EX1R here. Question is, what would be the minimum size portable HD monitor that would pretty much eliminate focus problems? (Indoors: sports events, speakers, or conferences.)

Have a Hoodman Loupe but don't want to be glued to it. I recently shot a 4 day conference, 25+ hours of footage. Like all of you, I'm very picky about focus and there were a few times when I was really out to lunch — just for a few seconds mind you but with no b-camera there's no hiding it. *ouch!* I found that using the camera's LCD combined with peaking and a pair of low power 1.25x magnifying glasses really helped, but I need a proper HD monitor.

Any ideas as to what minimum size the HD monitor should be to prove useful? Thanks in advance for any input.

Keith

Keith I still use the 6inch LCD monitor I had with the Z1. It's fitted to the Tripod head via a Manfrotto arm. The key really is a) how bad is your eyesight and b) how far away from it are you working?

For me the key is to have the screen independent of the camera so that when the camera's high or low the screen can be tilted to me and when the camera comes off the tripod to go on the fig rig the screen stays where it is.

Thanks for the response Philip. I hadn't thought about how close to the monitor I'd be — that of course would make a world of difference! I like the idea of it being attached to the tripod like you suggest with the 6" monitor. Would prefer it to be close -- less than 60cm or about 20 inches.

I had thought about even using a regular consumer HDTV in the 24 - 32" size but of course it's not always easy to place it close enough to be useful and it would need a table or stand.

My close-up vision is fine (for a 48 y.o.) — recently had eye exam. I do like the magnifying 1.25x glasses - recommend them even to people with good vision. With this particular project the venue's light level was quite low and i had to go to 6dB just to get proper exposure. The low-contrast image doesn't make for easy focus. I'm editing it using a 50" plasma so it's very obvious when the focus is out even a bit.

I used to shoot entire hockey games (for news highlights) using just the small LCD on my old JVC DV5000 - focus was just never a problem! HD is a whole lot different.

The key isn't the size of the LCD, but the resolution. There will be a night and day difference between a 6" 640x480 LCD panel and a 6" 1920x1080 panel, both in cost and use ability. The EX1 LCD is remarkably good with 1920 Horizontal pixels, but it is very small. If the monitors resolution is lower than the cameras resolution then there is the possibility that you may never be able to see those last "sharps" that make the difference between spot on and just off.

I would say that as a minimum you need a full resolution 1280x720 monitor with a good peaking or focus assist system. 6" is the minimum size I would use, 10" is nice. Too big a monitor and you won't be able to work with it mounted on the camera and then you end up looking away to check focus, just as something happens and you miss the action.

Thanks for the reply Alister. I will look for one with a resolution of 1280x720 as you suggest. I like the idea of the monitor having built-in peaking/focus assist, will put that on my list (I don't think the EX1R has peaking/zebra output).

I'll do some research and report back.

Hey, I am also interested in anything you turn up. I have about had it with my EX-1 on-camera screen. My visual acuity is well below normal and I just can't focus on the fly. I have one of those sock magnifying glasses which is good in some situations, but takes fiddling with.
The choices I see are:

SmallHD DP6 5.6” HD Monitor > 1280x720 $1300 SDI

IKAN VX7 1024x600 $1000

Marshall ?

I'm also about to invest in an HD monitor for working with my PMW350 and 5D MK2. The front runner at the moment is the new TV Logic VFM 056W.

'Everything a Broadcast Display Should Be-TVLogic' (http://www.tvlogic.co.kr/Product/Product_10_01.asp)

It's 1280x800 at 5.6" so should be very sharp. It also has peaking and many other features which put it ahead I think of the other similar monitors available - at a premium price of course. There are two versions - the more expensive model having 3D-SGI, HDMI-SDI loop thorough, Waveform / vector scopes and a few other things. It's £800 for the cheaper of the two versions which still has both HDMI and SDI inputs I believe and around £1,050 for the fully featured one.

Anybody seen one of these yet? The other TV Logic monitors I've seen have been very nice...

