a plugin

UPDATE 2: The plugin works well. It transcodes much faster than I thought. I think this workflow is gonna work! I think I just need to explore some export options. My thought was to write the finished file to an SxS card plugged into an Express Card slot which would be faster read than any external drive.

Just to chime in: my 2008 MBP Intel Duo 2.4 with 4 gigs has a very hard time with 7D footage (I usually render to offline RT, then re-reference the files on final render) but my new 27" iMac quad i7 has no problem with only 4 gigs.

The MBP lags just playing the files in QT or QuickView.

I have the newest MacBook Pro i7.

The fastest connection on this is the Firewire 800. I would think this is the best way to connect my CF cards?

How about playing on a projector. Which connection will I use? The mini display port?

Will audio go through this connection too?

With 1920x1080 output from my projector, I want the presentation to scream HD

Just out of curiosity, which projector are you using? Most can't output 1920x1080. As a sidenote, I once did a side by side test, HD vs SD. Standing 3 feet away from the screen, there was a huge difference between HD and SD, you could see the pixels. 50 feet away from the screen, where most of the audience sits, there was no difference to the eye!

I have the newest MacBook Pro i7.

How about playing on a projector. Which connection will I use? The mini display port?

Will audio go through this connection too?

Get the Mini Display Port to HDMI adapter. The newest MBP i7s have audio running through their ?minidisplay/HDMI output; early models do not.

Just out of curiosity, which projector are you using? Most can't output 1920x1080.

Mine outputs 1920x1080

Get the Mini Display Port to HDMI adapter. The newest MBP i7s have audio running through their ?minidisplay/HDMI output; early models do not.

Yes, MiniDisplay to HDMI adaptor. Works great. Audio out from headphone jack, to DJ.

50 feet away from the screen, where most of the audience sits, there was no difference to the eye!

Ok I haven't tested 50 feet away. I've tested 20-25 feet away by changing the output res. The difference is like night and day. The SD looks like a steaming pile of Dog@#+ compared to full HD. There's no question, one looks better than the other.

Help!!

The projector has VGA and RCA for audio.

What would you use?

I'd like to do Mini Display to VGA, but will audio go through it?

If not what audio cable would you use?

Help!!

The projector has VGA and RCA for audio.

What would you use?

I'd like to do Mini Display to VGA, but will audio go through it?

If not what audio cable would you use?

The only thing you can do is go VGA for video, and 1/8 to RCA for audio.
If you needed to go long distances, you might need a more complicated approach(Headphone--> 1/4-->DI box--> to XLR--> DI -->headphone--> RCA, or something like that) but its most likely not worth it and needed unless really long distances...