It seems that many people do not know how to correctly mount a tie microphone and run into lots of problems because of this.

The first important point is that you have to decouple the microphone from the cable to prevent any cable noise getting to the microphone itself.

The way to do this is to make a small loop and trap this by the teeth of the tie clip - if the mic. is pointing up, loop the cable up and then down again behind the clothing and trap the cable in the jaws of the crocodile clip (some clips, like the one supplied with the Sennheiser MKE 2, have a special cable slot on the end of the jaws to do this so the cable is not bitten by the teeth). This means that the cable beyond this point is totally decoupled from the mic. itself and any clothing or rubbing noises are not transmitted up the cable to the microphone.

The attached picture shows this - I clipped an MKE 2 to a frosty plastic sheet so you can see the cable both front and back.

If the mic. is pointing down, it's a single loop rather than a doublke loop - but the effect is the same.

This even stops the noises from the steel cable of the MKE 2.

Also - you could tie a loose knot in the cable. Surprisingly this also helps reduce cable noise.

If a tie mic. has to be hidden, the best way is to use Rycote Undercovers (http://www.rycote.com/products/personal_mic_solutions/undercovers/) or Overcovers (http://www.rycote.com/products/personal_mic_solutions/overcovers/). If you use these, I would use two - the first to hold the microphone and a second a little way down the cable to decouple the cable. This does the same job as I described above - any cable beyond the second Undercover/Overcover is effectively isolated from the microphone itself. But make sure the cable between the first and second Stickie is not too tight.

I hope this helps.

Excellent advice, John, and very succinctly given.

May I be so bold as to ask you to give your advice for positioning the transmitter/bodypack as this also causes difficulty for many people when using wireless lavs at first?

Good advice John and good to know I have been doing it right for the past 30 years, now who wants to see the pictures of how to clip one onto a ladies bra ;0)

Well Gary, as you know, I like to keep abreast of all the best practice...

Here is some more info on how to mount Lav. mics in various situations.
Location Sound Corp. -- Tech Tips (http://www.locationsound.com/proaudio/ls/tips/techtips8_4.html)

Excellent advice, John, and very succinctly given.

May I be so bold as to ask you to give your advice for positioning the transmitter/bodypack as this also causes difficulty for many people when using wireless lavs at first?

The important thing about body-worn transmitters is to keep the antenna off the body.

If the antenna touches the body you can attenuate the signal by as much as about 70dB - however, getting the antenna off the body by as little as 1cm gets back most of this loss.

Sometimes turning the transmitter upside down (eg: unclip the wire clip of a G2 or G3 transmitter and put it on the other way up) so that the antenna goes downwards often helps.

Also, be careful of clothing - especially with women - as metallic threads or wired bras can adversely affect transmission.

The transmitter needs to be put where it is most comfortable and unobtrusive with as much air round the antenna as is practical.

I hope this helps.

You on occasions may see a lav mic "upside down" on a news reader or presenter, this is done to eliminate the wind noise of downward breathing through the nose. Being an Omni mic it works well.

John,

Just want to say that is an excellent photo, so much better than I have seen on any manufacturer's website. Thanks for taking the time and effort to post that!

You on occasions may see a lav mic "upside down" on a news reader or presenter, this is done to eliminate the wind noise of downward breathing through the nose. Being an Omni mic it works well.

Yes - a tie mic. is so small it is omni at all audible frequencies and this works very well.



John,

Just want to say that is an excellent photo, so much better than I have seen on any manufacturer's website. Thanks for taking the time and effort to post that!

Thanks - I'm actually surprised that manufacturers never seem to give proper info. about how to put on a tie mic.

John,

Thanks for this terrific info. Really appreciate this and it will get printed in put in my education file.

Jonathan

Yes John....Thanks!

this place has a wealth of information thanks guys

INstead of those Rycote stickies, I get moleskin at the drug store and cut it into strips. It holds well, helps prevent clothing noise, and actors love it because it doesn't hurt their skin. I had one actor tell me about a sound guy who used gaffer tape to stick on his lav...That's just kind of mean! Down side with the moleskin was the time I had to lav an actor who liked to use ALOT of lotion on his chest for some reason. Moleskin didn't stick so good on that mess! I took to carrying those little alcohol wipes to clean the lotion off before I taped the lav on.

Great information. I just tried this out listening to an ME2 Lav on my shirt, through headphones while tugging on the wires, in three different wire routings:

1, Wire through the wide part of the clip then clipped in the jaws as the original post suggests.
2. Wire through the wide part of the clip but not clipped in the jaws, as you often see.
3. Wire not through any part of the clip.

I found 1 and 3 to be quite similar in wire tug noise levels, with #1 being slightly quieter. So I will follow the OP's advice when lots of movement is to be expected. But I do have two concerns with it:

- It's not easy to see the backside of someone's shirt (on female blouses where modesty is important for instance) so this is a bit more fumbly.
- With smaller clips and/or stiffer cables, the cable loop between the alligator clip and the wide part of the clip will tend to loop out and away, making for a less than tidy appearance.

So I think I'll go with #3 in some situations. This post was definitely useful because it made me realize that #2 sounds the worst (probably because sliding friction of the cable against the clip is transmitted through the clip to the mic) yet that is what I was doing most of the time in the past.