It's fitted to the Tripod head via a Manfrotto arm.

What is the Manfrotto model number on this? I have been looking for one of these.

That TV Logic looks great. Just looked at a youtube video of it. Love that little transparent, resizable picture in picture waveform monitor. And magnesium! < half pound.
Thanks for the post. Anyone tried it?

It's probably cheaper to get this: YouTube - It Changed My Life: Mike Kershaw - Operation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ErkWK7esc&)

;-)

(It was something I shot last year)

Pretty good surgery video. Eeek! Unfortunately, my visual problems go deeper than the lenses. But that surgery will come my way one day and fix part of my issue. Til then, still looking for a monitor.

I usually think about 7" is a min good size for a monitor, but anything up to 8.5" is great and still practical to use. Some of the Panasonic ones are awesome, newish Sony OLED looks interesting, esp if using outdoors, and Marshall still seems to be well priced and used by a lot of others I see out and about working.
However, I have been hearing a lot of stories recently about Marshall failing and the being very difficult to get replaced on warranty? Anyone else had problems with new Marshall 7 or 8" hdsdi monitors?

I use Smallhd DP6-SDI with my PMW-350 and I find it the best in money/screen category.it has everything you need like peaking,focus assist and many other stuff that probably you will never use!!!
The BTLH1700W Panasonic would be the best, I have used it several times and it's just one of best monitors I have ever seen on field and it's about perfect...too bad it's too expensive.
Samer

You have to see an OLED monitor in the flesh to truly appreciate how much better they are. Blacks are black, no motion smear and very bright.

Alister,
Which smallish monitor(s) do you use or like best?

I just got a SmallHD DP6 with the SDI option and I love it, however I'm having a problem with the SDI out on my EX1 where I can only get it to display the image, but not image + indicators that appear on the EX1's LCD. See my other post here for details: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/492971-ex1-sdi-out-display-problem.html

Anyway back to the subject, I'm really glad I got an "HD" monitor for my EX, especially for set pieces or interviews, it really gives me a sense of confidence that the image I think I'm capturing, I'm actually capturing. However, it's still possible to be slightly out of focus with a smallish monitor like this one, but it has excellent false color focus assist functionality to give you that extra assurance. And not all "HD" monitors are equal in quality. I bought a 7" HD name brand monitor a couple of years ago and I returned it because to me the EX1's LCD was just as good, and it had to do with the 'scaling' circuitry of the monitor, which is always in effect unless you get a 1080P monitor, which is rare for a portable unit.

That being said, the peaking and depth of focus indicators on the EX1 are pretty darn good and you can trust them most of the time, and you don't have to have something hanging off your camcorder, negating the compactness of the unit.

These SmallHD units aren't cheap though, $1,300 for the SDI unit and about $1,500 when you get it tricked out but if you can afford it, it's very nice.

Thanks for the reply Keith, that SmallHD DP6 looks like a good choice. I agree about the camera's LCD, it's fine most of the time. The peaking display helps a lot. I also use a Hoodman Loupe with it which gives a lot of confidence for focus — especially when going handheld. The external monitor would mostly be for covering long events and for setting up shots/lighting when there's time.

Justin/Alister mentioned the Sony OLED. Have seen OLEDs/AMOLEDs on smartphones but not on a HD monitor. I did a quick look and found just 2 OLED field monitors.

Article from TV Technology (October 2009)
OLED Interest Slow, But Growing, by Jay Ankeney (http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/88280)

Tamuz Blackhawk 7.6", introduced at NAB 2009.
Made in Germany. Display is 800x480. Has HD-SDI, HDMI, Component. Displays 1080/720. Has 3/8" threads top and bottom and can be DC powered. Never heard of this company before, anyone use one of these?
http://www.tamuz.tv/datasheets/tamuz-ocm107w.pdf

From Sony, found the PVM-740 that was mentioned. It's 7.4" OLED, 960x540, 10-bit, SDI + HDMI, and everything you'd want. Also is way out of my price range! Sony Product Detail Page PVM740 (http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-PVM740/)

Are there other OLED field monitors out there or is that it? (Interesting to look at these but my budget says LCD at the moment)

It has been a few months, and I am revisiting this thread. I am still thinking about adding a better monitor to my EX-1. I have the sock loop, but it sags and is somewhat unwieldy in a run and gun situation.
Good comments on the Small HD monitor above, are you still happy with it?
Is the only way to mount one of these monitors on accessory shoe? it seems like it could be better mounted from the bottom of the camera before the tripod making it less top heavy.
Did anyone check out the and have an opinion on small monitors at NAB?
Any comments at all?
seems like the choices are:
Possible monitors
• SmallHD DP6 5.6” HD Monitor 14 oz, $1300 SDI, arm and hood avail.
• IKAN VX7 1024x600 $1000
• TV Logic VFM 056WP http://www.tvlogic.co.kr/Product/Product_10_01.asp
• Marshall V-LCD70XP-3GSDI 7" LCD Field Monitor
• Sony OLED PVM740 5+ lbs $3500

Attachment:
• Noga DG14CA-SA Cinematic Arm with Hot Shoe
• Manfrotto arm from tripod head (part # ??)

I use the Marshall Electronics V-LCD70XP-HDMI 7" LCD V-LCD70XP-HDMI (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=675213&is=REG) with my EX1R as well as my Panasonic GH2 and find that I am able to do a much better job of consistently controlling focus. I see that you are in the Bay Area. You are welcome to attend our meetings at the Bay Area Professional Videographers Association. I shoot the meetings and post them on Vimeo. If you are able to attend a meeting, you can take a first hand look at my Marshall monitor in use and see what you think. More info here. Bay Area Professional Videographers Association (BAPVA): Welcome (http://bapva.com/)

I was using the SmallHD DP1 up to about 2 months ago. Switched to the TVLogic 056WP and love it. I also looked at the SmallHD DP6 but found the TVLogic's features to be a real help in nailing exposure and color. The Colors are bit more accurate on the TVLogic too (IMO). I use peaking to aid in focusing so the smaller size (5.6" vs 8.9") between the 056WP and DP1 doesn't make that much of a difference.

I looked at all the ones Chip mentioned and the only ones that made my shortlist were the TVLogic and SmallHD. The Ikan and Marshall just were not up to the same level in color accuracy or resolution. I was looking for something that would be like a small version of a Panasonic production monitor.

The Sony sounded great on paper but I have never been able to see that specific monitor. I did get to see an earlier version (beta level) Sony OLED monitor and it did look great. Blew everything I've seen up to that point away but at this point they are just too expensive for my limited budgets.

-Garrett

It has been a few months, and I am revisiting this thread. I am still thinking about adding a better monitor to my EX-1. I have the sock loop, but it sags and is somewhat unwieldy in a run and gun situation.
Good comments on the Small HD monitor above, are you still happy with it?
Is the only way to mount one of these monitors on accessory shoe? it seems like it could be better mounted from the bottom of the camera before the tripod making it less top heavy.


Hi Chip, nice to hear from you again, I think we've met a few times. Anyway, this Small HD DP6 is one of the best investments I've made, I've used it over and over in all kinds of situations. I think for 'run and gun' it may be just a bit too large, but for set interviews, car mounts, Steadicam, anywhere where you just need extra confidence it's great. It's totally built like a tank, and you can also get a SmallHD acrylic cover for cheap that protects it even more. One of the really great things I've found is they are very frequently improving it with firmware updates which are really easy to install, bigger manufacturers could learn a thing or 2 about updates from this upstart company.

While it can be easily mounted on a shoe, I don't know if that's always the best solution unless you're static. While it's pretty light, there is still some mass to it, and those little hot shoes are not that strong, The arm they sell is also, in my opinion, nice but I haven't used it much for this reason.

I think mounting it lower is a good idea, there are a lot of mounts that add hot shoe or 1/4-20 threaded capabilities at the base of the camcorder. Good luck.