As long as I was experimenting I decided to test out how much adding loops helps with cable noise. To my big surprise it didn't help at all. I made a loop about 1.5" diameter by simply tying a loose knot, and that actually increased cable noise as I tugged! I think with each tug the parts of the cable next to each other were sliding against each other as the knot got smaller and smaller, transmitting the sliding noise up or into the cable.

A loop about 1.5" secured with gaffer tape rather than a knot sounded the same as no knot at all. I suppose though that in real life situations a loosely tied or loosely taped loop might help to relieve tautness that didn't exist in my test. This might be useful in extended wear situations, so that you only get noise once as the loop gets smaller, rather than tautness increasing noise more of the time.

By far the best solution was to tape the cable to my skin so that the tugs were resisted and dampened by the skin. That improved the sound much more than any of the wire routings involving clips or loops.

...- It's not easy to see the backside of someone's shirt (on female blouses where modesty is important for instance) so this is a bit more fumbly.
- With smaller clips and/or stiffer cables, the cable loop between the alligator clip and the wide part of the clip will tend to loop out and away, making for a less than tidy appearance.
....

Unless you're putting the lav right in her cleavage (a common location, BTW) modesty shouldn't be much of an issue when putting a lav on the button seam in the usual spot. You don't need to reach THAT far under the shirt.

Professional talent is used to costume changes in crowded coed dressing rooms, getting mic'ed up, etc, and if one is respectful it may often be less of an issue than it might be with "civilians." If need be you can possibly arrange for someone from the wardrobe department to help out with the mic'ing.

If the portion of the cable between the alligator jaws and the wide part of the clip is going "out and away," you're making the loop too big.

INstead of those Rycote stickies, I get moleskin at the drug store and cut it into strips. It holds well, helps prevent clothing noise, and actors love it because it doesn't hurt their skin. I had one actor tell me about a sound guy who used gaffer tape to stick on his lav...That's just kind of mean! Down side with the moleskin was the time I had to lav an actor who liked to use ALOT of lotion on his chest for some reason. Moleskin didn't stick so good on that mess! I took to carrying those little alcohol wipes to clean the lotion off before I taped the lav on.


The Rycote stickes are hypo-allergenic and are very skin friendly (they were well tested) - also, they are pre-cut to size and are very quick to use.

I came across this video from Countryman on how to route the wires through their B2D lav clip:

YouTube - ‪Using the Isolation Clip‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogb3pv9vBBo&feature=player_embedded)

They adocate the original poster's approach. Someone has got to make a lav clip that has a dedicated groove or slot for routing the wire around the back, without needing to clip it with the clothes.

I


If the mic. is pointing down, it's a single loop rather than a doublke loop - but the effect is the same.



I hope this helps.

I notice that the newscasters on the BBC all have their mikes pointing down, I have never worked out why, is there a reasons or advantage for doing it this way?

I notice that the newscasters on the BBC all have their mikes pointing down, I have never worked out why, is there a reasons or advantage for doing it this way?

See answer #7 in this thread.

Thanks Greg, I missed that one.

However, the answer does seem far fetched, unless the presenter is a cross between an Anteater and an Elephant.

"You on occasions may see a lav mic "upside down" on a news reader or presenter, this is done to eliminate the wind noise of downward breathing through the nose. Being an Omni mic it works well"

:-)

Try holding your fingers against your tie, where a mic would be located. Exhale sharply. Tilt your head down slightly, as if you were looking down at some copy located on the desk in front of you.

Then consider that a mic is much more sensitive than your fingers.

Better safe than sorry.

Just tried that, maybe my nose is not that big. In order to create any downwind I would have to look at my toes, then the camera would be looking at the top of the talents head.

Maybe I will just have to try recording with the mike in both positions and let you know or even hear the results.

maybe my nose is not that big
Size matters.

I also feel a little air movement if I produce a particularly powerful plosive. I wouldn't be surprised if this differs from person to person.

Downward-facing might also protect against coffee spills. ;)

All these tips are brilliant, i'm thinking of using a couple tie mics for a small upcoming interview, but i'm a complete rookie, what would be the best way of recording multiple tie mics? The only idea i have in mind is hooking each interviewee up and somehow collaborate and recorde them all and syncing them in post. But i'm still lost as to how i'd do that.

First, use hardwired connections if possible. Wireless can never sound better than a proper wired connection, and might introduce a lot of problems.

Second, if possible use a recorder with a separate track for each person. That's easy with two people (a stereo recorder) but a lot more cumbersome with a dozen at once. By using a separate recorder, the audio tracks will stay locked to one another, so editing will be a lot easier.

Third, pay attention to acoustics of the room; be sure it's quiet to begin with, and if there's too much reverberation of echo, use carpet, moving blankets, or a combination of tricks to make the room sufficiently "dead." Once you have reverberation in your track(s) it's nearly impossible to remove.

Fourth, pay attention to recording levels. When setting levels, get each person to speak as loudly as he is likely to speak during the interview (not the average expected level, the loudest level). Set the gain so that sound level produces a recording level that's -6dB FS, or lower. Then monitor levels while recording, and if they start to creep up, turn down the gain. You want to be sure your recorded level NEVER reaches 0dB FS. (You can make relative level adjustments in post, but if your level goes too high and you end up with digital clipping, that part of your track is effectively useless.)

There are many variations on the procedure to sync up, depending on what particular equipment you use throughout the process. I'll let someone else tackle that aspect...