I'll be interested to see how well this new Sony compares. The price seems right:

Sony LPM770BP Active Matrix Portable LCD Monitor LPM-770BP B&H

Chip,
I'm going to make a strong recommendation for the Marshall LCD70XP (you decide HDMI or SDI). I went with the SDI for the high reliability of the connection and loop through. The Marshall unit also has composite and component inputs on the SDI model. YMMV.

Below is a link to a thread where I posted a photo of how I mounted it to the tripod instead of the camera:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/view-video-display-hardware-software/483657-what-advantages-sdi-field-monitor-over-hdmi.html#post1567414

That's a super clamp and a $70 iKan 6" Israeli arm.
Ikan MA206 6" Articulating Arm MA206 B&H Photo Video (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=WishList.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=648153&is=REG)

When you use a monitor, you will appreciate some of the smaller details of the Marshall. For me, I like the right angle XLR power supply connector. The connector can be flipped so the cord goes up or down. I also appreciate the SDI model for it's use of BNC connectors that lock tight. Combined with the right angle swivel connectors shown in my rig (at the EX1 end as well), the cable stress is drastically reduced as the cable does not have to fight gravity in it's journey between camera and monitor.

Another nice aspect of the Marshall is that for about $30, you can add mount points on the other 3 edges. I've since done this and now the monitor attaches to the IKAN arm on the side instead of the bottom as shown. The build quality of the case and switches gives me confidence the unit will survive well.

Another nice touch is that in addition to the On/Off switch, there's a 3-position power rocker switch on the side to choose between battery, power supply and off. That's off off....no power drain.

The peaking, false colors, freeze frame, and 1:1 features of the Marshall have revolutionized how I do focus and exposure.

I'm not saying the others don't sport any of these features but if you tunnel vision on the marketing specs, you might miss them and not appreciate them until you've already taken the plunge. Also,take a gander through DVInfo. I think you'll find the Marshall a favorite of many here.

Lastly, if you care about supporting your local economy, the Marshall monitors are designed and manufactured right there in California.

It's a tough decision as everyone's needs are different.

I settled with a daylight viewable Marshall, the V-LCD651STX with the Anton Bauer battery plate. I really like the economy of the menus of the Marshall but I wish it, like the TVLogic, had scopes. Daylight viewability won out for me.

I saw most of the monitors mentioned at NAB. Gotta say the TVLogic monitors in the 6.5 to 7" category are incredible bang for the buck. The one you mentioned has scopes. It has tons of features but the menus are labyrinthine. I started out using a NOGA style arm but went to a NEBTEK mount that goes into the coldshoe mount. Once the Nebtek one is clamped it does not move.

nanoFlash.net - Olof Ekbergh has*created a superb mount for the new Panasonic AF100. Now in stock and shipping!**AG-AF100 NanoFlash Bracket $149.95* ORDER****************Really Great mounting solution designed for Sony's EX1, EX1r (http://www.nanoflash.net/mounting_options) (scroll down)

I used a sock loupe on my Z1 and I feel your pain with the sagging and so on. You might want to consider another cheap but tried and tested solution from Hoodman...

EX KIT PRO-Hoodman Corporation (http://www.hoodmanusa.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HEXKP)

Andrew, can you please provide a part number for the NEBTEK cold shoe mount your referring to. Thanks!

Can't find the part on the Nebtek site anymore. Anyway Barry...there is a link in my previous post to the nanoflash.net site. Scroll down about half way down the page and click ORDER. The part is 40 bucks.

I used nanoflash.net when I bought my nF recorder. Excellent outfit. I would try to get them to ship USPS to Canada if they will do it. It will be a lot cheaper than FedEx obviously and I avoid UPS at almost all cost when shipping from the US to Canada.

I've seen similar parts on eBay but this unit is VERY well made and I wouldn't want to get a knock off of it. You want this one.

EDIT:

Found it on the Nebtek site...

http://www.nebtek.com/proddetail.php?prod=HBM

Thanks for the link and info Andrew, Regards!

I recently saw these LCD monitor advertised....

LCD Video Monitors - LCD Monitors - LCD4Video (http://www.lcd4video.com/categories/LCD-Video-Monitors/LCD-Monitors/)

Anyone had experience with them? They seem very reasonably priced

Thanks

Ronnie

Haven't specifically had experience with this monitor. Does seem like very good value. However, at that price point you know the LCD panel used may have very good representational color directly on axis, in front of the screen, but off axis it will not.

If you are primarily looking for a focusing monitor it would give you incredible bang for the buck having HD-SDI ports which generally alone are a $300 to $400 option on brand name monitors.

I have bought stuff from this outfit before and have been pleased with the goods.

You noted, I trust, the pixel aspect ratio is 800 x 400.

In my part of the world the TVLogic 5.6 seems to have won this battle. Pretty good color and good red peaking function make it useable to check focus, but you still have to be careful - at least with an F3. EX-1 should be easier.

I settled with a daylight viewable Marshall, the V-LCD651STX with the Anton Bauer battery plate. I really like the economy of the menus of the Marshall but I wish it, like the TVLogic, had scopes. Daylight viewability won out for me.

And that's precisely what I'm after - daylight viewability above all else. Does this mean I wait for the affordable OLED or AMOLED? Are there no LED screens out there? Is LCD not up to it? My NX5 is near useless in daylight even with the brightness hugely bumped and the Hoodman type shield only works when the sun's off axis and the hood can actually shadow the screen.

tom.

Tom,

I'm sure you can remember the Sony hybrid LCD screens as used on the FX1/Z1 and some of the other early HDV cameras. They could be viewed in full sunlight. Why did Sony abandon them?

Steve

Steve, I want to copy your post in one foot high bold upper case and have it printed on banners that I can fly past Sony HQ. I've 'upgraded' from a Z1 screen that I could view in direct sunlight to a smaller, horribly touch-screen coated 'improvement' on the NX5. Did no-one take the current Z1 and the NX5 prototype out into the Sony car park and say, 'Whoa, hold on a minute here guys!'?

I don't give a fig for hi-res. In a run 'n' gun situation I just want to see what my lens is framing. Is that too much to ask? Even diddly Panasonic palmcorders have better screens - I know, I've had them side-by-side.

tom.

It's not just the NX5, Tom. I'm shooting recently on a Z7 and the screen is terrible compared to my Z1. I can never tell when anything's in focus. Hate it.

Sony really dropped the ball on the screen for these cameras.

Seems to me that the EX screens have the same daylight reflective feature that the Z1 had, though I never had any luck with the Z1 in judging exposure or focus with the reflective screen while bright sunlight was hitting it. It was really just for composition. The few times I tried to use it for exposure I think I got fooled badly. When shooting on the beach I need to go with an EX3 viewfinder - or now presumably the FS100 (though haven't shot with it in bright sun, so I'm just guessing.)

Dave, the Z1's screen is much better for composition than the EX1's in bright sunlight. It's nowhere near as sharp mind you, and this might account for it's far better visibility. Here's two pictures taken for a recent video article showing the strange 'multi-coating' colours that disrupt the image. Same with the NX5 and Z7 by the way.

Hi Tom,
Thanks for the pix! Funny, having gone from Z1 to V1 to EX1, I never did a side-by side of the screens like that. I suppose they're always tweaking something from one model to the next, and I never really noticed the differences that way before.
Best,
Dave S

It's not just the FX1 and Z1 that have the hybrid screen, my HC3 has one as well, and it has a touch screen, so that feature does not prevent viewing in sunlight either. What's the excuse for the NX5?

Steve

I may be a little late to this thread, but recently picked up the TVLogic 5.6" with the WFM. I went around a major trade show back in March and this monitor blew the rest away in terms of colour accuracy, image quality and features. The Waveform Monitor is impressive.

I'm new to the EX3 and impressed with the magnified viewfinder (after using an XF305), but the zoomed in view is not great + only one button for magnify as standard, so adding the external monitor has made a difference.

I use the TVL by choice in 'Pixel to Pixel' mode in greyscale, giving a very accurate way to focus on the middle area (or any other) of the screen and then use the camera LCD for composition.

The only weakness of the TVL is that the 'Focus assist' peaking is not great and the HDMI / SDI pass-through is currently only for 59.94. Hmm not helpful in PAL country.

Hello, i am using a SONY PVM740 7.4" OLED Monitor. Absolutely breathless, and you have full control of the peaking. Being exactly half resolution of fullHD (so it is 960 x 540) there are no scaling artifacts and the picture is far superior than a 1280x720 or similar...

Max, please comment on how the Sony OLED holds up in bright day light? That would be helpful. Thanks.

Hi there,

I'd like to ask about one feature that I'd like to have, but haven't seen mentioned on this thread.
(I'm considering either the SmallHD or the TVLogic, by the way)

I use two cameras (my EX-1 and a Canon XF100 when shooting conferences) and would like to be able to check the shots for both cameras, from where I'm standing (sometimes sitting) with my EX-1.
Would both of these displays allow me to do this? So I'd just have to click a switch and I'd see what my Canon is shooting? (maybe even do this via a remote, so there's no chance of jiggling the camera).

Also... I'm wanting one of these things mostly for double-checking focus. Both of them have focus-assist. But would anyone on this forum who's tried both displays care to comment on which works better in this respect?
Thanks,
Malcolm

I have the SmallHD DP6 SDI edition, it has HDMI, and Component inputs as well. I often have 2-3 cameras connected through the different interfaces. EX1 has SDI and Component, XF100 has I believe, HDMI output as well, so you could switch. You need to go to the input menu and select the input you want, it takes a couple of seconds if you are familiar with it.

By the way, I just saw on the SmallHD site, that it's only the more expensive version that uses SDI.
The cheaper one has HDMI, Component and Composite Inputs and... I don't know what Output(s); it only mentions HDSDI (Loop Through), but that's only for the more expensive DP6-SDI.

I'm on the TVLogic site right now, and it seems to me that the less expensive TVLogic monitor (the VFM-056W) has a BNC SDI input (and an HDMI input) and a BNC SDI (loop-through) output (along with Component, Composite and S-Video).

I don't know how or if any of this affects my question (about being able to monitor two cameras via this one monitor).

regards, Malcolm

The DP6 only has an output for SDI (loop through) They offer an inexpensive self-powered HDMI splitter if you need to do something else with the HDMI signal, such as record or display off of it.

Keith, thank you for this. I just checked and you're right, the Canon XF100 just has HDMI.
Given this, would I need to get the more expensive SmallHD, so that I could use the SDI input for the EX-1 and the HDMI input for the Canon?
(and would the cheaper TVLogic accommodate both cameras?)
thanks,
Malcolm

Hi Malcolm

If you don't mind using component cable set, the EX has component out, so you could use the HDMI from the Canon and component from the EX and not have to get the SDI version which is more expensive. I don't know about the TVlogic, I don't have that monitor, though I know they are a super brand.

-Keith

O.K. Keith. I'll read up on the specs of the TVLogic and try to figure that out. I'll also weigh in my mind the down side of a Component connection. One downside, perhaps, is that it's a bit more fiddly?
Anyway, thanks again for your advice,
Malcolm

The downside of the component inputs for me is that there are 3 wires to connect, and that the cable set is more bulky. Also it's more difficult to 'extend' beyond the 2-3ft cables that come with the camera, and if you do extend them you have to get RCA couplers and another set of 3 RCA cables. However if you don't mind that, it's an option, and quality wise it's virtually the same as the HDMI connection.

I've just emailed support at TVLogic to ask if (as it seems to me from their website) the cheaper version of their 5.6" monitor has SDI input.
Thanks for your help,
Malcolm